Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Let's not forget that in history there were indeed peaceful times where the Abrahmic religions enjoyed peace in the holy land. Jews and Muslims included.

 

It's not so long ago Iran was a special place. It's a shame what's happened to their government.

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

The 13 thousand or more civilian deaths, which are tragic, seems to be a recurring theme here, among the outraged, I just wanted to scoop something from the ten year war in Yemen between the Iran backed rebel group trying to seize power and the internationally recognized government of Yemen to put some measure of perspective to things.

182,000 babes dead for being the wrong kind of muslim, basically this comes down to Sunni or Shi'a affiliation in an admittedly crass one liner of an explanation.

No one was resoundingly outraged until probably right now as you read this. I know I am, it is disgusting, and has a ring of some form of Genocide to me. South Africa hasn't gone to the ICJ about Yemen though, weird isn't it?

 

I feel just a little bit insulted by this.

" No one was resoundingly outraged until probably right now as you read this "

 

I brought up the Humanitarian crisis in Yemen on the old board first in the war in Ukraine thread, where I was told by a poster if I cared that much I should start a thread about.

I thought that was a harsh reaction however I did create a thread.

 

https://forum.canucks.com/topic/408904-the-largest-humanitarian-crisis-on-this-planet/#comment-16931319

 

I was/ am not outraged, I am heart broken. 

No one apart from @Canuck Surfer 

@Gurn and @the destroyer of worlds bothered to comment on the situation there.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I would like the people who have acknowledged your post to acknowledge the truth about Isreal illegally taking land since then.

Taking land not due to war.

 

You may not like it; but this is not about you?

 

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

And I don't believe anyone has challenged the actual real history behind this this conflict. 

 

Look back to the beginning of this thread; there was plenty championing your cause; Moosehead and others. I miss him! It was a one way debate the other way then.

 

Watch the regular news.  There are people all over the world protesting Israel's role in the conflict.  Have since before the obliteration of Gaza 2 weeks after Oct 7.  Their activities are not invisible.  This information is not behind any veil. 

 

I equate it as similar to the protest movement of the 1970's. Students all over the world study this conflict. There is this new age, on top of college kids, in a world also educated by social media; source for all the current affairs. Feel its their responsibility to take a moral position. I also mentioned demographics & similar criteria in a previous post. If anything the Jewish side is easily the lesser heard in today's world. People cheering on bastions of Human Rights S Africa & the Houthis suggests so. While Brazil & North Korea pile on?

 

Palestinians are the underdogs, and most know their (side of this) story. 

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, StrayDog said:

I have only one question that needs to be answered before I think we can start questioning anything else in this conflict: When is Hamas going to release the remaining hostages?

 

So we can't question the amount of civilian, innocent women and children that are being killed in the name of eradicating Hamas ?

 

You want to talk about the hostages I totally agree, here is what one of the family members had to say yesterday 

 

" Liz Naftali an Aunt of 4 year old Abigail Idan, who was taken hostage and then later released, criticised Isreali Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that she was briefed that there were several deals regarding the release of the hostages and claimed the hold up was with his government.

 

She also claimed the Prime Minister wants the war to continue so he can stay in office " 

 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/families-hamas-hostages-call-lawmakers-securing-release/story?id=106452542

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You may not like it; but this is not about you?

 

 

Look back to the beginning of this thread; there was plenty championing your cause; Moosehead and others. I miss him! It was a one way debate the other way then.

 

Watch the regular news.  There are people all over the world protesting Israel's role in the conflict.  Have since before the obliteration of Gaza 2 weeks after Oct 7.  Their activities are not invisible.  This information is not behind any veil. 

 

I equate it as similar to the protest movement of the 1970's. Students all over the world study this conflict. There is this new age, on top of college kids, in a world also educated by social media; source for all the current affairs. Feel its their responsibility to take a moral position. I also mentioned demographics & similar criteria in a previous post. If anything the Jewish side is easily the lesser heard in today's world. People cheering on bastions of Human Rights S Africa & the Houthis suggests so. While Brazil & North Korea pile on?

 

Palestinians are the underdogs, and most know their (side of this) story. 

 

Please brother when I have made this " about me "

I don't accuse you of making it about you when you post your viewpoint. 

I don't make it personal with you.

 

I made the mistake of making it a bit personal with @Bob Long, for which I apologised.

 

 

I know what is going on all around the world however that has nothing to do with the discussion our community is having in this thread.

