Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

10 hours ago, Super19 said:

This was a vote regarding Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources... we voted no...

 

 

 

If Canada is a global pariah the world is doomed.

 

I'm curious - did you even read the UN page thats quoted by this guy calling Canada a "pariah"? or did you just see that line and fire off the tweet here? because if you actually read it, you'd see Canada actually voted for Palestinian rights. This particular vote was around environmental reparations and resource rights.

 

I think this highlights the social media bs problem going on right now. Dig just 2 minutes into something and you see the attempted manipulation going on. 

 

BTW, you may want to check and see which countries voted against a resolution condemning racism at the same UN session.

 

 

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Bob Long

[Optimist Prime]

19 hours ago, RomanPer said:

For those who blaim everything on the settlers and paint them all with one brush - take some time and watch this documentary

 

I thought I had a really good understanding of this situation, relative to what an average Canadian living in Canada would know about it. I watched the whole doc. last night and I found it informative and pretty good. I recommend if folks have the time to check it out. 

[Super19]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

If Canada is a global pariah the world is doomed.

 

I'm curious - did you even read the UN page thats quoted by this guy calling Canada a "pariah"? or did you just see that line and fire off the tweet here? because if you actually read it, you'd see Canada actually voted for Palestinian rights. This particular vote was around environmental reparations and resource rights.

 

I think this highlights the social media bs problem going on right now. Dig just 2 minutes into something and you see the attempted manipulation going on. 

 

BTW, you may want to check and see which countries voted against a resolution condemning racism at the same UN session.

 

 

 

"Addressing the Middle East, the Assembly took up the report “Permanent sovereignty of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and of the Arab population in the occupied Syrian Golan over their natural resources” (document A/78/467), adopting the eponymous resolution by a recorded vote of 158 in favour to 6 against (Canada, Federated States of Micronesia, Israel, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 13 abstentions.

By its terms, the Assembly demanded that Israel, the occupying Power, cease the exploitation, damage, cause of loss or depletion and endangerment of the natural resources in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan.

Further to the draft, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to claim restitution as a result of any exploitation, damage, loss or depletion or endangerment of their natural resources resulting from illegal measures taken by Israel, the occupying Power.

Also by the text, it called upon Israel to halt all actions, including those perpetrated by Israeli settlers, harming the environment, including the dumping of all kinds of waste materials, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan, and cease its destruction of vital infrastructure."

 

IDK we voted against that. It all sounded fair and decent to me.

[Super19]

 

I'm also reminded of the massacre in the school/makeshift refugee camp, where we saw the dead bodies of women and children and bullet shells on the ground. People on the ground said the IDF killed them point blank. Al Jazeera reported this, and it should have made headlines across the world.

 

Also, the IDF and the church killings that happened over this past weekend.

 

And now this?

 

Keep in mind, Israel is blocking willing journalists from entering Gaza to do their job.

 

If all these things are true, even one of them, does your opinion of the IDF change? 

 

And let's not ever forget the mountains of killed children, including babies and infants - and they are still not safe as the bombs, bullets, and now starvation and dirty water will plague then if they don't get help. Help which the US and Israel deny.

 

[Bob Long]

28 minutes ago, Super19 said:

"Addressing the Middle East, the Assembly took up the report “Permanent sovereignty of the Palestinian people in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and of the Arab population in the occupied Syrian Golan over their natural resources” (document A/78/467), adopting the eponymous resolution by a recorded vote of 158 in favour to 6 against (Canada, Federated States of Micronesia, Israel, Nauru, Palau, United States), with 13 abstentions.

By its terms, the Assembly demanded that Israel, the occupying Power, cease the exploitation, damage, cause of loss or depletion and endangerment of the natural resources in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan.

Further to the draft, it recognized the right of the Palestinian people to claim restitution as a result of any exploitation, damage, loss or depletion or endangerment of their natural resources resulting from illegal measures taken by Israel, the occupying Power.

