Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

NOFX was a great group!!

 

My all time favourite band.

You should listen to that song, the lyrics are included.

 

I met them in 98, they were supported by the same vision company that supported me, Arnette.

Met them backstage, hung out and they all signed the t- shirt I was wearing. 

 @Canuck Surfer and I saw them last December at the Good things festival.

I have seen them play over 10 times.

They are calling it quits after 40 years, currently on a farewell tour.

Gonna see them a few day before my birthday for the last time .....sigh 

[Sharpshooter]

Folks, please remember that in this thread, YOU need to be respectful. 
 

DONT SAY YOU HAVEN’T BEEN WARNED. 

 

-SHARPSHOOTER

 

[Ilunga]

53 minutes ago, Taxi said:

There are now hundreds of examples of UN, IRCS, Amnesty, DWB, etc.. Employees who have been found to not only be Hamas members but actual fighters. It's a huge issue.

 

Source please 

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Folks, please remember that in this thread, YOU need to be respectful. 
 

DONT SAY YOU HAVEN’T BEEN WARNED. 

 

-SHARPSHOOTER

 

 

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

48 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So these people, who are often risking their lives to help some of the most vulnerable people in the world don't have credibility ?

 

They sacrifice money and give up one of the most precious things we all have, their time, to help others. 

I think their actions speak for themselves. 

 

Too bad we don't have more kind compassionate people like these in the world. 

 

I support/ donate to both these

organisations. 

 

Are you critical of their work in Ukraine 

 

https://www.unicef.org.au/donate/ukraine-emergency-appeal?utm_source=google&utm_medium=paid_search&utm_campaign=unicef_climate_conversion&utm_content=appeals_23&&mkwid=s&pcrid=675406551788&pkw=unicef ukraine&pmt=e&pdv=m&plid=&gclid=CjwKCAiAvoqsBhB9EiwA9XTWGbfiSLx1ffGH4nK45uBmHpmT0KITK1qLkW0Dn4gsfdLg9GmJbYQsURoCfUIQAvD_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

 

 

https://www.msf.org/ukraine

 

 

 

There’s a big difference between actual doctors doing good around the world and the organization with known history of, let’s say, being not exactly honest.

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

There’s a big difference between actual doctors doing good around the world and the organization with known history of, let’s say, being not exactly honest.

 

Just like the church, I couldn't give a flying proverbial about a structured hiarachy, my support is with the people on the ground helping some of the most vulnerable people on this planet.

 

Can't you give credit where credit is due, to people who often risk their lives to help others ?

[Optimist Prime]

22 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

My all time favourite band.

You should listen to that song, the lyrics are included.

 

I met them in 98, they were supported by the same vision company that supported me, Arnette.

Met them backstage, hung out and they all signed the t- shirt I was wearing. 

 @Canuck Surfer and I saw them last December at the Good things festival.

I have seen them play over 10 times.

They are calling it quits after 40 years, currently on a farewell tour.

Gonna see them a few day before my birthday for the last time .....sigh 

I play3d them on my college radio show back in the before time, I know the song.

[RomanPer]

43 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Just like the church, I couldn't give a flying proverbial about a structured hiarachy, my support is with the people on the ground helping some of the most vulnerable people on this planet.

 

Can't you give credit where credit is due, to people who often risk their lives to help others ?

 

No argument there at all.

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

"If I don't steal it someone else is gonna steal it"

It's laughable if it wasn't causing so much destruction.

 

I posted that video a month or so ago.  The guy taking over is opportunistic & standoffish.  That said?

 

He, like the Palestinian occupant prior, is / was a renter. His point is that the owner wanted someone 'Jewish' in the house.  I cant speak to the complicated portions of rental law in occupied territories. I am absolutely opposed to those being moved off their own lands.  In simple principal, a landowner, can let a lease or rental agreement expire & give notice. There can be more to it, but there is also a component where this landowner could do this? 

 

Its not the same as a primary concern where properly titled landowners are pressure or kicked off land or property.  This has been said to have occurred commonly with Palestinian farmers in occupied zones. Or for developments. Secondarily intrusive controls make area's occupied untenable.  Worst is settler violence towards occupants.  All of which are legitimate human rights concerns.

