Hamas attacking Israel

[Optimist Prime]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Does the killing of 1200 people,  justify killing over 10,000 kids, thousands of women and literally destroying a society in regards to infrastructure and homes ?

 

Being an amateur historian, I know his this will be viewed in 50- 100 years time.

Being an amateur historian, and from what I have read from you for ages here and on the old forums, a pretty good amateur historian, you must also see that this is a product of the war that Hamas invited when they attacked Israel and murdered 1200 people celebrating a Peaceful Life of treating others as they themselves wanted to be treated. The dead kids are a horrible and terrible reality, where we differ is I know they are not unique to Gaza, nor are they wished for by the IDF or their masters. When Gaza attacked Israel, it required a response. I dunno if anyone else listened to Sam Harris' podcast that was linked yesterday, but it speaks of how much restraint Israel has shown in trying to protect innocents. Leaflets test messages and phone calls to cell phones telling folks to move. Has it been perfect? Far from it. Has Israel destroyed roughly one Hamas militant Jihadi for every civvy death, roughly? Yes. Find me a conflict where one civilian doesn't die for every armed combatant that dies and I will eat my hat. I don't like it, but I understand it. 

 

I will go one further in this: If Israel stops right now and Hamas is NOT removed from power and peace ensues for Israel until the next time Hamas attacks innocents: then all the destruction and death in Gaza that is secondary to the mission of removing Hamas will have been for naught. Really? That is what you want to be the outcome tomorrow morning? thousands of dead kids and nothing has changed?

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

hehehe. Nah, I am just stating that humanity has asked and answered the question of 'can communism work in such a way as to protect every member of a given society?' and the answer has been a resounding NO. 

 

While the Russian communist dictators lived far better than the people they ruled, the Russian " peasants "  quality of life vastly improved compared to life under the Tsars. 

Their society built up the technological know how to indulge in the space race.

They were actually the first to put a person into space.

 

While it could be considered a mix of communism and the free market, over the past 40 years china has lifted 800 million people out of poverty.

 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

 

I studied economics at school, I was going to be an accountant before I fucked shit up.

 

The perfect economic theory, in theory, is a mix of all of them. 

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/economic-theory-types

 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

While the Russian communist dictators lived far better than the people they ruled, the Russian " peasants "  quality of life vastly improved compared to life under the Tsars. 

Their society built up the technological know how to indulge in the space race.

They were actually the first to put a person into space.

 

While it could be considered a mix of communism and the free market, over the past 40 years china has lifted 800 million people out of poverty.

 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

 

I studied economics at school, I was going to be an accountant before I fucked shit up.

 

The perfect economic theory, in theory, is a mix of all of them. 

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/economic-theory-types

 

 

 

for what it is worth (although I am aware that my issue by issue stance confuses people: i have been called everything from fascist to commie depending on the specific topic at hand) I consider myself to be socialist. I think that capital drives markets and supply and innovation, and compassion and taxes aid in helping those left behind by the former. I lean even left of the Liberal Party in Canada but not as far left as the NDP party in Canada. I have progressive conservative roots and answers to some issues, while I tend to have left of center overall leanings. Talking in a war based thread, I am sure i come off more fascista than humanist. oddly enough though I spend a good deal of money on humanist issues here in Canada. Having said all that: i think you are right the perfect set up has the best bits of all the theories yet tried by humanity. I can't wait until the globe is better balanced in quality of life for a vast majority of humans and frankly animals, but that is another story all together. 

[Bob Long]

26 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I think lots of people liked Stsr Trek (TOS) because there was a future where the utopian ideals for earth were present. But, of course, there was violence and aggression off planet. We are a savage beast. 

 

Star Trek is a nice idea to live up to. 

 

In the meantime tho, we can see how some very bad people manipulate the best intentions of others.

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Star Trek is a nice idea to live up to. 

 

In the meantime tho, we can see how some very bad people manipulate the best intentions of others.

the only answer to that is good people have to do things they detest in order to help even more people see the better side. 

I am in no way religious but the 'good book' says blessed are the peacemakers not blessed are the peaceful. Sometimes to make peace you have to remove the belligerents from the equation. 

