Hamas attacking Israel

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Every ship in the Red Sea knows the warnings. Take the long way or say you have no business with Israel, and you're fine. Otherwise they are enforcing their naval blockade on Israel. 

 

It's in response to a genocide being committed. At the very least it's in response to hundreds of children being killed everyday and atrocities happening everyday directly from Israeli bombardment on Gaza.

 

UN voting in favour of a ceasefire? US vetoed.

South Africa taking its case for genocide to the ICJ? Solid step for exposure of Israels crimes on a grand scale, but won't amount to anything being done and I even question if they'll be able to win due to the snakes in the Israeli govt making it extremely difficult to prove their intent, as if their actions and explicit words aren't enough. It's just verbal gymnastics that's saving their asses right now from utter tarnish in the eyes of the ICJ.

Yemen/Houthis doing something drastic that would have real consequences for Israel? US steps in and escalates the situation whilst the siege on Gaza continues.

 

At every turn Gazans are being dehumanized and fcked over by those who claim to be just and moral.

There is no excuse for what they are doing.  The US are providing a service by exterminating these terrorists.. Neither Hamas nor the Houthi terrorists have any right to be treated like people.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

Every ship in the Red Sea knows the warnings. Take the long way or say you have no business with Israel, and you're fine. Otherwise they are enforcing their naval blockade on Israel. 

 

It's in response to a genocide being committed. At the very least it's in response to hundreds of children being killed everyday and atrocities happening everyday directly from Israeli bombardment on Gaza.

 

UN voting in favour of a ceasefire? US vetoed.

South Africa taking its case for genocide to the ICJ? Solid step for exposure of Israels crimes on a grand scale, but won't amount to anything being done and I even question if they'll be able to win due to the snakes in the Israeli govt making it extremely difficult to prove their intent, as if their actions and explicit words aren't enough. It's just verbal gymnastics that's saving their asses right now from utter tarnish in the eyes of the ICJ.

Yemen/Houthis doing something drastic that would have real consequences for Israel? US steps in and escalates the situation whilst the siege on Gaza continues.

 

At every turn Gazans are being dehumanized and fcked over by those who claim to be just and moral.

 

This is what a genocide looks like;

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

The US already got the memo and is delivering freedom to Gaza and Yemen as we speak, you don't need to question it.

 

“Got memo”? I’m really curious to know whose memo it is. As for “naval blockade” - that would be the same for the Somali pirates, right? Just trying to understand here the full parallels.

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, Super19 said:

Every ship in the Red Sea knows the warnings. Take the long way or say you have no business with Israel, and you're fine. Otherwise they are enforcing their naval blockade on Israel. 

 

It's in response to a genocide being committed. At the very least it's in response to hundreds of children being killed everyday and atrocities happening everyday directly from Israeli bombardment on Gaza.

 

UN voting in favour of a ceasefire? US vetoed.

South Africa taking its case for genocide to the ICJ? Solid step for exposure of Israels crimes on a grand scale, but won't amount to anything being done and I even question if they'll be able to win due to the snakes in the Israeli govt making it extremely difficult to prove their intent, as if their actions and explicit words aren't enough. It's just verbal gymnastics that's saving their asses right now from utter tarnish in the eyes of the ICJ.

Yemen/Houthis doing something drastic that would have real consequences for Israel? US steps in and escalates the situation whilst the siege on Gaza continues.

 

At every turn Gazans are being dehumanized and fcked over by those who claim to be just and moral.

 

You can't justify the attacks like this. This has been the problem all along imo, people justifying Hamas. Now you do it for the Houthi terrorists. You seem quite comfortable with the damage supported by Iranian leaders.

 

And yet somehow everyone else is at fault and must fix it all. 

[Boudrias]

16 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

There has to be a naturalization over time. From militance to governance. or progression?

 

Every country celebrates their war of independence!

 

 

Does that exclude a former freedom fighter from being targeted?  If by definition two sides are shooting, bombing or otherwise trying to kill each other. To me there is a state of war; declared or otherwise. 

 

Oh, what if it is independent militants. Militia? More specifically, say militia from a foreign power.  With complicit or explicit intentions.

 

>> I discussed this argument in the Ukraine war. Russia accused Ukraine of using militia, that countries who had soldiers in Azov might even be complicit. 

>> I suggested a little green man, probably with a glove, should slap Putin, not stroke him. 

