Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

6 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

While the Russian communist dictators lived far better than the people they ruled, the Russian " peasants "  quality of life vastly improved compared to life under the Tsars. 

Their society built up the technological know how to indulge in the space race.

They were actually the first to put a person into space.

 

While it could be considered a mix of communism and the free market, over the past 40 years china has lifted 800 million people out of poverty.

 

https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience

 

I studied economics at school, I was going to be an accountant before I fucked shit up.

 

The perfect economic theory, in theory, is a mix of all of them. 

 

https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/economic-theory-types

 

 

 

 

Oh, boy. I have a bridge to sell to you if you think the lives in soviet villages has improved significantly under the Soviet Union. People in soviet kolhoz (“collectives”) remained slaves of the system. They weren’t paid salary, they were paid in “work days”. As a result, their pension was also minuscule. Vast majority of them never knew (and still don’t know) the basic comforts of the modern world, such as running water and toilet. You are getting some weird picture of how the life in Soviet Union was. I am really curious where are you getting your information about Soviet Union?

[Super19]

Spain has tripled its funding for UNRWA.

 

A Norwegian MP has nominated UNRWA for the Nobel Peace Prize.

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

Capitalism is working for me awesome. I never expected anything to be given to me. I worked hard to get where I am now, using my brain primarily. I wouldn’t be where I am now with communism. I am happy to help less fortunate. My company recently established several sponsorships for club volleyball in Richmond. And my kids are working their own way into their careers and establishing themselves just fine without Daddy’s help. But I am not happy supporting some lazy bum who only wants to play video games and smoke pot.

 

Yes it's working for me to.

It still blows me away that people buy flowers, a highly disposable product.

My mum did tell me, when I asked why they, my parents chose to grow flowers when they already had high paying professional jobs, that apart from loving it, in the great depression, she lived through it, if people had a bit to spare, they bought some extra food and invited people around, and those people if they had a bit to spare bought flowers.

Covid was good for me to, after an initial crash, prices picked up and flowers sold well.

Things are pretty tough at the moment, with the cost of living and way more competition for the disposable dollar, flowers have been getting harder to sell.

That's farming full stop.

You have your good years and bad and average years. 

 

As I have stated, what I have an issue with is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population controls 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom " 50 percent of the population controls .75 percent of the wealth.

 

That's pretty messed up in my books.

 

As for the bums comment, according to most economists when you are getting down to 3 - 4 percent unemployment, that's pretty much most of the " employable" work force being employed.

As of mid December last year, we here in Aus sit at 3.9 unemployment rate.

 

Your comment makes me think of the Everlast song 

 

" We've all seen the man at the liquor store begging for your change

The hair on his face is dirty, dreadlocked, and full of mange

He asks for what you can spare with shame in his eyes

Get a job you fuckin slob, is all he replies 

God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes 

Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues "

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

14 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes it's working for me to.

It still blows me away that people buy flowers, a highly disposable product.

My mum did tell me, when I asked why they, my parents chose to grow flowers when they already had high paying professional jobs, that apart from loving it, in the great depression, she lived through it, if people had a bit to spare, they bought some extra food and invited people around, and those people if they had a bit to spare bought flowers.

Covid was good for me to, after an initial crash, prices picked up and flowers sold well.

Things are pretty tough at the moment, with the cost of living and way more competition for the disposable dollar, flowers have been getting harder to sell.

That's farming full stop.

You have your good years and bad and average years. 

 

As I have stated, what I have an issue with is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population controls 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom " 50 percent of the population controls .75 percent of the wealth.

 

That's pretty messed up in my books.

 

As for the bums comment, according to most economists when you are getting down to 3 - 4 percent unemployment, that's pretty much most of the " employable" work force being employed.

As of mid December last year, we here in Aus sit at 3.9 unemployment rate.

