Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

39 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Even one is to concede they don't do it now, they used to do it before their nation was founded.

 

https://thepalestineproject.medium.com/notorious-massacres-of-palestinians-between-1937-1948-ae4f4d1f61d0 

 

Women and children dude.

 

What people will do in extreme to found a nation eh.

 

Well, the Mufti of Jerusalem during WWII Al Huseini sided with Hitler in his attempt to kill all the Jews. What’s your point?

[Guntrix]

4 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

Theres two groups of people who side with Israel:

 

1. People who believe that evicting people from their homes was justified b/c the torah made them a religious promise

2. People who just woke up and discovered this conflict this past weekend with absolutely zero understanding of why 2 million+ Palestinians are living in exile

 

 

It's crazy how many peoples' understanding of the Israel-Palestine conflict derives from what happened on Saturday. The ignorance is real.

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Can’t disagree with you on this. Israel is just like any other country, with its fair share of crazies and idiots. Yet the vast majority are nice people who just don’t want to be killed.

 

Wouldn't you agree that most societies are made up of people like this.

I believe you stated the problem with the Palestinian people is not with them, it's Hamas.

 

Why do you think Hamas exists ?

I would suggest Hamas exists for the many of the same reasons the Haganah existed. 

 

Give people hope, and you take away their reliance on a group like Hamas.

 

I hope that Isreal does take them out, though I do wonder what will replace them.

[Elias Pettersson]

13 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

Genuinely gobmsacked some people are siding with Israel. I urge fellow posters to pick up a book and read about what's been happening to the Palestinian people for the past 70 years. If you're going to form an opinion about a conflict as complicated as Palestine-Israel, you can't make up your mind based on what's occurred over the weekend.

 

And no, Israel has no legitimate argument to justify its right to exist. It's stolen Palestinian land. What's crazy is that this is considered an extreme opinion nowadays.

It must be late at night for the crazies to come out…

 

How exactly do you steal land from people who don’t own it? 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If they owned their homes yes. Were they all on title to the property or were they just living there?

 

What if instead of going through the courts, the invaders simply razed 530 villages to the ground or poisoned the village well water between the years of 1947 and 1949, forcing 750000 people to flee their homes, then in 1950, because these people were "absent", Israels new court system said that those homes were now Israeli property?

 

Because this is exactly what happened.

 

 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Well, the Mufti of Jerusalem during WWII Al Huseini sided with Hitler in his attempt to kill all the Jews. What’s your point?

 

So that's an excuse for all those acts of terrorism ?

Because that's what they are. 

 

This is why this circle of hatred keeps going around.

Each side can find reasons to justify their extreme acts.

[Guntrix]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

It must be late at night for the crazies to come out…

 

How exactly do you steal land from people who don’t own it? 

You previously stated that people needed to own the respective title to their property, as if the rest of the world were as organized as Canada. 

 

If people don't own this title, does this justify another population coming in and building settlements - illegal to the Oslo Accords - in order to claim land for the establishment and expansion of the state of Israel? You can't be this thick. 

Edited October 11, 2023 by Guntrix

[Playoff Beered]

41 minutes ago, moosehead said:

How many Palestinian civilians have been killed by Israel?

 

 

Israeli forces and settlers have killed at least 3,752 Palestinian civilians since 2008 throughout the occupied West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, according to the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs.2 days ago

 

In just the last 4 days...

Israeli death toll from Hamas attacks reaches 1,200, with at least 2,700 wounded.

 

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

So that's an excuse for all those acts of terrorism ?

Because that's what they are. 

 

This is why this circle of hatred keeps going around.

Each side can find reasons to justify their extreme acts.

 

Never said it’s an excuse, just saying both sides did bad things in the past.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

It must be late at night for the crazies to come out…

 

How exactly do you steal land from people who don’t own it? 

 

I love you, and your hockey posts, and that youre open minded enough to engage fully here, so I hope this is coming across with the respect I intend

 

but this post reveals a significant knowledge gap about the actual events that took place in the 1940s and how the arab "Palestinians" ended up displaced

 

This wasn't a "legal process" by which British courts, or Palestinian Courts, or Israeli courts, calmly sorted through land titles. Irgun Lehi and other jewish paramilitary organizations poisoned village wells and burned over 500 villages to the ground, forcing Palestinians who didn't die to flee. 

 

Then in 1948 the new state of israel created the "law of return" which allowed any jewish person any where to come to Israel and build a home, and prevented who fled their homes to escape the violence from coming home (israel deemed them absentee landlords). 

 

It was straight robbery. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

What if instead of going through the courts, the invaders simply razed 530 villages to the ground or poisoned the village well water between the years of 1947 and 1949, forcing 750000 people to flee their homes, then in 1950, because these people were "absent", Israels new court system said that those homes were now Israeli property?

 

Because this is exactly what happened.

 

 

Can you give me a date on when those 750,000 people actually owned their homes and the land sitting on it?  Like their names were on the title certificate. 

[RomanPer]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Wouldn't you agree that most societies are made up of people like this.

I believe you stated the problem with the Palestinian people is not with them, it's Hamas.

 

Why do you think Hamas exists ?

I would suggest Hamas exists for the many of the same reasons the Haganah existed. 

 

Give people hope, and you take away their reliance on a group like Hamas.

 

I hope that Isreal does take them out, though I do wonder what will replace them.

 

Hamas is just a fraction of PLO that believed that a Arafat sold his soul to the Jews. If you go back, PLO had the same goal - to kill all the Jews. Those who were religious fanatics made the grassroots of Hamas. Their original win cam because of corruption levels within Fatah. After that it’s scare tactics and propaganda, akin russian internal propaganda.

