Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am very hopeful that the theocracy dies and Iran basically returns to the 60's version of itself in some ways, not all mind you but women had more freedom for instance:

 

Yes women had more freedom as far back as 1953, they were given benefits that women in our countries didn't have until 20 years later under the government of Mohammad Mosaddegh.

You know the government that the British and the CIA helped overthrow. 

 

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2010/04/iranian-women-and-the-struggle-for-democracy-i-the-pre-revolution-era.html

 

 "The government of Prime Minister Dr Mohammad Mosaddegh women the right to vote in municipal councils in 1952. Women were also granted equal rights with men when a new social insurance code was ratified by the Majles in 1953, which also gave maternity leave and benefits and disability allowances " 

 

Canada didn't introduce maternity leave until 1971

Australia didn't introduce maternity leave until 1973.

 

Do you believe that if the British and CIA didn't illegally intervene in a sovereign nations affairs, in this case Iran, the Mullahs wouldn't be in charge right now ?

[Super19]

26 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

The Palestinian people are in harms way because they elected and support Hamas as their leaders. Please tell me - people in Dresden in February 1945 were in harms way because of: a) Allied Forces; b) Nazi Germany leadership. That should clarify everything.

Hamas was elected a long time ago. Only a max of 8% of Gaza+West Bank's current population could/would have voted for Hamas way back when. That's a staggering amount of people in harms way that had no part in electing Hamas. Support is only gaining traction for Hamas in Gaza because, well, right now the IDF look worse to Gazans than Hamas ever did. And Hamas is no government, and I don't see Palestinian people electing terrorists as their government if/when Palestine ever gets its' statehood/freedom.  

[Ilunga]

15 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Hamas has attacked and attacked and attacked and attacked: if it stays in power in Gaza there will be future murders of peaceful folks like at the Peace Festival. 

I think the people of Gaza could hand over hamas pretty easily if they choose to do so. 

At this day in the war, a little over 100 days, I don't see that the cost is too high yet. In the past few weeks in fact, there has been much less of the Gazan civilians lives lost, to stop now is just dumb. Finish the job with as few casualties as possible for a MUCH more stable future for Gaza and for Israel. The worst of it is done, why quit when there is just a little mopping up left to do? Wouldn't that be more callous about the lives already lost, if israel stopped on the 10 yard line, rather than go for the touchdown that will end the game?

 

also: my Niece goes to those kinds of festivals, it could have just as easily have been her on Oct 7th. Since you asked. 

 

And Isreal keeps taking land, keeps taking land, keeps taking land.

 

You honestly believe an unarmed population can challenge a bunch of what many claim are well armed fanatics ? 

If I was there with my family my only priority, like any sane person, would be to try and keep them safe.

 

 

The worst of it is done  ?

Mopping up to do ?

There is talk by Isreali defence officials that this conflict could go on for another year 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/07/israel-says-gaza-fighting-could-last-a-year-amplifying-fears-of-regional-war

 

The figures I have read in relation to Hamas fighters is that have between 20- 25,000, this article states 30,000, IDF officials claiming 8-9000 killed, not even a third. 

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/live-blog/israel-hamas-war-live-updates-rcna132421

 

 

 

Being a parent like myself doesn't it make you cry when you see the images of children killed and wounded ? 

I saw a father holding the blood soaked body of his daughter yesterday, PBS Newshour, I cried.

Admittedly I am an emotional person.

However I know what is right.

Killing innocent/ unharmed women and children is not right. 

 

 

I am very glad your daughter wasn't at that festival.

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

I condemn all that. Even what @RomanPer accounted from his experiences in 2005. Tragic.

What do you think I should change my mind on? For clarity, I don't think anything justifies what Israel has been doing the past 100 days - this is NOT the way.

 

What if nothing else can rid Gaza of Hamas and Iran?

[Ilunga]

36 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

The Palestinian people are in harms way because they elected and support Hamas as their leaders. Please tell me - people in Dresden in February 1945 were in harms way because of: a) Allied Forces; b) Nazi Germany leadership. That should clarify everything.

 

Actually this, the fire bombing of Dresden,  is something I can talk about from a sorta personal perspective.

