Hamas attacking Israel

[Taxi]

On 1/16/2024 at 9:16 AM, Super19 said:

The Jewish Cemetary in Gaza shows its careful upkeep by the locals. Also worthy to note that it obviously hasn't been destroyed by Hamas after all these years. It's almost as if Palestinians aren't actually antisemetic. Reminds me of that quote by the Hamas founder that is important in this context "...A Jew is a people of religion and we love all people of all religions...".

 

It's not a Jewish Cemetery. It's the WWI cemetary, that happens to have some Jewish graves in it. After Israel withdrew all Jews from Gaza back in 2005, they had to remove the actual Jewish cemetery, as there was no way that would have been safe:

 

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2005/08/17/dead-must-follow-settlers-out-of-gaza/

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

It's not a Jewish Cemetery. It's the WWI cemetary, that happens to have some Jewish graves in it. After Israel withdrew all Jews from Gaza back in 2005, they had to remove the actual Jewish cemetery, as there was no way that would have been safe:

 

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2005/08/17/dead-must-follow-settlers-out-of-gaza/

Thanks for pointing out the truth. It’s sad how propaganda uses bits of truth to lure in people. 

[Bob Long]

32 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

It's not a Jewish Cemetery. It's the WWI cemetary, that happens to have some Jewish graves in it. After Israel withdrew all Jews from Gaza back in 2005, they had to remove the actual Jewish cemetery, as there was no way that would have been safe:

 

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2005/08/17/dead-must-follow-settlers-out-of-gaza/

 

Any comment @Super19?

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

 

It's not a Jewish Cemetery. It's the WWI cemetary, that happens to have some Jewish graves in it. After Israel withdrew all Jews from Gaza back in 2005, they had to remove the actual Jewish cemetery, as there was no way that would have been safe:

 

https://www.tampabay.com/archive/2005/08/17/dead-must-follow-settlers-out-of-gaza/

Again, the point still stands, Jewish graves in Gaza, upheld to pristine conditions by the locals, and not destroyed by Hamas.

 

Did some digging, and it turns out Israel are the ones who posed a threat to the cemetery:

 

• Headstones destroyed

• In 2006, Israeli troops bulldozed the cemetery’s perimeter wall and six of its headstones. Months later, an Israeli military helicopter fired its cannon at one of the large memorial stones.
• “Two dozen other headstones have been pockmarked by shrapnel from Israeli artillery and several have been completely destroyed,” The Daily Telegraph newspaper reported (“Fury as Israelis damage war cemetery,” 13 November 2006).
• During Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military offensive against the Gaza Strip in late 2008 and early 2009, Israeli forces bombarded the cemetery, striking it with at least five shells and singing its grass with white phosphorous (“Israel shelled UK war graves in Gaza,” The Daily Telegraph, 20 January 2009).
• The bombing again damaged the perimeter wall, along with 363 headstones (“The mighty march of progress: British war graves in Gaza,” Ma’an News Agency, 9 November 2010).

 

https://electronicintifada.net/content/british-war-cemetery-not-immune-gaza-siege/13325

 

The caretaker of the Cemetery had this to say:

 