 

My point is nearly all of us condemn the October the 7th attacks and previous violence committed by Palestinians.

I have yet to see many of those same posters condemn the illegal settlements and the violence the settlers inflict on the Palestinians .

Some actually find reasons to defend these actions.

All violence should be condemned.

 

People make a accusations/ false claims, then confronted with the facts don't reply, admit they were wrong 

 

People being thrown of roofs, kids singing on telly, people indulging in mental gymnastics to deny Jews connection to Isreal.

 

I get it wrong, I man up admit I was wrong and move on.

 

[StrayDog]

24 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So we can't question the amount of civilian, innocent women and children that are being killed in the name of eradicating Hamas ?

 

You want to talk about the hostages I totally agree, here is what one of the family members had to say yesterday 

 

" Liz Naftali an Aunt of 4 year old Abigail Idan, who was taken hostage and then later released, criticised Isreali Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, saying that she was briefed that there were several deals regarding the release of the hostages and claimed the hold up was with his government.

 

She also claimed the Prime Minister wants the war to continue so he can stay in office " 

 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/families-hamas-hostages-call-lawmakers-securing-release/story?id=106452542

 

 

I never said we can't question the destruction and death following Oct 7. However, I feel that that the primary question to be answered is the hostages. Mostly because I believe nothing can go forward until they have been freed. They also seem to get forgotten in the back and forth arguments here over history and civilian casualties and which side is more at fault. The fact is the current situation happening in Palestine is directly tied to the hostages that Hamas took, and I think there is no resolution that does not begin with their release.

Edit: Also, I think your autocorrect is out of whack and you keep spelling Israel incorrectly? You are constantly typing Isreal.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 20 by StrayDog

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

I never said we can't question the destruction and death following Oct 7. However, I feel that that the primary question to be answered is the hostages. Mostly because I believe nothing can go forward until they have been freed. They also seem to get forgotten in the back and forth arguments here over history and civilian casualties and which side is more at fault. The fact is the current situation happening in Palestine is directly tied to the hostages that Hamas took, and I think there is no resolution that does not begin with their release.

 

And as I posted, one of the relatives of a hostage that has been released claims she has been briefed about the situation and she claims the hold up was with the Isreali government.

 

 

She also claims that Netanyahu wants this war to continue so he can stay in office.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me considering the state of affairs politically in Isreal before the October 7th attack. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

History illustrates that it was Arafat that made the first move to try and make peace with the Isrealis and did follow through.

Could he have done a better job, 100 percent he could have.

 

I have a huge amount of respect & time for this side of the topic.

 

Yes Arafat did, he also signed the accords.  Arafat even won a Nobel Peace Prize?  That's terrible; as gross as Henry Kissinger having done so, just my opinion.

 

Look back to his role in Black September.  Including in the kidnap & assassination of Olympic athletes in Munich 1972. Among other 'designed to create attention, sky jackings that took place throughout the world. Which led to their, the PO and any dissident leftover Jordanian citizens who fled the (Jordanian) West Bank in 1967 after the 1967 war. The militant and terrorist activity was not welcome, even in other Arabic / Palestinian states.

 

More to the point? 

 

How does a leader such as Arafat turn the corner & offer peace? He was a cold blooded killer. Look at the job the Taliban now has in front of it; their 2knd go round no less. Once virtually identical to Al Qaeda & ISIL; their goal was their sect would empower themselves as leaders of the Modern Middle East, ultimately the world.  Now they are, I'd say de facto but really they seized power militarily when the US abdicated, empowered as leaders of Afghanistan. After 40 years of supplying security and payola to local streets and gangs to earn their power? Now they have to manage the justice system, foreign policy. Make sure water and electricity stay on; Iran does not attack?

 

For the moment the Taliban is pretty busy trying to figure out the countries affairs.  Suddenly militant groups like Al Qaeda, or similar, I brought them as symbolic residents, hiding in their hills are a threat.  Not just something that creates chaos they can use for opportunity. Arafat is no different but those are just practical problems.

 

Running a gang of thugs, then telling them to put down their arms and behave while you establish police control? Let the govt take over the sources of income you helped them set up? Also used to syphon off the top! Take bonus payments in the back door for the oil companies you now own legally, in return for peace. You can blame Israel land grabs all you want.       

 

The reason Arafat's peace did not last was because he was murderer & a fucking crook! 