My father who was the kindest most gentle man I have ever  known, lived through the fire bombing of Coventry.

He like many British people considered the fire bombing of Dresden as kinda payback. 

 

Have you ever read Slaughter House 5 ? 

 

And do you know where Vonnegut was during the firebombing ?

He was an allied POW that was imprisoned in Dresden and lived through that firebombing 

 

Every one should read this book.

 

Poo-tee-weet 

[RomanPer]

21 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Actually this, the fire bombing of Dresden,  is something I can talk about from a sorta personal perspective.

My father who was the kindest most gentle man I have ever  known, lived through the fire bombing of Coventry.

He like many British people considered the fire bombing of Dresden as kinda payback. 

 

Have you ever read Slaughter House 5 ? 

 

And do you know where Vonnegut was during the firebombing ?

He was an allied POW that was imprisoned in Dresden and lived through that firebombing 

 

Every one should read this book.

 

Poo-tee-weet 

 

I don't mean to poo-poo on your perspective, it's just taking this specific question in the wrong direction. Hope you understand. I'm really curious to know who @Super19 thinks is to blame for Dresden bombing in 1945. Based on his logic, it must be British, not hitler.

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

I don't mean to poo-poo on your perspective, it's just taking this specific question in the wrong direction. Hope you understand. I'm really curious to know who @Super19 thinks is to blame for Dresden bombing in 1945. Based on his logic, it must be British, not hitler.

 

Vonnegut uses the words Poo-tee-weet as a kinda metaphor, the whole book being a testament to the futility and stupidity of war. 

 

As for blame, some do consider it this a war crime.

I used to discuss this as an idealistic teenager, with not a lot of wisdom, with my father, who as I stated lived through the fire bombing of Coventry, and was severely wounded on  D-day. 

 

What is a fact is that Arthur " Bomber " Harris the chief of RAF bomber command to quote the article below 

 

" He and other allied strategists were frustrated by the relative failures of the precision bombing raids and advocated massive area bombardments to kill civilians and shatter the enemies will. Harris was completely open and unashamed about this "

 

 

https://www.history.co.uk/article/was-the-destruction-of-dresden-an-allied-war-crime

 

It's up to each individual to decide in their own minds what is right or wrong.

 

I believe the Nietzsche quote I used sums it up.

[Canuck Surfer]

18 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Arpartheid

 

" A policy or system of segragation or discrimination against on the grounds of race " 

 

I don't see it. 

 

Gazans, 15,000 a day used to cross the border every day to work in Israel. Where they were allowed to work, many professional's, others just workers in plants, hospitals, offices. At 1st world wages which almost exclusively could not be achieved. Additionally, there are 2,000,000 permanent resident or citizen combinations of Arab & specifically Lebanese living with all rights and privileges in Israel. Israel left Gaza willingly, withdrew all its citizens, even forced relocation on its citizens to leave.

 

Not just Jewish, but virtually all peoples unspecific to the Palestinian Sunni Muslim dialects of this area's religion, any minority are discriminated, eliminated. Or weeded out if we're being more polite, in any case have to leave? Racial backgrounds have a small minority of long homesteaded Christians. Plus a community of 400 residents, Arab Samaritans, near Nablus in the West Bank. That is it! There is almost no ethnic diversity at all?  What sounds more like Apartheid? Add to it, conformity, the right to an opinion, political position is highly questionable. Control of govt. operations & administration, has largely been won in Palestinian groups by gangs of militia, originating & operating from controlled packs or tribes in the dark corners of mosques & male only coffee & hookah bars. Then these groups compete or create alliances with each other to eliminate any and all opposition to the conclusion of complete dominance. 

 

There are no minorities with any standing. Leaders like Yahya Sinwar arrested by foreign entities for hand strangling opposition? What sounds more like Apartheid.

________________________________

 

West Bank; there is certainly a bigger debate, way bigger. 