Also by the text, it called upon Israel to halt all actions, including those perpetrated by Israeli settlers, harming the environment, including the dumping of all kinds of waste materials, in the Occupied Palestinian Territory, including East Jerusalem, and in the occupied Syrian Golan, and cease its destruction of vital infrastructure."

 

IDK we voted against that. It all sounded fair and decent to me.

 

now do the part where Canada voted for Palestinian rights. 

[Super19]

Wow! Washington Post reporting this. The link to the article is behind a paywall, so sorry @Bob Long, Lord Bebo must be retreated just because he took screenshots of it:

And again, even IF al-Shifa was a Hamas hub (which it certainly looks like it wasnt) what the IDF did there was criminal and evil.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

Wow! Washington Post reporting this. The link to the article is behind a paywall, so sorry @Bob Long, Lord Bebo must be retreated just because he took screenshots of it:

And again, even IF al-Shifa was a Hamas hub (which it certainly looks like it wasnt) what the IDF did there was criminal and evil.

 

don't tweet at me, I won't spend the time to verify these things for you every time. 

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

now do the part where Canada voted for Palestinian rights. 

Canada also called for a ceasefire.

 

But why are we so half-measured? Can you point out to me what seemed unfair or not just from that resolution?

[Bob Long]

Just now, Super19 said:

Canada also called for a ceasefire.

 

But why are we so half-measured? Can you point out to me what seemed unfair or not just from that resolution?

 

first, there were no details given in that tweet, so unless you can provide the full rationale there's nothing to talk about. 

[Super19]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

first, there were no details given in that tweet, so unless you can provide the full rationale there's nothing to talk about. 

From The Washington Post:

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

From The Washington Post:

 

I don't care. 

 

edit to clarify: I don't care about tweets from you anymore. I'm tired of investigating them for you. I don't believe anything you post anymore.

 

Edited December 21, 2023 by Bob Long

[Super19]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't care. 

 

edit to clarify: I don't care about tweets from you anymore. I'm tired of investigating them for you. I don't believe anything you post anymore.

 

I appreciate you telling me how you feel. If you can get through the paywall let me know... it's a direct link to The Washington Post re. the tweet in question:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/al-shifa-hospital-gaza-hamas-israel/

 

The Washington Posts official twitter:

[RomanPer]

8 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

So you have Zero support for the UN's votes and declarations condemning Russia's actions in Ukraine ? 

 

As I have already posted, Arafat and the PLO recognised the state of Israel back in 1993. 

They also renounced violence and acts of terror. 

It was Arafat back in 1979 that approached Norway for backdoor negotiations, that Isreal refused to even contemplate at that time. 

 

https://remix.aljazeera.com/aje/PalestineRemix/the-price-of-oslo.html

 

" We did what we were asked to. Mutual recognition and security coordination. We honoured our promises but the occupying power did not " 

 

Yasser Abed Rabbo

Palestinian Liberation Organisation 

 

All these facts are easily verifiable with some research.

 

Netanyahu has openly admitted " he is proud he prevented the establishment of a Palestinian state and putting the brakes on the Oslo peace process " 

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/pointing-to-hamass-little-state-netanyahu-touts-role-blocking-2-state-solution/

 

So as I have pointed out before, it is obvious to anyone who has followed this conflict that it is Isreal that has done everything it can to derail the peace process since the Oslo accords.

Again Netanyahu has openly admitted this.

 

 

 

I have zero interest in anything to do with that organization and its subsidiaries. Please tell me how their votes and declarations helping Ukraine? Any help Ukraine is getting is from the individual countries, not the UN.

[Bob Long]

53 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I have zero interest in anything to do with that organization and its subsidiaries. Please tell me how their votes and declarations helping Ukraine? Any help Ukraine is getting is from the individual countries, not the UN.

 

apparently Canada is a pariah state too. 

[Super19]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

apparently Canada is a pariah state too. 

No. But Canada was quite lonely in voting against Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources. I've asked you what part of that resolution wasn't fair? Even the UK voted for it. 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

No. But Canada was quite lonely in voting against Palestinian sovereignty over their natural resources. I've asked you what part of that resolution wasn't fair? Even the UK voted for it. 

