Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

On 1/16/2024 at 8:03 AM, Super19 said:

Not fact, literally just your opinion and interpretation you subscribe to.

 

I'm glad you'd support if the latter was said. Some Israeli officials have said that btw.

 

Also, how many innocent Palestinians do you think have been killed by the IDF and Israeli rockets in the past 100 days? 

 

Your a fan of answering questions with questions.

 

How closely do you think Hamas, note Hamas not Palestine, calculated the opportunity cost of their Oct 7 attack?

 

On 1/15/2024 at 8:58 PM, Super19 said:

1) Some people here would love what Turkey did here - if they had their lives in Turkey. Seriously. Have you seen some of the comments on social media posts from CTV, CBC etc here in Canada? Pro-Palestine March in which the protestors are calling for a ceasefire and justice and the comments read 2) "Arrest the Hamas supporters if they are born here and send em back if they're not!" 

 

1) I'm glad Turkey doesn't support the genocide on Gaza.

 

1) Turkey is not casting any shadow over genocide.  They are speaking with their alliances. 

 

Their track record on human rights is atrocious internally and externally.  Ask anyone who was a peace keeper in Cypress as a Canadian. They are not Iran, nonetheless are direct supporters of militants in Yemen, Syria & Gaza. Also 5 plus states including at least two coups in the last two years in Africa + the wider conflict in Sudan. Where minority tribes were marched to death camps & slaughtered in Western parts of the country. Internally press have been carved up, literally, in pieces to be disposed of in govt. buildings, while invited to attend.  Then there is the lost tribes of Kurdistan, a massive portion of which is in modern day Eastern Turkey.

 

Some here say wars should end by negotiation? Others by erasing Israel, from the river to the sea. Israel has held talks with Hamas.  Fatah & the PLO before them, offered territories & settlements of their dispute. Relinquished conquered land in Gaza, Sinai suggested East Jerusalem, the West bank as on the table. I have a soft spot for Kurds, you Palestinians? I am not sure such courtesy has been extended to the Kurdish.

 

 

Turkey does not support genocide?  Yeah righto...

 

2) I am not a fan of the send 'em back movement either. At all.  Applaud @Optimist Prime primes point. I'm not as big a fan of free speech, say, as Donald Trump? It crosses the line faster for me than is tolerated in the US, when actual incitement occurs.  Or divisive hatred, portrayal of violence. Suggestion others don't have rights. 

 

Protests are public however. For actual underground movements; some which could and should be both legal & illegal? Rallies are recruitment offices, advertising opportunities. Surveillance in public, in forums is also perfectly legal.

 

Here in Australia a Hamas fan, before morning light Oct 9 told a crowd of 100,000 in Sydney he was ''elated'' about the events of the day. Death to all Jew signs were prevalent everywhere, some had nooses, people cried out for more blood. Many looked ready to march on old Mississippi for a lynching.  First point; there is absolutely a line that can be crossed. People can be arrested for inciting actual violence. Which also goes for suggestions about rights and outlook of other groups, including online posts. Imagine being a year 10 Jewish school girl, who gets Facebooked as Jewish by hundreds in her school. Who then go to such rallies.  Its again important to know social media, bullying are factors that have related limits. Second point, it is also absolutely in the best interests of the public to create files on such people, such organizations after the advertise & identify themselves.

 

I am not tossing someone out because they attend a rally.  I am offering them their day in court where red lines are crossed.

 

Like all days after court, violent crime and hatred are jail for citizens. They certainly can be deportment after jail if not citizens.  Immediate if just on temporary Visa's. Name and shame, by news report and in particular by individuals is a dangerous game. Especially with editorial commentary. These, all of these are crime specific, not culture specific & hold true for all in protection and prosecution. Personally, their privacy if not guilty.

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

7 hours ago, Super19 said:

Jan 28 ISRAELISM will be played at Rio with the filmmakers live in attendance and available for a q&a.

 

@RomanPer @Sabrefan1

 

https://riotheatre.ca/movie/israelism/

 

Filmmakers in attendance for post-screening Q&A on both days:

Erin Axelman (Co-Director and Produder) is a queer Jewish filmmaker based out of Somerville, MA. They are the co-founder of Tikkun Olam Productions, the production company behind ISRAELISM. ISRAELISM is their directorial debut.

Simone Zimmerman, ISRAELISM’S protagonist, is a progressive Jewish activist originally from Los Angeles. She is a co-founder of IfNotNow, the former head of B’tselem US, and currently works with Diaspora Alliance on issues of antisemitism and Palestinian rights.