 

Part of the debate, rarely if ever acknowledged in Free Palestine presentations, is that this territory has been offered as part of a Palestinian state, combined with the territory relinquished in Gaza. I freely admit, have done so constantly plus, on an ongoing basis, called out that there are much larger illegal activities by Israelis' in the West Bank. Yet also crimes, ESPECIALLY now, up to and including war crimes invading Gaza.  Historically, and currently, in contesting Islamic forces on essentially all surrounding borders, including in the Occupied West Bank. I am in particular, vehemently opposed to Israeli settlements and developments taking over territories in occupied zones. Even more opposed to rampages by radicals and settler violence, heavy handed policing, shoot on site orders. A general specific lack of of justice or investigation when violence, even targeted killings occur by Mossad or IDF.   

 

Comments like''How would I feel if'' presume I am ignorant to such facts. That I should be compelled to side out, switch serve?  

 

The same culture of dominance to the exclusion minorities by Palestinians, overwhelmed by Hamas, exists in West Bank. It exists by those entities that fight for control over Hezbollah, Houthi, Al-Shabaab, the Arab Ba'ath party in Syria, ISIS, SAF & RAF in Sudan, the Kingdom in SA, ISIL, PKK, Taliban, Islamic Republic etc, etc, etc.. Countries like Turkey continue to expand their dominance internally. Groups like Kurds & Yazidi victimized to be exterminated in mass killings, human trafficked and sex slaves for their fighters like ISIL dominating them. Countries like Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Pakistan in seemingly a constant flux of civil war, or disobedience while their minorities continue to disappear. This is why Apartheid is propaganda for Palestinians IMO; Pot calling the kettle black.  

 

Israel is completely surrounded by territories and countries controlled by militant groups and Armies. Begging my way back to the 'local' discussion in West Bank? The groups in the above mentioned places provide black market arms, human trading in militia, militant training & supplies, funding to groups like Hamas, but also Hezbollah. Rockets are launched in to civilian sites in Israel, any target they can hit for that matter, from the West Bank, and Gaza for that matter. For all debate about Palestine being Palestine. Jerusalem held a Jewish majority pre-1948, pre-WWI. Jerusalem is historically a multi cultural city. Marauding RW nutbags from Israel aside, restrictions on places like Al Aqsa are terrible.  Yet considering behaviour, reasonable & necessary in at least concept. The number of militant activities, suicide bomb attacks, rockets, serious security risks has been a legitimate concern. Up to and including Hamas instigating wars now 4 times since 2005, including when offered a permanent state solution that included West Bank & East Jerusalem as its capital.

 

Look at what happened in Afghanistan; the centuries old Buddhas of Bamiyan were destroyed. Muslims ask that they receive exclusive & ever yielding rights to Al Aqsa, yet would completely dismiss the West Wall, the Jewish quarter.  Pogroms and attempts to take over these places started as soon as the Ottoman empire started to diminish. 

 

Jewish behaviour is hardly the only issue as much as it is repugnant. My, read that, my opinion, is that Israel is much closer to an inclusive society. Is closer to one where justice is possible. Jewish people in Israel have bomb shelters, grown up to understand air raid sirens. Most have served mandatory service in the IDF, have known friends to be shot, or stabbed, killed in wars, lost limbs. Not to mention their own Holocaust history, sense of needing space, security. A society that has also been constantly victimized. There is going to be a degree of indifference, which all things being moral, should not be there.

 

It leads to that tolerance indifference, which again should not be there, when a Palestinian youth in Hebron, or East Jerusalem is hot. A routine occurrence. Or Shireen Abu Akleh is assassinated. No investigation occurs?  When a Yoav Gallant is not only elected; but his meathead radical compatriots try to profit by doing the Occupied Territory settlements that I have condemned. He should be in jail. There are those in Israel who's views move past indifference to indignance. Completely disregard others & indiscriminately would take over whatever they can; exactly like the ongoing and repeat abuse of ALL MINORITIES by almost all surrounding militant regimes.    

 

I don't believe any but a minority of Israelis' would want to take over Gaza, Hebron, South Lebanon, settle them. They do exist and yield some power. I believe most just want their security. They would be wise to vote out, weed out such radicals, call them to justice.  Have them lose their investments, their assets seized for illegal activities. Not 'overhaul' their justice system to allow it. Israel should move to be accountable for these crimes, some justice served!