 

I'll watch @RomanPer's settler long video.  There is bound to be some corroboration and legality to activities as much as there are what I believe are abhorrent one's. We'll see if that changes my mind about these concerns.  None of it is likely to change my own mind that militant Islamic groups, their corrupt leaders & control over countries & regions are the largest problem.  I do want Israel to be willing to behave within the rule of law. 

 

Both sides to look at ways of making peace. 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

 

Your algorithyms sulks in some pretty neat sh!t! 

 

 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Your algorithyms sulks in some pretty neat sh!t! 

 

 

 

Yes, who takes a guy who has associated with/ represented people like Trump and Epstein, seriously ? 

 

 

[RomanPer]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, who takes a guy who has associated with/ represented people like Trump and Epstein, seriously ? 

 

 

 

Well, Dershowitz has a successful and very long legal career. I do agree that his association with Trump and Epstein doesn’t score him any points. But he was a bright legal mind way before these clowns came around.

[Super19]

This was a vote regarding Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources... we voted no...

 

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

Well, Dershowitz has a successful and very long legal career. I do agree that his association with Trump and Epstein doesn’t score him any points. But he was a bright legal mind way before these clowns came around.

 

We have couple of saying here in Aus, in regards to this situation

 

Flies are attracted to shit 

 

You lie down with dogs, you get fleas 

 

Personally I think that's an insult to dogs 

However the meaning of the saying 

You should be cautious of the company you keep.

 

On a personal level, I had to learn this the hard way. 

Brother I did some stupid shit when I was young. 

 

I think most people share my antipathy for lawyer's, in saying that, my lawyer, the guy who helped me though the hardest time of my life, is a really good person.

We have remained friends to this day.

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

This was a vote regarding Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources... we voted no...

 

 

 

@RomanPer 

 

I am interested in your view of this vote.

This vote is not condemning/ criticizing Isreal, correct me if I am wrong, but is seems to be about the Palestinians having permanent sovereignty.

Isn't this something we all want, eventually ?

 

 

I am pretty ashamed that my society abstained from this vote. 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Super19 said:

This was a vote regarding Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources... we voted no...

 

 

Yes, it’s very sad how Hana’s propaganda has influenced so many. Hopefully soon it will be over and the brave soldiers of the IDF will have cleansed Gaza of the evil that us Hamas. 
It’s so sad hearing about the brave IDF soldiers making the ultimate sacrifice ridding the world of the vile Hamas scum. In time tge good oriole of Gaza will be free from Hamas. Then that region can be rebuilt. Lots of opportunities for those good people will come. Alf doesn’t know how anyone can be opposed to providing the good people of Gaza a future with opportunity. 

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Alflives said:

Yes, it’s very sad how Hana’s propaganda has influenced so many. Hopefully soon it will be over and the brave soldiers of the IDF will have cleansed Gaza of the evil that us Hamas. 
It’s so sad hearing about the brave IDF soldiers making the ultimate sacrifice ridding the world of the vile Hamas scum. In time tge good oriole of Gaza will be free from Hamas. Then that region can be rebuilt. Lots of opportunities for those good people will come. Alf doesn’t know how anyone can be opposed to providing the good people of Gaza a future with opportunity. 

 

Alf, you're a good bloke, don't you believe, that once Hamas has been taken out of the equation, the good people of Gaza, as you yourself describe them, deserve sovereignty, the right of self determination ?

What has this to do with Hamas propaganda ?

 

As for rebuilding Gaza 

 

Turkey, Erdogan, has offered a month ago, however this was tied to a ceasefire and Nuclear inspections of Isreal. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-will-seek-rebuild-gaza-if-ceasefire-achieved-erdogan-cited-by-media-2023-11-18/

 

This report indicates why the US and Europe would be unwilling to fund the rebuild.

https://www.dw.com/en/israel-conflict-who-will-pay-for-gaza-reconstruction/a-67714098

 

As that article stated the UAE might do it however that is tied to a 2 state solution, the same with Qatar and the Saudis. 

 

A 2 state solution has been impossible to negotiate for nearly 80 years, I can't see that changing ATM.