 

Your comment makes me think of the Everlast song 

 

" We've all seen the man at the liquor store begging for your change

The hair on his face is dirty, dreadlocked, and full of mange

He asks for what you can spare with shame in his eyes

Get a job you fuckin slob, is all he replies 

God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes 

Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues "

 

 

 

 

Funny you should mention flowers in the Israel-related thread. You must know which booming business Israelis left in Gaza in 2005 after the unilateral withdrawal (that was quickly destroyed by Hamas).

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

Oh, boy. I have a bridge to sell to you if you think the lives in soviet villages has improved significantly under the Soviet Union. People in soviet kolhoz (“collectives”) remained slaves of the system. They weren’t paid salary, they were paid in “work days”. As a result, their pension was also minuscule. Vast majority of them never knew (and still don’t know) the basic comforts of the modern world, such as running water and toilet. You are getting some weird picture of how the life in Soviet Union was. I am really curious where are you getting your information about Soviet Union?

 

I am well versed in the life of the Russian peasants under the Tsars.

And I am very certain that there was an improvement in the quality of life for Russian peasants sometime after the revolution.  

Take for instance serfdom, a really fucked up form of slavery.

Unlike a slave, serf could only be sold together with the land they were " attached to.

This practice stopped in the 19th century and they were simply treated as slaves.

On that point alone the revolution had a positive effect on people's lives. 

Anyone who has any knowledge of Russian history knows that slight, though that may be, life improved for the Russian people after the Revolution.

 

My history teacher actually gave me a book about the Russian revolution when I was 13, after I expressed an interest in Lenin and Trotsky. 

 

I get it you hate Russia and I don't blame you.

The Russians are a weak people, easy to control people.

Some Psychologists state this is because they are born into a harsh climate/ environment so many of them are coddled and grow up accepting the " Yoke".

 

Me, I know they have never really been a " free" people, the way we know freedom.

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I always liked the communism experiment at one of the universities (don’t remember the exact location). A professor implemented the equality system. No matter what mark you get on an exam, the whole class gets an average mark of an entire class. After first exam, the students who would have gotten 100 got upset for having their mark averaged. At the same time, students with 50 score were happy - they had their score improved. Over time, average score kept going down and down until everyone failed. The worse students were happy not to work hard because they were guaranteed to have their mark improved by the results of the others. At the same time, better students stopped working hard because they weren’t getting rewarded for their efforts. The communist utopia doesn’t take into account human nature. Unfortunately, russia is using western democracies to spread their propaganda more and more successfully with the social media.

 

Brother that is not limited to Russian schools.

American schools try and hold onto or others try and poach the higher achieving students in regards to funding. 

Raise your grade average and you get more funding. 

 

Again I have stated many times that communism doesn't take into account human nature, but capitalism sure does, it rewards greed. 

 

As for Russia spreading propaganda, it is certainly not " communist" propaganda.

Russia stopped being a communist society over 30 years.

It has been described as a kleptocracy, an oligarchy maybe a plutocracy.

It's basically a crony capitalist economic system.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

IMO peace will be closer when guys looking like;

 

Vigilante's?

White supremacists with axes?

 

Are not allowed to roam around any neighborhood.  Israel needs to be responsible for arresting and bringing to justice such violators...

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Canuck Surfer

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, Super19 said:

I agree.

 

I hope you see the great irony/hypocrisy in your statement that I see. I don't think you do but I'll give a bit of my views.

 

We differ greatly in this. Hamas is fighting the extreme Zionists that hold power in Israel.

 

We have extremists fighting extremists. There is no question about this.

 

My moral outrage is that we (West) have decided to back the extremists in Israel with impunity. No red lines for them. We give them funding, weapons, have their backs on the diplomatic stage, but to save some face we say things like "be careful in your bombing" and "you know, not saying you're willing to back a 2 state solution is kinda not a good look here".

 

The recent discussions about who is Indigenous to that land, the persecution that Jews have historically faced, the birth of Israel and the steady rise of Zionism culminating over the years has reached a boiling point that we call Oct 7.

