Hamas attacking Israel

[King Heffy]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Lol, all South African nationals. How exactly is South Africa affected by what’s happening in Gaza? Did they resolve their own child pregnancy problems, with 25% of girls getting pregnant before the age of 20 and 88,000 school age girls current pregnant? Or did they resolve one of the highest rape rate in the world? Or perhaps they found a solution to AIDS crisis, with 25% of death in the country attributed to the disease that became quite manageable in the rest of the world? They should clean their own house before sticking their noses into someone else’s business.

They just say what the orcs want them to.  Nothing more than a Russian puppet, their government also needs to be in the Hague.  No reason to pretend South Africa's government deserves to be treated the same as people.

[Bob Long]

11 hours ago, Super19 said:

I know you love the IDF and the job they are doing so much that it's blinded your humanity.

 

And you give Hamas and Iran a free pass on their actions. What does that make you?

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

And you give Hamas and Iran a free pass on their actions. What does that make you?

-No,' he' doesn't.

'He' has posted numerous times that what Hamas did was wrong.

I don't come to this thread often, but even I know he doesn't give them a free pass.

[Alflives]

11 hours ago, Super19 said:

I know you love the IDF and the job they are doing so much that it's blinded your humanity.

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

-No,' he' doesn't.

'He' has posted numerous times that what Hamas did was wrong.

I don't come to this thread often, but even I know he doesn't give them a free pass.

 

yes, they do. They drop a line occasionally about Hamas, and then pepper this thread with Hamas information sources. 

 

You may or may not agree, but imo until you view both sides of this conflict as people who have been victimized you won't see a solution or read the situation correctly.

 

I get how easy it is to "side" with the Palestinian freedom stuff, but now look at what Iran is doing. If someone can't see this conflict for what it is and wants to just blame Israel for all of this like our friend here, well, I don't know what else I can say. 

 

[Gurn]

27 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yes, they do. They drop a line occasionally about Hamas, and then pepper this thread with Hamas information sources. 

 

You may or may not agree, but imo until you view both sides of this conflict as people who have been victimized you won't see a solution or read the situation correctly.

 

I get how easy it is to "side" with the Palestinian freedom stuff, but now look at what Iran is doing. If someone can't see this conflict for what it is and wants to just blame Israel for all of this like our friend here, well, I don't know what else I can say. 

 

Then don't say anything at all.

 Speaking of people that can't see what this conflict is, I'd say that Super has denounced Hamas's action way more than 90%, of the posters on this thread, have even  minorly quibbled with Israel's actions.

 

Which is why I can't usually be bothered to attend this circle jerk. Had a bit of spare time, and made the mistake of coming here.

I might be back in another month, but will likely see the same crap by the vast majority of posters.

 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Then don't say anything at all.

 Speaking of people that can't see what this conflict is, I'd say that Super has denounced Hamas's action way more than 90%, of the posters on this thread, have even  minorly quibbled with Israel's actions.

 

Which is why I can't usually be bothered to attend this circle jerk. Had a bit of spare time, and made the mistake of coming here.

I might be back in another month, but will likely see the same crap by the vast majority of posters.

 

 

sounds like a good idea

[RomanPer]

10 hours ago, Super19 said:

There's nothing wrong with what South Africa is doing by taking Israel to the Hague. Infact it's commendable. If you believed a genocide was happening you wouldn't have said what you just said.

There’s a simple answer to that - there’s no genocide happening. Just because you keep on using the term, doesn’t make it true. There’s a good proverb in Russian - “it doesn’t matter how many times you will repeat the word “halva” - you won’t taste anything sweet in your mouth”.

[Super19]

12 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

There’s a simple answer to that - there’s no genocide happening. Just because you keep on using the term, doesn’t make it true. There’s a good proverb in Russian - “it doesn’t matter how many times you will repeat the word “halva” - you won’t taste anything sweet in your mouth”.

Well the fact is that South Africa is accusing Israel of genocide. SA has a case that many experts on the subject are saying will win.

 

I think your Russian proverb applies more to Israel. Israel can say they're not commiting a genocide all they want. But they are going to face the heat for it, and your Russian proverb is not a good defense for them. 

 

If the roles were reversed and Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF is doing right now, would it be a genocide?

 

 

 

[Bob Long]

@Optimist Prime I'm curious about your take on the ISIS attack in Iran - is that to prod them into further conflict with Israel, or something else?

 

[Bob Long]

52 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Well the fact is that South Africa is accusing Israel of genocide. SA has a case that many experts on the subject are saying will win.

 

I think your Russian proverb applies more to Israel. Israel can say they're not commiting a genocide all they want. But they are going to face the heat for it, and your Russian proverb is not a good defense for them. 

 

If the roles were reversed and Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF is doing right now, would it be a genocide?

 

 

 

 

Hamas did kill people to bring about this war. How is that better in your eyes?

Edited January 6 by Bob Long

[RomanPer]

53 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Well the fact is that South Africa is accusing Israel of genocide. SA has a case that many experts on the subject are saying will win.

 

I think your Russian proverb applies more to Israel. Israel can say they're not commiting a genocide all they want. But they are going to face the heat for it, and your Russian proverb is not a good defense for them. 

 

If the roles were reversed and Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF is doing right now, would it be a genocide?

 

 

 

Perhaps you live in the world of false equivalence.

[Super19]

13 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

Perhaps you live in the world of false equivalence.

Okay so if Hamas did what the IDF is doing right now you'd call it a genocide. There's a thin line between logical fallacy and hypocrisy. 

[Super19]

16 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Hamas did kill people to bring about this war. How is that better in your eyes?

Either side could have called for war for atrocities the other side committed many times over. And there's been a ton of conflicts between the two in the past.  This one takes the cake tho.

 

Generally, most humanists will sympathize with the side of the oppressed.

 

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, Super19 said:

 

Generally, most humanists will sympathize with the side of the oppressed.

 

 

sure, but we have two sides that have experienced a lot of oppression. 

 

Iran's leaders, otoh, seems very happy to inflame things so both sides lose. 

 

[King Heffy]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

Well the fact is that South Africa is accusing Israel of genocide. SA has a case that many experts on the subject are saying will win.

 

I think your Russian proverb applies more to Israel. Israel can say they're not commiting a genocide all they want. But they are going to face the heat for it, and your Russian proverb is not a good defense for them. 

 

If the roles were reversed and Hamas is doing exactly what the IDF is doing right now, would it be a genocide?

 

 

 

And South Africa wants to allow vermin like Putin who are conducting an actual genocide to enter their country.  Why do you continue to suggest that the South Africans have the right to have any input on this discussion while they actively aid and abet subhuman vermin in their crimes against humanity?  When they send their current government officials to the Hague, then they can talk.

Edited January 7 by King Heffy

[Optimist Prime]

4 hours ago, Bob Long said:

@Optimist Prime I'm curious about your take on the ISIS attack in Iran - is that to prod them into further conflict with Israel, or something else?

 

Something else. If it was to throw gas on the dumpster fire they wouldn't have claimed it. 

 

Just a short riff off the top of my head: the regional instability of Israel/Gaza with Hezbollah and Yemeni Houthi's piling on has first of all, pushed ISIS almost completely out of the news, but also, they are still active and hold lands from their original 'caliphate' in the deserts of southeastern Syria. Today Syrian Air Force and Russian Air force combined sorties were stills till bombing ISIS near Palmyra, an ancient city in the desert where originally Isis blew up all the faces off the statues from 3000 year old monuments et cetera. Now remember its a fucked up world: the US forces near the border of Jordan, but in Syria proper were then making ready to put boots on the ground and mop up what remained of the ISIS group that Syria and Russia were first bombing. Strange bedfellows, but ISIS must be defeated via global efforts. They are active in Iraq too and hitting as far east as Iran was meant as a show of force and to project their power. Knowing as I do that ISIS is still fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan it is safe to say that ISIS, whose flags have been found by the IDF in Gaza...it is safe to say ISIS still exists and stretches from Africa to India now, or rather still. 
we took our eyes off the prize there and the rats went underground for a bit. Now they are back as it seems this change of situation on the ground has left a power vaccuum of sorts in the jihadi movement. 

 

Again not going to argue what i said with anyone, just a riff off the top of my head for what is up with ISIS. 

[Optimist Prime]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

There’s a simple answer to that - there’s no genocide happening. Just because you keep on using the term, doesn’t make it true. There’s a good proverb in Russian - “it doesn’t matter how many times you will repeat the word “halva” - you won’t taste anything sweet in your mouth”.

went out for lunch today and a small group of the LGBTQ2S+ folks were protesting for Palestine. I rolled down my window and let an obvious gay man with a Palestinian flag know that if he were to visit Gaza in peacetime they would throw him from a rooftop simply for who he is and who he loves. On my way back from lunch they were gone. lol

[RomanPer]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

went out for lunch today and a small group of the LGBTQ2S+ folks were protesting for Palestine. I rolled down my window and let an obvious gay man with a Palestinian flag know that if he were to visit Gaza in peacetime they would throw him from a rooftop simply for who he is and who he loves. On my way back from lunch they were gone. lol

 

Did he appreciate the education? Lol

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Something else. If it was to throw gas on the dumpster fire they wouldn't have claimed it. 

 

Just a short riff off the top of my head: the regional instability of Israel/Gaza with Hezbollah and Yemeni Houthi's piling on has first of all, pushed ISIS almost completely out of the news, but also, they are still active and hold lands from their original 'caliphate' in the deserts of southeastern Syria. Today Syrian Air Force and Russian Air force combined sorties were stills till bombing ISIS near Palmyra, an ancient city in the desert where originally Isis blew up all the faces off the statues from 3000 year old monuments et cetera. Now remember its a fucked up world: the US forces near the border of Jordan, but in Syria proper were then making ready to put boots on the ground and mop up what remained of the ISIS group that Syria and Russia were first bombing. Strange bedfellows, but ISIS must be defeated via global efforts. They are active in Iraq too and hitting as far east as Iran was meant as a show of force and to project their power. Knowing as I do that ISIS is still fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan it is safe to say that ISIS, whose flags have been found by the IDF in Gaza...it is safe to say ISIS still exists and stretches from Africa to India now, or rather still. 
we took our eyes off the prize there and the rats went underground for a bit. Now they are back as it seems this change of situation on the ground has left a power vaccuum of sorts in the jihadi movement. 

 

Again not going to argue what i said with anyone, just a riff off the top of my head for what is up with ISIS. 

 

Thanks that makes sense.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Thanks that makes sense.

yeah i am thinking of it as a political ad, in some perverted post apocalyptical sense, lol 

[Bob Long]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

went out for lunch today and a small group of the LGBTQ2S+ folks were protesting for Palestine. I rolled down my window and let an obvious gay man with a Palestinian flag know that if he were to visit Gaza in peacetime they would throw him from a rooftop simply for who he is and who he loves. On my way back from lunch they were gone. lol

 

Man, this is the shit I've been talking about. This "siding" stuff is ridiculous.

 

For me, it just shows how little consideration there is for why Israel exists in the first place.

[Super19]

@RomanPer

 

 

"Today we are celebrating my dad @DrGaborMate's 80th birthday. He was born in Budapest on January 6th 1944, two months before Nazi Germany occupied Hungary.

He was able to escape the Jewish ghetto after his mother, Judy, gave him to a stranger on the street, who agreed to take him to cousins in a safer area.

Staying in a cold, overcrowded flat, they kept him warm by sleeping on each side of him. After reuniting with his parents, who managed to survive, they fled to Canada along with his brother Janos in 1956. Living in Vancouver, he became a student activist, writer, high school teacher, doctor, healer, and renowned author.

He and my mom Rae taught me and brother Daniel and sister Hannah from an early age to be uncompromising about the truth, both the personal and political, and to stand up for the oppressed, especially the Palestinians occupied in our name.

On his 80th birthday, I honor his life and all that he has given to me and to the world.

And my wish is that today's modern-day Jewish ghettos — the Gaza death camp and occupied West Bank — will be liberated from today's modern-day Nazis, the Israeli government, so that every Palestinian can have the same freedom to follow their life path that my dad has been fortunate to have."

 

 

 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

@RomanPer

 

These are significant Jewish voices, and here is one from Vancouver.

 

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

"Today we are celebrating my dad @DrGaborMate's 80th birthday. He was born in Budapest on January 6th 1944, two months before Nazi Germany occupied Hungary.

He was able to escape the Jewish ghetto after his mother, Judy, gave him to a stranger on the street, who agreed to take him to cousins in a safer area.

Staying in a cold, overcrowded flat, they kept him warm by sleeping on each side of him. After reuniting with his parents, who managed to survive, they fled to Canada along with his brother Janos in 1956. Living in Vancouver, he became a student activist, writer, high school teacher, doctor, healer, and renowned author.

He and my mom Rae taught me and brother Daniel and sister Hannah from an early age to be uncompromising about the truth, both the personal and political, and to stand up for the oppressed, especially the Palestinians occupied in our name.

On his 80th birthday, I honor his life and all that he has given to me and to the world.

And my wish is that today's modern-day Jewish ghettos — the Gaza death camp and occupied West Bank — will be liberated from today's modern-day Nazis, the Israeli government, so that every Palestinian can have the same freedom to follow their life path that my dad has been fortunate to have."

 

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

 

 

 

And what makes his voice more significant than mine, exactly?