 

I have zero confidence Hamas as a majority would simply accept security as a resolve as most in Israel would.  Is that a fair summary @RomanPer ? Nor their allies, cough their string pulling masters who domain over them as proxy governors. Be accountable to justice after they plan events like Oct 7. Move on to govern and enrich their people, leave Israel to their peace.

 

So I conclude Israel is not the bigger problem. They have a right to be there, a balance just being the issue.

[Canuck Surfer]

34 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I don't mean to poo-poo on your perspective, it's just taking this specific question in the wrong direction. Hope you understand. I'm really curious to know who @Super19 thinks is to blame for Dresden bombing in 1945. Based on his logic, it must be British, not hitler.

 

If we are being honest?

 

The firebombing of Dresden, like annihilation of Nagasaki & Hiroshima are easily, easily argued war crimes. Even if the wars were not instigated by said perpetrators.

 

 It is a debate anyway. Of course the debate can descend to hell! How else dyu get rid of 'em?

 

And descend to disrepute. Mariupol had to be bombed to eliminate Nazi's also...

[Ilunga]

Just now, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I don't see it. 

 

Gazans, 15,000 a day used to cross the border every day to work in Israel. Where they were allowed to work, many professional's, others just workers in plants, hospitals, offices. At 1st world wages which almost exclusively could not be achieved. Additionally, there are 2,000,000 permanent resident or citizen combinations of Arab & specifically Lebanese living with all rights and privileges in Israel. Israel left Gaza willingly, withdrew all its citizens, even forced relocation on its citizens to leave.

 

Not just Jewish, but virtually all peoples unspecific to the Palestinian Sunni Muslim dialects of this area's religion, any minority are discriminated, eliminated. Or weeded out if we're being more polite, in any case have to leave? Racial backgrounds have a small minority of long homesteaded Christians. Plus a community of 400 residents, Arab Samaritans, near Nablus in the West Bank. That is it! There is almost no ethnic diversity at all?  What sounds more like Apartheid? Add to it, conformity, the right to an opinion, political position is highly questionable. Control of govt. operations & administration, has largely been won in Palestinian groups by gangs of militia, originating & operating from controlled packs or tribes in the dark corners of mosques & male only coffee & hookah bars. Then these groups compete or create alliances with each other to eliminate any and all opposition to the conclusion of complete dominance. 

 

There are no minorities with any standing. Leaders like Yahya Sinwar arrested by foreign entities for hand strangling opposition? What sounds more like Apartheid.

________________________________

 

West Bank; there is certainly a bigger debate, way bigger. 

 

Part of the debate, rarely if ever acknowledged in Free Palestine presentations, is that this territory has been offered as part of a Palestinian state, combined with the territory relinquished in Gaza. I freely admit, have done so constantly plus, on an ongoing basis, called out that there are much larger illegal activities by Israelis' in the West Bank. Yet also crimes, ESPECIALLY now, up to and including war crimes invading Gaza.  Historically, and currently, in contesting Islamic forces on essentially all surrounding borders, including in the Occupied West Bank. I am in particular, vehemently opposed to Israeli settlements and developments taking over territories in occupied zones. Even more opposed to rampages by radicals and settler violence, heavy handed policing, shoot on site orders. A general specific lack of of justice or investigation when violence, even targeted killings occur by Mossad or IDF.   

 

Comments like''How would I feel if'' presume I am ignorant to such facts. That I should be compelled to side out, switch serve?  

 

The same culture of dominance to the exclusion minorities by Palestinians, overwhelmed by Hamas, exists in West Bank. It exists by those entities that fight for control over Hezbollah, Houthi, Al-Shabaab, the Arab Ba'ath party in Syria, ISIS, SAF & RAF in Sudan, the Kingdom in SA, ISIL, PKK, Taliban, Islamic Republic etc, etc, etc.. Countries like Turkey continue to expand their dominance internally. Groups like Kurds & Yazidi victimized to be exterminated in mass killings, human trafficked and sex slaves for their fighters like ISIL dominating them. Countries like Libya, Egypt, Syria, Yemen, Pakistan in seemingly a constant flux of civil war, or disobedience while their minorities continue to disappear. This is why Apartheid is propaganda for Palestinians IMO; Pot calling the kettle black.  