 

I feel like I'm going to go off on a tangent this Friday night, but truly I couldn't agree more with your quoted post. I despise extremism to any end. And the two extremists we have at the ends of the people who are residing over the "holy land" both feel like they are victims fighting Nazis. How'd it get like this, how'd we let this happen?

 

And as you can probably tell, I'm in the camp that has historically felt more sympathy for Palestinians - and why shouldn't I? The idea of Israel was a win for humanity, but people talk about Marxism/communism being ideals we cannot reach, how did we let Israel become an ideal that we could not reach?

 

Marxism and communism are fundamentally flawed concepts to govern societies. I would think that would be obvious by now.

 

Same thing with running a country through religious fundamentalism. Eg like Iran, who feel justified in their meddling.

 

The difference between communism, Iran, hamas and western support of Israel is only one of those has the chance to be democratic and actually for the people.

 

 

 

Edited February 3 by Bob Long

[Super19]

6 hours ago, Super19 said:

Spain has tripled its funding for UNRWA.

 

A Norwegian MP has nominated UNRWA for the Nobel Peace Prize.

Portugal also announced additional funding for UNRWA:

 

"Speaking to Portuguese media from Brussels on Friday, Foreign Minister João Gomes Cravinho said he had met with UNRWA’s Commissioner-General Philippe Lazzarini and was “completely confident and satisfied with the explanations” provided by him, “especially since this is not something structural within UNRWA.”

“UNRWA’s work is essential and therefore we will continue to support UNRWA,” he stressed and announced that Portugal will provide one million euros in the coming weeks as a “special donation,” in addition to the four million announced at the end of 2023 and already delivered.

“This additional million will now come in different circumstances, in a context in which some countries have announced that they will freeze their funding,” he explained."

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

While we do have Tafe and it's free not everyone is in the position to access it.

 

I am not trying to paint a picture of fortunate advantage, actually the opposite, those who have unfortunate circumstances.

 

I didn't state my friend had an extra property, I stated that he built a bungalow on his property for his son.

 

I do apologise for reading your comment wrong, thinking you had an extra property.

 

As for your Communist bullshit comment, you haven't provided any rational, logical arguments why people should not 

 

Be treated equally 

Without equal contribution into the world, people can’t be equal.  
Too many people not willing to pull their own weight, and those people should not be in an equal situation than those that do.  
Treated with fairness and respect, absolutely, but you get back what you put in. 
I like it like that personally.  
I love all people the same and do my best to treat them all the same.  
But you make your own bed.  
Some people choose to shit in theirs. 
 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

That Every citizen has a job

Not gonna happen.  Period.  Simple as that.  Just like now, you are always going to have people who can’t work or won’t work.

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

There is an eternally stable economic system

Yes

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Strong social communities should be established

There already are

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

And there should be an efficient distribution of resources 

Everyone should have enough.  

But guess what. There is more available, and I want some. I have the means to get some.  The government is going to tell me I’ve already bought 4 cobs of corn.  I can’t buy 2 more?  
Go ask Russians how well their communist government is doing distributing essentials.  Lol!
 

 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

And you have failed to comment on the fact that under current economic conditions

1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the poorest 50 percent of the population holds .75 percent of the wealth. 

 

Tell me do you think this is a fair and just situation ? 

Money goes where money is made and earned. 
I don’t believe in equal distribution because I don’t believe people have equal contributions to society.  
but I do think people should have enough. 
I believe in making and earning your way. 
IMO things like guaranteed universal income are going to be the cause of a civil war between the rich and poor and only going to make things much worse for the folks with less.  

 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

You have also failed to acknowledge that I have now stated twice, that a mixture of the best parts of all economic theories, would be the probably be the best answer in relation to an economic model.

A mixture of theories.  Sure. 
But not communism in the least.  
 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

And where did I say poor me ?

Go check the Canada population thread, I stated that I have lived a life most can only dream of. 

Then stop complaining

 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Check the music thread, people have thought my life is interesting enough they felt the need to tell others about.