 

So? The Aussies abstained. So what?

[Taxi]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

Wow! Washington Post reporting this. The link to the article is behind a paywall, so sorry @Bob Long, Lord Bebo must be retreated just because he took screenshots of it:

And again, even IF al-Shifa was a Hamas hub (which it certainly looks like it wasnt) what the IDF did there was criminal and evil.

 

There are videos of Hamas gunmen bringing hostages into the hospital at gunpoint. That alone gives Israel the right to enter. They found tunnels underneath the hospital being used by Hamas. It does not matter if those tunnels were directly connected to Hamas' wider network of tunnels.

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I have zero interest in anything to do with that organization and its subsidiaries. Please tell me how their votes and declarations helping Ukraine? Any help Ukraine is getting is from the individual countries, not the UN.

 

The UN is a toothless tiger however if our species survives, these votes and declarations will illustrate to future generations, who was on the right side of history.

 

 

In your original post you stated, amongst other things, the Palestinians had to recognise the state of Israel, they did that under Arafat. 

It was the fact the Isreal never lived up to their part of the bargain that Palestinians gave up on that regime and voted in Hamas, who has had support from Netanyahu.   

 

Here is an opinion piece by the Isreali British historian Avi Shlaim, it also contains facts about how Isreal reneged on their obligations.

How Isreal is to blame for the failure of the Oslo peace accords.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/12/oslo-israel-reneged-colonial-palestine

 

I have tried to focus on referencing Isreal reports and opinions.

Why do so many Isrealis themselves criticise Isreals actions in regards to the peace process ?

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

So? The Aussies abstained. So what?

 

This article illustrates how powerful the Isreali lobby group is in Australia, not just votes in the UN and Political decisions, but how they control how and what is reported in the news in regards to Isreal and the situation in Israel/ Palestine.

 

Even a frickin crossword puzzle in a couple of our biggest mast heads, the answer to the clue " the holy land " was Palestine. 

 

" So affronted was the Australia/Isreal Jewish Affairs Council (AIJAC)

that it demanded an investigation "

 

" Fairfax acceded blamed it on an external contractor and apologised to Colin Rubenstein, executive director of AIJAC.

 

Like what the fuck, a crossword puzzle ?

 

https://johnmenadue.com/crossword-clues-and-bullying-the-almighty-power-of-the-australian-pro-israel-lobby/

 

As a Journalist points out in this article, 

" the press in Isreal is much more overtly critical of the policies of it's government than the Australian press is " 

 

[Gurn]

Hamas takes hostages

Israel takes prisoners

 

the difference a word makes. Yet all those people are being held against their will. So what is the difference, really?

 

 

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I thought I had a really good understanding of this situation, relative to what an average Canadian living in Canada would know about it. I watched the whole doc. last night and I found it informative and pretty good. I recommend if folks have the time to check it out. 

 

Brother I stopped listening when I heard that reference to the accusation against the Grand Mufti in regards to his advising Hitler to commit the Holocaust.

 

I am fully aware of when Netanyahu made this accusation and how Holocaust scholars have refuted this claim. 

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-accused-of-absolving-hitler-for-holocaust/

 

" An overwhelming majority of holocaust historians reject the notion that Husseini planted the idea of " final solution " for Europes Jews in Hitler's mind " 

 

That video is so biased.

 

Why does the International community condemn the Isreali settlements on the west bank, stating they are against international law ?

 

Why does an Isreali human rights organisation B'tselem condemn them and in this article, provide the reasoning behind the illegality of them ?

 

How many times does this have to be posted for people to accept the truth 

 

http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grab

 

 

Like anything in life, if one source tells you something, you take it at face value and do your research, however when the majority of sources are telling you something is illegal, well, I ask you, who is right ?

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

The UN is a toothless tiger however if our species survives, these votes and declarations will illustrate to future generations, who was on the right side of history.

 

 

In your original post you stated, amongst other things, the Palestinians had to recognise the state of Israel, they did that under Arafat. 