 

In the case of Lebanon, really all such conflicts? A country like Israel, or Lebanon IMO need to state clearly their policy.  Even manage their borders, certainly their populations according to policy.  If Israel grants a base to the US, who fires on a foreign power. Israel has to be seen as complicit.  It gets darker with Hezbollah. They have moved from being exclusively an activist body, like Sinn Fein, a militant one, or terrorist, to one with a political arm. Hezbollah, militarily and politically receives backing from foreign interests. 

 

Clearly, Hamas now being more specific, has launched attacks in to Israel from the West Bank. Hezbollah, the military arm, has also. An important distinction is not all, perhaps evn most, targets have not been military in nature. Its absolutely the responsibility of Lebanon to police its borders, its populations.  Just like its Israel's responsibility to restrict settler violence in the West Bank.  This is where the entire system breaks down.

 

I don't see a problem shielding from law a Lebanese man who kills an Israeli guard in Lebanon during a conflict.  Shielding a man who orchestrated attacks inside a foreign country presents a problem. I would have argued the Saleh al-Arouri assassination may have been illegal if he was being granted refuge. That Hezbollah, perhaps not as official government activity, was four fold complicit.

 

* They were active in alignment meeting & harbouring with Hamas

* Had their own direct conflicts exchanging fire in the preceding days, weeks & months

* Had the backing of foreign nations with illicit intent

* Perhaps not as direct agent, but with the knowledge of their own govt

 

Lebanon is running a slippery slope.  

 

My response is the same as it was for Gaza before the invasion response to Oct 7.  I call for restraint.  Individually its hard to fault the surgical strike in comparison to acts in Gaza.  They did not bring a building down killing dozens of civilians. 

 

My escalated response would have been for Israel to offer to not attack. Yet for Lebanon to curb its militants, hand over or at worst expel Arouri.

 

Bear in mind, I have called for Israel to take the lead, done the same even prior to Oct 7 asking them to police their role. That included settler abusers, raiders, heavy handed security resulting in death in West Bank, withdrawal of settlements. It included the defense minister & had shots at the govt. The real solution is when all parties hold their borders, activities inside their borders within the law. 

My thought was more to do with a strategic concern that Iran is getting close to a nuke. Israel and Saudi Arabia share concern for what that might mean. Israel dealing with Hezbollah now could be to secure their flank if Iran is confronted on a military basis. 

[Optimist Prime]

14 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Thanks for bringing this up.

I admit I had no idea of the support within Isreal for the Kurds. 

It seems to come from across all sides of the political spectrum.

 

Kurds , " the second Isreal "

 

https://www.international.ucla.edu/israel/article/211984

 

I have a big spot in my heart for the Kurdish people.

Same here! Those female brigades were something else while battling ISIS. Can you imagine the motivation those fierce women had? That was more than a PR stunt, some brilliant minds and bodies there fighting for what is right. 

[Super19]

Why did Cochav Elkayam-Levy, the chair of Israels civil committee investigating Oct 7 rape use images of killed female Kurdish fighters and passed them off as evidence for victims of Oct 7?

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

14 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

It's pure Canadian way of saying recon   @Optimist Prime my son served at BCR under Sajjan, so I know the lingo a bit  

My buddy was the Commander of the Canadian Special Operations Regiment, in fact we ran him in my riding as a Liberal Candidate federally a handful of years back, he didn't manage to unseat the wildly popular NDP MP though. Was your kid attached to Tenth Mountain Division? Some tough stuff went down..lemme see if i can find the footage...

I think 10th Mountain had something to do with the quick reaction force here, although I see in the notes it was a seal team going in, primarily. 

Sensitive footage warning, if you don't like harsh vids, this may be triggering. 

Spoiler

 

 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Why did Cochav Elkayam-Levy, the chair of Israels civil committee investigating Oct 7 rape use images of killed female Kurdish fighters and passed them off as evidence for victims of Oct 7?

 

 

Interesting choice of “news” source. 

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Interesting choice of “news” source. 

I find the 'evidence' the Israeli committee tried to pass off much more interesting.

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Interesting choice of “news” source. 

 

kinda. 

 

I mean we now have 100's of pages of subtext. Its really simple, people either think Israel has a right to exist or not, and its easy to tell who's who.

 

All these 336 pages has done is show me how fucked the ME is. 

 

 

Edited January 13 by Bob Long

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

I find the 'evidence' the Israeli committee tried to pass off much more interesting.

The articles on that “news” source are close to wing-nut views. 
IMHAO Hamas needs to be eliminated so Gaza can be built up and many of the young peoples’ minds cleansed from their programmed hatred. It will take 20 years. 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

kinda. 

 

I mean we now have 100's of pages of subtext. Its really simple, people either think Israel has a right to exist or not, and its easy to tell who's who.

 

All these 336 pages has done is show me how fucked the ME is. 

 

 

I have said from the beginning we are not going to solve world peace OR the Middle East in a sub-reddit of a hockey teams fan forum. 

 

What I hope we can do is talk with each other without abusive comments. Bob, you are fine, as far as i can see, but I have just now again had to hide personal attacks aimed at other users here. 

 

We can agree to disagree, without using vulgar language aimed at each other personally. Sorry to use this reply to restate that simple message, again Bob, your good. 

[Super19]

"..."Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?

Read about the history of the place that we live in

And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children

Flow like the blood of Abraham through the Jews and the Arabs

Broken apart like a woman's heart, abused in a marriage

The brink of holy war, bottled up, like a miscarriage

Embedded correspondents don't tell the source of the tension

And they refuse to even mention, European intervention

Or the massacres in Jenin, the innocent screams

U.S. manufactured missles, and M-16's

Weapon contracts and corrupted American dreams

Media censorship, blocking out the video screens

A continent of oil kingdoms, bought for a bargain

Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'

The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason

A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'

And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom

Cause you fucked the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon

It's open season with the CIA, bugging my crib

Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid

Where nobody gives a fuck whether you die or you live"..."

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I have said from the beginning we are not going to solve world peace OR the Middle East in a sub-reddit of a hockey teams fan forum. 

 

What I hope we can do is talk with each other without abusive comments. Bob, you are fine, as far as i can see, but I have just now again had to hide personal attacks aimed at other users here. 

 

We can agree to disagree, without using vulgar language aimed at each other personally. Sorry to use this reply to restate that simple message, again Bob, your good. 

 

I guess maybe I tend to see things in terms of action items, and I've learned to be blunt over the years. Comes with being in consulting for over 20 years.

 

Sometimes tho I can't help it, I really hate the manipulation that I think I'm seeing happening in the media, and it troubles me a lot. I have people I care deeply about in the LGBTQ community, e..g, and seeing the "left" side with Hamas messaging freaks me out. Or saying things like what the Houthi's are doing is Israel's fault. I mean Jesus. 

[Super19]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The articles on that “news” source are close to wing-nut views. 
IMHAO Hamas needs to be eliminated so Gaza can be built up and many of the young peoples’ minds cleansed from their programmed hatred. It will take 20 years. 

I hear you but that specific report was essentially impartial. Why would Israel think that was a good idea, to pass off that 'evidence' when it was actually killed female Kurdish fighters from a few years ago?

[Optimist Prime]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I guess maybe I tend to see things in terms of action items, and I've learned to be blunt over the years. Comes with being in consulting for over 20 years.

 

Sometimes tho I can't help it, I really hate the manipulation that I think I'm seeing happening in the media, and it troubles me a lot. I have people I care deeply about in the LGBTQ community, e..g, and seeing the "left" side with Hamas messaging freaks me out. Or saying things like what the Houthi's are doing is Israel's fault. I mean Jesus. 

Yeah that Houthi situation doesn't have me concerned so much for world peace, but more concerned for the morons in that movement. They are experiencing some glee in the headlines they are garnering, much like the people of Gaza who danced and sang in the streets upon hearing the news of the massacre on Oct 7th. The Houthi's are just now beginning to see what Gaza has seen for 100 days now. The glee will wear off quickly. it is kind of sickening that these groups "leadership" feels their lives are expendable as some grotesque click bait, on a global scale, if you follow me there. 

 

EDIT: the bold letters in the quote by the way: this is exactly why Hamas attacked on oct 7th. They didn't even believe they would be as successful as they were in the attack. They wanted to martyr their offensive forward operators as click bait to accomplish what they have largely managed to accomplish: draw a stark comparison to the Jetsons killing the Flintstones and how bad those Jetsons are for being so much better armed and prepared than the Flintstones. The world is shocked that the Jetsons are killing the Flintstones and a divide is occurring: the world is starting to think the Jetsons are the bad guys. The world is forgetting the Flintstones initiated this war. Hamas goals are being achieved and they aren't freedom for Gaza, they are the eradication of Israel. This is a baby step. Split world opinion. By and large, leftist media globally is buying it hook line and sinker. So much so that gay men are standing up for people who would murder them in a heartbeat for who and how those gay men love. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I hear you but that specific report was essentially impartial. Why would Israel think that was a good idea, to pass off that 'evidence' when it was actually killed female Kurdish fighters from a few years ago?