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Being an amateur historian, and from what I have read from you for ages here and on the old forums, a pretty good amateur historian, you must also see that this is a product of the war that Hamas invited when they attacked Israel and murdered 1200 people celebrating a Peaceful Life of treating others as they themselves wanted to be treated. The dead kids are a horrible and terrible reality, where we differ is I know they are not unique to Gaza, nor are they wished for by the IDF or their masters. When Gaza attacked Israel, it required a response. I dunno if anyone else listened to Sam Harris' podcast that was linked yesterday, but it speaks of how much restraint Israel has shown in trying to protect innocents. Leaflets test messages and phone calls to cell phones telling folks to move. Has it been perfect? Far from it. Has Israel destroyed roughly one Hamas militant Jihadi for every civvy death, roughly? Yes. Find me a conflict where one civilian doesn't die for every armed combatant that dies and I will eat my hat. I don't like it, but I understand it. 

 

I will go one further in this: If Israel stops right now and Hamas is NOT removed from power and peace ensues for Israel until the next time Hamas attacks innocents: then all the destruction and death in Gaza that is secondary to the mission of removing Hamas will have been for naught. Really? That is what you want to be the outcome tomorrow morning? thousands of dead kids and nothing has changed?

 

I listened to that video.

It only lasted 30 odd seconds for me.

Something about a clash of cultures from memory. 

 

I agree that Hamas has to be taken, however who and what is going to replace it.

 

Do you remember that article I posted and what is discussed in relation to trauma.

And how it is passed down through the generations.

I am living proof of this.

My biological mother passed her anxiety onto me in the womb.

It is also handed down in the form of memory and the spoken word. 

This is a trauma driven conflict, the trauma of one violent event leads to another violent event and so on, and on.

 

So many people in positions of power like Josh Paul are stating the Israeli response will only cause more pain for both peoples in the long run.

 

How many " terrorists" will be created by the actions of the Isrealis.

I have already posted an article that stated a four star American general, who was very experienced in counter insurgency, claimed that for every civilian killed, 10 terrorists are " created " 

While it may not be that figure in Gaza, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people who weren't terrorists before, but might consider violence as a means to exact revenge now.

 

That's what Israel is doing, that's the bottom line.

It might be a form of justified revenge, however revenge it is.

 

If your child, your brother, your sister some one you loved was killed and you lived in a place where the people who did this weren't held to account, what would you do ?

Factor in you are poor and don't have much hope for the future at the same time ?

[Ilunga]

18 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

for what it is worth (although I am aware that my issue by issue stance confuses people: i have been called everything from fascist to commie depending on the specific topic at hand) I consider myself to be socialist. I think that capital drives markets and supply and innovation, and compassion and taxes aid in helping those left behind by the former. I lean even left of the Liberal Party in Canada but not as far left as the NDP party in Canada. I have progressive conservative roots and answers to some issues, while I tend to have left of center overall leanings. Talking in a war based thread, I am sure i come off more fascista than humanist. oddly enough though I spend a good deal of money on humanist issues here in Canada. Having said all that: i think you are right the perfect set up has the best bits of all the theories yet tried by humanity. I can't wait until the globe is better balanced in quality of life for a vast majority of humans and frankly animals, but that is another story all together. 

 

First off I just noticed the, there it is, emoji or whatever you call it is gone.

That was the response I wanted to use in relation to this post, but I am also a hugger in real life and I love the emotion that emoji conveys.

 

I to consider myself both socialist and a humanist, if you want to apply labels.

They don't fully accurately describe all my views however the come closer than other labels. 

 

As I used to state to mum, my  overriding dynamic/label is to treat others the way you wish to be treated yourself.

That covered her " ten commandments ".

You don't want to be stolen from, don't steal from others.

You don't want to be murdered, don't murder others. 

Etc.

 

This covers all the different ways human beings interact with each other.

That's why some of us call it the golden rule.

 

 

 

Your last paragraph really warms my heart and it is exactly how I feel.

 

As for the being a humanist and an argumentative sod, my last post in the God thread was about a guy called Greg Raffin PHD

Evolutionary biologist

UCLA lecturer in natural sciences courses

Has been awarded the Rushdie award for Cultural humanism from Harvard chaplaincy.

While he doesn't believe in a god, he states he practices Naturalism.

He believes, as I do, that Naturalism is a belief system.

 

Any way what I wanted to say in relation to our discussion is to quote some words from one of his, Bad Religions songs 

 

" your obsessed and distressed 

Cause you can't make any sense of the ludicrous nonsense 

And incipient senescence 

That will deem your common sense useless 

 

I want to believe in you, but my plan keeps falling through 

I know I have to face the harshness, and grin and bear the truth 

And I have to walk this mile in my own shoes 

 

I'm a materialist 

A full blown realist 

Physical theorist 

And I guess I'm full of doubt 

So I'll gladly have it out with you

I'm a materialist

I ain't no diest

It's there for all to see, so don't talk of hidden mysteries with me 

 

Like Rome under Nero our futures one big zero 

Recycling the past to meet immediate needs 

And through it all we ramble forth with preserve and climb

Our mountains of regret to sow out seeds 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

How many " terrorists" will be created by the actions of the Isrealis.