 

Don't believe me? Here are his (complicit) contemporaries.  Even Jordan kicked their ass out; the world should trust them now? Check this story from 2020, Abbas still apparently a US & UE nominee to retake power post Hamas; 

 

https://cufi.org/issue/palestinian-authority-and-fatah-honor-munich-massacre-terrorists-in-anniversary-posts/   @Super19 posts Israeli's cheering attacks in Gaza. What happens when even Palestine's opposition to Hammas is as dirty as this?

 

Terrorism

Palestinian Authority and Fatah Honor Munich Massacre Terrorists in Anniversary Posts

The Palestinian Authority (PA), and the PLO’s largest party, Fatah, on Thursday marked the anniversary of the “deaths as martyrs” of three terrorists who participated in the planning, kidnapping and murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, according to a report released by the watchdog group Palestinian Media Watch.

 

In a Facebook post, Palestinian Authority President and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas honored Mahmoud Yusuf al-Najjar, Kamal Nasser and Kamal Adwan, who were all senior members of the PLO and Black September in the 1970s.  

The three Black September terrorist were later assassinated by the Israeli Mossad in Beirut in April 1973 due to their involvement in the Munich Massacre.

 

Tawfiq Tirawi, a member of Fatah’s Central Committee, also commemorated Najjar, Nasser and Adwan as “leaders” who “redeemed Palestine with their souls” and understood “the value of self-sacrificing activity.”

 Other terrorists involved in the Munich Massacre have also been honored by the PA and Fatah in recent months, including in February, when Fatah saluted them by sharing a video that includes an infamous photo of a terrorist standing masked on the balcony of the Israeli athletes’ room in the Munich Olympic Village.

 Read More: Jerusalem Post

Edited January 20 by Canuck Surfer
word use mistake ceased / seized

[StrayDog]

9 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

And as I posted, one of the relatives of a hostage that has been released claims she has been briefed about the situation and she claims the hold up was with the Isreali government.

 

 

She also claims that Netanyahu wants this war to continue so he can stay in office.

 

That makes a lot of sense to me considering the state of affairs politically in Isreal before the October 7th attack. 

 

 

She claims, but she does not know. She is likely correct but I won't make a stance there. But I haven't seen any overtures from Hamas about their release; all I see from them is blaming the IDF for hostage deaths. While that might be true, I highly doubt that every dead hostage is the result of an Israeli bomb.

 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I have a huge amount of respect & time for this side of the topic.

 

Yes Arafat did, he also signed the accords.  Arafat even won a Nobel Peace Prize?  That's terrible; as gross as Henry Kissinger having done so, just my opinion.

 

Look back to his role in Black September.  Including in the kidnap & assassination of Olympic athletes in Munich 1972. Among other 'designed to create attention, sky jackings that took place throughout the world. Which led to their, the PO and any dissident leftover Jordanian citizens who fled the (Jordanian) West Bank in 1967 after the 1967 war. The militant and terrorist activity was not welcome, even in other Arabic / Palestinian states.

 

More to the point? 

 

How does a leader such as Arafat turn the corner & offer peace? He was a cold blooded killer. Look at the job the Taliban now has in front of it; their 2knd go round no less. Once virtually identical to Al Qaeda & ISIL; their goal was their sect would empower themselves as leaders of the Modern Middle East, ultimately the world.  Now they are, I'd say de facto but really they seized power militarily when the US abdicated, empowered as leaders of Afghanistan. After 40 years of supplying security and payola to local streets and gangs to earn their power? Now they have to manage the justice system, foreign policy. Make sure water and electricity stay on; Iran does not attack?

 

For the moment the Taliban is pretty busy trying to figure out the countries affairs.  Suddenly militant groups like Al Qaeda, or similar, I brought them as symbolic residents, hiding in their hills are a threat.  Not just something that creates chaos they can use for opportunity. Arafat is no different but those are just practical problems.

 

Running a gang of thugs, then telling them to put down their arms and behave while you establish police control? Let the govt take over the sources of income you helped them set up? Also used to syphon off the top! Take bonus payments in the back door for the oil companies you now own legally, in return for peace. You can blame Israel land grabs all you want.       

 

The reason Arafat's peace did not last was because he was murderer & a fucking crook! 

 

Don't believe me? Here are his (complicit) contemporaries.  Even Jordan kicked their ass out; the world should trust them now? Check this story from 2020, Abbas still apparently a US & UE nominee to retake power post Hamas; 

 

https://cufi.org/issue/palestinian-authority-and-fatah-honor-munich-massacre-terrorists-in-anniversary-posts/   @Super19 posts Israeli's cheering attacks in Gaza. What happens when even Palestine's opposition to Hammas is as dirty as this?