 

Israel is completely surrounded by territories and countries controlled by militant groups and Armies. Begging my way back to the 'local' discussion in West Bank? The groups in the above mentioned places provide black market arms, human trading in militia, militant training & supplies, funding to groups like Hamas, but also Hezbollah. Rockets are launched in to civilian sites in Israel, any target they can hit for that matter, from the West Bank, and Gaza for that matter. For all debate about Palestine being Palestine. Jerusalem held a Jewish majority pre-1948, pre-WWI. Jerusalem is historically a multi cultural city. Marauding RW nutbags from Israel aside, restrictions on places like Al Aqsa are terrible.  Yet considering behaviour, reasonable & necessary in at least concept. The number of militant activities, suicide bomb attacks, rockets, serious security risks has been a legitimate concern. Up to and including Hamas instigating wars now 4 times since 2005, including when offered a permanent state solution that included West Bank & East Jerusalem as its capital.

 

Look at what happened in Afghanistan; the centuries old Buddhas of Bamiyan were destroyed. Muslims ask that they receive exclusive & ever yielding rights to Al Aqsa, yet would completely dismiss the West Wall, the Jewish quarter.  Pogroms and attempts to take over these places started as soon as the Ottoman empire started to diminish. 

 

Jewish behaviour is hardly the only issue as much as it is repugnant. My, read that, my opinion, is that Israel is much closer to an inclusive society. Is closer to one where justice is possible. Jewish people in Israel have bomb shelters, grown up to understand air raid sirens. Most have served mandatory service in the IDF, have known friends to be shot, or stabbed, killed in wars, lost limbs. Not to mention their own Holocaust history, sense of needing space, security. A society that has also been constantly victimized. There is going to be a degree of indifference, which all things being moral, should not be there.

 

It leads to that tolerance indifference, which again should not be there, when a Palestinian youth in Hebron, or East Jerusalem is hot. A routine occurrence. Or Shireen Abu Akleh is assassinated. No investigation occurs?  When a Yoav Gallant is not only elected; but his meathead radical compatriots try to profit by doing the Occupied Territory settlements that I have condemned. He should be in jail. There are those in Israel who's views move past indifference to indignance. Completely disregard others & indiscriminately would take over whatever they can; exactly like the ongoing and repeat abuse of ALL MINORITIES by almost all surrounding militant regimes.    

 

I don't believe any but a minority of Israelis' would want to take over Gaza, Hebron, South Lebanon, settle them. They do exist and yield some power. I believe most just want their security. They would be wise to vote out, weed out such radicals, call them to justice.  Have them lose their investments, their assets seized for illegal activities. Not 'overhaul' their justice system to allow it. Israel should move to be accountable for these crimes, some justice served!

 

I have zero confidence Hamas as a majority would simply accept security as a resolve as most in Israel would.  Is that a fair summary @RomanPer ? Nor their allies, cough their string pulling masters who domain over them as proxy governors. Be accountable to justice after they plan events like Oct 7. Move on to govern and enrich their people, leave Israel to their peace.

 

So I conclude Israel is not the bigger problem. They have a right to be there, a balance just being the issue.

 

And there were some black south Africans that enjoyed the same privileges as the whites while SA practiced arpartheid on their fellow black south Africans.

 

All I am stating is that not only do human rights bodies within Isreal and also international bodies state that Isreal practices arpartheid, but also many Isrealis themselves.

 

Again, why do they do this ? 

 

As for Isreal being an inclusive society, it is heading the way of the US, the right wing government is  

trying to take away the rights of women and the LGBTQ community 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2023-07-23/ty-article-opinion/.premium/israels-government-has-declared-a-war-on-women/00000189-8304-d7f1-abbd-cffdf4610000

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/lgbtq-israelis-describe-being-shunned-by-global-community-after-october-7/0000018c-f92a-dd94-a9cc-fbee4d680000

 

 

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/dec/22/israel-lgbtq-community-fear-future-far-right-government

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

As for Isreal being an inclusive society, it is heading the way of the US, the right wing government is  

trying to take away the rights of women and the LGBTQ community 

Dont confuse issues.