I have already posted an article that stated a four star American general, who was very experienced in counter insurgency, claimed that for every civilian killed, 10 terrorists are " created " 

While it may not be that figure in Gaza, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people who weren't terrorists before, but might consider violence as a means to exact revenge now.

 

That's what Israel is doing, that's the bottom line.

It might be a form of justified revenge, however revenge it is.

 

If your child, your brother, your sister some one you loved was killed and you lived in a place where the people who did this weren't held to account, what would you do ?

Factor in you are poor and don't have much hope for the future at the same time ?

Pretty sure we agree on this. The thing is: leaving Hamas in charge means todays terrorists are still operators aiming to wipe Israel off the map. Ending those operators ability to carry out their wishes is paramount to any secondary problem of future jihadi's growing up to hate Israel. I am hopeful that once the dogs of war have been put down, in the most humane way possible, I would prefer they surrendered tonight, that the future for the peaceful people of Gaza is much brighter, much more peaceful and many times more prosperous. 

 

My grandmother was 12, hiding in a church in Finland while 30,000 russian backed "red finns'' ransacked her city and murdered civilian men of military age while trying to round up the spoils of war, including her. The 'white finns' (not a racial thing but a political notation) rallied and stormed the city, liberating it in 1918 version of a blitzkrieg maneuver. The civilian losses were in the tens of thousands over a short period of time there in that city. The few who were huddled in the church survived including my grandmother. My grandfather fought with General Mannerheim in his elite guards unit among the vanguard of the push to liberate the city. I think your last paragraph is covered here, it wasn't me, but it was mine, 60 years before I was conceived. My grandparents didn't meet that day, or anytime after it, as the units were quickly moved to another front on skiis mostly with some war reindeer pulling sleds. Lucky for me they met here in Canada after my Grandfather went on to fight in a few wars in Europe as a mercenary. he came here on account of thinking the French and English were about to get into a civil war and he was hoping to get paid but that is besides the point. hehe. 
The answer to what would they do, I have not been in that position yet, and hopefully never will, but what they did was they decided to end the bloody civil war with a decisive confrontation and they slaughtered 30,000 red Finns to decisively end the war. This was not even close to the number of civilians the reds had murdered in the weeks previous, but it is still gross, no matter how you count it. Later, my Ukki made his way home to the family farm in Vaasa and lay in wait for his own father to come back from the war. His father was a red finn who was known to have been a horrible human to girls and children in the war, some of them his own flesh and blood. My Ukki shot his dad with one bullet between his eyes from a gap in a berm that he knew his father would walk in order to make it home. We think he lay there for weeks waiting. He was arrested and jailed briefly, but his military service and being on the winning side saved him from a murder charge, and his mates left his cell door unlocked with a passport on the desk and they left for lunch. he left for the docks and never returned to Finland. So the answer is: terrible things. I think you knew that though, without the story. 

 

Edit: I have one of only a small handful, single digits survive, of a war medal awarded from King Mannerheim, as he was King of Finland for 2 weeks before abdicating and declaring the future of Finland was to be Democratic and no monarch should sit on a throne: but my Grandfather for his part in that battle was awarded one of the most rare medals in Finish military history. There is only one known in Finland today and it is held in the Museum of the Infrantry in Vaasa. The only other one I am aware of is in my hand right now, remembering. Red with a bit of Yellow, which historically speaks to the Swedish influence of the region inside Finland at the time. My family has a swedish name as the second son of a Swede moved to Finland during swedish rule, promised land that eventually became that farm where my grandfather killed his dad. I find it a fascinating story. My sister is still working on the geneology and family history from earlier than the 1600's but when she is more or less completed it, I may write a book more on the 'story' part. OH and this medal is worth at least 5000 Euros, as the Infrantry Museum offered me that if i would send or deliver it to them to add to their collection. I hope to pass it to a nephew when I am gone though, along with the history. 

Victory Parade in Helsinki, May 1918. The shortest of those marching could well be my tough old Ukki. He was 4'6" or so tall and tough as leather. I am 6'2", hahaha..i can't imagine. General Mannerheim on his horse, foreground.