Presented in partnership with Independent Jewish Voices Vancouver.

 

 

 

Already watched it.

[Optimist Prime]

Yemeni Houthi REBELS are an international terrorist group, again. 

Not sure what the attraction is for Islamic Jihadi organizations to pick up sympathy among north american hockey fans, but it sure seems odd to me. I would worry about ending up on a no fly list before I would post anything pro Hamas or pro Houthi.

[Wilbur]

5 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yemeni Houthi REBELS are an international terrorist group, again. 

Not sure what the attraction is for Islamic Jihadi organizations to pick up sympathy among north american hockey fans, but it sure seems odd to me. I would worry about ending up on a no fly list before I would post anything pro Hamas or pro Houthi.

I wouldn't have thought Republicans would support Putin over their sitting President but here we are.  Internet propoganda/disinformation has done strange things to some people.

[Super19]

35 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

Already watched it.

What'd you think?

[Super19]

What happens if the ICJs verdict charges Israel guilty of genocide?

 

Are those who are pro-whatever-Israel-is doing-right-now in risk of being on no fly lists?

[Sharpshooter]

10 hours ago, Super19 said:

Houthis/Yemen keep enforcing their blockade? Any ship in the Red Sea with business with Israeli ports is a target for them. I read they will be targetting US and UK ships now too. 

The Houthis have no legality behind blockading international shipping lanes, based on their opposition to possible deliveries to Israel. 
 

I hope they do target US and UK ships. 
 

The maelstrom they reap upon themselves will be unforgiving. 

[Sharpshooter]

15 minutes ago, Super19 said:

What happens if the ICJs verdict charges Israel guilty of genocide?

 

Are those who are pro-whatever-Israel-is doing-right-now in risk of being on no fly lists?

I’ll confidently say that there will be no judgment of genocide. 
 

There’s no intent or practice for the genocide claim. 
 

That seems to be wishful thinking on your part. 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yemeni Houthi REBELS are an international terrorist group, again. 

Not sure what the attraction is for Islamic Jihadi organizations to pick up sympathy among north american hockey fans, but it sure seems odd to me. I would worry about ending up on a no fly list before I would post anything pro Hamas or pro Houthi.

 

Not sure why supporting Palestinians right to self determination, freedom and justice is interpreted as being pro Hamas, especially when one has denounced the actions of Hamas. 

 

@Canuck Surfer accused me of using Hamas propaganda when using the word arpartheid, which I personally didn't, I stated they live under a form of oppression.

 

Is ex Mossad chief Tamir Pardo a Hamas propagandist when he stated Isreal is imposing apartheid on the Palestinian people ?

 

 

 

Is ex Isreali PM  Ehud Olmert a Hamas propagandist when he states 

" We can't afford to live under circumstances where there are millions of people without rights which we occupy without giving them the basic elementary rights they deserve .... I feel we are coming close to the point that Isreal will be perceived as an apartheid country " 

 

Are the Isreali politicians statements at the end of this article Hamas propaganda. ?

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785

 

 

Why do many Isrealis themselves from all over the world condemn Isreals treatment of the Palestinians ?

 

Why do you think they do this ? 

 

 

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

I’ll confidently say that there will be no judgment of genocide. 
 

There’s no intent or practice for the genocide claim. 
 

That seems to be wishful thinking on your part. 

It will be hard to prove the intent. But there's no practice?  Gaza is in rubble. There's no food. Everyone is displaced. Most homes destroyed. You must agree this is a collective punishment. And this no one should support. 

[Sharpshooter]

17 minutes ago, Super19 said:

It will be hard to prove the intent. But there's no practice?  Gaza is in rubble. There's no food. Everyone is displaced. Most homes destroyed. You must agree this is a collective punishment. And this no one should support. 

Courts require intent. 

 

I’m being blunt in response to your previous post. 
 

 

 

[Super19]

47 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Courts require intent. 

 

I’m being blunt in response to your previous post. 
 

 

 

 "We are only targetting Hamas, not civillians". 

 

Sounds like there is no intent. Not guilty! Open and shut case?

Edited January 17 by Super19

[Super19]

 

[Super19]

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

 "We are only targetting Hamas, not civillians". 

 

Sounds like there is no intent. Not guilty! Open and shut case?

Evidence of genocide requires legal evidence, including intent. 
 

You may not like that but it is the legal requirement. 
 

 

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Evidence of genocide requires legal evidence, including intent. 
 

You may not like that but it is the legal requirement. 
 

 

South Africa is on it.

