Hamas attacking Israel

[Elias Pettersson]

3 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

If you can't tell the difference between the state of Israel and the Jewish population, I don't know what to tell you. Read a book.

I’ve read lots of books. I know the difference. The State of Israel shouldn’t even exist according to you. 
 

But from what I remember in reading books the British gave up their land to Israel. So a state was formed. Are you saying this never happened?  Why do you think the Israelis don’t deserve their own state?  Even the other posters agree that a two state nation is the only solution. You seem to be the only with a different opinion on that. Why is that? 

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Guntrix said:

Maybe. But this is also an intent to demonize one side. Again, with a conflict as complex as Israel-Palestine, we can't be this ignorant. Not unless we have concrete proof.

And a lot of your posts have been up demonize the other side.  Roman has just as much of a right to comment as you do, and has access to sources that present a language barrier for most of us.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

I’ve read lots of books. I know the difference. The State of Israel shouldn’t even exist according to you. 
 

But from what I remember in reading books the British gave up their land to Israel. So a state was formed. Are you saying this never happened?  Why do you think the Israelis don’t deserve their own state?  Even the other posters agree that a two state nation is the only solution. You seem to be the only with a different opinion on that. Why is that? 

 

Palestine wasn't British land. It was a League of Nations mandate. 

 

Here is the League of Nations definition of what they intended by mandate:

 

"administrative advice and assistance by a Mandatory until such time as they are able to stand alone"

 

So given that this was the legal status of the land - do you think that it was within Britain's legal right to allow a foreign population to come in and conquer the land by method of ethnic cleansing from villages and towns?

[Guntrix]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’ve read lots of books. I know the difference. The State of Israel shouldn’t even exist according to you. 
 

But from what I remember in reading books the British gave up their land to Israel. So a state was formed. Are you saying this never happened?  Why do you think the Israelis don’t deserve their own state?  Even the other posters agree that a two state nation is the only solution. You seem to be the only with a different opinion on that. Why is that? 

Wasn't British land buddy. Britain divided the land. 

[Guntrix]

3 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

And a lot of your posts have been up demonize the other side.  Roman has just as much of a right to comment as you do, and has access to sources that present a language barrier for most of us.

An affirmation saying that Wagner participated is alike to myself saying that ISIS supported Israel. Absolutely wacko.

 

At least I base my arguments on historical agreements and events. 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

I appreciate you for your questions and discussions @Elias Pettersson I apologize if Im getting emotional

 

 

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Can you give me a date on when those 750,000 people actually owned their homes and the land sitting on it?  Like their names were on the title certificate. 

 

Like really brother ? 

 

Are you serious ? 

 

You do realise that the people who resided for hundreds of years in what is now known as Palestine/ Israel  were peasants of the Ottoman Empire. 

 

Sigh.

 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Like really brother ? 

 

Are you serious ? 

 

You do realise that the people who resided for hundreds of years in what is now known as Palestine/ Israel  were peasants of the Ottoman Empire. 

 

Sigh.

 

 

tbh im reading EPs posts like hes asking legit questions and hes hearing our points

 

which makes him 1/1000 people who are openminded enough to have this dialogue and actually listen

 

notice nobody else who's approaching this from the israeli perspective is coming with an open mind

 

its cathartic for these words to actually be heard and considered, it gives me hope

[Elias Pettersson]

19 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

I love you, and your hockey posts, and that youre open minded enough to engage fully here, so I hope this is coming across with the respect I intend

 

but this post reveals a significant knowledge gap about the actual events that took place in the 1940s and how the arab "Palestinians" ended up displaced

 

This wasn't a "legal process" by which British courts, or Palestinian Courts, or Israeli courts, calmly sorted through land titles. Irgun Lehi and other jewish paramilitary organizations poisoned village wells and burned over 500 villages to the ground, forcing Palestinians who didn't die to flee. 

 

Then in 1948 the new state of israel created the "law of return" which allowed any jewish person any where to come to Israel and build a home, and prevented who fled their homes to escape the violence from coming home (israel deemed them absentee landlords). 

 

It was straight robbery. 

I’m glad you love my hockey posts. It’s where I spend most of my time. I have alot of Jewish friends so that is why I am involved in this thread. 
 

I will concede that your knowledge of events from the 1940’s is greater than mine. I’m assuming neither one of us was alive back then, so we are using our own research and experiences from others in order to form conclusions. 
 

Let me ask you this. If the British owned the land in 1947 which is incontrovertible, then how did the Palestinians take over this same land if it was never given to them?  
 

Living on someone else’s land is much different than actually owning it. I understand that a lot of things went down in the 1940’s that were not “legal”. But at the end of the day the British offered 62% of their land to the Israelis who accepted the offer. 
 

Does this not justify the existence of the State of Israel?  Or am I way off base on this?  

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’ve read lots of books. I know the difference. The State of Israel shouldn’t even exist according to you. 
 

But from what I remember in reading books the British gave up their land to Israel. So a state was formed. Are you saying this never happened?  Why do you think the Israelis don’t deserve their own state?  Even the other posters agree that a two state nation is the only solution. You seem to be the only with a different opinion on that. Why is that? 

 

I have changed my mind.

 

I believe in a one state solution.

Where all are equal.

Where everyone has a voice. 

 

" And would it hurt to live in comfort, if you found someone to trust 

If you knew that you were with us, if we shared a common goal " 

Joey Cape 

[RomanPer]

21 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

He said there are signs, not that it happened.  At least he admits he doesn't have proof  yet.

 

Why even bother replying to him?

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

tbh im reading EPs posts like hes asking legit questions and hes hearing our points

 

which makes him 1/1000 people who are openminded enough to have this dialogue and actually listen

 

notice nobody else who's approaching this from the israeli perspective is coming with an open mind

 

its cathartic for these words to actually be heard and considered, it gives me hope

 I agree, Petey has the one thing I respect the most, a good heart.