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

Are their contributions viewed as equal?  
Obviously as people, in my eyes, we are all equal.  
Do we all provide the same value to society?    Absolutely not.  
With my skills, education and experience that earn me a great wage today,  does that get me the same amount of wealth as some lazy fuck who knows and provides nothing?  
Does the doctor who provide more than me to society and has spent even more time than me in school make the same as me?  

Good luck 

Would be nice. 

We have that now.  

Would be nice. 

I know of it.  
Im not a fan of the theory of communism, and history/people who lived it, tells me it enough to know I’m not going to waste my time reading it.  
It’s been tried and failed, is failing. 

Decent for me.   How about you?  Hahahah

Ive worked my bag off, studied hard and put in insane amounts of effort and sacrifice.   Same as my wife.  
As a result, we are doing pretty great.  
We both came from poor ass families, now we own one large company and run another.  
Can’t complain at all.  

I live in the lower mainland BC.  I know the struggle plenty well.  

We have the same struggle here. 

Pretty lucky to have the extra property and money to build his kid a bungalow. 

No, but communism isn’t the answer.  Hahahah

No matter what we are going to have a government who steals our money and blow it on shit we don’t agree with.  
BUT

Id much rather have the ability to really go for it and get myself ahead instead of being held back by the rest of society 

 

You first point I have brought up in many posts in the past.

And probably before you were born, if you are younger than 46, that was when I first the the communist manifesto, 46 years ago and shortly afterwards came to the conclusion that it like all, economic systems are ineffective in delivering any form of equality, they don't take human nature into account. 

 

And good on you, you had access to to good education, you are a very lucky person.

3.3 million people including over 760,000 kids live under the poverty line here in Aus.

Even with people like myself who sponsor  a " Smith family" child, I sponsor 2, many of these kids will never be as fortunate as you have been.

 

You claim you know the struggle, yet you state you have an extra property ?

Sounds like you are really struggling. 

Maybe like a lady that was living in her car with her 2 kids I met a few years back ?

 

Check a more recent post where I stated that a mix (the best parts)of all the economic theories would provide the most efficient and just economic system.

 

And none of what you have stated in your post refutes my claim that 

 

People should be considered equal 

All people should have a job 

We should have an eternally stable economic system

Strong social communities should be established

And there should be an efficient distribution of resources

Whatever label you want to place on these ideas.

 

Or don't you agree with them ?

 

What do you think of current system, where the richest 1 percent of the worlds population holds 50 percent of the wealth, and the poorest half of the worlds population holds .75 percent of the wealth 

 

Me I consider that really fucked up.

 

[Optimist Prime]

So all that I wrote a few posts up was longwinded and offtopic: but I lost my train of thought by the end, hehe, it happens. 

The Finns butchered 3o,000 people to end the civil war where Russia was to the Red Finns what Iran is to Hamas. Since that decicive overwhelming victory left the Reds unable to continue in any capacity: Finland has become amazing. There is one Finn for every 15ish other players in the NHL now. Finland joined NATO, they have been in relative peace since ww2 and their economy is thriving. Peace and Prosperity for generations! 
I have hope for the Gazans that once Hamas is unable to continue in any capacity, that the people of Gaza may have 100 years of peace and prosperity and more. It can happen. We are a warlike species, but we have seen throughout history that once war settles, peace and prosperity is more readily adopted by its survivors. I think it the horror of war that drive people to seek peace more than many generations of peace can accomplish on their own. Shrug, just a thought. Hamas can not continue, so hopefully the suffering is over faster for the 12 year olds huddled in the mosques. 

[Ilunga]

22 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Pretty sure we agree on this. The thing is: leaving Hamas in charge means todays terrorists are still operators aiming to wipe Israel off the map. Ending those operators ability to carry out their wishes is paramount to any secondary problem of future jihadi's growing up to hate Israel. I am hopeful that once the dogs of war have been put down, in the most humane way possible, I would prefer they surrendered tonight, that the future for the peaceful people of Gaza is much brighter, much more peaceful and many times more prosperous. 

 

My grandmother was 12, hiding in a church in Finland while 30,000 russian backed "red finns'' ransacked her city and murdered civilian men of military age while trying to round up the spoils of war, including her. The 'white finns' (not a racial thing but a political notation) rallied and stormed the city, liberating it in 1918 version of a blitzkrieg maneuver. The civilian losses were in the tens of thousands over a short period of time there in that city. The few who were huddled in the church survived including my grandmother. My grandfather fought with General Mannerheim in his elite guards unit among the vanguard of the push to liberate the city. I think your last paragraph is covered here, it wasn't me, but it was mine, 60 years before I was conceived. My grandparents didn't meet that day, or anytime after it, as the units were quickly moved to another front on skiis mostly with some war reindeer pulling sleds. Lucky for me they met here in Canada after my Grandfather went on to fight in a few wars in Europe as a mercenary. he came here on account of thinking the French and English were about to get into a civil war and he was hoping to get paid but that is besides the point. hehe. 
The answer to what would they do, I have not been in that position yet, and hopefully never will, but what they did was they decided to end the bloody civil war with a decisive confrontation and they slaughtered 30,000 red Finns to decisively end the war. This was not even close to the number of civilians the reds had murdered in the weeks previous, but it is still gross, no matter how you count it. Later, my Ukki made his way home to the family farm in Vaasa and lay in wait for his own father to come back from the war. His father was a red finn who was known to have been a horrible human to girls and children in the war, some of them his own flesh and blood. My Ukki shot his dad with one bullet between his eyes from a gap in a berm that he knew his father would walk in order to make it home. We think he lay there for weeks waiting. He was arrested and jailed briefly, but his military service and being on the winning side saved him from a murder charge, and his mates left his cell door unlocked with a passport on the desk and they left for lunch. he left for the docks and never returned to Finland. So the answer is: terrible things. I think you knew that though, without the story. 

 

Edit: I have one of only a small handful, single digits survive, of a war medal awarded from King Mannerheim, as he was King of Finland for 2 weeks before abdicating and declaring the future of Finland was to be Democratic and no monarch should sit on a throne: but my Grandfather for his part in that battle was awarded one of the most rare medals in Finish military history. There is only one known in Finland today and it is held in the Museum of the Infrantry in Vaasa. The only other one I am aware of is in my hand right now, remembering. Red with a bit of Yellow, which historically speaks to the Swedish influence of the region inside Finland at the time. My family has a swedish name as the second son of a Swede moved to Finland during swedish rule, promised land that eventually became that farm where my grandfather killed his dad. I find it a fascinating story. My sister is still working on the geneology and family history from earlier than the 1600's but when she is more or less completed it, I may write a book more on the 'story' part. OH and this medal is worth at least 5000 Euros, as the Infrantry Museum offered me that if i would send or deliver it to them to add to their collection. I hope to pass it to a nephew when I am gone though, along with the history. 

 

You have talked about this story before however I think you go deeper into the circumstances this time around.

I think it was when you first mentioned this, I did more research on the " red " and " white " Finn's.

 

I have also seen the movies, The Unknown Soldier, The Winter War, Rukajarven tie, and I have also seen the doco on Simo Haya, for those that don't know he is considered of of the deadliest snipers in history.

 

As I have stated brother, we have these free to air Chanel's SBS, three of them including a 24 hour world movie chanel. 

 

Here is the link to the " on demand " 

ie streaming.

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/

 

If this doesn't work just go to Google app store,  they have they app.

So many good docos, series, movies from all over the world. 

 

As for medals I used to hold my dad's in some form of esteem however he stated he wasn't proud of what he did.

It was just a dirty job that had to be done.

He said most of his fellow soldiers felt the same way.

He said that while some of them did say it did get easier to kill the enemy, it did damage something inside of them for want of a better word.

I have no plans to give them to Lachie.

Lachie was only 11 months old when dad died.

I wish he was old enough to remember the kind, gentle man I knew and remember.

 

My mum was the geanologist in our family.

I find it hard to find a connection to people I never even knew and had no real ties to at all.

Every single person who I have ever loved in any form has had no biological ties to me.

It's not biology that ties people together, its actions.

 

I grew up with a few of my friends whose biological fathers beat them and their mothers up.

 

Biology ain't love.

 

[D.B Cooper]

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You first point I have brought up in many posts in the past.

And probably before you were born, if you are younger than 46, that was when I first the the communist manifesto, 46 years ago and shortly afterwards came to the conclusion that it like all, economic systems are ineffective in delivering any form of equality, they don't take human nature into account. 

 

And good on you, you had access to to good education, you are a very lucky person.

I went to BCIT. It’s an everyday trades school.  Everyone has access to it.  

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

3.3 million people including over 760,000 kids live under the poverty line here in Aus.

Even with people like myself who sponsor  a " Smith family" child, I sponsor 2, many of these kids will never be as fortunate as you have been.

