Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

well, some rando on twitter is upset, so sorry Roman, you have to hide it I guess. Its like someone forgot we already had identity clothing and policing arguments already. 

 

 

I'm actually glad they are posting it - they are revealing their true antisemitic colors without realizing it. And I'll be happy to be there, along the way, sticking their faces into their own piss...

[Bob Long]

Just now, Super19 said:

Hence why I questioned if he is a Zionist. Nothing wrong with being Jewish, although having that patch on a VPD uniform may not be up to code.

 

who cares if he is/was? what bearing would it have on him doing his duty?

[Bob Long]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

I'm actually glad they are posting it - they are revealing their true antisemitic colors without realizing it. And I'll be happy to be there, along the way, sticking their faces into their own piss...

 

I find it tiresome and I'm not even Jewish. I'm also not sure what the specific issue is. How is this supposed to effect his/her job? 

[RomanPer]

2 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Hence why I questioned if he is a Zionist. Nothing wrong with being Jewish, although having that patch on a VPD uniform may not be up to code.

 

Sure, you are only distributing antisemitic material, but you yourself are not antisemitic, you are just "asking questions"...

[RomanPer]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Hence why I questioned if he is a Zionist. Nothing wrong with being Jewish, although having that patch on a VPD uniform may not be up to code.

 

And if he IS a Zionist - what is wrong with that? You made it sound like it's some sort of government recognized terrorist organization. Sadly for you - it's not. Unlike your sweethearts Hamas. So, suck it up, buttercup...

[Super19]

Is the VPD antisemitic now?
 

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Is the VPD antisemitic now?
 

 

 

Wow you must be so proud of yourself. All youve done with your little setup is show you are not a person to be taken seriously. Well done.

[Super19]

15 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

And if he IS a Zionist - what is wrong with that? You made it sound like it's some sort of government recognized terrorist organization. Sadly for you - it's not. 

It's my opinion that there's a lot wrong with the extremist Zionist movement displayed by the government in Israel right now - one that has them at The Hague for charges of genocide.

[4petesake]

48 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

who cares if he is/was? what bearing would it have on him doing his duty?

 

A lot to this guy.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

The most obvious ''last Oct 7?''

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2020/10/17/visegrads-rape-camps-denial-and-erasure

 

For the record Muslim women being slaughtered and raped and murdered by white people.  This is what genocide actually looks like.  In case anybody feels Putin is a supporter of Islamic faiths? Many volunteers came from Soviet intelligence, including several who came to be key operators during Georgian, Syrian and Moldovan 'put-downs.' Not to mention Ukrainian.

 

Out of 14,000 Bosniaks who lived in Višegrad before the war, about 3,000 were killed, often in the public executions on that famous Ottoman bridge, which served as an inspiration for Yugoslav author Ivo Andrić’s novel The Bridge on the Drina.

 

The killings on the bridge in June 1992 were on such a mass scale that according to British journalist Ed Vulliamy, Višegrad’s police inspector Milan Josipović received “a macabre complaint from downriver, from the management of Bajina Basta hydro-electric plant across the Serbian border”. The plant’s director requested to “slow the flow of corpses down the Drina”, since “they were clogging up the culverts in his dam at such a rate that he could not assemble sufficient staff to remove them”.

 

On June 14 and 27, 1992, more than 120 civilians, mostly women and children, including a two-day-old infant, were locked in two houses in Pionirska Street in Višegrad and Bikavac area which were then set ablaze.

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, StrayDog said:

Please point out where I said you're not allowed to post anything. I stated that your posts come across as arrogant and patronizing, and you might want to think about how you phrase them if you don't want to be called offensive.

You should probably not question if people value the truth, since that comes back to being arrogant and patronizing (which is offensive)

The bolded statements I pointed out before both read as you saying I don't like facts and don't value truth. 

I'm good with researching Aspberger's, thanks. I have family who have been diagnosed and my wife has been working with autistic students for the last 20+ years. I know what it can do. However, that does not give you license to be an offensive poster. If you want to be less offensive (and I believe you do) you would do better without the phrasing you frequently use, including the "Try researching..." you used above. Your tone needs work. 

Since you ignored the rest of my post and just called out the reality sucks part, I'm not going to respond to you anymore since you clearly didn't like my answer and will only cherry-pick what you respond to. If you only want to talk about what you want to talk about, that not a discussion - that's a monolog.

 

Every single post you make it personal, insulting me, stating I come across as offensive and patronizing.

 

 

Seeing as you have experience with people with autism I would have hoped you would be more understanding of my condition.

 

I had already dealt with the rest of your post by stating in a previous post that I believe it is wrong that the majority should pay the price for the actions of a few.

You actually agreed with me, stating , " no I don't agree with that "

What you then went on to say was something about terrorists and airports.

I don't know what that had to do with what we were discussing, and I still don't.

This is why I didn't reply to that part of your post. 

Also I believe that it is obvious that I wouldn't want my son or friends in the company of terrorists.

 

When you talk about the reality of the situation.

It is not only the Palestinian employees of UNRWA that are paying the price for the actions of its also the Palestinians people themselves.

