Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Which Canadian uni are you asking about? I'm not up to speed

 

I'm sure that you hvae some good quotes but I'm more concerned about the funding that Hama sends to them? those that recieve those dollars should be arrested.

Again, well established hatred is what you agreed with.

 

As for funding to our polititians, I just read about a Pro-Isreal lobby groups in Canada. Is there any lobby groups that are considered Pro-Palestine?

I know we both disagree with lobby groups from past convos. 

 

 

Sorry on my phone at the moment - check out "Harvard president Hamas" and you will see what I'm talking about.

 

I don't know about the funding our politicians part.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yes, got autocorrected.

 

Yea, it's a complex issue, lots of views on it.

 

One thing that doesn't come up enough imo is the support Iran is giving to both Hamas and Russia. All those Iranian drones indiscriminately killing Ukrainian kids seems to be an afterthought.

 

Maybe it needs it's own thread?

 

Foreign influence is abundant from many countries.

We could have a heyday cueing up the USA playlist around the world.

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yes, got autocorrected.

 

Yea, it's a complex issue, lots of views on it.

 

One thing that doesn't come up enough imo is the support Iran is giving to both Hamas and Russia. All those Iranian drones indiscriminately killing Ukrainian kids seems to be an afterthought.

I think it's a very complex issue for Jewish people who link themselves with Israel/the Israelis that live there.

 

I've been meaning to watch the film "Israelism" but haven't got around to it yet. The films premise ties directly into this topic:

 

 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Maybe it needs it's own thread?

 

Foreign influence is abundant from many countries.

We could have a heyday cueing up the USA playlist around the world.

 

Yep, no argument there.

[bishopshodan]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Sorry on my phone at the moment - check out "Harvard president Hamas" and you will see what I'm talking about.

 

I don't know about the funding our politicians part.

I saw the SNL skit about her. She refused to give any straight answer right?

 

I was asking about Canadian Universities, as again, I am conocerned about the Hama funding that the poster you agree with (about the well established hate towards Jewish religion) claims.

 

Edit: not to harp on the funding thing but I am wondering if this is why there is this apparent Jewish hatred?

Edited December 15, 2023 by bishopshodan

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I saw the SNL skit about her. She refused to give any straight answer right?

 

yep. It was pretty bad. 

 

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I was asking about Canadian Universities, as again, I am conocerned about the Hama funding that the poster you agree with (about the well established hate towards Jewish religion) claims.

 

Agree with in part - my "upvote" isn't a blanket agreement of everything someone says.

 

So my understanding of the uni environment comes from my wife, she just ended her 25 year career in academia, and was on a number of external committees at UBC, UVic, Kwantlen and Cap. So she's seen a lot. In her opinion, she has seen the emphasis in post secondary institutions go from getting people prepared to the workforce, to places that now focus on ideas like colonialism and pointing out blame. She got out now because she's a person that likes to get things done, and felt it was becoming impossible in the new environment. 

 

So e.g., she says she see's a lot of support from her former colleagues for the Harvard president. So take it for what you want, thats just our little corner of the planet.

 

 

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Edit: not to harp on the funding thing but I am wondering if this is why there is this apparent Jewish hatred?

 

could be? I think it goes back a long way.

 

BTW, thanks for being able to discuss all this rationally and without anger, I really appreciate it and do value your opinion a lot on here.

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by Bob Long

[Super19]

 

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yep. It was pretty bad. 

 

 

Agree with in part - my "upvote" isn't a blanket agreement of everything someone says.

 

So my understanding of the uni environment comes from my wife, she just ended her 25 year career in academia, and was on a number of external committees at UBC, UVic, Kwantlen and Cap. So she's seen a lot. In her opinion, she has seen the emphasis in post secondary institutions go from getting people prepared to the workforce, to places that now focus on ideas like colonialism and pointing out blame. She got out now because she's a person that likes to get things done, and felt it was becoming impossible in the new environment. 

 

So e.g., she says she see's a lot of support from her former colleagues for the Harvard president. So take it for what you want, thats just our little corner of the planet.

 

 

 

could be? I think it goes back a long way.

 

BTW, thanks for being able to discuss all this rationally and without anger, I really appreciate it and do value your opinion a lot on here.

 

Cheers Jimbob

 

I usually back off when folks get angry with me. I dont often get too fired up, but it does happen now and again.

 

Thanks for the insight about your wife.

It is still an extreme stretch to say that Hamas is funding those people, that hatred, as claimed. I have more respect and belief in Canada than that. However, I will be cognisent of what you have helped me understand. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

Cheers Jimbob

 

I usually back off when folks get angry with me. I dont often get too fired up, but it does happen now and again.

 

Thanks for the insight about your wife.

It is still an extreme stretch to say that Hamas is funding those people, that hatred, as claimed. I have more respect and belief in Canada than that. However, I will be cognisent of what you have helped me understand. 

 

 

 

She's the smart one in the family, that's for sure. 

[bishopshodan]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

She's the smart one in the family, that's for sure. 

 

My wife has an old poli-sci degree from UBC.

 

She almost falls over from her eyes rolling when I come out with my understanding on politics etc...

[Super19]

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

At least they're admitting to a mistake.  Pretty rare for entities with no credibility to do that.

[Super19]

Just now, King Heffy said:

At least they're admitting to a mistake.  Pretty rare for entities with no credibility to do that.

IDF also admitted to forced errors and crossfire that killed Israelis on Oct 7. Haaretz is investigating about a "Hannibal Directive".

 

For anyone that was following along, remember this testimony?:

"

"We were in tunnels, terrified that it would not be Hamas, but Israel, that would kill us, and then they would say Hamas killed you," the woman from the southern Israeli village of Nir Oz near the Gaza border said during the meeting, according to Ynet."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/freed-israeli-captives-hamas-terrified-idf-airstrikes-would-kill-them-2023-12

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

I don’t feel that way at all.  
It’s only a handful of loud college assholes and some social media cunts that are creating all the noise.  

Personally, I haven’t heard a single person outside of the internet have anything to say about the war, Jews, Israel, etc…..

It all depends on what you are looking for.  
 

I have yet to talk to a single person in the real world face to face about it and not hear overwhelming support for Israel having to do the dirty job of eliminating Hamas. 

I am very highly politically active and talk about geopolitics in my friends and family circles. I only see anti-Israeli sentiment in protests in the news where they chant slogans that mean israel must be destroyed, and for me that says it all. The quiet minority are now the squeaky wheel hoping for some grease: that grease is in fact Israel lightening up on Hamas, ergo : the loud minority want to preserve Hamas. Infer from that what you will about their level of Anti-Semitism.

 

From what I can tell every single person here, all over the internet, and in real life all agree that the lowest possible number of civilian deaths and harm is the best possible way to do that dirty work of ridding Gaza and the world of Hamas. 

[Super19]

Israel has decided to drop 22,000+ strikes on Gaza. Nearly half are dumb bombs. And there are targets decided by AI. There are bombs meant to be used on warships being dropped in residential neighborhoods. Bombs up 2,500lbs being dropped.

 

I think the US never dropped anything over 500lbs in Afghanistan and stuff. Instead they would send in Special Ops after gathering intel on the targets locations and go in the hard way so as to not just destroy everything. That one helicopter strike IDF did killing that Hamas guy was relatively well done, but again that's just one strike out of 22,000+ which have led to well over 10k children now dead. In 2 years of war, just over 500 Ukraine children have been killed. Yet some people still think this military operation is producing the lowest amount of civillian casualties as possible. That's hard to see.

[Super19]

31 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

At least they're admitting to a mistake.  Pretty rare for entities with no credibility to do that.

It's hard to believe a lot going on from either sides.

 

Many journalists have been killed in Gaza. And willing outside journalists are not allowed to enter Gaza to their jobs to report and investigate what's going on.

[Taxi]

21 minutes ago, Super19 said:

IDF also admitted to forced errors and crossfire that killed Israelis on Oct 7. Haaretz is investigating about a "Hannibal Directive".

 

For anyone that was following along, remember this testimony?:

"

"We were in tunnels, terrified that it would not be Hamas, but Israel, that would kill us, and then they would say Hamas killed you," the woman from the southern Israeli village of Nir Oz near the Gaza border said during the meeting, according to Ynet."

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/freed-israeli-captives-hamas-terrified-idf-airstrikes-would-kill-them-2023-12

 

It was almost a certainty that Israel's actions would kill some hostages. How do you avoid that when Hamas is hiding them in tunnels and in both civilian and military facilities. 

 

Israel made it clear from the get go, they did not intend to negotiate with Hamas, as doing so would only encourage more hostage taking but Hamas, and the many other surrounding militant groups. 

[King Heffy]

27 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

It was almost a certainty that Israel's actions would kill some hostages. How do you avoid that when Hamas is hiding them in tunnels and in both civilian and military facilities. 

 

Israel made it clear from the get go, they did not intend to negotiate with Hamas, as doing so would only encourage more hostage taking but Hamas, and the many other surrounding militant groups. 

A ceasefire while Hamas still is in control guarantees this will happen again.  Elimination of Hamas is needed to save lives over the long term.