 

"We know too well that our freedom is incomplete without the freedom of the Palestinians." - Nelson Mandela 

[Super19]

Wow, who would have guessed an escalation in the region to involve Iran and Pakistan?

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Super19 said:

Wow, who would have guessed an escalation in the region to involve Iran and Pakistan?

 

Escalations start at home.

 

It seems regardless which 'Islamic fundamentalists' start in which of their individual homes. Gaza is hardly the biggest conflict, its actually not even close. 

 

* I have already raised my own hypothesis that many, or most regime's are ultra nationalistic. I did not use the term nationalistic, but at worst this a good parallel term? The groups consolidate themselves among their cultural identity. Then create an ideology based on raising their status, outreach, to rise to greater prominence & wealth. Often under the guise of religion, oppression. These conflicts are constant.     

 

* It is really just corruption. The wealth is not shared by the leaders. A lure, while subjects are taught to believe even greater paradise can be achieved in martyrdom? 

 

Meanwhile back in Paris...

 

 

I am not against Palestinians working and protesting, campaigning for a better life; control over a home they can call their own. I wish it for them!

 

A good start is never kidnapping babies and slaughtering innocent civilians. Planning its execution for nearly twenty years?  

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Not sure why supporting Palestinians right to self determination, freedom and justice is interpreted as being pro Hamas, especially when one has denounced the actions of Hamas. 

 

@Canuck Surfer accused me of using Hamas propaganda when using the word arpartheid, which I personally didn't, I stated they live under a form of oppression

 

You posted both articles and written words which used terms like Apartheid & Genocide.  

 

Those being a portion of your opinion did not seem a big leap? I even admitted those views are popular. 

 

9 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Why do you think they do this ? 

 

Then go on to post more sources to support those same messages. Propaganda can & often has elements of truth.   

 

There is zero question Palestinians are disadvantaged by their situation.  Apartheid to me is a term much more closely associated with enslavement, eradication notably via racial or similar stereotyping victims. I do see crimes, bad ones. War crimes. I don't see Apartheid in my definitions. 

 

   

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, Super19 said:

Wow, who would have guessed an escalation in the region to involve Iran and Pakistan?

 

Many. Iranian leaders are behind all of this crap we are witnessing. 

 

Actually if this all somehow ended with Iran rid of these folks the world would be much better off.

[Boudrias]

23 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Many. Iranian leaders are behind all of this crap we are witnessing. 

 

Actually if this all somehow ended with Iran rid of these folks the world would be much better off.

Not as if affairs are going particularly well for Iran these days. Then they have to top it off by attacking Pakistan. There is a ring of fire descending on Iran. 

[Bob Long]

27 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

Not as if affairs are going particularly well for Iran these days. Then they have to top it off by attacking Pakistan. There is a ring of fire descending on Iran. 

 

I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking leaders know what they are doing. In this case, maybe Iranian leadership is digging a hole for itself it can't get out of? 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think sometimes we make the mistake of thinking leaders know what they are doing. In this case, maybe Iranian leadership is digging a hole for itself it can't get out of? 

The Iranian leadership is very elderly and from a psychological and religious perspective, the those experiencing both at once, they feel their imminent personal demise to old age is equated with the prophecies of end times. This criss crosses the Abrahamic religions and so I am leaning towards the old farts iin charge are ready for the final battle, in their minds, before the righteous will inheret the kingdom for eternity..or some variant of that. 

 

Literally for an 80 year old theocrat: the end is nigh.

[Bob Long]

34 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The Iranian leadership is very elderly and from a psychological and religious perspective, the those experiencing both at once, they feel their imminent personal demise to old age is equated with the prophecies of end times. This criss crosses the Abrahamic religions and so I am leaning towards the old farts iin charge are ready for the final battle, in their minds, before the righteous will inheret the kingdom for eternity..or some variant of that. 

 

Literally for an 80 year old theocrat: the end is nigh.

 

Yikes. I'm sorry I brought it up. 

 

Makes a lot of sense though. Do you think that if the US helped speed their trip to the afterlife that anyone in the region would mind? Seems to me like Iran might end up with other Muslim countries looking the other way depending on who takes over from the old farts.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yikes. I'm sorry I brought it up. 

 

Makes a lot of sense though. Do you think that if the US helped speed their trip to the afterlife that anyone in the region would mind? Seems to me like Iran might end up with other Muslim countries looking the other way depending on who takes over from the old farts.

 

 

I am very hopeful that the theocracy dies and Iran basically returns to the 60's version of itself in some ways, not all mind you but women had more freedom for instance: