Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

46 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

The hard liners in real life Israel were set to fade into history over the next 15-20 years. 

 

There was / is an indignant view of Palestinians in the West Bank. Because there are terrorists? 

 

Its not ok for Settlers to bash or harass residents. That there are settlers? Exposes the view and abuse on a wider scale. Which is apathy, or acceptance of even those with a less extreme behaviour.  It still enables, emboldens the idiots. How can the IDF provide security for RW Marches through Palestinian East Jerusalem?  I remain of the view that warlords, in the guise / disguise of Islamic Terrorists are the bigger problem.  Israel, as the 1st world & richer nation, one with a court & 'moral' system has to take a leadership role & wipe out violence on their part.

 

Warlord, that defines what Sinwar is! He quoted in court that he strangled with his own hands those who sympathized, or would not take up his cause against Israel.  Obedience is first coerced as a religious obligation. Enforced with payola, violence, societal expectation. The depth & breadth of corruption and control is so much wider, more sinister in scale. A Jew, or Arab for that matter, in Israel can be apathetic. Ignore because they have a good life? Such is not the luxury on the other side.  

[Optimist Prime]

I don't see Israel giving up any land as a reality for the future. There have been at least 16 warlike engagements from the people who call themselves Palestinians since Israel was founded. In almost every instance Israel took or kept occupied land at the end of the warlike engagements. Heck I don't even see them giving back northern Gaza as a likely outcome, they might create a bigger buffer zone to protect their larger cities better. I think it is the fallacy of the the "give back my great grandfathers land" argument that is the biggest recruiter tool for terrorists. It might be a future outcome that settlers are evicted from wherever they may be at right now, but historical evidence says this won't happen or is unlikely to happen. I think Israel looks at it as though it is reparations for the warlike engagements (not all have been de facto wars) that for instance, the people of Gaza have started and their forbearers have taken part in for the last 75 years. 

If a two state solution is worked out in the future, I think it would involve almost exactly the current rough borders for the west bank and who knows if any or part of Gaza may be involved. 

 

As far as 'give it back or we will keep killing you' goes, the notion from Hamas, that is just exactly the reason Israel must extinguish Hamas.

[Sabrefan1]

19 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

There was / is an indignant view of Palestinians in the West Bank. Because there are terrorists? 

 

Its not ok for Settlers to bash or harass residents. That there are settlers? Exposes the view and abuse on a wider scale. Which is apathy, or acceptance of even those with a less extreme behaviour.  It still enables, emboldens the idiots. How can the IDF provide security for RW Marches through Palestinian East Jerusalem?  I remain of the view that warlords, in the guise / disguise of Islamic Terrorists are the bigger problem.  Israel, as the 1st world & richer nation, one with a court & 'moral' system has to take a leadership role & wipe out violence on their part.

 

Warlord, that defines what Sinwar is! He quoted in court that he strangled with his own hands those who sympathized, or would not take up his cause against Israel.  Obedience is first coerced as a religious obligation. Enforced with payola, violence, societal expectation. The depth & breadth of corruption and control is so much wider, more sinister in scale. A Jew, or Arab for that matter, in Israel can be apathetic. Ignore because they have a good life? Such is not the luxury on the other side.  

 

Like I said in my post, Oct. 7 is Israel's 9/11.  Just like the US did after 9/11, they will attack those responsible for the bloodshed of Oct. 7.  I understand their position.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Like I said in my post, Oct. 7 is Israel's 9/11.  Just like the US did after 9/11, they will attack those responsible for the bloodshed of Oct. 7.  I understand their position.

I understand your comparison, but (IMHAO) October 7 had a personal level that exceeds 9/11. Hamas fid things to people on October 7 that are unthinkably mean. They are evil people and must be totally culled from our world. We cannot have that kind of person. Yes, 9/11 was awful. But October 7 was very personal and showed the lack of empathy Hamas has for anyone who doesn’t think (sickly) like they do. 
HAMAS MUST BE COMPLETELY ELIMINATED for the good project of Faza to be free.,

[Sabrefan1]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I understand your comparison, but (IMHAO) October 7 had a personal level that exceeds 9/11. Hamas fid things to people on October 7 that are unthinkably mean. They are evil people and must be totally culled from our world. We cannot have that kind of person. Yes, 9/11 was awful. But October 7 was very personal and showed the lack of empathy Hamas has for anyone who doesn’t think (sickly) like they do. 
HAMAS MUST BE COMPLETELY ELIMINATED for the good project of Faza to be free.,

 

I also add to the equation that over 1k dead to Israel is a higher percentage of the population than over 3k for the US.