 

People say that is my saving grace.

I am a bit nutty.

[Playoff Beered]

 

[Guntrix]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

Why even bother replying to him?

Because finding it easy enough to throw "Wagner" out there is dangerous. And even more so when you clearly don't have historical knowledge of the conflict. 

 

This new generation thinks that researching conflicts via TikTok educates them well enough to form opinions.

[RomanPer]

Just now, Playoff Beered said:

 

 

The best argument against the “apartheid” nonsense…

[Gnarcore]

47 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Can’t disagree with you on this. Israel is just like any other country, with its fair share of crazies and idiots. Yet the vast majority are nice people who just don’t want to be killed.

Which I think would go for large portions of the other side and really all sides everywhere. I've always wanted to go to Israel. One day I might. I don't know why but curvy Jewish brunettes are a weakness to me. Like I will think god damn! And THEN find out her cultural background...

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’m glad you love my hockey posts. It’s where I spend most of my time. I have alot of Jewish friends so that is why I am involved in this thread. 
 

I will concede that your knowledge of events from the 1940’s is greater than mine. I’m assuming neither one of us was alive back then, so we are using our own research and experiences from others in order to form conclusions. 
 

Let me ask you this. If the British owned the land in 1947 which is incontrovertible, then how did the Palestinians take over this same land if it was never given to them?  
 

Living on someone else’s land is much different than actually owning it. I understand that a lot of things went down in the 1940’s that were not “legal”. But at the end of the day the British offered 62% of their land to the Israelis who accepted the offer. 
 

Does this not justify the existence of the State of Israel?  Or am I way off base on this?  

 

What justifies the existence of Isreal is their right to have a home to call their own.

 

But so do Palestinians.

 

And around and around we go.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

I’m glad you love my hockey posts. It’s where I spend most of my time. I have alot of Jewish friends so that is why I am involved in this thread. 
 

I will concede that your knowledge of events from the 1940’s is greater than mine. I’m assuming neither one of us was alive back then, so we are using our own research and experiences from others in order to form conclusions. 
 

Let me ask you this. If the British owned the land in 1947 which is incontrovertible, then how did the Palestinians take over this same land if it was never given to them?  
 

Living on someone else’s land is much different than actually owning it. I understand that a lot of things went down in the 1940’s that were not “legal”. But at the end of the day the British offered 62% of their land to the Israelis who accepted the offer. 
 

Does this not justify the existence of the State of Israel?  Or am I way off base on this?  

 

Its a fair question - but the question I'd ask you is, as a home owner in Canada, who owns your land - Canada, or you?

 

If America conquered Canada tomorrow, do we as home owners lose the right to our homes, to the extent that the American government has a right to shove us all into Point Roberts and bring in some Californians to live in our homes?

 

The UN declaration of human rights enshrines the right to private property. If the British wanted to remove and replace the local residents, they would have had to enter into negotiations with those people. I don't think that fleeing a massacre constitutes "forfeiting" of property rights. In international law, but particularly in the case of a "mandate" which Palestine was, private property rights extend beyond change in government. 

 

This is why we recognize this land we live in today as unceded territory of the indigenous peoples that lived here before we arrived. Canada "conquering" the land and depopulating regions to make way for settlers was illegitimate and illegal. 

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Gnarcore said:

Which I think would go for large portions of the other side and really all sides everywhere. I've always wanted to go to Israel. One day I might. I don't know why but curvy Jewish brunettes are a weakness to me. Like I will think god damn! And THEN find out her cultural background...

 

Are you sure she would be interested in you? Israeli girls are feisty. After all, most of them go through the military service, you know  

[Guntrix]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

What justifies the existence of Isreal is their right to have a home to call their own.

 

But so do Palestinians.

 

And around and around we go.

If tomorrow a group considered it their right to have a home, does that make it okay for them to take over British Columbia? 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 I agree, Petey has the one thing I respect the most, a good heart.

 

People say that is my saving grace.

I am a bit nutty.

I am a child of God my brother. We are ALL children of God. This thread will drive some of us apart. Politics and Religion always do this. 
 

But one thing I will always concede is that I don’t have all of the answers and I will freely admit when I am wrong. 
 

I have even apologized many times to posters on CDC for some stupid remarks. I am a sinner. I don’t proclaim to be perfect. Neither is anyone else. 

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

tbh im reading EPs posts like hes asking legit questions and hes hearing our points

 

which makes him 1/1000 people who are openminded enough to have this dialogue and actually listen

 

notice nobody else who's approaching this from the israeli perspective is coming with an open mind

 

its cathartic for these words to actually be heard and considered, it gives me hope

 

That is generalization, but now that you mention it, how is the other side with open mindedness?

[eeeeeeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What justifies the existence of Isreal is their right to have a home to call their own.

 

But so do Palestinians.

 

And around and around we go.

 

To me what justifies the existence of Israel is exactly what you said + the fact that multiple generations have already been born in Israel. Those people did not commit the sins that their fathers did. They don't deserve to be evicted from their homes, regardless of what their fathers did to the local arab population. Israelis, like all of us, didn't choose where they were born. 

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Why even bother replying to him?

It pains me to see your insight discredited, my friend.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

That is generalization, but now that you mention it, how is the other side with open mindedness?

 

Sorry I should clarify - I haven't seen anybody else in this forum specifically engage and process the information presented by the palestinian side like EP has

 

Im openminded- but i am still waiting for someone to tell me exactly why it was ok for european and north american settlers to move into populated villages, burn them down, claim the land as their own, and then submit the dehomed population to apartheid conditions.