This part makes me giggle.  
I listen to the same shit as you.  I grew up in punk rock and have played in bands and played shows with bands like NOFX, good riddance, Choke, etc….

You always like to make quotes from these folks like fat Mike, but completely ignore the fact that Mike is a capitalist who is gaining wealth off the work of puckers for years.  They all are.  They don’t back up their talk at all, except maybe Propagandhi. 

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

And out of the rad things I have done, bikes, cars, 20 years of ski- bumming, a chunk of them around the world, couch surfing.

Five of the happiest years of my life was when I was sleeping in the back of my car at Mt. Hotham skiing every day, hanging out with my friends and generally living the dream.

 

No poor me.

Very lucky me on so many more levels than that.

Again, then stop complaining. 
Maybe listen to the folks that have actually lived what you are asking for.  
Guess what, they all said it was hell. 

It’s fucking shocking to me that in this day and age, after seeing so many failed examples, we still have privileged folks in great countries crying for communism. 
So fucking dumb it hurts my brain. 

[Super19]

I feel like parts of capitalism is just like one big rat race that ignores workers who get exploited by the big pursuits of those who "work hard to get ahead". Everyone is free to get ahead and be a boss, but these bosses then rely on people who do indeed work hard and help run their businesses but are living on minimum wage in living conditions that are increasingly getting harder to keep up with.

 

If everyone chased their capitalistic dreams, whose gonna be there to work the minimum wage jobs?

[Optimist Prime]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

IMO peace will be closer when guys looking like;

 

Vigilante's?

White supremacists with axes?

 

Are not allowed to roam around any neighborhood.  By responsible for arresting and bringing to justice violators...

 

 

 

just from the image on the posted video, haven't watched it, are these the rednecks of Israel? MIGA? lololol

[Optimist Prime]

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

He is another Israeli voice that will be ignored not only in the world, but in this thread. 

 

So many Isrealis themselves state what he is saying, I have provided the evidence as you now are. 

 

 

it isn't ignored, it is more that, for me, i see the 'well what about that over there...' argument as obfuscation and in a way an excuse for what Hamas did on Oct 7th. Both things are bad, but only one thing was an outright act of war: murdering 1200 people in four hours is an act of war: vigilante's attacking peaceful neighbours is a crime. The scale between the two is incredible different. I am not outraged at settler violence as much as I am at Oct 7th because A)before Oct 7th it was not an every day all day occurrance and usually it was a response to violence from the "palestinians of the west bank". Of course there was criminal activity going on too and that needs to be stopped by Israel. 

The way it is presented here though reads like an excuse for Oct 7th and so I just ignore the side banter that has little to do with Hamas attacking Israel and starting this war. All the things before Oct 7th are irrelevant to me the moment Oct 7th actions occurred. 

 

I still have the opinion nothing we say here will affect anything over there so to spend days and weeks talking about how one in five settler violence situations was against purely peaceful people of the west bank just isn't something I care to do. I want to see the end of Hamas ability to wage war and terror. The small stuff can be worked out at a table. And before i hit 'post' i will say again: 4 in five situations in the west bank are rock and molotov cocktail attacks from Palestinians on Israeli's. I know not to throw rocks at guys with guns, I wish teenagers in the west bank knew that too. 

[Super19]

Palestinians are expected to co-exist with this?

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Well?  Maybe we should put more stock, hope?

 

In resistance movements...

 

 

[Super19]

4 months in and London is still showing up by the hundreds of thousands, marching in solidarity for Palestine.

Significantly including large groups of Jewish people (not to be confused with Zionists):

Meanwhile, Zionists in Israel continue to block aid that needs to get to suffering people:

 

 

 

I wondered why 4 months into this, why the IDF keeps posting videos that are so devoid of humanity, and the answer is because Israelis/Zionists eat it up. The IDF panders to them by making these videos. The most recent video of IDF soldiers throwing food - Zionists love seeing that shit.

