Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not sure anything that's a happened since Oct 7 is surprising, other than how willing some on the left have been to demonstrate that they think Hamas is somehow aligned with western values in any way. That disconnect is probably the one big thing that's new, to me anyway.

It's not that. It's how is this war still allowed to go on. Its the blaring hypocrisy being seen. How is there no ceasefire? Fascists cheering on the IDF to finish the job, at whatever the cost.

[Super19]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I don't believe them because they have a terrorist government who is likely coercing them.

Even if that was a fair and true statement, who executed the bodies of those men women and children after the IDF sweeped the area?

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It's not that. It's how is this war still allowed to go on. Its the blaring hypocrisy being seen. How is there no ceasefire? Fascists cheering on the IDF to finish the job, at whatever the cost.

There is no ceasefire because the job of replacing the terrorists in charge of Gaza with actual people isn't complete.  A ceasefire will be an option once Hamas is exterminated.

Edited December 14, 2023 by King Heffy

[King Heffy]

Just now, Super19 said:

Even if that was a fair and true statement, who executed the bodies of those men women and children after the IDF sweeped the area?

Hamas.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It's not that. It's how is this war still allowed to go on. Its the blaring hypocrisy being seen. How is there no ceasefire? Fascists cheering on the IDF to finish the job, at whatever the cost.

 

Allowed by who? Egypt eg is happy to see Hamas get destroyed 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

It's not that. It's how is this war still allowed to go on. It’s the blaring hypocrisy being seen. How is there no ceasefire? Fascists cheering on the IDF to finish the job, at whatever the cost.

So wanting Hamas eliminated makes a person a fascist? IMHAO eliminating Hamas will free the people of Gaza from evil. 

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Hamas.

Then why didn't the IDF drag the bodies out and say look at what Hamas did? There were shell cases all over the floor, and the IDF supposedly took their guns... wouldn't be hard to make a story from this.

 

Think about it. If Hamas came in and executed those bodies. Left survivors. Soon after IDF comes in and secures the area. Why didn't the people from the school disclose that information to the IDF, knowing the area was secured? 

 

Are the Palestinian people liars? Cowards? Even in the face of their final stages of life? Maybe. Maybe not. The latter has grave implications for the IDF soldiers.

Edited December 14, 2023 by Super19

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So wanting Hamas eliminated makes a person a fascist? IMHAO eliminating Hamas will free the people of Gaza from evil. 

Not wanting all these children to get killed and innocent family lives of a people and their land get absolutely destroyed makes a person a terrorizing anti-semite?

 

22,000 "dumb bombs" dropped on Gaza. Not little water pipe rockets either. JDAMS. Bunker busting bombs used on warships. White phospohouros. Heavy duty damaging stuff. No precision. Only destruction.

[StrayDog]

25 minutes ago, Super19 said:

How is there no ceasefire? 

There is no ceasefire because Hamas claimed Israel rejected a hostage exchange deal. Then Hamas started firing rockets into Israel.

[billydakid]

42 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Not wanting all these children to get killed and innocent family lives of a people and their land get absolutely destroyed makes a person a terrorizing anti-semite?

 

22,000 "dumb bombs" dropped on Gaza. Not little water pipe rockets either. JDAMS. Bunker busting bombs used on warships. White phospohouros. Heavy duty damaging stuff. No precision. Only destruction.

I always find it interesting to see how people are always wanting to take a 'side', good guy bad guy type thing.

I think most of this is due to ignorance (and not calling you ignorant, people in general) of the deep issues involved in conflicts all over the world, the media and how they 'spin it' is a big part, as they never tell the truth of issues.

 

There seems to be a lack of understanding that often both sides can be to blame / its alot more complicated that people want to admit. One can say Netenyahu (sp) is a war monger who thrives on this, and in fact many Jewish people say the same. At the same time, you can also recognize, Hamas is a terrorist group backed (apparently) by over 80% of their population. Hamas's goals are no different than Hitler, they want to wipe Israel and Jews off the map, as does Iran.