 

Speaking of russia - there are more and more signs that Wagner mercenaries not only trained Hamas since fall of 2022 but also participated in the raids on Saturday. Waiting for the concrete proof.

[Guntrix]

Says Wagner participated in the raids on Saturday. Doesn't offer proof. Lmao.

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

You previously stated that people needed to own the respective title to their property, as if the rest of the world were as organized as Canada. 

 

If people don't own this title, does this justify another population coming in and building settlements - illegal to the Oslo Accords - in order to claim land for the establishment and expansion of the state of Israel? You can't be this thick. 

You said and I quote, “And no, Israel has no legitimate argument to justify its right to exist”. 
 

How can anyone even take you seriously with an ignorant comment like that? 
 

16 million Jewish people who are currently breathing according to you don’t actually exist?  

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

Never said it’s an excuse, just saying both sides did bad things in the past.

 

Which I totally agree with.

Also both sides are doing bad things now. 

 

I will state that what some of the Hamas supposed " fighters " are doing is so f#ckin wrong.

 

I am not for the death penalty however if the Isreali soldiers kill them in battle I am totally behind that.

 

 

[Guntrix]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

You said and I quote, “And no, Israel has no legitimate argument to justify its right to exist”. 
 

How can anyone even take you seriously with an ignorant comment like that? 
 

16 million Jewish people who are currently breathing according to you don’t actually exist?  

If you can't tell the difference between the state of Israel and the Jewish population, I don't know what to tell you. Read a book.

[King Heffy]

2 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

Says Wagner participated in the raids on Saturday. Doesn't offer proof. Lmao.

He said there are signs, not that it happened.  At least he admits he doesn't have proof  yet.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Can you give me a date on when those 750,000 people actually owned their homes and the land sitting on it?  Like their names were on the title certificate. 

 

Sorry I dont think legal paperwork had anything to do with this. This was the early 20th century, in a place in the world where there were villages and towns where most people built their homes with their own bare hands and operated communal farms. I dont know this for a fact, but im pretty sure that there was no functional land titles office or registry in greater Palestine at the time.

 

I know youre looking for a date that these people "owned" the homes, and that date would be up until 1948. 

 

What we do know for sure is that these villages and towns HAD people who lived in homes that they lived in, and european/north american settlers came in and burned those villages to the ground, forcing them to leave.

 

If you'd like a list of those villages, here you go:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_towns_and_villages_depopulated_during_the_1947–1949_Palestine_war

 

Here's one example - Jaffa:

 

"

On 25 April 1948, the Irgun launched an offensive on Jaffa. This began with a mortar bombardment which went on for three days during which twenty tons of high explosive were fired into the town.^[61][62] On 27 April the British Government, fearing a repetition of the mass exodus from Haifa the week before, ordered the British Army to confront the Irgun and their offensive ended. Simultaneously the Haganah had launched Operation Hametz, which overran the villages east of Jaffa and cut the town off from the interior.^[63]
 

The fall of Haifa a few days earlier, and fear of another massacre similar to Irgun's Deir Yassin massacre, caused panic across the Arabs of Jaffa, leading most of them to flee.^[64] The population of Jaffa on the eve of the attack was between 50,000 and 60,000, with some 20,000 people having already left the town.^[61] By 30 April, there were 15,000–25,000 remaining.^[63][65] In the following days a further 10,000–20,000 people fled by sea. When the Haganah took control of the town on 14 May around 4,000 people were left.^[66] The town and harbour's warehouses were extensively looted.^[67][68]"

[Playoff Beered]

It seems like some folks are trying to play a game of GOTCHA with this event. Not cool.

Edited October 11, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Guntrix]

Just now, King Heffy said:

He said there are signs, not that it happened.  At least he admits he doesn't have proof  yet.

So don't say it? This is how conspiracy theories are formed. 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Hamas is just a fraction of PLO that believed that a Arafat sold his soul to the Jews. If you go back, PLO had the same goal - to kill all the Jews. Those who were religious fanatics made the grassroots of Hamas. Their original win cam because of corruption levels within Fatah. After that it’s scare tactics and propaganda, akin russian internal propaganda.

 

Speaking of russia - there are more and more signs that Wagner mercenaries not only trained Hamas since fall of 2022 but also participated in the raids on Saturday. Waiting for the concrete proof.

 

I am aware of the the roots of all these " organisations" on both sides.

 

I to have been trying to find information about Russian involvement.

No concrete evidence as yet.

After the meetings Hamas had in Russia one would have to believe there is something going on.

[Odd.]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

This beyond stupid, whatever.

Why? It’s true.

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Guntrix said:

So don't say it? This is how conspiracy theories are formed. 

Would it be so surprising given Iran's alignment with both Russia and Hamas?

[nuckin_futz]

EU gives Musk 24 hours to respond about Israel-Hamas war misinformation and violence on X

Info via CNBC:

• Thierry Breton, the European commissioner for the internal market, said in a letter addressed to Musk on Tuesday that his office has “indications” that groups are spreading misinformation and “violent and terrorist” content on X, and urged the billionaire to respond within a 24-hour period.

The piece adds that

• Failure to comply with the European regulations around illegal content could result in fines worth 6% of a company’s annual revenue

 

[Guntrix]

Just now, King Heffy said:

Would it be so surprising given Iran's alignment with both Russia and Hamas?

Maybe. But this is also an intent to demonize one side. Again, with a conflict as complex as Israel-Palestine, we can't be this ignorant. Not unless we have concrete proof.