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

Without equal contribution into the world, people can’t be equal.  
Too many people not willing to pull their own weight, and those people should not be in an equal situation than those that do.  
Treated with fairness and respect, absolutely, but you get back what you put in. 
I like it like that personally.  
I love all people the same and do my best to treat them all the same.  
But you make your own bed.  
Some people choose to shit in theirs. 
 

Not gonna happen.  Period.  Simple as that.  Just like now, you are always going to have people who can’t work or won’t work.

Yes

There already are

Everyone should have enough.  

But guess what. There is more available, and I want some. I have the means to get some.  The government is going to tell me I’ve already bought 4 cobs of corn.  I can’t buy 2 more?  
Go ask Russians how well their communist government is doing distributing essentials.  Lol!
 

 

Money goes where money is made and earned. 
I don’t believe in equal distribution because I don’t believe people have equal contributions to society.  
but I do think people should have enough. 
I believe in making and earning your way. 
IMO things like guaranteed universal income are going to be the cause of a civil war between the rich and poor and only going to make things much worse for the folks with less.  

 

A mixture of theories.  Sure. 
But not communism in the least.  
 

Then stop complaining

 

This part makes me giggle.  
I listen to the same shit as you.  I grew up in punk rock and have played in bands and played shows with bands like NOFX, good riddance, Choke, etc….

You always like to make quotes from these folks like fat Mike, but completely ignore the fact that Mike is a capitalist who is gaining wealth off the work of puckers for years.  They all are.  They don’t back up their talk at all, except maybe Propagandhi. 

Again, then stop complaining. 
Maybe listen to the folks that have actually lived what you are asking for.  
Guess what, they all said it was hell. 

It’s fucking shocking to me that in this day and age, after seeing so many failed examples, we still have privileged folks in great countries crying for communism. 
So fucking dumb it hurts my brain. 

 

People who can't contribute equally, cannot be treated equally ?

 

So just because a person might not work as  hard as you do, then they are not entitled to the same human rights and freedoms you have ?

That's what I mean by people being treated equally. 

 

Too many people not willing to pull their weight ?

Most economists state when you are down to 3-4 percent unemployment, most of the " employable " people have jobs.

Here in Aus we are at 3.9 percent unemployment.

And what about the underdeveloped/ third world countries, where they not only don't have the opportunities we do, in some cases western countries exploit their workforce. 

 

You really should do some research before stating things that are incorrect.

Russia does not have a communist government.

It has been described as variously, as a kleptocracy, an oligarchy or a Plutocracy.

It is a Crony capitalistic government.

 

https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvgc61tr

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/05/31/russias-oily-and-gassy-crony-capitalism-the-path-to-kleptocracy/

 

 

Fat Mike is a capitalist ?

For starters he started his own record label so he could pay the bands he signed to it more than the big companies.

Fat records used to sell their records and CD's cheaper than the big record companies before streaming fucked them all.

And he donates a percentage of profits he makes to charities of various sorts.

He lives and dresses much the same as he did when he started 40 years ago. 

If as you claim you have play with them and are conversant with the Punk scene, you would know this.

 

No just stop it.

People have not lived what I have am talking about.

How many times does it have to be said that communism has been a failed experiment because it doesn't take into account human nature.

Marx's ideas have never truly been put into practice.

 

Capitalism has taken human nature into account, it rewards greed. 

But of course you will find justification for the fact that in the the US, 20 percent of the population controls 86 percent of the wealth, while 80 percent of the population controls 14 percent of the wealth.

Those 20 percent work so much harder right ?

Just like those bankers that caused the GFC and then took taxpayers money, to not only bail out their institutions, but fund their own bonuses after destroying millions of people's lives, who lost their jobs, their wealth and their homes in many cases.

 

As for the rest, stop projecting on me.

You are the person complaining and telling us all what your rights should be.

I have not called for a communist government, please quote me where I stated this.

I simply stated the five economic ideas that Marx wrote about, are ideas I admire.

And you have stated that you agree with some of them.

So why your head is hurting has nothing to do with me.

Maybe its because you can't interpret my posts correctly.