 

Terrorism

Palestinian Authority and Fatah Honor Munich Massacre Terrorists in Anniversary Posts

The Palestinian Authority (PA), and the PLO’s largest party, Fatah, on Thursday marked the anniversary of the “deaths as martyrs” of three terrorists who participated in the planning, kidnapping and murder of 11 Israeli athletes at the 1972 Munich Olympics, according to a report released by the watchdog group Palestinian Media Watch.

 

In a Facebook post, Palestinian Authority President and Fatah leader Mahmoud Abbas honored Mahmoud Yusuf al-Najjar, Kamal Nasser and Kamal Adwan, who were all senior members of the PLO and Black September in the 1970s.  

The three Black September terrorist were later assassinated by the Israeli Mossad in Beirut in April 1973 due to their involvement in the Munich Massacre.

 

Tawfiq Tirawi, a member of Fatah’s Central Committee, also commemorated Najjar, Nasser and Adwan as “leaders” who “redeemed Palestine with their souls” and understood “the value of self-sacrificing activity.”

 Other terrorists involved in the Munich Massacre have also been honored by the PA and Fatah in recent months, including in February, when Fatah saluted them by sharing a video that includes an infamous photo of a terrorist standing masked on the balcony of the Israeli athletes’ room in the Munich Olympic Village.

 Read More: Jerusalem Post

 

Yes in another thread somewhere  stated that it was BS that Arafat won  a peace prize just like another former terrorist, ex Isreali PM Menachem Begin who also won a peace prize. 

 

I totally condemn his actions before he tried to find a road to peace 

All those events you have talked about came before he reached out, back door chanel Norway, to hold discussions with Isreal.

Nothing justifies what he did before trying to make peace however he still did try.

It's hard to know exactly what he was thinking however he was the first Palestinian leader to recognise Isreal, he did renounce violence and at times tried to enforce that.  

 

I did state that he was very similar to Netanyahu, who while not yet convicted, is/ has been doing some pretty crooked shit.

 

So now we are going to hold all Palestinian accountable for the statements of their leaders.

 

Are all Isrealis to be held to account when heritage minister Amichai Eliyahu stated " one of Isreals options in the war against Hamas could be to drop a nuclear bomb on the Gaza strip " 

 

There have been some other pretty full on statements from guys like Isreals security minister Itamar Ben-Gvir amongst others. 

 

The state of Isreal was built open acts of terrorism, the leaders of some of those groups going on to become leaders in Israel.

 

What experts in terrorism consider the first modern act of Terrorism, post WW2,  the bombing of the King David Hotel by the Irgun, as I have already stated, one of its leaders, Menachem Begin went on to be PM of Isreal and win a Nobel prize.

 

Anyway the last day of the Dakar highlights is just about to start. 

 

For the I don't know how many times I have said this time, both sides should empathise with each other.

You know like the groups of people from both sides that work together for peace that I have posted articles and videos about in this thread.

[Ilunga]

38 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

She claims, but she does not know. She is likely correct but I won't make a stance there. But I haven't seen any overtures from Hamas about their release; all I see from them is blaming the IDF for hostage deaths. While that might be true, I highly doubt that every dead hostage is the result of an Israeli bomb.

 

 

I don't believe that every hostage death can be attributed to Hamas either.

I don't believe much they state.

That's why I haven't used their casualty/ death figures.

Go back a few pages and it was an Isreali source I quoted in regards to this.

Hamas fighters killed, ratio of civilians to Hamas fighters killed.

[Canuck Surfer]

42 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What experts in terrorism consider the first modern act of Terrorism, post WW2,  the bombing of the King David Hotel by the Irgun, as I have already stated, one of its leaders, Menachem Begin went on to be PM of Isreal and win a Nobel prize.

 

As we can see; history does have relevance today?  I pointed out moments ago Abbas still paying lineage to a terrorist past. I have to call out Bibi here on your point...  

 

60th anniversary controversy

The hotel in 2008

In July 2006, the Menachem Begin Heritage Center organized a conference to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing. The conference was attended by past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun.^[47] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated." The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated", and wrote to the Mayor of Jerusalem that such an act of terror could not be honoured, even if it was preceded by a warning. The British government also demanded the removal of the plaque, stating that the statement accusing the British of failing to evacuate the hotel was untrue and "did not absolve those who planted the bomb."^[47][48]

[Ilunga]

22 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

As we can see; history does have relevance today?  I pointed out moments ago Abbas still paying lineage to a terrorist past. I have to call out Bibi here on your point...  