It was the fact the Isreal never lived up to their part of the bargain that Palestinians gave up on that regime and voted in Hamas, who has had support from Netanyahu.   

 

Here is an opinion piece by the Isreali British historian Avi Shlaim, it also contains facts about how Isreal reneged on their obligations.

How Isreal is to blame for the failure of the Oslo peace accords.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/12/oslo-israel-reneged-colonial-palestine

 

I have tried to focus on referencing Isreal reports and opinions.

Why do so many Isrealis themselves criticise Isreals actions in regards to the peace process ?

In my lifetime there have been over 6000 UN resolutions that passed overwhelmingly that have done absolutely nothing on any real ground situation in any part of the globe: chalk up another dozen to this war if you wanna, but it changes nothing at all: posturing and buying votes for the sake of having something to point to and say "shame on you". For instance how many resolutions against Russia have passed OR been veto'd by Russia just on their human rights record alone? How many resolutions regarding African nations that have done nothing to help the people in those regions? Too many to count, literally can't count them all. 

The UN is an ideal that I believed in pretty much until after the 9/11 era. Then the shine came off the penny for me. Hopefully it recovers its formerly good name before it goes the way of the league of nations. 

 

Right now the Human Rights council, for instance, from 21 to 23, 22 -24 and 23-25 (they overlap in thirds) sat among their number Russia and China, Cuba, Argentina, Somalia, Sudan and Vietnam. I listed them in order of perceived abuses globally. about 15% of the council are among the worst abusers of human rights globally. What a joke. Just on the LGBTQ2S+ front alone, it also includes another ten nations who would throw a man off a rooftop for being caught blowing somebody. 

 

Less than toothless, a bit of a joke, in my books these days. It is too bad.  Much like the NHL ditching special days jerseys cuz their star Russian is a bigot, it just proves to me that it is beyond time Buttman retire and move aside. 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

In my lifetime there have been over 6000 UN resolutions that passed overwhelmingly that have done absolutely nothing on any real ground situation in any part of the globe: chalk up another dozen to this war if you wanna, but it changes nothing at all: posturing and buying votes for the sake of having something to point to and say "shame on you". For instance how many resolutions against Russia have passed OR been veto'd by Russia just on their human rights record alone? How many resolutions regarding African nations that have done nothing to help the people in those regions? Too many to count, literally can't count them all. 

The UN is an ideal that I believed in pretty much until after the 9/11 era. Then the shine came off the penny for me. Hopefully it recovers its formerly good name before it goes the way of the league of nations. 

 

As I stated, it is a toothless tiger.

However future generations will look at how nations voted on issues and we will be judged by them. 

 

Me, I want my society, the people who represent me, to be on the right side of history.

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As I stated, it is a toothless tiger.

However future generations will look at how nations voted on issues and we will be judged by them. 

 

Me, I want my society, the people who represent me, to be on the right side of history.

4635 votes ago: do you remember what that vastly popular resolution was that led to zero results? Future generations will be overwhelmed with how little the UN mattered and how corrupt its individual arms became in the information age. Shrug. Literally 80 % of the one UN entity, UNRWA, is estimated to be quite literally made up of a Terrorist Group on many many many world nations Terror Watch lists. Absurd. 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

4635 votes ago: do you remember what that vastly popular resolution was that led to zero results? Future generations will be overwhelmed with how little the UN mattered and how corrupt its individual arms became in the information age. Shrug. Literally 80 % of the one UN entity, UNRWA, is estimated to be quite literally made up of a Terrorist Group on many many many world nations Terror Watch lists. Absurd. 

 

You view history differently from me, that's fair enough.

You must remember, these people, the representatives from our societies, are acting in our names. 

 

And I trust you brother, I don't believe you would knowingly lie.

I have tried to research that figure of 80 percent Hamas in the UNRWA, I can't find anything.

 

Also @Taxi claimed there were actual terrorist fighters in not just that organisation, but one or two others, I have asked him for a source and he has not been able to provide one.