I love how you paint a picture of fortunate advantages.  
As a POC who grew up poor, I’m not sure what the fuck you are talking about.    Maybe check yourself a bit homie.  

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You claim you know the struggle, yet you state you have an extra property ?

Sounds like you are really struggling. 

Maybe like a lady that was living in her car with her 2 kids I met a few years back ?

I was commenting on your friend who had the extra property.   Not myself. 

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Check a more recent post where I stated that a mix (the best parts)of all the economic theories would provide the most efficient and just economic system.

 

And none of what you have stated in your post refutes my claim that 

 

People should be considered equal 

All people should have a job 

We should have an eternally stable economic system

Strong social communities should be established

And there should be an efficient distribution of resources

Whatever label you want to place on these ideas.

 

Or don't you agree with them ?

 

What do you think of current system, where the richest 1 percent of the worlds population holds 50 percent of the wealth, and the poorest half of the worlds population holds .75 percent of the wealth 

 

Me I consider that really fucked up.

 

You can keep your fucking communist bullshit in Australia. 
Good luck with that homie.  
I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen for you because your country is an amazing place, despite the poor me shit you have been spouting.  
 

I was down to have a regular conversation until you starting making stupid assumptions.  
 

 

Edited February 3 by D.B Cooper

[Optimist Prime]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You have talked about this story before however I think you go deeper into the circumstances this time around.

I think it was when you first mentioned this, I did more research on the " red " and " white " Finn's.

 

I have also seen the movies, The Unknown Soldier, The Winter War, Rukajarven tie, and I have also seen the doco on Simo Haya, for those that don't know he is considered of of the deadliest snipers in history.

 

As I have stated brother, we have these free to air Chanel's SBS, three of them including a 24 hour world movie chanel. 

 

Here is the link to the " on demand " 

ie streaming.

 

https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/

 

If this doesn't work just go to Google app store,  they have they app.

So many good docos, series, movies from all over the world. 

 

As for medals I used to hold my dad's in some form of esteem however he stated he wasn't proud of what he did.

It was just a dirty job that had to be done.

He said most of his fellow soldiers felt the same way.

He said that while some of them did say it did get easier to kill the enemy, it did damage something inside of them for want of a better word.

I have no plans to give them to Lachie.

Lachie was only 11 months old when dad died.

I wish he was old enough to remember the kind, gentle man I knew and remember.

 

My mum was the geanologist in our family.

I find it hard to find a connection to people I never even knew and had no real ties to at all.

Every single person who I have ever loved in any form has had no biological ties to me.

It's not biology that ties people together, its actions.

 

I grew up with a few of my friends whose biological fathers beat them and their mothers up.

 

Biology ain't love.

 

right? 

I chose my clan from those around me that I cared about, and it is a very ragtag strange group from all walks of life, hehe. Family is a choice, relatives are thrust upon us. 
I only have small versions of my own medals as I didn't care enough to put my awarded ones anywhere special like a safe or a bank box. I lost them over the years...i know they are somewhere, but who knows what box or shelf. Haven't seen them since before we moved to our acre of earth two blocks from where we were married. 

 

I appreciate the link, i am always looking for good info and with my VPN I should be able to access it later when i look. 

The Love you take is equal to the love you make, we may disagree on the details but I think we are both in favour of peace. Lets hope for that sooner than later. 

[Optimist Prime]

Quote

while conversing with Hitler, Mannerheim lit a cigar. Mannerheim expected that Hitler would ask Finland for more help against the Soviet Union, which Mannerheim was unwilling to give. When Mannerheim lit up, all in attendance gasped, for Hitler's aversion to smoking was well known. Nevertheless, Hitler continued the conversation calmly, with no comment. By this test, Mannerheim could judge if Hitler was speaking from a position of strength or weakness. He refused Hitler, knowing that Hitler was in a weak position, and could not dictate to him.^[65][66]

Talking about Finland's civil war and such got me reading and i stumbled upon this fragment..making me think...really: Gaza needs a voice of peace from within Gaza to speak plainly and negotiate for Gazans, Not for Hamas and not for Iran but for the people of Gaza. Where will such a voice come from?

[Super19]

 

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, D.B Cooper said:

I went to BCIT. It’s an everyday trades school.  Everyone has access to it.  

I love how you paint a picture of fortunate advantages.  
As a POC who grew up poor, I’m not sure what the fuck you are talking about.    Maybe check yourself a bit homie.  

I was commenting on your friend who had the extra property.   Not myself. 