 

60th anniversary controversy

The hotel in 2008

In July 2006, the Menachem Begin Heritage Center organized a conference to mark the 60th anniversary of the bombing. The conference was attended by past and future Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and former members of Irgun.^[47] A plaque commemorating the bombing was unveiled, stating "For reasons known only to the British, the hotel was not evacuated." The British Ambassador in Tel Aviv and the Consul-General in Jerusalem protested, saying "We do not think that it is right for an act of terrorism, which led to the loss of many lives, to be commemorated", and wrote to the Mayor of Jerusalem that such an act of terror could not be honoured, even if it was preceded by a warning. The British government also demanded the removal of the plaque, stating that the statement accusing the British of failing to evacuate the hotel was untrue and "did not absolve those who planted the bomb."^[47][48]

 

Yes, I have brought this up before in regards to having a personal connection to this event. 

 

All I know for sure is that my dad told me that John Shaw was a distant family relative of ours. 

Part of the reason that since I learnt about this, I have researched this conflict, and maintained a strong interest in it. 

 

I will let others decide/make their own decisions about the allegations and actual facts that are detailed here in the part 

Sir John Shaw controversy.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

 

Rather telling don't you think that the Irgun sent him a letter bomb  two months later after he was appointed high commissioner of Trinidad and Tobago. 

 

The clan Shaw forgives but never forgets. 

 

Actually our motto is 

Fide et fortitudine 

Fidelity and fortitude 

 

However I don't hold the Isreali people responsible for the actions of a few.

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

So we can't question the amount of civilian, innocent women and children that are being killed in the name of eradicating Hamas?

 

So I am curious, 24 hours ago Hamas fired rockets at innocent people in a farm close to Gaza. They launched those rockets from a rooftop and you discover that rooftop is a hospital in Khan unis, Gaza.: 

 

Do you try to stop the rockets being fired or do you let Hamas continue to fire them willy nilly at farmers nearby? 

 

It is a simple yes or no. Do you stop the rocketeers or do you let it continue? Asking for a one word answer. A longer narrative may follow, since I know you want to do the long form.

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

So I am curious, 24 hours ago Hamas fired rockets at innocent people in a farm close to Gaza. They launched those rockets from a rooftop and you discover that rooftop is a hospital in Khan unis, Gaza.: 

 

Do you try to stop the rockets being fired or do you let Hamas continue to fire them willy nilly at farmers nearby? 

 

It is a simple yes or no. Do you stop the rocketeers or do you let it continue? Asking for a one word answer. A longer narrative may follow, since I know you want to do the long form.

 

One word answer....Yes. 

 

I would like to be allowed to elaborate on that.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

One word answer....Yes. 

 

I would like to be allowed to elaborate on that.

By all means, I know you would be elocutious on the question.

[Super19]

Iron Dome? 

And what's the ground crew doing in Gaza anyway then? Just keep airstriking. 

[Optimist Prime]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Iron Dome? 

And what's the ground crew doing in Gaza anyway then? Just keep airstriking. 

I already know your answer, I am asking the peacenik from unclaimed space in ozz. Kidding, I am just smiling here, no insults intended. 

 

We are all much closer in our respective positions than we presume. Peace be upon you. 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

By all means, I know you would be elocutious on the question.

 

Great word..... however this is an extremely important question that has a few moral implications. 

 

As you know I condemn all acts of violence however when confronted with violence it seems our species only respects violence.

 

I believe that the Isrealis have shown in the past they have the ability to be " surgical " in response on certain occasions.

 

In regards to a hospital, I know what international law states, however I know what my conscience dictates.

 

I would make every effort to impact only the terrorists themselves.

 

What I will say with conviction is that that these figures, half of Gaza's building have been damaged or destroyed a figure that accounts for almost 70 percent of its 439,000 homes.

 

That is a disproportionate response.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/some-70-of-gaza-homes-damaged-or-destroyed-wall-street-journal-analysis/

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Great word..... however this is an extremely important question that has a few moral implications. 

 

As you know I condemn all acts of violence however when confronted with violence it seems our species only respects violence.

 

I believe that the Isrealis have shown in the past they have the ability to be " surgical " in response on certain occasions.

 

In regards to a hospital, I know what international law states, however I know what my conscience dictates.

 

I would make every effort to impact only the terrorists themselves.