[Super19]

24 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

It was almost a certainty that Israel's actions would kill some hostages. How do you avoid that when Hamas is hiding them in tunnels and in both civilian and military facilities. 

 

Israel made it clear from the get go, they did not intend to negotiate with Hamas, as doing so would only encourage more hostage taking but Hamas, and the many other surrounding militant groups. 

Jake Sulliven, US Secuirty Advisor, said this today:

Quote

“But there will be a transition to another phase of this war, one that is focused in more precise ways on targeting the leadership and an intelligence-driven operation that continues to deal with the ongoing threat that Hamas poses,” he said

 

So the stages we have seen so far were not precise targetting? It certainly didn't seem so from the get go, it was just a destruction of Gaza. Hostages and civillians be damned.

 

This is like Stalingrad. The rubble and environment is making this tough for the IDF. The IDF haven't been able to advance and secure into more territory lately. And these advances deeper into Gaza are causing some blows and forced errors to the IDF. Many of the killed IDF soldiers are young, high ranking officers. How does the IDF intend to target Hamas in a situation which is looking like another Stalingrad, without blowing all of Gaza and everyone in it up? And that's just physically killing Hamas, IDF needs to consider the ideology of Hamas as well.

 

While that is happening in Gaza, the Houthis continue to enforce their blockade which has major implications on Israel's economy and panic in the region. And what if Hezbollah, an army with much more capability than Hamas, fully enter the war? The US is going to have to get heavily involved. Escalation, which we all feared on Day 1, but then subdued for the next 60 days, has now been amplified since the US veto.

 

There was a poll conducted in Israel, and most Israelis think there isn't enough force being used currently. Translation? They want to nuke the Gaza strip IMO if they could get away with it. Genocidal much?

 

 

Ceasefire and diplomacy!!! Enough blood has been shed. 

[Yoshiyoshi]

If you ever wonder if you are on the wrong side of an issue, just go look and see what side Russia supports and do the opposite.

[Super19]

Just now, Yoshiyoshi said:

If you ever wonder if you are on the wrong side of an issue, just go look and see what side Russia supports and do the opposite.

Are the 152 other nations who voted for a ceasefire, the same vote Russia made, on the wrong side of an issue as well? 152 nations?! For not voting the opposite of Russia?

[Super19]

These are the guys the are helping the people of Gaza? By destroying the land, treating them like rats, killing them, and then they think Gazans believe them when they say we will build you up after Hamas is destroyed. It's the little things...

 

Videos show Israeli soldiers in Gaza burning food, vandalizing a shop and ransacking private homes

By Ivana Kottasová and Celine Alkhaldi, CNN

 4 minute read 

Published 7:43 AM EST, Fri December 15, 2023

 

"This video is only one of several circulating online and reviewed by CNN that show Israeli soldiers in Gaza behaving in offensive and disrespectful ways toward the civilian population. Other videos show soldiers ransacking private homes, destroying civilian property and using racist and hateful language."

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/15/middleeast/israeli-soldiers-burningfood-gaza-intl/index.html

[bishopshodan]

51 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Are the 152 other nations who voted for a ceasefire, the same vote Russia made, on the wrong side of an issue as well? 152 nations?! For not voting the opposite of Russia?

 

Very good point.

Sad to see such tribal views on everything.

 

What side is someone on that wants a prolonged ceasefire for aid to reach more people? and if needed an adjusted, less deadly for civilians, approach by Isreal...

 

I know the terroists that are Hamas will do their subhuman things but Isreal has to be better, has to find a better way. They have all the money and tech, I believe they can conduct operations and influence differently.  

 

 

Edited December 15, 2023 by bishopshodan

[Optimist Prime]

On only the one day of Oct 7th 2023 hamas fired over 5000 dumb bombs at israel, talking about the number of dumb bombs really shows how little folks know about enfilade, defilade, arc of fire, and the assorted logistics of aiming weapons systems. if Israel has fired 22000 dumb bombs at Gaza, that would seem to me to be roughly equivalent to the number of dumb rockets Hamas has fired at Israel over the last ten weeks. Just food for thought, not every catch phrase we hear is all that important. 

 

Also of note, 22000 dumb bombs and less than 20,000 dead Gazanz. This number includes Hamas operatives. Less than one dead per dumb bomb seems to be a well orchestrated effort to not kill civilians.

 

[Super19]

Breaking news: another journalist killed.

 

Al Jazeera’s Samer Abudaqa killed in Israeli attack

 

• Israeli attack on Gaza’s Khan Younis kills Al Jazeera’s Samer Abudaqa after medical teams were prevented by Israeli forces from immediately reaching him.
• Tributes pour in for Abudaqa, father of four who is remembered as a kind and hardworking colleague and friend.