 

It's not until people are willing to accept both those statements, can we find a path to peace.

 

Moreover, people in Canada, harassing Jews, their businesses, chanting to the river to the sea, tearing down posters are generally some of the most ignorant and vile people in this country, and do not stand for Canadian values. No one here / not in govt in Israel has any impact on the events there. Harassing people in the west is bigoted and racist. I honestly think many of these people are too stupid to even know what they're calling for, that or they are happily anti-semitic. As an example, many in the LGBTQ+ community seem to be cheering for Hamas, to me the level of ignorance that shows is unbelievable. They should go to Gaza, Hamas will throw them off buildings or cut their heads off for being gay etc.....the absurdity is only lost on them.  The same holds for harassing muslims and islamaphobia.

 

You can empathize with civilians in Palestine and what they've been through, but still call out Hamas for their terrorism. This seems to be something that is missed by many in the west who just want to be involved in the new "Social Justice Warrior Thing" online.

 

I am muslim by the way and my wife is Jewish. So I think I have a reasonable view into this.

Edited December 14, 2023 by billydakid

[Super19]

23 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

There is no ceasefire because Hamas claimed Israel rejected a hostage exchange deal. Then Hamas started firing rockets into Israel.

It's 153-10 at the UN.  And the vote that mattered the most was on the losing side. Yet it was the most powerful vote.

[Bob Long]

40 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Then why didn't the IDF drag the bodies out and say look at what Hamas did? There were shell cases all over the floor, and the IDF supposedly took their guns... wouldn't be hard to make a story from this.

 

Think about it. If Hamas came in and executed those bodies. Left survivors. Soon after IDF comes in and secures the area. Why didn't the people from the school disclose that information to the IDF, knowing the area was secured? 

 

Are the Palestinian people liars? Cowards? Even in the face of their final stages of life? Maybe. Maybe not. The latter has grave implications for the IDF soldiers.

 

Maybe the IDF doesn't have the same time on their hands Hamas does? 

 

Also tell me what good any of these tweets are doing? People just claim one side or the other is to blame and nothing changes. They are all also not evidence, it's not vetted by anyone. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

Israel's collapse is 'imminent,' Iran's IRGC chief says in threat

 

Israel's collapse is 'imminent,' Iran's IRGC chief says in threat

Story by BY JERUSALEM POST STAFF • 5h

 

The State of Israel's collapse is imminent, Iran's Revolutionary Guards Corps chief Hossein Salami said in a Thursday evening address.

Salami was quoted by Islamic Republic state media as claiming that Zionists "are so weak that they cannot bear the existence of Palestinian women and children," a "clear sign" of the "collapse of the fake Israeli regime," he added.

 

The IRGC chief continued, saying that Israel's war in Gaza had triggered a global aversion to Israel. "The world’s hatred of Zionists is not confined to Muslims anymore," Salami was quoted as saying.

 

"People have rallied against Zionists even next to the White House and in the streets of London and Europe," referencing anti-Zionist marches that have taken place across the globe following Hamas's October 7 massacre of Israelis.

 

[Super19]

 

[Super19]

50 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Maybe the IDF doesn't have the same time on their hands Hamas does? 

 

Also tell me what good any of these tweets are doing? People just claim one side or the other is to blame and nothing changes. They are all also not evidence, it's not vetted by anyone. 

The problem is people taking tweets and news from one side, stating it as evidence when it's not, and using it to justify what Israel is doing right now.

 

22,000 bombs dropped on Gaza? Well Hamas shouldn't have burned babies en masse. Okay, where's the proof?

 

Gazans are suffering? Well Hamas shouldn't have killed all those babies and pregnant women. Okay, where's the proof?

 

Testimonies from Israelis are more factual than Palestenians? This can surely be debated but is it evidence and proof for either side on these?