 

The US & Israel, Donald Trump & Netanyahu not shining examples, are easily more inclusive than Islamic militant societies. That argument should not stop the prosecution of anyone's persecution. An I'm with sh!thead argument IMO, not I'm with stupid...

 

Oh, please cover your face before you walk outside? LGTBQ exit stage left off the nearest building in Gaza. 

 

Never mind, maybe some would like a personal invite to perform for Kadryov;

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/kadyrov-bakayev-antigay-honor-killing-singer-chechnya/28983059.html

 

At least said performer would walk out alive in an audience with Bibi & Don Don.

[Ilunga]

17 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Dont confuse issues.

 

The US & Israel, Donald Trump & Netanyahu not shining examples, are easily more inclusive than Islamic militant societies. That argument should not stop the prosecution of anyone's persecution. An I'm with sh!thead argument IMO, not I'm with stupid...

 

Oh, please cover your face before you walk outside? LGTBQ exit stage left off the nearest building in Gaza. 

 

Never mind, maybe some would like a personal invite to perform for Kadryov;

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/kadyrov-bakayev-antigay-honor-killing-singer-chechnya/28983059.html

 

At least said performer would walk out alive in an audience with Bibi & Don Don.

 

Alright I will stop confusing the issue.

 

I simply ask the same question I have now asked several times and nobody's wants to answer.

 

Why do international human rights bodies and human rights bodies within Isreal and many Isrealis themselves, some very prominent ones, state that Isreal is practising arpartheid on the Palestinian people ?

What is their motivation for doing this  ?

 

As for the, cover your face comment , the footage I am watching out of Gaza, I have never seen a women with her face covered.

 

As for Iran l, refer to my post about Iran, maybe if the British and Americans didn't help overthrow a democratically elected government in Iran, the women there wouldn't be forced to cover their faces when they go outside.

Edited January 18 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Alflives said:

Thanks for pointing out the truth. It’s sad how propaganda uses bits of truth to lure in people. 

 

Yes, like people falling for BS propaganda like the Hamas throwing people of rooftops. 

 

I posted the factual information about this and yet nobody has acknowledged it.

[Super19]

""The results of the investigation: Ron was indeed murdered Not by Hamas Think more in the direction of Auschwitz and the showers but without Nazis and without Hamas as the cause Not an accidental shooting Not friendly fire Premeditated murder Bombs with poisonous gasses Ron was kidnapped because of the criminal negligence of all the senior military and damned government officials who gave an order to eliminate him in order to settle a score with some terrorist from Jabaliya. Oh yes, and they also found that he also had several crushed fingers, apparently due to his desperate attempts to get out of the poison grave that the IDF buried him in when he tried to breathe air but breathed only IDF poison. My love.. May I die in your place.. What a nightmare you went through! Death in terrible agony! And all at the behest of the Israel Defense Forces, which you trusted and appreciated so much, and the government cabinet. There is no future for this country if this is what they did to you after they abandoned you that Shabbat. What was the decision if Bibi's son was there in the terrorist's tunnel or Gallant's grandson?? Or the son of Herzi Halevi? Would they also have been poisoned with gas bombs?"

 

 

That's what the mother said. Below is the IDF version:

 

 

 

[Super19]

27 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, like people falling for BS propaganda like the Hamas throwing people of rooftops. 

 

I posted the factual information about this and yet nobody has acknowledged it.

Nobody knew Hamas was throwing people off rooftops before they knew that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

"JOE BIDEN KEEPS REPEATING HIS FALSE CLAIM THAT HE SAW PICTURES OF BEHEADED BABIES

Many atrocities were committed during the Hamas-led attacks on October 7. Yet the president of the United States continues to repeat debunked falsehoods.

ON OCTOBER 11, four days after the Hamas-led attacks in Israel, President Joe Biden addressed a group of Jewish community leaders in the Indian Treaty Room of the Executive Office Building in Washington, D.C. “I’ve been doing this a long time,” Biden said. “I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.”

