Super19 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Arabic Palestinian leader in 1944, quoted while staying in Nazi Germany; Have you not read what Ben-Gurion has had to say in around the same time period? “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: We have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 David Ben-Gurion in his diary, 1948: “What is necessary is strong and cruel reactions. …We must strike mercilessly, women & children included. There’s no need to distinguish between guilty and innocent.” - David Ben-Gurion, War Diaries (1947-1949) CONTRIBUTORS: Edited by: Gershon Rivlin، Elhanan Orren Fast forward to today. Entire families wiped out. Tens of thousands of women and children killed. And Israeli officials saying some fucked up shit - and doing even worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 46 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Arabic Palestinian leader in 1944, quoted while staying in Nazi Germany; So according to the Holocaust encyclopaedia https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/hajj-amin-al-husayni-wartime-propagandist The same Mufti that was exiled from Palestine ? " With out any institutional basis for authority over Arabs in the middle east, the former Mufti of Jerusalem Hajj Amin al Husayni sought public recognition from the Axis powers of his status as a leader of a proposed Arab nation. " " The Germans, and Hitler in particular repeatedly denied al Husayni's request for the legitmisation. " They were reluctant to iniate unnecessary disputes with Italy and Vichy France, and harboured doubt's about his actual authority in the Arab world " Now none of this legitmise's Husayni's comments, however an exiled Mufti that had no real power in the Arab world ? And the Germans and Hitler repeatedly denied his request for legitmisation ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 58 minutes ago, Super19 said: Have you not read what Ben-Gurion has had to say in around the same time period? “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They see but one thing: We have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” “Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves … politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves… The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country. … Behind the terrorism [by the Arabs] is a movement, which though primitive is not devoid of idealism and self sacrifice.” — David Ben Gurion. Quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky’s Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan’s “Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech. “We must do everything to insure they (the Palestinians) never do return.” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948: Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes: “The old will die and the young will forget.” “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, a Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978. “If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.” Ben-Gurion (Quoted on pp 855-56 in Shabtai Teveth’s Ben-Gurion in a slightly different translation). “It’s not a matter of maintaining the status quo. We have to create a dynamic state, oriented towards expansion.” –Ben Gurion The " irony " of the ignorance of Ben Gurion's comment, " Our god is not theirs " Jews, Christians and Muslims all believe in the Abrahamic " god " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 22 hours ago, Super19 said: I feel like parts of capitalism is just like one big rat race that ignores workers who get exploited by the big pursuits of those who "work hard to get ahead". Everyone is free to get ahead and be a boss, but these bosses then rely on people who do indeed work hard and help run their businesses but are living on minimum wage in living conditions that are increasingly getting harder to keep up with. If everyone chased their capitalistic dreams, whose gonna be there to work the minimum wage jobs? So your solution is everyone should make minimum wage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 On 2/3/2024 at 11:28 PM, Canuck Surfer said: IMO peace will be closer when guys looking like; Vigilante's? White supremacists with axes? Are not allowed to roam around any neighborhood. Israel needs to be responsible for arresting and bringing to justice such violators... 7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Arabic Palestinian leader in 1944, quoted while staying in Nazi Germany; Sooooooo, Weeeeeee! What a reaction this 2knd post drew? It was Ben Gurion... * Blame * Finger pointing * Hatred * Denial & distancing? * Justification Myself, I had suggested in a previous reply(s), Israel was created 'in spite' of David Ben Gurion. Not because of him! Philosophized even in the Ukraine thread before Oct 7 that Jews, like Arab's, even my ancestral Ukrainian fore bearers. Also Romani, Kurds, Bosniaks, Prussians? I could go on. It was & is endless, exhaustive in the face of of being wiped out during World Wars. Cultures, in response to hatred, war. Being hunted themselves? All retreated back into family and religious groups, their own home tribes? Became just as programmatic. I tried to invent the word POGROMATIC; started their own witch hunts & pogroms. Culling competing tribes with zeal & purpose. To shelter their own? Sure Jews did this, absolutely! It's also