 

" Israeli is holding up food for 1.1 million Palestinian in Gaza, the main UN agency there says. "

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/israel-holding-food-11-million-palestinians-gaza-main-107101377

 

" UNRWA's director Phillipe Lazzarini said Friday that a convoy of food donated by Turkey has been sitting for weeks in the Israeli port of Ashdod. The agency said that the Isreali contractor they work with received a call from Israeli custom authorities, ordering them not to process any UNRWA goods.

 

The stoppage means that 1049 shipping containers of rice, flour, chickpeas, sugar and cooking oil - enough to feed 1.1 million people for a month - are stuck, even as an estimated 25 percent of families face catastrophic hunger.

 

The World Program warned  Friday that Gaza could be plunged into famine as early as may. The UN food agency defines a famine as when 30 percent of children are malnourished, one fifth of households face acute food shortages and two of every 10,000 people are dying from hunger and malnutrition. "

 

 

Then there is also those accusations Israel made, which is all they are, about UNRWA people being involved in the October the 7th attack.

 

" Scandal Israeli dossier provides no evidence for claims against UNRWA staff " 

 

https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-dossier-unrwa

 

" An Israeli dossier that more than a dozen countries have cited to justify cutting off funding to the United nations Palestinians refugee agency " provides no evidence " that a small number of the key UN aid body's employees were involved in the October 7 lead Hamas attack according to an investigation released Monday by the British outlet channel 4. 

 

The dossier merely states that, from intelligence information, documents and identity cards seized during the course of fighting, it is now possible to flag around 190 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists operatives who serve as UNRWA employees. 

 

More than 10 UNRWA took part in the events of (October 7) reads the six page dossier which Isreal provided to UNRWA donor countries - including the agencies top contributor the United States - shortly after the international court of justice (ICJ) handed down an interim decision ordering Israel to take concrete steps to prevent genocide in the Gaza strip "

 

Happy coincidence that, Israel handing over that dossier just after the ICJ's ruling.

 

" Chanel 4 noted Monday that all 13,000 of UNRWA's Gaza employees' names " have been checked against the UN terrorism list and, as recently as May, were vetted and approved by Israel. "

 

" UNRWA staff accused by Israel of sacked without evidence chief admits "

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/09/head-of-unwra-says-he-followed-reverse-due-process-in-sacking-accused-gaza-staff

 

" The head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees has said he followed " reverse due process " in sacking 9 staff members accused by Israel of being involved in Hamas' October 7 attacks.

 

Phillipe Lazzarini UNRWA's commissioner general said he did not prove Israel's claims against the employees before dismissing them and launching an investigation. 

 

At a press conference in Jerusalem Lazzarini was asked if he had looked into whether there was any evidence against the employees and he replied " no the investigation is going on now "

 

For full disclosure as I don't want to take the time to copy all the rest of the article he does try to justify his decision by stating the " explosive " nature of the claims and the long  running claims against the UNRWA.

 

Do you think it is fair to be the victim of reverse due process in regards to not just your job but being called a Terrorist ? 

I don't.

 

 

Now so far these have been only accusations, no evidence has been provided to back them up.

They might be true, they might not be.

I thought we live in societies where we punish people when they are convicted of the crime they are accused of.

Part of that process is providing evidence to prove they are indeed guilty of what you are accusing them of.

 

Especially when over a million people are paying such a high price for the alleged actions of a few.

[Bob Long]

32 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

 

A lot to this guy.

 

 

 

What a knob. 

[4petesake]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

What a knob. 

Multiple run-ins with VPD as well.

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

Multiple run-ins with VPD as well.

 

Someone should defund him 

[Canuck Surfer]

13 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

" The head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees has said he followed " reverse due process " in sacking 9 staff members accused by Israel of being involved in Hamas' October 7 attacks.

 

Phillipe Lazzarini UNRWA's commissioner general said he did not prove Israel's claims against the employees before dismissing them and launching an investigation. 

 

This is who should have been sacked. 

 

I am also not convinced Turkeys intentions are entirely noble!  They have 'their own' refugee's in Northern Syria & Zaatari and Azraq refugee camps in Northern Jordan. These people sleeping in open air, with a shortage of tents, foods, 3 & 8 years after being left stateless, homeless.  Plus masses of Kurdish homeless who have been dispelled from homesteads exactly as Israeli settlers have displaced Bedouin & Palestinians.  And in numbers that dwarf refugee's from Gaza, even where not as immediately critical due to wartime brutality. 

 

I am highly suspicious corruption ain't a bigger problem. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

These groups keep attacking Israel.  Its dumb!  It's like Georgia & Ukraine attacking Russia like Moldova is rumoured to be about to do?

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This is who should have been sacked. 

 

I am also not convinced Turkeys intentions are entirely noble!  They have 'their own' refugee's in Northern Syria & Zaatari and Azraq refugee camps in Northern Jordan. These people sleeping in open air, with a shortage of tents, foods, 3 & 8 years after being left stateless, homeless.  Plus masses of Kurdish homeless who have been dispelled from homesteads exactly as Israeli settlers have displaced Bedouin & Palestinians.  And in numbers that dwarf refugee's from Gaza, even where not as immediately critical due to wartime brutality. 