 

 

 

This Isreali source states the burden is upon Isreal to rebuild Gaza 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-16/ty-article/.premium/the-inconvenient-truth-is-that-israel-will-have-to-rebuild-gaza/0000018b-d7e4-dffa-adef-f7e4f0ec0000

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Source please 

It is known that hamas i filtrat3d for instance UNWRA up to 80% of their 5000 person payroll. Access to the aid and relatively good stable wages and therefore power over years 

[Canuck Surfer]

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Alf, you're a good bloke, don't you believe, that once Hamas has been taken out of the equation, the good people of Gaza, as you yourself describe them, deserve sovereignty, the right of self determination ?

What has this to do with Hamas propaganda ?

 

As for rebuilding Gaza 

 

Turkey, Erdogan, has offered a month ago, however this was tied to a ceasefire and Nuclear inspections of Isreal. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/turkey-will-seek-rebuild-gaza-if-ceasefire-achieved-erdogan-cited-by-media-2023-11-18/

 

This report indicates why the US and Europe would be unwilling to fund the rebuild.

https://www.dw.com/en/israel-conflict-who-will-pay-for-gaza-reconstruction/a-67714098

 

As that article stated the UAE might do it however that is tied to a 2 state solution, the same with Qatar and the Saudis. 

 

A 2 state solution has been impossible to negotiate for nearly 80 years, I can't see that changing ATM.

 

 

 

This Isreali source states the burden is upon Isreal to rebuild Gaza 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-16/ty-article/.premium/the-inconvenient-truth-is-that-israel-will-have-to-rebuild-gaza/0000018b-d7e4-dffa-adef-f7e4f0ec0000

 

 

 

Turkey is just one of many primarily autocratic countries in the Muslim world. Funny enough, they as the Ottoman's ruled 'Palestine' militarily for nearly 500 years. Much like they run Turkey now; minorities like the Kurds are expelled in dizzying #'s that make Gaza seem a safe haven. Have occupied territories in Syria, similar to West Bank for Israel, that are true refugee camps for several million people. When in control of Palestine, Palestinians nor Jews held rights of religion, land ownership, much more than serfdom. They invaded and annexed 1/2 of of Cypress in the 1970's. Backed al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, militants in Sudan, Yemen, Somalia and barbarically in Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, Iraq. 

 

Their invitation to rebuild is akin to loan sharking, similar to belt and roads by China. Commercially binding poorly developed nations to a re-expanding Ottoman empire.  Worse, they 'negotiate' treaties in even poorer places like Somalia, Niger, West Sudan by supplying militant muscle in return for control of mines, embezzle their top resources. By hiring groups like Hamas, Wagner. Their shores a safe haven for many an Islamic leader, to live on the Mediterranean & hide their money. 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

It is known that hamas i filtrat3d for instance UNWRA up to 80% of their 5000 person payroll. Access to the aid and relatively good stable wages and therefore power over years 

That poster, @Taxistated there were people from those organisations that were actual Hamas fighters if my memory is correct. 

 

I would like a source for this.

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Turkey is just one of many primarily autocratic countries in the Muslim world. Funny enough, they as the Ottoman's ruled 'Palestine' militarily for nearly 500 years. Much like they run Turkey now; minorities like the Kurds are expelled in dizzying #'s that make Gaza seem a safe haven. Have occupied territories in Syria, similar to West Bank for Israel, that are true refugee camps for several million people. When in control of Palestine, Palestinians nor Jews held rights of religion, land ownership, much more than serfdom. They invaded and annexed 1/2 of of Cypress in the 1970's. Backed al Qaeda, the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, militants in Sudan, Yemen, Somalia and barbarically in Lebanon, Syria, Gaza, Iraq. 

 

Their invitation to rebuild is akin to loan sharking, similar to belt and roads by China. Commercially binding poorly developed nations to a re-expanding Ottoman empire.  Worse, they 'negotiate' treaties in even poorer places like Somalia, Niger, West Sudan by supplying militant muscle in return for control of mines, embezzle their top resources. By hiring groups like Hamas, Wagner. Their shores a safe haven for many an Islamic leader, to live on the Mediterranean & hide their money. 

 

I agree with all of this.