murder. I need not be convinced who was a prick! @Ilunga It is also why Jews needed a home. As do the Palestinians now. Each needs their own Gandhi, Martin Luther King Jr? Commit to non violent protest. Each needs to police themselves. Create justice, hold their own accountable! Stop their own settler violence to other tribes! With a goal of peace. Hamas has the same POGRAMATIC view in the teachings of Mufti Husseini built into their own Manifesto. Written in the 70's (80's?) while forming. On it's first pages with the same conclusion. Kill all Jews. NO! The cycle has to stop somewhere. @Super19's Palestinian culture, I presume you are a part? Will only find peace when players like Yahya Sinwar are ousted. Ideally by their own! @RomanPer's Jews when Yoav Gallant is kept in jail for his hate crimes. Is joined by Settlers. Roman said Israelis do not want Gaza. Yet now some do? Salivate over it. The cycle will only stop when each culture stops their own from barbarous acts. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 We keep fighting about shit that happened before we were born, here on a hockey forum based in Canada...and yet every one of us expects the people of Israel and Gaza to work this out peacefully. What a fools errand. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: People who can't contribute equally, cannot be treated equally ? So just because a person might not work as hard as you do, then they are not entitled to the same human rights and freedoms you have ? That's what I mean by people being treated equally. I actually stated twice that all should be treated equally and fairly. But you seem to be consistently ignoring parts of my posts to create a better argument. That combined with it just being a waste of time to argue with a communist makes me want to end this discussion. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: Too many people not willing to pull their weight ? Yes. We all see it first hand. Not going to waste time discussing it. If you don’t see the laziness out there, that’s on you. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: Most economists state when you are down to 3-4 percent unemployment, most of the " employable " people have jobs. Here in Aus we are at 3.9 percent unemployment. And what about the underdeveloped/ third world countries, where they not only don't have the opportunities we do, in some cases western countries exploit their workforce. You really should do some research before stating things that are incorrect. Russia does not have a communist government. It has been described as variously, as a kleptocracy, an oligarchy or a Plutocracy. It is a Crony capitalistic government. Sure they ‘left’ communism in the early 90s, they are still living it and feeling the effects. And it’s not good. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvgc61tr https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/05/31/russias-oily-and-gassy-crony-capitalism-the-path-to-kleptocracy/ Fat Mike is a capitalist ? For starters he started his own record label so he could pay the bands he signed to it more than the big companies. Fat records used to sell their records and CD's cheaper than the big record companies before streaming fucked them all. And he donates a percentage of profits he makes to charities of various sorts. He lives and dresses much the same as he did when he started 40 years ago. If as you claim you have play with them and are conversant with the Punk scene, you would know this. Blah blah blah. Go ask some of the boys on Fat how well Mike pays them. Hahahah The guys owns a label making money off the other bands. The guy owns a travelling festival loaded with corporate sponsors, which he makes money off of. The guy is an on and off again drunk/junky who is the last person anyone should be looking up to. At your age, it’s sad you haven’t figured this shit out. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: No just stop it. People have not lived what I have am talking about. How many times does it have to be said that communism has been a failed experiment because it doesn't take into account human nature. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: Marx's ideas have never truly been put into practice. For good reason, and unfortunately for you, it’s not gonna happen. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: Capitalism has taken human nature into account, it rewards greed. It rewards those who go get it. 17 hours ago, Ilunga said: But of course you will find justification for the fact that in the the US, 20 percent of the population controls 86 percent of the wealth, while 80 percent of the population controls 14 percent of the wealth. Those 20 percent work so much harder right ? Just like those bankers that caused the GFC and then took taxpayers money, to not only bail out their institutions, but fund their own bonuses after destroying millions of people's lives, who lost their jobs, their wealth and their homes in many cases. As for the rest, stop projecting on me. You are the person complaining and telling us all what your rights should be. I have not called for a communist government, please quote me where I stated this. I simply stated the five economic ideas that Marx wrote about, are ideas I admire. And you have stated that you agree with some of them. So why your head is hurting has nothing to do with me. Maybe its because you can't interpret my posts correctly. The only thing I have complained about is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom" 50 percent of the population holds .75 of the wealth. Betcha if you were in that bottom 50 percent you wouldn't be very happy about it. So many words with so little said. I’ve been in the bottom. I was born and raised in the bottom. I decided I didn’t want to continue that and did something about it. Your Marx bs breeds failure. It all starts out good, but eventually human nature kicks in and the theory is out the window. People need to be able to be compensated for going above and beyond. Not the other way around. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 23 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said: Go ask some of the boys on Fat how well Mike pays them. Hahahah The guys owns a label making money off the other bands. Dont want to derail but can you expand on this? What is the average royalty rate for those signed to his label? I was once signed to a major label, A&M records Canada. This was around the same time as fat was getting off the ground.. I would like to see how the 'pay' compares. Also, can you name a label that doesn't try to make some money or at least recoup off the artists they sign? I cant imagine a world without Fat WreckChords. The opportunities that they provided to great artists that may have never been give some light is many. And, man can Fat Mike ever write lyrics...top shelf. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 an hour ago Source Broadcasting Authority: The Israeli army is likely to resolve the military operation in Khan Yunis, south of Gaza, within a week 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: Dont want to derail but can you expand on this? What is the average royalty rate for those signed to his label? I was once signed to a major label, A&M records Canada. This was around the same time as fat was getting off the ground.. I would like to see how the 'pay' compares. Also, can you name a label that doesn't try to make some money or at least recoup off the artists they sign? I cant imagine a world without Fat WreckChords. The opportunities that they provided to great artists that may have never been give some light is many. And, man can Fat Mike ever write lyrics...top shelf. I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus and name names, but about 5 years ago I played a show with a Fat band at the fortune sound club, and their roadie was the singer for another fat band. I didn’t ask any percentages or anything like that, so I can’t honestly tell you. We were chatting downstairs and they both mentioned the biggest benefit to being in a Fat band, is just being in a fat band. I was pretty stoked to be playing with them, and went a touch fan boy on them. Hahaha. People come out to the shows whether they know the band or not, because there is basically an implied level of quality from the label. So you get that added boost and someone else doing most of your tour booking. Fans of the label are likely to become a fan of your band. You make most your money from touring, and album sales don’t pay great. Im not saying Mike is a monster. He is a great musician and a smart businessman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 3 hours ago, D.B Cooper said: I actually stated twice that all should be treated equally and fairly. But you seem to be consistently ignoring parts of my posts to create a better argument. That combined with it just being a waste of time to argue with a communist makes me want to end this discussion. Yes. We all see it first hand. Not going to waste time discussing it. If you don’t see the laziness out there, that’s on you. Sure they ‘left’ communism in the early 90s, they are still living it and feeling the effects. And it’s not good. Blah blah blah. Go ask some of the boys on Fat how well Mike pays them. Hahahah The guys owns a label making money off the other bands. The guy owns a travelling festival loaded with corporate sponsors, which he makes money off of. The guy is an on and off again drunk/junky who is the last person anyone should be looking up to. At your age, it’s sad you haven’t figured this shit out. For good reason, and unfortunately for you, it’s not gonna happen. It rewards those who go get it. So many words with so little said. I’ve been in the bottom. I was born and raised in the bottom. I decided I didn’t want to continue that and did something about it. Your Marx bs breeds failure. It all starts out good, but eventually human nature kicks in and the theory is out the window. People need to be able to be compensated for going above and beyond. Not the other way around. I haven't ignored any of your posts, I have addressed every point you have made. You have actually agreed with me that people should be treated equally. That was my point, plain and simple. I am a communist ? Never been a member of a communist party anywhere. And as for my Marxist BS, you have actually agreed with some of those ideas. Go check your posts. I certainly don't see much laziness. There is always a few people that don't want to work,so yes they don't deserve to rewarded in the same way as a person who wants to contribute to society. As I stated we, here in Australia are nearly at full employment in regards to employable people. Ooh look just a few charities that Mike donates to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protect:_A_Benefit_for_the_National_Association_to_Protect_Children https://www.thefader.com/2016/11/21/15-artists-labels-donating-proceeds-charity And he has started up the Punk rock museum in Vegas giving back to the scene. You can actually go in and play the some of the instruments he has assembled. Yes he owns a label, however it is well known in the industry he pays better than the big labels. And he used to sell records and CD'S cheaper to the public, they used to have stickers on them stating make sure you don't pay more than $20. Before streaming fucked it all. I note you have totally ignored my points about the distribution of wealth and the GFC. Those hardworking bankers right ? As for Russia still feeling the effects of communism, that's plain BS. Putin and his cronies have been ripping of the Russian people for over 20 years. Communism ended over 30 years ago. You keep making this about you. You were poor. You worked hard. Well so have a lot of people. Where did I say that people shouldn't be rewarded for working hard ? I didn't. Where did I say that people who work harder than others should be rewarded the same as those that don't ? I didn't. You were in the scene ? You admire Propagandi ? You are living up to our punk ideals, and betcha the boys from propagandi would love reading your posts. And again I am not a communist. Quote me where I claimed I was one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, D.B Cooper said: I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus and name names, but about 5 years ago I played a show with a Fat band at the fortune sound club, and their roadie was the singer for another fat band. I didn’t ask any percentages or anything like that, so I can’t honestly tell you. We were chatting downstairs and they both mentioned the biggest benefit to being in a Fat band, is just being in a fat band. I was pretty stoked to be playing with them, and went a touch fan boy on them. Hahaha. People come out to the shows whether they know the band or not, because there is basically an implied level of quality from the label. So you get that added boost and someone else doing most of your tour booking. Fans of the label are likely to become a fan of your band. You make most your money from touring, and album sales don’t pay great. Im not saying Mike is a monster. He is a great musician and a smart businessman. So when challenged and you can't come up with any facts. You claimed you know shit and now you don't. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus and yet you already have. So that off again on again drunk/ junky is also a great musician and a smart businessman. And I should not admire him ? I admire him mainly because of the fact that as @bishopshodan notes he is an incredible lyricist. The way he links words together and makes people feel. And by your own standards he has built a record company, owns a travelling show. And has a legion of fans around the world. Just the other night Stevo from the Clowns stated how Stoke he was to have signed with fat wreck chords. This post speaks for itself in regards to your credibility. Edited February 5 by Ilunga 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Interesting news post, kinda misleading headlines. Surfer takes; * Humanitarian catastrophe * Peace Tentative Truce offer by Israel and mediators rejected by Hamas. Next video; * Lotsa blame, Israel, one of its far right ministers anyway, rejects & is critical of US assertion they should not be taking further land. >>>> I don't know what argument would be justified. Well if we had to clear terrorists, we might as well keep it? Surfer rejects this full stop! Settlements non starter. * Surfer further asserts a larger section of Israeli society must be OK with settlements, certainly enough RW extremist ones anyway. * What about the fights in hospitals? * I prefer Israel to lay off a hospital, but there are bigger moral issues with terrorists hiding, operating & shooting from such sites. * Just like I prefer them not to use a bunker busting bomb when a terrorist shoots from atop a building. * Both show complete contempt of the civilian population. Hamas who invites the attack. Israel for taking it up. * Right now Hamas is still under the hospital, still in Rafah. And rejecting an offer for at worst a temporary ceasefire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 Communism ended over 30 years ago. No Communism ended in 1926 When Stalin took control. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted February 4 Share Posted February 4 (edited) 4 hours ago, D.B Cooper said: I’m not going to throw anyone under the bus and name names, but about 5 years ago I played a show with a Fat band at the fortune sound club, and their roadie was the singer for another fat band. I didn’t ask any percentages or anything like that, so I can’t honestly tell you. We were chatting downstairs and they both mentioned the biggest benefit to being in a Fat band, is just being in a fat band. I was pretty stoked to be playing with them, and went a touch fan boy on them. Hahaha. People come out to the shows whether they know the band or not, because there is basically an implied level of quality from the label. So you get that added boost and someone else doing most of your tour booking. Fans of the label are likely to become a fan of your band. You make