Are you implying the horrid things Hamas did on October 7 didn’t happen? 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yeah that Houthi situation doesn't have me concerned so much for world peace, but more concerned for the morons in that movement. They are experiencing some glee in the headlines they are garnering, much like the people of Gaza who danced and sang in the streets upon hearing the news of the massacre on Oct 7th. The Houthi's are just now beginning to see what Gaza has seen for 100 days now. The glee will wear off quickly. it is kind of sickening that these groups "leadership" feels their lives are expendable as some grotesque click bait, on a global scale, if you follow me there. 

 

yeah, its pretty damn sad. 

 

I have to think the Saudi's know every move the US and allies are making on this beforehand. 

 

Maybe I'm oversimplifying, but I have to think better relations between the Saudi's and Israel being a threat to Iran's current leader is the main driver of all this. 

 

So, maybe this current conflict sets that back a couple of years? 

 

[Optimist Prime]

Just occurred to me, Hamas is playing the 'woke' like a fiddle. the irony with my thought is that so many people insult me by calling me 'woke' that it is ridiculous, although a lot more people to my left have called me worse too. 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just occurred to me, Hamas is playing the 'woke' like a fiddle. 

 

Careful I've been called some nasty things for saying that. But its 100% true, imo.

 

My wife just left her academic career, and she's not very hopeful for whats going on in those circles right now. Its all about the "ladder view" of who is at the bottom. People want to rush to associate themselves with that rung. Its how we end up with LGBTQ people protesting for Hamas. Or people with not much experience running ivy league uni's. There's also no real desire for solutions, its all about name, blame, shame. The left has forgot how to develop and implement real solutions, imo.

 

Edited January 13 by Bob Long

[Optimist Prime]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Careful I've been called some nasty things for saying that. But its 100% true, imo.

 

My wife just left her academic career, and she's not very hopeful for whats going on in those circles right now. Its all about the "ladder view" of who is at the bottom. People want to rush to associate themselves with that rung. Its how we end up with LGBTQ people protesting for Hamas. Or people with not much experience running ivy league uni's. There's also no real desire for solutions, its all about name, blame, shame. The left has forgot how to develop and implement real solutions, imo.

 

my wife and i had, for us (we have never in our lives yelled at each other), quite a row over "defund the police". What a ridiculous slogan. Moronic in my mind, which offended her wish to associate with 'doing the right thing'. It was over the top and diminished what the movement was trying to accomplish. So much so that I figure it was injected by opponents of the 'woke' in order to make them look retarded. Yeah i use the R word still, sorry folks. 

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

my wife and i had, for us (we have never in our lives yelled at each other), quite a row over "defund the police". What a ridiculous slogan. Moronic in my mind, which offended her wish to associate with 'doing the right thing'. It was over the top and diminished what the movement was trying to accomplish. So much so that I figure it was injected by opponents of the 'woke' in order to make them look retarded. Yeah i use the R word still, sorry folks. 

 

very powerful lever, that one. 

 

[Mac]

15 hours ago, Super19 said:

So the US is attacking Yemen because their naval blockade on Israel is officially meant to put pressure for a ceasefire in Gaza. Instead of supporting a ceasefire, the US is intervening and escalating the situation in the Red Sea, whilst simultaneously arming and supporting Israel's genocide in Gaza.

 

Israel can blockade Gaza no problem though. What do you think will happen to a ship trying to get to Gaza, even if it was full of flowers? 

 

How is any of this fair and just?

 

The people in Yemen have nothing, and nothing to lose as well. Yet they say they are fighting for justice for the people of Gaza against forces they believe are evil (US, Israel, Saudi). Sounds exactly what we are saying against them, just vice versa. 

 

There is no genocide in gaza. hamas terrorists attacked a sovereign nation and started a war. Now they are paying the price and Israel is going to try to end the war by ending the pathetic terrorists.

 

Quit with the rhetoric. 

Edited January 13 by Mac

[Yoshiyoshi]

13 minutes ago, Mac said:

 

There is no genocide in gaza. hamas terrorists attacked a sovereign nation and started a war. Now they are paying the price and Israel is going to try to end the war by ending the pathetic terrorists.

 

Quit with the rhetoric. 

You dont need to bother replying to him, he is just posting propaganda to try to stir up anti israel hate. Or maybe just hate in general? I would not be surprised if he was actually a paid troll at this point.