You can keep your fucking communist bullshit in Australia. 
Good luck with that homie.  
I sincerely hope it doesn’t happen for you because your country is an amazing place, despite the poor me shit you have been spouting.  
 

I was down to have a regular conversation until you starting making stupid assumptions.  
 

 

 

 

While we do have Tafe and it's free not everyone is in the position to access it.

 

I am not trying to paint a picture of fortunate advantage, actually the opposite, those who have unfortunate circumstances.

 

I didn't state my friend had an extra property, I stated that he built a bungalow on his property for his son.

 

I do apologise for reading your comment wrong, thinking you had an extra property.

 

As for your Communist bullshit comment, you haven't provided any rational, logical arguments why people should not 

 

Be treated equally 

That Every citizen has a job

There is an eternally stable economic system

Strong social communities should be established

And there should be an efficient distribution of resources 

 

And you have failed to comment on the fact that under current economic conditions

1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the poorest 50 percent of the population holds .75 percent of the wealth. 

 

Tell me do you think this is a fair and just situation ? 

 

You have also failed to acknowledge that I have now stated twice, that a mixture of the best parts of all economic theories, would be the probably be the best answer in relation to an economic model.

 

And where did I say poor me ?

Go check the Canada population thread, I stated that I have lived a life most can only dream of. 

 

Check the music thread, people have thought my life is interesting enough they felt the need to tell others about.

 

And out of the rad things I have done, bikes, cars, 20 years of ski- bumming, a chunk of them around the world, couch surfing.

Five of the happiest years of my life was when I was sleeping in the back of my car at Mt. Hotham skiing every day, hanging out with my friends and generally living the dream.

 

No poor me.

Very lucky me on so many more levels than that.

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

right? 

I chose my clan from those around me that I cared about, and it is a very ragtag strange group from all walks of life, hehe. Family is a choice, relatives are thrust upon us. 
I only have small versions of my own medals as I didn't care enough to put my awarded ones anywhere special like a safe or a bank box. I lost them over the years...i know they are somewhere, but who knows what box or shelf. Haven't seen them since before we moved to our acre of earth two blocks from where we were married. 

 

I appreciate the link, i am always looking for good info and with my VPN I should be able to access it later when i look. 

The Love you take is equal to the love you make, we may disagree on the details but I think we are both in favour of peace. Lets hope for that sooner than later. 

 

Don't get me wrong brother, I am not telling anyone else how to view their or their relatives actions in war, or the medals they were awarded.

My views have been shaped by my father's words and thoughts and by my own conscience. 

 

As for the people I chose to surround myself with, as I stated in reply to a post from Sharpie.

 

The only criteria I have in my friends is that they have a good heart.

I don't care what you own, or what you have achieved, it's the kind of person you are that matters.

 

That's the legacy we all leave behind.

People won't come to your funeral/visit your grave, because you were rich or because you were a world champ, they will come because you made an impression on them.

Being kind, compassionate and that you cared about others. 

 

Speaking about that, when I went to NOFX's last gig, last weekend, I sat next to my friend and a girl on the other side, she was on her own.

Me being me, I talked to her a bit, talking about the meaning behind some of their songs, just being friendly.

When my friend rang me a couple of days later for my birthday, he told me, that she told him, as we were leaving, that I made her night. 

I only met this person for a few hours and that was the impression I left.

 

In my book, that's being a successful person.

 

 

[Super19]

What are your guys thoughts on Zionism and the extreme form it has&is becoming? 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

What are your guys thoughts on Zionism and the extreme form it has&is becoming? 

 

 

Extremists are causing terrible harm all over the planet. We don't need any of them.

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Talking about Finland's civil war and such got me reading and i stumbled upon this fragment..making me think...really: Gaza needs a voice of peace from within Gaza to speak plainly and negotiate for Gazans, Not for Hamas and not for Iran but for the people of Gaza. Where will such a voice come from?

 

I, and others have commented on this.

 

I get knocked for being a person who believes in trying to use peaceful means to achieve change, however isn't it that sort of person we want from the Palestinian population, advocating for them ?

 

A Palestinian MLK or figure like him ?

 

Not people who use violence as a means to try and initiate change.

[Ilunga]

7 minutes ago, Super19 said:

What are your guys thoughts on Zionism and the extreme form it has&is becoming? 

 

 

He is another Israeli voice that will be ignored not only in the world, but in this thread. 

 

So many Isrealis themselves state what he is saying, I have provided the evidence as you now are. 