 

Hamas breaking into Israel, taking hostages, killing IDF soldiers and innocents in the way. Innocents who were also fired at by the IDF due to forced errors btw. Horrendous. Horrible. I condemn Hamas for that. But Israel making up shocking lies to fuel the even worse atrocities they're commiting in Gaza rn is even worse.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong with sources showing the proof.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[StrayDog]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

It's 153-10 at the UN.  And the vote that mattered the most was on the losing side. Yet it was the most powerful vote.

It was a UN resolution to end the ceasefire hours before it was due to end?

The US has also stated it vetoed the UN ceasefire because the resolution put forth did not condemn Hamas' terrorist actions on Oct 7.

[StrayDog]

12 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The problem is people taking tweets and news from one side, stating it as evidence when it's not, and using it to justify what Israel is doing right now.

 

Unlike people say, taking tweets and news from one side, stating it as evidence when it's not, and using it to justify what Hamas has done?

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Unlike people say, taking tweets and news from one side, stating it as evidence when it's not, and using it to justify what Hamas has done?

Edit; there's no point. Whatever

Edited December 14, 2023 by Super19

[StrayDog]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

I just literally condem3n3d what Hamas had indeed done.

Hey you did! Good job! Now actually call them terrorists instead of resistance fighters.....

[King Heffy]

12 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Hey you did! Good job! Now actually call them terrorists instead of resistance fighters.....

He seems to think they have a right to exist for some reason.

[StrayDog]

17 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Edit; there's no point. Whatever

I believe you've continually used the phrase "challenging someone's opinion" when you present arguments. So here I am challenging your opinion and instead of you challenging back all you got is "Whatever"? You were more than happy and smug when you were throwing your challenges around earlier....

[Yoshiyoshi]

1 hour ago, billydakid said:

I always find it interesting to see how people are always wanting to take a 'side', good guy bad guy type thing.

I think most of this is due to ignorance (and not calling you ignorant, people in general) of the deep issues involved in conflicts all over the world, the media and how they 'spin it' is a big part, as they never tell the truth of issues.

 

There seems to be a lack of understanding that often both sides can be to blame / its alot more complicated that people want to admit. One can say Netenyahu (sp) is a war monger who thrives on this, and in fact many Jewish people say the same. At the same time, you can also recognize, Hamas is a terrorist group backed (apparently) by over 80% of their population. Hamas's goals are no different than Hitler, they want to wipe Israel and Jews off the map, as does Iran.

 

It's not until people are willing to accept both those statements, can we find a path to peace.

 

Moreover, people in Canada, harassing Jews, their businesses, chanting to the river to the sea, tearing down posters are generally some of the most ignorant and vile people in this country, and do not stand for Canadian values. No one here / not in govt in Israel has any impact on the events there. Harassing people in the west is bigoted and racist. I honestly think many of these people are too stupid to even know what they're calling for, that or they are happily anti-semitic. As an example, many in the LGBTQ+ community seem to be cheering for Hamas, to me the level of ignorance that shows is unbelievable. They should go to Gaza, Hamas will throw them off buildings or cut their heads off for being gay etc.....the absurdity is only lost on them.

 

You can empathize with civilians in Palestine and what they've been through, and still call out Hamas for their terrorism. This seems to be something that is missed by many in the west who just want to be involved in the new "Social Justice Warrior Thing" online.

 

I am muslim by the way and my wife is Jewish. So I think I have a reasonable view into this.

This conflict is actually a much simpler thing that people are making it out to be. It has nothing to do with the history of the region or who did what however many years ago. Its simple and can be applied to any group. The leadership of Party A launched an attack against and killed over 1000 civilians in an attack specifically targeting civilians. Party B in response is aiming to destroy the leadership of Party A and anyone supporting them. Any group that does what party A in this formula did would get a similar response from any nation on the planet that is capable of defending itself. It doesnt matter how much support the civilian population of party A has for the government or the attack, if they get in the way of the retaliation, they die. Western civilization and Israel are far more merciful towards civilians than they have any right to expect, most countries would be aiming to kill as many civilians as possible after being attacked like that. People who expect an enemy army to risk their lives to defend their enemies civilians are idiots. The civilians were told to evacuate, anyone killed in those areas that didnt evacuate only have themselves (or Hamas if they werent allowed to evacuate by them) to blame. Anyone who knows there are Hamas members nearby should be moving the fuck away from them, not giving them cover.