It was a jarring statement. And it was false.

Biden had seen no such pictures, nor received any such confirmation. He made those comments after Nicole Zedeck, a journalist for Israel’s i24 News, reported that 40 babies had been decapitated, citing Israeli soldiers at the scene of the attacks at Kfar Aza. A spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu subsequently stated that babies and toddlers had been found with their “heads decapitated.”

Three hours later, Biden promoted the claim to the world and asserted he personally saw pictures of the horrifying scene, giving the story supreme legitimacy."

https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false/

[Super19]

 

[Ilunga]

19 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Nobody knew Hamas was throwing people off rooftops before they knew that Hamas beheaded 40 babies. 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2023/10/13/watching-the-watchdogs-babies-and-truth-die-together-in-israel-palestine

"JOE BIDEN KEEPS REPEATING HIS FALSE CLAIM THAT HE SAW PICTURES OF BEHEADED BABIES

Many atrocities were committed during the Hamas-led attacks on October 7. Yet the president of the United States continues to repeat debunked falsehoods.

ON OCTOBER 11, four days after the Hamas-led attacks in Israel, President Joe Biden addressed a group of Jewish community leaders in the Indian Treaty Room of the Executive Office Building in Washington, D.C. “I’ve been doing this a long time,” Biden said. “I never really thought that I would see and have confirmed pictures of terrorists beheading children.”

It was a jarring statement. And it was false.

Biden had seen no such pictures, nor received any such confirmation. He made those comments after Nicole Zedeck, a journalist for Israel’s i24 News, reported that 40 babies had been decapitated, citing Israeli soldiers at the scene of the attacks at Kfar Aza. A spokesperson for Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu subsequently stated that babies and toddlers had been found with their “heads decapitated.”

Three hours later, Biden promoted the claim to the world and asserted he personally saw pictures of the horrifying scene, giving the story supreme legitimacy."

https://theintercept.com/2023/12/14/israel-biden-beheaded-babies-false/

 

Kinda Ironic that Biden held that meeting in the " indian treaty " room.

They broke a few of them, then Congress passed a law in 1871, 25 U.S.C 71, that prohibited the US government entering into additional treaties with the Indian tribes.

 

Kinda sounds familiar doesn't.

Guess the American Indians were terrorists back then for fighting to defend the land they had lived on for far back as 30,000 years ago, the first time people arrived in what is now known as the US.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, like people falling for BS propaganda like the Hamas throwing people of rooftops. 

 

I posted the factual information about this and yet nobody has acknowledged it.

[Alflives]

50 minutes ago, Super19 said:

""The results of the investigation: Ron was indeed murdered Not by Hamas Think more in the direction of Auschwitz and the showers but without Nazis and without Hamas as the cause Not an accidental shooting Not friendly fire Premeditated murder Bombs with poisonous gasses Ron was kidnapped because of the criminal negligence of all the senior military and damned government officials who gave an order to eliminate him in order to settle a score with some terrorist from Jabaliya. Oh yes, and they also found that he also had several crushed fingers, apparently due to his desperate attempts to get out of the poison grave that the IDF buried him in when he tried to breathe air but breathed only IDF poison. My love.. May I die in your place.. What a nightmare you went through! Death in terrible agony! And all at the behest of the Israel Defense Forces, which you trusted and appreciated so much, and the government cabinet. There is no future for this country if this is what they did to you after they abandoned you that Shabbat. What was the decision if Bibi's son was there in the terrorist's tunnel or Gallant's grandson?? Or the son of Herzi Halevi? Would they also have been poisoned with gas bombs?"

 

 

That's what the mother said. Below is the IDF version:

 

 

 

So Hamas was hiding behind hostages? Were they using hostages as human shield while hiding in their tunnels under hospitals and schools?

IMHAO the day can’t come soon enough that all these Hamas cowards are eliminated. These are seriously bad people. 

[Super19]

10 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Kinda Ironic that Biden held that meeting in the " indian treaty " room.

They broke a few of them, then Congress passed a law in 1871, 25 U.S.C 71, that prohibited the US government entering into additional treaties with the Indian tribes.

 

Kinda sounds familiar doesn't.

Guess the American Indians were terrorists back then for fighting to defend the land they had lived on for far back as 30,000 years ago, the first time people arrived in what is now known as the US.

This rap by Immortal Technique released in 2003 is still so relevant today. I bolded the line I think you'd like:

 

"How could this be, the land of the free, home of the brave?
Indigenous holocaust, and the home of the slaves
Corporate America, dancin' offbeat to the rhythm
You really think this country, never sponsored terrorism?
Human rights violations, we continue the saga
El Savador and the contras in Nicaragua
And on top of that, you still want to take me to prison
Just cause I won't trade humanity for patriotism"

 

They want to rearrange the whole point of view of the ghetto
The fourth branch of the government, want us to settle
A bandana full of glittering, generality
Fighting for freedom and fighting terror, but what's reality?
Read about the history of the place that we live in
And stop letting corporate news tell lies to your children

 

Flow like the blood of Abraham through the Jews and the Arabs
Broken apart like a woman's heart, abused in a marriage
The brink of holy war, bottled up, like a miscarriage
Embedded correspondents don't tell the source of the tension
And they refuse to even mention, European intervention
Or the massacres in Jenin, the innocent screams
U.S. manufactured missles, and M-16's
Weapon contracts and corrupted American dreams
Media censorship, blocking out the video screens
A continent of oil kingdoms, bought for a bargain
Democracy is just a word, when the people are starvin'
The average citizen, made to be, blind to the reason
A desert full of genocide, where the bodies are freezin'
And the world doesn't believe that you fightin' for freedom
Cause you fucked the Middle East, and gave birth to a demon
It's open season with the CIA, bugging my crib
Trapped in a ghetto region like a Palestinian kid
Where nobody gives a fuck whether you die or you live
I'm tryin' to give the truth, and I know the price is my life
But when I'm gone they'll sing a song about Immortal Technique
Who beheaded the President, and the princes and sheiks
You don't give a fuck about us, I can see through your facade
Like a fallen angel standing in the presence of God
Bitch niggaz scared of the truth, when it looks at you hard

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Dont confuse issues.

 

The US & Israel, Donald Trump & Netanyahu not shining examples, are easily more inclusive than Islamic militant societies. That argument should not stop the prosecution of anyone's persecution. An I'm with sh!thead argument IMO, not I'm with stupid...

 

Oh, please cover your face before you walk outside? LGTBQ exit stage left off the nearest building in Gaza. 

 

Never mind, maybe some would like a personal invite to perform for Kadryov;

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/kadyrov-bakayev-antigay-honor-killing-singer-chechnya/28983059.html

 

At least said performer would walk out alive in an audience with Bibi & Don Don.

 

Gotta quote this again.

 

Watched Joe Bell last night, SBS has a festival of true stories/ movies.

 

Joe's son committed suicide because he was bullied for being gay.

Joe then embarked on a " walk " across America, 6 months into this he was killed by a driver that went to sleep at the wheel.

He even states himself that he didn't deal with his son coming out well.

Right at the end of his Journey he meets a sheriff whose own son was gay. The sheriff told Joe that his dad who was an ex marine dealt with the news better than he did. 

 

A movie we all should watch.

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

 

What does this mean Alf 

 

Did you miss this 

 

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/

 

 

https://fullfact.org/news/video-islamic-state-execution-not-hamas/

 

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.347B339

 

 

So no, Hamas did not throw people of roofs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What does this mean Alf 

 

Did you miss this 

 

https://www.reuters.com/fact-check/video-people-thrown-roof-shows-punishment-by-is-not-hamas-2023-12-14/

 

 

https://fullfact.org/news/video-islamic-state-execution-not-hamas/

 

 

https://factcheck.afp.com/doc.afp.com.347B339

 

 

So no, Hamas did not throw people of roofs. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Alflives said:

 

So you mock me for posting the truth.

That's alright, I don't mind. 

 

 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So you mock me for posting the truth.

That's alright, I don't mind. 

 

 

Alf is supporting your ideas. 

Edited January 18 by Alflives