 

 

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I could hear the Aussie in your voice when you typed that...made me wanna hear Kevin Bloody Wilson again...

 

 

I missed this.

 

This song is considered politically incorrect these days however he is not a rascist and I think it's funny as fuck.

The first time I heard this was nearly 40 years ago in Cairns.

There were these south Australians camped next to us the fresh water caravan park.

They played it as we were sitting round our campfire.

I was that stoned and laughed that hard, I fell backwards and dropped six feet into the river behind our camp. 

 

 

 

[Super19]

26 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Extremists are causing terrible harm all over the planet. We don't need any of them.

I agree.

 

I hope you see the great irony/hypocrisy in your statement that I see. I don't think you do but I'll give a bit of my views.

 

We differ greatly in this. Hamas is fighting the extreme Zionists that hold power in Israel.

 

We have extremists fighting extremists. There is no question about this.

 

My moral outrage is that we (West) have decided to back the extremists in Israel with impunity. No red lines for them. We give them funding, weapons, have their backs on the diplomatic stage, but to save some face we say things like "be careful in your bombing" and "you know, not saying you're willing to back a 2 state solution is kinda not a good look here".

 

The recent discussions about who is Indigenous to that land, the persecution that Jews have historically faced, the birth of Israel and the steady rise of Zionism culminating over the years has reached a boiling point that we call Oct 7.

 

I feel like I'm going to go off on a tangent this Friday night, but truly I couldn't agree more with your quoted post. I despise extremism to any end. And the two extremists we have at the ends of the people who are residing over the "holy land" both feel like they are victims fighting Nazis. How'd it get like this, how'd we let this happen?

 

And as you can probably tell, I'm in the camp that has historically felt more sympathy for Palestinians - and why shouldn't I? The idea of Israel was a win for humanity, but people talk about Marxism/communism being ideals we cannot reach, how did we let Israel become an ideal that we could not reach?

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Show me where on earth this has actually worked: it can look good on paper all you like but it just has never worked out ever, anywhere. Shrug. 
garden of eden sounded great too, but that too just looks good in the story book that its written in. 
I like point 1. I like point 4. I like point 5 a lot. Point 3 is aspirational at best: this has never been a real on the ground aspect of any communist regime. Point 2 sounds like slavery. I don't want a job, I am happy right now and only have a side gig involving global affairs analysis and consulting, and I only take the work i really am interested in.

 

As for folks in Australia paying 800 a week rent: Justin Trudeau REALLY SUCKS if he is also causing house rentals to soar in Australia.... 
okay that little bit was off topic but would fit great in the Canadian Politics thread right now. hehehe. 

 

I always liked the communism experiment at one of the universities (don’t remember the exact location). A professor implemented the equality system. No matter what mark you get on an exam, the whole class gets an average mark of an entire class. After first exam, the students who would have gotten 100 got upset for having their mark averaged. At the same time, students with 50 score were happy - they had their score improved. Over time, average score kept going down and down until everyone failed. The worse students were happy not to work hard because they were guaranteed to have their mark improved by the results of the others. At the same time, better students stopped working hard because they weren’t getting rewarded for their efforts. The communist utopia doesn’t take into account human nature. Unfortunately, russia is using western democracies to spread their propaganda more and more successfully with the social media.

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

I am defending those 5 ideas/ ideals Marx wrote about in his book the communist manifesto

 

1. People are equal 

2. Every citizen has a job

3. There is an eternally stable economic system

4. Strong social communities are established

5. Efficient distribution of resources

 

Sign me up.

 

You have read The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital ?

If you have, you would know these are five of the major ideas he advocates for.

 

Or do you find something wrong with those idea's ? 

 

How capatlism working out for us ?

 

Go check the cost of living thread and the housing thread to see how people feel.

Come over here to Aus and talk to my friends kids, some of whom not only, can only dream of owning a house, in some cases they can't afford to rent.

 

Was taking to my plumber yesterday, he was telling me his daughter and her family are paying $800 a week in rent in Queensland.

They are moving back home to live with him.

They have already built a bungalow for his son to live in on his property.

 

Good times......right ?

 

 

 

Capitalism is working for me awesome. I never expected anything to be given to me. I worked hard to get where I am now, using my brain primarily. I wouldn’t be where I am now with communism. I am happy to help less fortunate. My company recently established several sponsorships for club volleyball in Richmond. And my kids are working their own way into their careers and establishing themselves just fine without Daddy’s help. But I am not happy supporting some lazy bum who only wants to play video games and smoke pot.