• “They are buried here. How could he take them? The Jews here are Jews, not Israelis. There is no difference here between Jews, Muslims and Christians. They are all human.”
• Surrounded by fields of grass and rows of colorful flowers and polished stones, the troubles of occupation and siege seemed as distant as Jeradeh’s clash with Dayan.
• Maintaining the cemetery’s immaculate condition is hard work, Jeradeh said, even in retirement.
• “This is the best, cleanest place in Gaza,” he said. “I work hard to keep it nice.”
• Officially, since his mandatory retirement, Jeradeh has served as the cemetery’s night watchman. “I keep this place completely safe,” he said.
• In practice, his work as a gardener has continued, if not at the same rate.
• “I don’t buy plants,” he said. “I use the ones from my nursery. And I teach the people who work with me.”
• “You see all that?” he asked, his arm sweeping across the cemetery. “My drawings.”
• “I am always here. Where else should I go? Twenty-four hours a day.” Still, he acknowledged that his pace may have slowed. “Seventy-seven years is a long time.”
• He also spends time with visiting family, including four sons and nine daughters. When asked how many grandchildren he had, he laughed.
• “I don’t want to remember,” he said, gesturing at a group of small girls peering curiously from behind a row of headstones. “More than a hundred. But they live outside, in Gaza.”
• “I like to study,” he added. “I read books on history, geography, horticulture, medicine, everything. I am always reading. And I like writing. Every day, I write what happened to me.”
• When asked how long he has kept his journals, he laughed again. “I don’t remember. I have books like this,” he said, gesturing at the height of his shoulder.
• “But I started when I was young, and continued day by day, year by year.”
• “You are happy writing here,” he said, pointing to a notebook. “The head is clear for it.”
• He showed his study, a detached building, behind the larger gardener’s quarters at the cemetery’s edge, equipped with a personal computer and filled with stacks of books and printed articles.
• “The pencil is dangerous,” he said. “The man who succeeds in his life writes the facts.”
• Returning to the lush greenery of the cemetery, he said, “I don’t feel any problems here … Any man, if he likes others, the others like him. If you do good for others, others do good for you.”
• “Everybody knows that war is war, and killing is killing,” he repeated, gesturing again at the thousands of stones surrounded by his carefully-tended flowers.
• “Now everything here is history. No one here hates anyone else.”

 

I hope this mans grandchildren have been kept safe from Israeli strikes on Gaza.

 

 

Any comments on this?
 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Imagine that?  Iran; ''we were just attacking our own terrorists in Pakistan!''

 

>> Oh, we kinda had other Iranian terrorists we had to target in Iraq & Syria.

>>>> And we had our own good terrorists, cough proxies, attack US and Israeli operators in other Iraqi & Syrian sites.

 

>>>> Support Houthi

>> Support Hezbollah

>>>>>>> Finance and train, supply Hamas

>> Kill Kurds

>>>>> Kill more infidels, lets just summarize?

 

  

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Again, the point still stands, Jewish graves in Gaza, upheld to pristine conditions by the locals, and not destroyed by Hamas.

 

Did some digging, and it turns out Israel are the ones who posed a threat to the cemetery:

 

• Headstones destroyed

• In 2006, Israeli troops bulldozed the cemetery’s perimeter wall and six of its headstones. Months later, an Israeli military helicopter fired its cannon at one of the large memorial stones.
• “Two dozen other headstones have been pockmarked by shrapnel from Israeli artillery and several have been completely destroyed,” The Daily Telegraph newspaper reported (“Fury as Israelis damage war cemetery,” 13 November 2006).
• During Operation Cast Lead, Israel’s military offensive against the Gaza Strip in late 2008 and early 2009, Israeli forces bombarded the cemetery, striking it with at least five shells and singing its grass with white phosphorous (“Israel shelled UK war graves in Gaza,” The Daily Telegraph, 20 January 2009).
• The bombing again damaged the perimeter wall, along with 363 headstones (“The mighty march of progress: British war graves in Gaza,” Ma’an News Agency, 9 November 2010).

 

https://electronicintifada.net/content/british-war-cemetery-not-immune-gaza-siege/13325

 

The caretaker of the Cemetery had this to say:

 

• “They are buried here. How could he take them? The Jews here are Jews, not Israelis. There is no difference here between Jews, Muslims and Christians. They are all human.”
• Surrounded by fields of grass and rows of colorful flowers and polished stones, the troubles of occupation and siege seemed as distant as Jeradeh’s clash with Dayan.
• Maintaining the cemetery’s immaculate condition is hard work, Jeradeh said, even in retirement.
• “This is the best, cleanest place in Gaza,” he said. “I work hard to keep it nice.”
• Officially, since his mandatory retirement, Jeradeh has served as the cemetery’s night watchman. “I keep this place completely safe,” he said.
• In practice, his work as a gardener has continued, if not at the same rate.
• “I don’t buy plants,” he said. “I use the ones from my nursery. And I teach the people who work with me.”
• “You see all that?” he asked, his arm sweeping across the cemetery. “My drawings.”
• “I am always here. Where else should I go? Twenty-four hours a day.” Still, he acknowledged that his pace may have slowed. “Seventy-seven years is a long time.”
• He also spends time with visiting family, including four sons and nine daughters. When asked how many grandchildren he had, he laughed.
• “I don’t want to remember,” he said, gesturing at a group of small girls peering curiously from behind a row of headstones. “More than a hundred. But they live outside, in Gaza.”
• “I like to study,” he added. “I read books on history, geography, horticulture, medicine, everything. I am always reading. And I like writing. Every day, I write what happened to me.”
• When asked how long he has kept his journals, he laughed again. “I don’t remember. I have books like this,” he said, gesturing at the height of his shoulder.
• “But I started when I was young, and continued day by day, year by year.”
• “You are happy writing here,” he said, pointing to a notebook. “The head is clear for it.”
• He showed his study, a detached building, behind the larger gardener’s quarters at the cemetery’s edge, equipped with a personal computer and filled with stacks of books and printed articles.
• “The pencil is dangerous,” he said. “The man who succeeds in his life writes the facts.”
• Returning to the lush greenery of the cemetery, he said, “I don’t feel any problems here … Any man, if he likes others, the others like him. If you do good for others, others do good for you.”
• “Everybody knows that war is war, and killing is killing,” he repeated, gesturing again at the thousands of stones surrounded by his carefully-tended flowers.
• “Now everything here is history. No one here hates anyone else.”

 

I hope this mans grandchildren have been kept safe from Israeli strikes on Gaza.

 

 

Any comments on this?
 

 

 

 

So you think we should give credit to people for not being scumbags and destroying graves?

 

[Yoshiyoshi]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

So you think we should give credit to people for not being scumbags and destroying graves?

 

id rather they destroy graves than murder and kidnap people. if they had destroyed graves on oct 7th instead no one would have really cared at a lot of people wouldnt have died.

[Super19]

.

Edited January 17 by Super19

[Super19]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So you think we should give credit to people for not being scumbags and destroying graves?

 

@Taxi article from 2004 stated this:
"The reason for the disinterments? Fears that Palestinians, who will soon take control of Jewish-occupied land in Gaza, would desecrate Jewish graves."

 

 

 

Quote

 

Following Israel’s 1967 seizure of the Gaza Strip, Moshe Dayan, then Israeli defense minister, sought to exhume the cemetery’s five Jewish graves and take them to Israel.

The attempt came as Israeli forces looted thousands of historical artifacts, particularly Jewish ones, from their newly-occupied territories, an effort in which Dayan participated enthusiastically as both a military official and a private collector (“Stealing Palestine’s history,” This Week in Palestine, 1 October 2005).

“I refused,” Jeradeh said, his eyes bright. “I was young then. I told him, ‘Go to our office in London.’”

“No difference”

“They are buried here. How could he take them? The Jews here are Jews, not Israelis. There is no difference here between Jews, Muslims and Christians. They are all human.”

 

The Caretaker and Palestinians stayed true to their words and did not desecrate these Jewish graves, at least the ones not in that cemetery the IDF recently had a photo-op infront of.

 

Any comments re. the cemeterys the IDF defiled? 

[Bob Long]

13 minutes ago, Super19 said:

@Taxi article from 2004 stated this:
"The reason for the disinterments? Fears that Palestinians, who will soon take control of Jewish-occupied land in Gaza, would desecrate Jewish graves."

 

 

 

The Caretaker and Palestinians stayed true to their words and did not desecrate these Jewish graves, at least the ones not in that cemetery the IDF recently had a photo-op infront of.

 

Any comments re. the cemeterys the IDF defiled? 

 

So what? what bearing does this have at all on the current conflict?

[Super19]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

So what? what bearing does this have at all on the current conflict?

The man who upkept the cemetery that Israelis feared in 2004 would have had all Jewish graves desecrated, has perhaps 100 grandchildren in Gaza who are in grave peril from Israeli bombardment as we speak. 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

The man who upkept the cemetery that Israelis feared in 2004 would have had all Jewish graves desecrated, has perhaps 100 grandchildren in Gaza who are in grave peril from Israeli bombardment as we speak. 