I have no respect at all for " the sultan " of Turkey, Erdogan.

 

Alf keeps claiming that " countries" will step up and rebuild Gaza.

I provided all the information I could find on this subject.

[RomanPer]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

We have couple of saying here in Aus, in regards to this situation

 

Flies are attracted to shit 

 

You lie down with dogs, you get fleas 

 

Personally I think that's an insult to dogs 

However the meaning of the saying 

You should be cautious of the company you keep.

 

On a personal level, I had to learn this the hard way. 

Brother I did some stupid shit when I was young. 

 

I think most people share my antipathy for lawyer's, in saying that, my lawyer, the guy who helped me though the hardest time of my life, is a really good person.

We have remained friends to this day.

 

I read a little more about specifics of Dershowitz involvement with Trump and Epstein. It’s not as cut and dry as the title “ex-lawyer for Trump and Epstein” sounds. Lawyers exist for a reason, everyone has a right to a representation. Hell, even Eichman had an Israeli lawyer defend him during his trial in Israel and that lawyer himself was a Holocaust survivor.

[RomanPer]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

@RomanPer 

 

I am interested in your view of this vote.

This vote is not condemning/ criticizing Isreal, correct me if I am wrong, but is seems to be about the Palestinians having permanent sovereignty.

Isn't this something we all want, eventually ?

 

 

I am pretty ashamed that my society abstained from this vote. 

 

Sorry, I have zero interest in anything UN (Useless Nations) organization votes for. As for Palestinian sovereignty - it will only be possible if they recognize the right of Israel to exist and drop the terrorism from their agenda. Until that point Israel will continue protecting its citizens. If you look at polls in Gaza and West Bank - majority consider Hamas actions on October 7th justified and support it. Under these circumstances, how do you envision “Palestinian sovereignty”?

 

Everything else is academic exercise in social studies performed by people living thousands miles away and learning about the “facts” from highly one-sided position. Utopian solutions that assume that everyone loves everyone don’t work in real life.

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I read a little more about specifics of Dershowitz involvement with Trump and Epstein. It’s not as cut and dry as the title “ex-lawyer for Trump and Epstein” sounds. Lawyers exist for a reason, everyone has a right to a representation. Hell, even Eichman had an Israeli lawyer defend him during his trial in Israel and that lawyer himself was a Holocaust survivor.

 

I have just done a bit more research on the guy, while early in his career he took on civil rights cases, as his career went on he choose to defend men against rape charges.

He was also fixated on this while teaching. 

 

As you state, everyone has the right to a defence, however Dershowitz was more than just Epsteins lawyer, he was his friend.

 

As for Trump, well anyone who has anything to do with P01135809 is tarnished forever.

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Sorry, I have zero interest in anything UN (Useless Nations) organization votes for. As for Palestinian sovereignty - it will only be possible if they recognize the right of Israel to exist and drop the terrorism from their agenda. Until that point Israel will continue protecting its citizens. If you look at polls in Gaza and West Bank - majority consider Hamas actions on October 7th justified and support it. Under these circumstances, how do you envision “Palestinian sovereignty”?

 

Everything else is academic exercise in social studies performed by people living thousands miles away and learning about the “facts” from highly one-sided position. Utopian solutions that assume that everyone loves everyone don’t work in real life.

 

So you have Zero support for the UN's votes and declarations condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine ? 

 

As I have already posted, Arafat and the PLO recognised the state of Israel back in 1993. 

They also renounced violence and acts of terror. 

It was Arafat back in 1979 that approached Norway for backdoor negotiations, that Isreal refused to even contemplate at that time. 

 

https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/the-price-of-oslo.html

 

" We did what we were asked to. Mutual recognition and security coordination. We honoured our promises but the occupying power did not " 

 

Yasser Abed Rabbo

Palestinian Liberation Organisation 

 

All these facts are easily verifiable with some research.

 

Netanyahu has openly admitted " he is proud he prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state and putting the brakes on the Oslo peace process " 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/

 

So as I have pointed out before, it is obvious to anyone who has followed this conflict that it is Isreal that has done everything it can to derail the peace process since the Oslo accords.

Again Netanyahu has openly admitted this.