[RomanPer]

46 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

There was / is an indignant view of Palestinians in the West Bank. Because there are terrorists? 

 

Its not ok for Settlers to bash or harass residents. That there are settlers? Exposes the view and abuse on a wider scale. Which is apathy, or acceptance of even those with a less extreme behaviour.  It still enables, emboldens the idiots. How can the IDF provide security for RW Marches through Palestinian East Jerusalem?  I remain of the view that warlords, in the guise / disguise of Islamic Terrorists are the bigger problem.  Israel, as the 1st world & richer nation, one with a court & 'moral' system has to take a leadership role & wipe out violence on their part.

 

Warlord, that defines what Sinwar is! He quoted in court that he strangled with his own hands those who sympathized, or would not take up his cause against Israel.  Obedience is first coerced as a religious obligation. Enforced with payola, violence, societal expectation. The depth & breadth of corruption and control is so much wider, more sinister in scale. A Jew, or Arab for that matter, in Israel can be apathetic. Ignore because they have a good life? Such is not the luxury on the other side.  

 

Let's listen to the actual settlers:

 

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

Bomb the crap out of a densely populated area.  Bomb refugee "camps".  You'd expect a modern military to at least try and be accurate and precise with the bombing.

 

Nope, who cares.  Just use ole unguided "dumb" bombs.

 

 

Tell us again that some of us are being unreasonable criticizing the IDF.

 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/13/politics/intelligence-assessment-dumb-bombs-israel-gaza/index.html

 

Exclusive: Nearly half of the Israeli munitions dropped on Gaza are imprecise ‘dumb bombs,’ US intelligence assessment finds

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Let's listen to the actual settlers:

 

 

 

Those are of course loaded questions.  

 

1st question; How dyu justify Jews killing Palestinian children?  Answer they don't.  

 

I have replied before suggesting rubber bullets versus real ones for those throwing stones at protests. I saw one of your replies noting a soldier died after being hit by a rock? Its not comparable. Between, Marches, Parades by Israeli Settlers, RW Groups, Mobs on the Palestinian side more commonly protests?  Civilian death is common. Large portions are 15 & 17 year old teenagers. We could split hairs as to that being children? They are not adults. Farmers are being moved off homesteads to build settler developments.  All well documented.  A portion, only a percentage justified as police action.  Israel has to take the lead on behaviour IMO. 

 

The number of Palestinians killed in the West Bank and Israel by Israeli forces so far in 2023 (172) has surpassed the total number killed in all of 2022 (155), which already saw the highest fatalities in the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, since 2005.28 Aug 2023

[Super19]

 

 

[Super19]

 

[RomanPer]

[Optimist Prime]

Oh, a hospital, you don't say!

 

Quote

3 hours ago - 31°32′N 34°30′E

The Israeli army reveals footage showing Palestinian gunmen surrendering to Israeli army troops at the Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza

[Taxi]

7 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

Posting headlines like this really discredits you. There has been immense amount of suffering in Gaza. You don't need to parrot made up headlines. If this happened it would be all over the major networks. You wouldn't need to link to some random guy on Twitter.

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

Posting headlines like this really discredits you. There has been immense amount of suffering in Gaza. You don't need to parrot made up headlines. If this happened it would be all over the major networks. You wouldn't need to link to some random guy on Twitter.

It should be all over major news networks. But remember, these are the same networks that were quick and loud to shock us with the lies of 40 babies with no evidence. Remember when Biden and that IDF official said they SAW it and it ended up being that they were just misinformed or had translation problems *cough cough, they just simply blatantly lied*. This is all a double standard.

 

Al Jazeera reported this story. Willing independent journalists are barred from entering Gaza to document what's going on... I wonder why...

 

The IDF are entering these schools-makeshift refugee camps. They round up the men, strip em of their clothes, give them the gun for a photo op, place them in dug up holes, and detain them in unknown locations. After the IDF left the area, is when the eyewitnesses came back and saw these men women and children killed execution style. Who killed them?

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It should be all over major news networks. But remember, these are the same networks that were quick and loud to shock us with the lies of 40 babies with no evidence. Remember when Biden and that IDF official said they SAW it and it ended up being that they were just misinformed or had translation problems *cough cough, they just simply blatantly lied*. This is all a double standard.

 

Al Jazeera reported this story. Willing independent journalists are barred from entering Gaza to document what's going on... I wonder why...

 

The IDF are entering these schools-makeshift refugee camps. They round up the men, strip em of their clothes, give them the gun for a photo op, place them in dug up holes, and detain them in unknown locations. After the IDF left the area, is when the eyewitnesses came back and saw these men women and children killed execution style. Who killed them?

 

Can you post where on the al Jazeera site this story appears ?

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Can you post where on the al Jazeera site this story appears ?

Yes:

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/program/newsfeed/2023/12/13/civilians-sheltering-inside-a-gaza-school-killed-execution

 

 

[Super19]

Israeli forces just shot and killed an unarmed teenager boy in a hospital. In the West Bank:

 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Taxi said:

Posting headlines like this really discredits you. There has been immense amount of suffering in Gaza. You don't need to parrot made up headlines. If this happened it would be all over the major networks. You wouldn't need to link to some random guy on Twitter.

 

“Discredits” him? I think he’s doing this job quite well himself for the last month or so.

[Taxi]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

It should be all over major news networks. But remember, these are the same networks that were quick and loud to shock us with the lies of 40 babies with no evidence. Remember when Biden and that IDF official said they SAW it and it ended up being that they were just misinformed or had translation problems *cough cough, they just simply blatantly lied*. This is all a double standard.

 

Al Jazeera reported this story. Willing independent journalists are barred from entering Gaza to document what's going on... I wonder why...

 

The IDF are entering these schools-makeshift refugee camps. They round up the men, strip em of their clothes, give them the gun for a photo op, place them in dug up holes, and detain them in unknown locations. After the IDF left the area, is when the eyewitnesses came back and saw these men women and children killed execution style. Who killed them?

 

Give it a rest. The 40 babies thing isn't all that extreme in the context of thousands of soldiers raping women and burning babies alive. It was a miscommunication that was corrected. The idea that Israel controls the media is outright offensive. 

 

Yes, you strip people down before processing them for an arrest. That's an especially urgent need when fighting a group of people that regularly straps themselves with suicide bombings. 

 

Once again, there is an extreme amount of misery and tragedy going on in the Gaza Strip. Why focus on these non-factual allegations?

[King Heffy]

8 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Give it a rest. The 40 babies thing isn't all that extreme in the context of thousands of soldiers raping women and burning babies alive. It was a miscommunication that was corrected. The idea that Israel controls the media is outright offensive. 

 

Yes, you strip people down before processing them for an arrest. That's an especially urgent need when fighting a group of people that regularly straps themselves with suicide bombings. 

 

Once again, there is an extreme amount of misery and tragedy going on in the Gaza Strip. Why focus on these non-factual allegations?

Because then he'd have to come to terms with the fact that most of that suffering is inflicted by Hamas on the Palestinians.

[Super19]

46 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Give it a rest. The 40 babies thing isn't all that extreme in the context of thousands of soldiers raping women and burning babies alive. It was a miscommunication that was corrected. The idea that Israel controls the media is outright offensive. 

 

Yes, you strip people down before processing them for an arrest. That's an especially urgent need when fighting a group of people that regularly straps themselves with suicide bombings. 

 

Once again, there is an extreme amount of misery and tragedy going on in the Gaza Strip. Why focus on these non-factual allegations?

Can you link me to a source regarding the burned babies? I thought even these claims were retracted yet you say it's still true?

 

And you believe Israeli testimonies but not Palestenians? Former is factual and the latter isn't? Doesn't sound fair to me. Why don't you believe these Palestenian testimonies?

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

“Discredits” him? I think he’s doing this job quite well himself for the last month or so.

 

I'm not sure anything that's  happened since Oct 7 is surprising, other than how willing some on the left have been to demonstrate that they think Hamas is somehow aligned with western values in any way. That disconnect is probably the one big thing that's new, to me anyway.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Bob Long

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not sure anything that's a happened since Oct 7 is surprising, other than how willing some on the left have been to demonstrate that they think Hamas is somehow aligned with western values in any way. That disconnect is probably the one big thing that's new, to me anyway.

Left, right, or centre. It’s crazy to support a group (Hamas) who want us all dead. 

[Bob Long]

Just now, Alflives said:

Left, right, or centre. It’s crazy to support a group (Hamas) who want us all dead. 

 

It's due to the "ladder" mentality that's crept into the left. It makes strange bedfellows.

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Can you link me to a source regarding the burned babies? I thought even these claims were retracted yet you say it's still true?

 

And you believe Israeli testimonies but not Palestenians? Former is factual and the latter isn't? Doesn't sound fair to me. Why don't you believe these Palestenian testimonies?

I don't believe them because they have a terrorist government who is likely coercing them.