 

What I will say with conviction is that that these figures, half of Gaza's building have been damaged or destroyed a figure that accounts for almost 70 percent of its 439,000 homes.

 

That is a disproportionate response.

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/some-70-of-gaza-homes-damaged-or-destroyed-wall-street-journal-analysis/

 

 

My tally is more than half in the north, maybe half in the central and less than half in the south. But there is more coming to the south than yet to come in the north.  Also, I appreciate you and your position.

[Ilunga]

20 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I already know your answer, I am asking the peacenik from unclaimed space in ozz. Kidding, I am just smiling here, no insults intended. 

 

We are all much closer in our respective positions than we presume. Peace be upon you. 

 

I live on the traditional land of the Wurundjeri people.

I pay my respect to those and all the other indigenous tribes that have lived on this continent for over 60,000 years and constitute the world's oldest continuous culture.

They used to hold corroborees on a site that is believed to be the current location of the football ground and the cricket ground. 

 

Our farm was bush when mum and dad bought it.

I still have the tree- puller that dad used to pull out the massive gum trees with. 

It would take days, literally inch by inch with big thick wire cables.

He was like a Superman to me.

 

There is an enduring myth that our first nations people were hunter gatherers, that is not correct, there is evidence of them using farming techniques in certain parts of Australia, however there is no evidence of this where I live, and the Wurundjeri people have not made a claim on this land unlike other parts of their country. 

 

Edit

Still have probably about an acre of bush on my ten acre farm.

Edited January 20 by Ilunga

[Super19]

Realistically the only way to defeat Hamas through war is to listen to the genocidal officials and talking heads in Israel. Nuke Gaza. Turn it into a deserted island. A parking lot. Israel will then take Gaza. Build on it. Israelis will settle in. They'll leave some Palestenians around, just to say it wasn't a genocide - 2nd and 3rd class citizens for sure. Prison for the sketchy Palestinians who threat the security of the peace in the land.

Massive peace deal gets signed with Saudi. Muslims from all over the world will be able to visit Al-Aqsa. Gaza will be a booming tourist spot. 

 

If you don't call for a ceasefire, this is how it's going to play out. OR, Hezbollah and Iran enter full scale with Hamas + regional escalations and the chances of Israel winning is not 100%.

[Optimist Prime]

8 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Realistically the only way to defeat Hamas through war is to listen to the genocidal officials and talking heads in Israel. Nuke Gaza. Turn it into a deserted island. A parking lot. Israel will then take Gaza. Build on it. Israelis will settle in. They'll leave some Palestenians around, just to say it wasn't a genocide - 2nd and 3rd class citizens for sure. Prison for the sketchy Palestinians who threat the security of the peace in the land.

Massive peace deal gets signed with Saudi. Muslims from all over the world will be able to visit Al-Aqsa. Gaza will be a booming tourist spot. 

 

If you don't call for a ceasefire, this is how it's going to play out. OR, Hezbollah and Iran enter full scale with Hamas + regional escalations and the chances of Israel winning is not 100%.

But near enough to 100% so as to be sheer madness to try.

[Super19]

16 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

But near enough to 100% so as to be sheer madness to try.

I disagree, it might even be 50/50.

 

Oct 7 was an attack that was near enough to 100% to have never been allowed to happen. Agreed? 

[Ilunga]

26 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Realistically the only way to defeat Hamas through war is to listen to the genocidal officials and talking heads in Israel. Nuke Gaza. Turn it into a deserted island. A parking lot. Israel will then take Gaza. Build on it. Israelis will settle in. They'll leave some Palestenians around, just to say it wasn't a genocide - 2nd and 3rd class citizens for sure. Prison for the sketchy Palestinians who threat the security of the peace in the land.

Massive peace deal gets signed with Saudi. Muslims from all over the world will be able to visit Al-Aqsa. Gaza will be a booming tourist spot. 

 

If you don't call for a ceasefire, this is how it's going to play out. OR, Hezbollah and Iran enter full scale with Hamas + regional escalations and the chances of Israel winning is not 100%.

 

Take a look at your promised land 

Your deed is that gun in your hand 

Mt.Zions a minefield

 

The west bank 

The Gaza strip 

The west bank

The Gaza strip 

 

Soon to be parking lots for American tourists

And fascist cops, yeah 

 

Some good Winnipeg boys 

 

@Optimist Prime 

 

Check out that song 

 

Haillie Selassie up your Ass

 

I think it's right up your alley