 

The only thing I have complained about is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom" 50 percent of the population holds .75 of the wealth.

 

Betcha if you were in that bottom 50 percent you wouldn't be very happy about it.

Edited February 4 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

it isn't ignored, it is more that, for me, i see the 'well what about that over there...' argument as obfuscation and in a way an excuse for what Hamas did on Oct 7th. Both things are bad, but only one thing was an outright act of war: murdering 1200 people in four hours is an act of war: vigilante's attacking peaceful neighbours is a crime. The scale between the two is incredible different. I am not outraged at settler violence as much as I am at Oct 7th because A)before Oct 7th it was not an every day all day occurrance and usually it was a response to violence from the "palestinians of the west bank". Of course there was criminal activity going on too and that needs to be stopped by Israel. 

The way it is presented here though reads like an excuse for Oct 7th and so I just ignore the side banter that has little to do with Hamas attacking Israel and starting this war. All the things before Oct 7th are irrelevant to me the moment Oct 7th actions occurred. 

 

I still have the opinion nothing we say here will affect anything over there so to spend days and weeks talking about how one in five settler violence situations was against purely peaceful people of the west bank just isn't something I care to do. I want to see the end of Hamas ability to wage war and terror. The small stuff can be worked out at a table. And before i hit 'post' i will say again: 4 in five situations in the west bank are rock and molotov cocktail attacks from Palestinians on Israeli's. I know not to throw rocks at guys with guns, I wish teenagers in the west bank knew that too. 

 

Brother Isreali/ Jews themselves have been calling their regime arpartheid before these attacks. 

 

Again 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agreee

 

How about an ex head of the Mossad ?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief

 

And sadly people don't care what human rights organisations state, they are biased right ?

Not meaning you, but what others have stated.

Especially Israeli organisations

 

This article details the reasoning they B'tselem use to come to this conclusion.

 

http://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid

 

A quarter of the 7.6 million Israeli/Jews that live in America believe that Israel is an apartheid state.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/04/us-jews-rift-gaza-israel-crisis

 

And they are not peaceful neighbours.

 

This is another one of those " not to be believed" humanitarian organisations.

 

https://reliefweb.int/report/occupied-palestinian-territory/palestinians-west-bank-2023-was-deadliest-year-record 

 

I can't find anything about only one in five settler violence was against purely peaceful people.

I would like to see confirmation of that claim from an independent source.

 

Do you believe in international law and the Geneva convention ?

The Isreali settlements are violating the fourth Geneva convention.

The displacement of Palestinians due to their land being taken from them for those illegal settlements violate article 49 of the fourth Geneva convention.

 

Do you believe in the rules based international order ?

 

https://www.chathamhouse.org/2024/01/will-war-gaza-become-breaking-point-rules-based-international-order

 

" The Palestinian conflict is exposing the inherent contradictions, in the West's stance as the guarantor of the international order " 

 

And if you are wondering about that source, Chatham House, Russia has declared them " undesirable" in Russia.

 

https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-chatham-house-undesirable/31793383.html

 

 

 

This is a circle of hatred that has been going on for decades that both sides contribute to.

They both commit acts of violence that can't be condoned.

 

There is one massive difference.

 

One of those groups have a state/nation.

The other group is stateless.

[Ilunga]

12 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

IMO peace will be closer when guys looking like;

 

Vigilante's?

White supremacists with axes?

 

Are not allowed to roam around any neighborhood.  Israel needs to be responsible for arresting and bringing to justice such violators...

 

 

 

 

" One of hundreds of attacks since October 7 "

 

If a Palestinian did this he would be labelled a terrorist. 

 

Not one person apart from me acknowledged this post.

[Optimist Prime]

BC's leiutenant governor was at one of my favourite restaurants today, in support of Palestine. Safaa has been running an awareness campaign with banners all over her beautiful Esquimalt restaurant.

[Canuck Surfer]

Arabic Palestinian leader in 1944, quoted while staying in Nazi Germany;

 

[Canuck Surfer]