 

OK?

[Super19]

26 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

OK?

Okay... Sounds like collective punishment to me, but cest la vie for those dealt with the card of being Palestinian born in Gaza. At least, while these Palestinian kids and families run and find shelter and food and evade the bombs, they can take solace in the fact that Nentanyahu is disintent on targeting them. And once this is all over, the IDF will take good care of them. Right?

Edited January 17 by Super19

[Bob Long]

Just now, Super19 said:

Okay... Sounds like collective punishment to me, but cest la vie for those dealt with the card of being Palestinian born in Gaza. At least, while these Palestinian kids and families run and find shelter and food and evade the bombs, they can take solace in the fact that Nentanyahu is disintent on targeting them. And once this is all over, the IDF will take good care of them.

 

no, it sounds like you're trying to link things that have nothing to do with each other. 

[Super19]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

no, it sounds like you're trying to link things that have nothing to do with each other. 

The Palestinian people are in harms way from Israeli bombardment so of course there's a link.

[Bob Long]

Just now, Super19 said:

The Palestinian people are in harms way from Israeli bombardment so of course there's a link.

 

we're taking about it, so are we linked too?

 

sorry these one-off anecdotes don't do anything to actually bolster your views. Its not going to sway anyone imo. I bet we can find some sad Israeli stories from Oct. 7, will that change your mind? how about the Canadians killed by Hamas, does that change your mind on anything?

 

How about the support the current Iranian leaders are providing to cause harm in the region? are you OK with that?

 

 

[King Heffy]

12 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Okay... Sounds like collective punishment to me, but cest la vie for those dealt with the card of being Palestinian born in Gaza. At least, while these Palestinian kids and families run and find shelter and food and evade the bombs, they can take solace in the fact that Nentanyahu is disintent on targeting them. And once this is all over, the IDF will take good care of them. Right?

The IDF will take better care of them than Hamas, who throw them off rooftops and steal their food.

Edited January 17 by King Heffy

[Super19]

20 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I bet we can find some sad Israeli stories from Oct. 7, will that change your mind? how about the Canadians killed by Hamas, does that change your mind on anything?

 

 

 

 

I condemn all that. Even what @RomanPer accounted from his experiences in 2005. Tragic.

What do you think I should change my mind on? For clarity, I don't think anything justifies what Israel has been doing the past 100 days - this is NOT the way.

[Optimist Prime]

If Hamas surrendered this minute, the people they govern would be MUCH better off, immediately. If they surrendered on Oct 8th there would be 12,000 more living Gazans free from harm. Hamas even this last day fired MORE rockets from the top of a Hospital in Khan Unis, now they will scream and lament that nasty Israel is bombing yet another hospital. 

 

I want the people of Gaza to be safe and sound and enjoy peace and prosperity. 

 

For that to happen the horrible men who rule them must be taken out of power. By every means possible. 

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You posted both articles and written words which used terms like Apartheid & Genocide.  

 

Those being a portion of your opinion did not seem a big leap? I even admitted those views are popular. 

 

 

Then go on to post more sources to support those same messages. Propaganda can & often has elements of truth.   

 

There is zero question Palestinians are disadvantaged by their situation.  Apartheid to me is a term much more closely associated with enslavement, eradication notably via racial or similar stereotyping victims. I do see crimes, bad ones. War crimes. I don't see Apartheid in my definitions. 

 

   

 

So I am only allowed to quote people that fit the narrative that Isreal wants everyone to believe ? 

 

Brother it was those prominent Isrealis that used that term.

So are they Hamas propagandists ?

 

Are the many Isrealis across the world who condemn Isreals treatment of Palestinians Hamas propagandists ?

 

I would like someone to answer the question I posed, why do so many Isrealis say Isreal is committing arpartheid on the Palestinians. 