 

Its funny, prior to Oct 7th i would have considered myself on the Palestinian side of the conflict, I felt Israel needed to take steps to make peace in the region. I didnt really give a damn about Israel and would have continued to think that the Israeli government was in the wrong. Now though, even though I disagree with what they were doing before Oct 7th, I fully support their response and in fact would support a far greater level of force used. I consider anyone who speaks about forcing a ceasefire to be a supporter of terrorism. It has really opened my eyes how stupid some of the people on my side of the political spectrum are, I thought the people on the right were making shit up when they talked about some of this stuff on the left. I guess the next election is going to be about which type of evil you support and which type you oppose because there certainly arent any good guys anymore in this country.

[Super19]

Just now, StrayDog said:

I believe you've continually used the phrase "challenging someone's opinion" when you present arguments. So here I am challenging your opinion and instead of you challenging back all you got is "Whatever"? You were more than happy and smug when you were throwing your challenges around earlier....

Is a military raid taking hostages for the purposes of a prisoner swap, landing in a field where there was a music festival unbeknownst to them, and engaging in a firefight with IDF soldiers with innocents in the way and IDF crossfire and IDF unforced errors were occurred deserving condemnation for Hamas? Yes. Is it commendable? No. Is it terrorism just like how Israel is responding in Gaza rn? Yes. Is it a messed up and violent resistance to Israeli oppression and occupation? Yes. Do I think Israel deserves to clap back? Yes. To this extent? No. Is any other military reaction possible without causing this much damage? Very unlikely. Does Hamas want to kill all Jews? No. Do they want to destroy Israel? Yes - is that deserving of condemnation - of course. Is Israel destroying Gaza? Yes. Is Israel killing large amounts of women and children at an unprecedented rate in modern warfare? Yes. Is Israel displacing the population? Yes. Does it look like Israel is actually commiting genocide? YES. Scholars and experts agree.

 

Now show the proofs so I can change/adjust my opinion of what Hamas and Israel is and isnt guilty of and why I'm so villianfied for calling for an immediate ceasefire, accountability for both sides, and a diplomatic solution. THIS is what im supporting. The Palestinians are at great peril here.

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Is a military raid taking hostages for the purposes of a prisoner swap, landing in a field where there was a music festival unbeknownst to them, and engaging in a firefight with IDF soldiers with innocents in the way and IDF crossfire and IDF unforced errors were occurred deserving condemnation for Hamas? Yes. Is it commendable? No. Is it terrorism just like how Israel is responding in Gaza rn? Yes. Is it a messed up and violent resistance to Israeli oppression and occupation? Yes. Do I think Israel deserves to clap back? Yes. To this extent? No. Is any other military reaction possible without causing this much damage? Very unlikely. Does Hamas want to kill all Jews? No. Do they want to destroy Israel? Yes - is that deserving of condemnation - of course. Is Israel destroying Gaza? Yes. Is Israel killing large amounts of women and children at an unprecedented rate in modern warfare? Yes. Is Israel displacing the population? Yes. Does it look like Israel is actually commiting genocide? YES. Scholars and experts agree.

 

Now show the proofs so I can change/adjust my opinion of what Hamas and Israel is and isnt guilty of and why I'm so villianfied for calling for an immediate ceasefire, accountability for both sides, and a diplomatic solution. THIS is what im supporting. The Palestinians are at great peril here.

Because a ceasefire while Hamas still exists will be considered a victory for them and they will do the same thing again.  There is no reason to make excuses for Hamas, negotiate with them, or treat them like people.

Edited December 14, 2023 by King Heffy