most your money from touring, and album sales don’t pay great. Im not saying Mike is a monster. He is a great musician and a smart businessman. I actually worked for the company that booked Fortune Sound Club around that time but I had moved on from the nightclub division. I agree there is 'no use for a name' ( haha, I dont think it was them) So, you are saying that bands that sign with Fat get immediate cred, a following and the possibility to go on a massive punk festival tour. You also dont know the royalty rate for releases, which I bet was better than what my band got from A&M. They also have been complimented for offering 'the one record deal'. That is something very, very cool. https://medium.com/@fasmith3/fat-wreck-chords-and-the-beauty-of-the-one-record-deal-506de261b7ec Anyway, I think you are off base on your criticism of the way Mike has made money. His band is legendary and his label has opened doors for many bands. If the roadie/singer that you talk about was talented enough to make money in the very tough music world, I cant see Fat Wreckchords standing in the way. In fact they help nobody bands start out with some momentum...as you have mentoned. Edited February 5 by bishopshodan 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 53 minutes ago, Spur1 said: Communism ended over 30 years ago. No Communism ended in 1926 When Stalin took control. If truly socialist and communist countries are so great for 'the people' why do the governments have to control the population at gunpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 6 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: We keep fighting about shit that happened before we were born, here on a hockey forum based in Canada...and yet every one of us expects the people of Israel and Gaza to work this out peacefully. What a fools errand. I would hope that at some point people would get tired of a certain way of life, but doesn't appear to be the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: If truly socialist and communist countries are so great for 'the people' why do the governments have to control the population at gunpoint? Name me one truly communist country. I can name a few including Canada that are mostly socialist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 minute ago, Spur1 said: Name me one truly communist country. I can name a few including Canada that are mostly socialist. There really isn't one, but the ones that claim to be do it by force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spur1 Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 5 minutes ago, Bob Long said: There really isn't one, but the ones that claim to be do it by force. That is when they are no longer communist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 1 hour ago, bishopshodan said: I actually worked for the company that booked Fortune Sound Club around that time but I had moved on from the nightclub division. I agree there is 'no use for a name' ( haha, I dont think it was them) So, you are saying that bands that sign with Fat get immediate cred, a following and the possibility to go on a massive punk festival tour. You also dont know the royalty rate for releases, which I bet was better than what my band got from A&M. They also have been complimented for offering 'the one record deal'. That is something very, very cool. https://medium.com/@fasmith3/fat-wreck-chords-and-the-beauty-of-the-one-record-deal-506de261b7ec Anyway, I think you are off base on your criticism of the way Mike has made money. His band is legendary and his label has opened doors for many bands. If the roadie/singer that you talk about was talented enough to make money in the very tough music world, I cant see Fat Wreckchords standing in the way. In fact they help nobody bands start out with some momentum...as you have mentoned. I never said he was doing anything wrong and I didn’t agree he does a lot of good things. I’m a Mike/Fat/Nofx fan. Im just saying, at the root of it all, he is still a capitalist 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 18 minutes ago, Bob Long said: There really isn't one, but the ones that claim to be do it by force. Those damned peasants eh. Forcing those the wonderful Russian elite,who had treated them so well, to abdicate and then forming a socialist government. How terrible of them. https://www.history.com/topics/european-history/russian-revolution " The leaders of the provisional government, including a young Russian lawyer Alexander Kerensky, established a liberal program of rights such as freedom of speech, equality before the law and the right of unions to organise and strike. They opposed violent social revolution. Such terrible things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 20 minutes ago, D.B Cooper said: I never said he was doing anything wrong and I didn’t agree he does a lot of good things. I’m a Mike/Fat/Nofx fan. Im just saying, at the root of it all, he is still a capitalist So you are a fan, yet you state he is the last person I should be looking up to ? This just gets better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 39 minutes ago, Spur1 said: That is when they are no longer communist. It's a flawed theory that has never worked in practice. It's not even really truly aspirational. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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