 

 

 

Again words have meanings, the word arpartheid has nothing to do with slavery

 

Arpartheid

 

" A policy or system of segragation or discrimination on the grounds of race " 

 

Does this fit the example,

Isreal steals land on the west bank and then build roads that only Israelis are allowed to drive on 

 

https://www.nrc.no/shorthand/stories/in-the-west-bank-segregated-roads-displace-palestinians/index.html

 

Why do people make excuses for Isreal when they would not tolerate that behaviour elsewhere.

 

And please quote me where I used an article that used the word genocide.

 

As I have already stated, earlier in the thread I defended Isreal against the claims of genocide.

Since then I have been silent on this subject.

Edited January 18 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

54 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

If Hamas surrendered this minute, the people they govern would be MUCH better off, immediately. If they surrendered on Oct 8th there would be 12,000 more living Gazans free from harm. Hamas even this last day fired MORE rockets from the top of a Hospital in Khan Unis, now they will scream and lament that nasty Israel is bombing yet another hospital. 

 

I want the people of Gaza to be safe and sound and enjoy peace and prosperity. 

 

For that to happen the horrible men who rule them must be taken out of power. By every means possible. 

 

Again I will pose the question that no one wants to answer, how many women and children have to die before the cost is too great ?

 

How would you feel if that was your wife, sister, niece, nephew ? 

How would you feel if some told you in that case, oh that's a shame they are just collateral damage ?

 

How much destruction ?

 

I have already provided figures that people just ignore.

 

22,000 strikes in 3 months, in an area that is the size of Philadelphia.

 

Doesn't that horrify you ?

It does me.

 

" Who ever fights monsters should see to it should see to it that they do not become a monster "

 

Frederick Nietzsche 

[Gurn]

I'd like to re join this conversation, but apparently I should worry about no longer being able to fly anywhere; for daring to have an opinion that the government doesn't like.

 

Welcome to Canada, eh?

 

Whole new world- and it is repulsive.

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, King Heffy said:

The IDF will take better care of them than Hamas, who throw them off rooftops and steal their food.

 

You really should get your facts straight.

 

 

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/

 

And just in case you want to challenge the source 

 

Reuters 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/

 

Factual reporting very high 

 

And here is another source 

 

https://news.abplive.com/fact-check/israel-gaza-war-video-claiming-hamas-pushing-hostages-off-building-false-islamic-state-execution-footage-1648018

 

And yet another 

 

https://fullfact.org/news/video-islamic-state-execution-not-hamas/ 

 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

27 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Again I will pose the question that no one wants to answer, how many women and children have to die before the cost is too great ?

 

How would you feel if that was your wife, sister, niece, nephew ? 

How would you feel if some told you in that case, oh that's a shame they are just collateral damage ?

 

How much destruction ?

 

I have already provided figures that people just ignore.

 

22,000 strikes in 3 months, in an area that is the size of Philadelphia.

 

Doesn't that horrify you ?

It does me.

 

" Who ever fights monsters should see to it should see to it that they do not become a monster "

 

Frederick Nietzsche 

Hamas has attacked and attacked and attacked and attacked: if it stays in power in Gaza there will be future murders of peaceful folks like at the Peace Festival. 

I think the people of Gaza could hand over hamas pretty easily if they choose to do so. 

At this day in the war, a little over 100 days, I don't see that the cost is too high yet. In the past few weeks in fact, there has been much less of the Gazan civilians lives lost, to stop now is just dumb. Finish the job with as few casualties as possible for a MUCH more stable future for Gaza and for Israel. The worst of it is done, why quit when there is just a little mopping up left to do? Wouldn't that be more callous about the lives already lost, if israel stopped on the 10 yard line, rather than go for the touchdown that will end the game?

 

also: my Niece goes to those kinds of festivals, it could have just as easily have been her on Oct 7th. Since you asked. 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

The Palestinian people are in harms way from Israeli bombardment so of course there's a link.

 

The Palestinian people are in harms way because they elected and support Hamas as their leaders. Please tell me - people in Dresden in February 1945 were in harms way because of: a) Allied Forces; b) Nazi Germany leadership. That should clarify everything.