 

I am highly suspicious corruption ain't a bigger problem. 

 

The important point of all this IMO is that 1.1 people, according to that abc news article, are on the brink of famine.

Children are not getting enough to eat. 

Currently this ranks as one of the worlds biggest humanitarian crises.

 

This came up at the top of my google feed when I searched Gaza humanitarian Crisis.

 

" A catastrophic lack of food in Gaza means that families are going for days without a meal - 2.2 million people the entire population of Gaza - is experiencing food insecurity at crisis level or above. 

The World Food Programme is already warning that the threat of famine in Gaza is looming "

 

One article states 1 million people, the other over 2 million.

What is patently obvious is that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza.

 

 

Who cares about the " nobility" of the Turkish or any other country that wants/or is donating aid to the Palestinian people.

The fact that they are donating aid and that aid is being held up due to accusations, that so far lack any evidence to back them up, is what I am questioning.

 

Why should millions of people be punished like this for the actions of a few ?

 

I believe this is wrong.

 

What I am also questioning is due process, the lack thereof.

Providing evidence to back up your accusations, especially when so many are being " punished " as a consequence of those accusations.

[Canuck Surfer]

13 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Providing evidence

 

The evidence is the food hasn't arrived.  Countries pulling funding is based on the intelligence community, not that Israel made claims in the media?  Even Biden does not like Israel's exacerbated attack on Gaza. So funding was not pulled willy nilly.

 

Turkey is all over the shop in Geopolitics. Also in various militant Islamic issues in multiple arena's. Nor have they ever cared about civilian populations.  If they were determined to provide aid, it could have been there.  

[Ilunga]

26 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

The evidence is the food hasn't arrived.  Countries pulling funding is based on the intelligence community, not that Israel made claims in the media?  Even Biden does not like Israel's exacerbated attack on Gaza. So funding was not pulled willy nilly.

 

Turkey is all over the shop in Geopolitics. Also in various militant Islamic issues in multiple arena's. Nor have they ever cared about civilian populations.  If they were determined to provide aid, it could have been there.  

 

While I agree with some of what you are stating, I don't really think this is important.

 

What I believe is important and what I really care about is millions of people are going hungry.

 

Isreals accusations against the UNRWA are contributing to this.

 

Like I don't know what else to say mate, I find this situation heartbreaking.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

While I agree with some of what you are stating, I don't really think this is important.

 

This portion will be over soon.  I cannot stop Israel from attacking. I would have preferred a siege. But it appears they are not leaving armed battalions behind.

 

I do take note Hamas, reportedly is down to 4 divisions. Sinwar was hiding underneath Khan Yunis with MILLIONS of dollars in a safe. Underneath the UNRWA center where they had a computerized center capable of communications anywhere in the world. Sinwar & Hamas planned & executed both the start of this war.  Also its current defense. Israel could show mercy?

 

So could Hamas.  They could disarm voluntarily?  Or could have continued to build their society & defense without having initiated the offensive in the first place. That they have been stealing money. That their other business & strategic partners are as murderous and corrupt as Haniyeh & Sinwar does little for my confidence that 'humanitarian aid?' Would make its way through without the leaders taking a cut. 

 

This war is still going on because those bastards do not wish to give up their toe hold on how they have been making money! It has been a gold mine since taking over from Arafat. They don't give a sh!t about Palestinian civilians. See them using pipes delivering fresh water as tubes for launching missiles. People claim Israel is genocidal for attacking hospitals. But someone shoots missiles and AK47's from said hospitals. Then find tunnels under every one. And they disappear leaving civilians under duress. I repeat; they don't give a sh!t. You trusted Erdogan, or Hezbollah, or other autocratic militant leaders to deliver peace?  I did not in spite of my feelings for those caught in crosshairs.

 

Never have.  

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This portion will be over soon.  I cannot stop Israel from attacking. I would have preferred a siege. But it appears they are not leaving armed battalions behind.

 

I do take note Hamas, reportedly is down to 4 divisions. Sinwar was hiding underneath Khan Yunis with MILLIONS of dollars in a safe. Underneath the UNRWA center where they had a computerized center capable of communications anywhere in the world. Sinwar & Hamas planned & executed both the start of this war.  Also its current defense. Israel could show mercy?

 

So could Hamas.  They could disarm voluntarily?  Or could have continued to build their society & defense without having initiated the offensive in the first place. That they have been stealing money. That their other business & strategic partners are as murderous and corrupt as Haniyeh & Sinwar does little for my confidence that 'humanitarian aid?' Would make its way through without the leaders taking a cut. 

 

This war is still going on because those bastards do not wish to give up their toe hold on how they have been making money! It has been a gold mine since taking over from Arafat. They don't give a sh!t about Palestinian civilians. See them using pipes delivering fresh water as tubes for launching missiles. People claim Israel is genocidal for attacking hospitals. But someone shoots missiles and AK47's from said hospitals. Then find tunnels under every one. And they disappear leaving civilians under duress. I repeat; they don't give a sh!t. You trusted Erdogan, or Hezbollah, or other autocratic militant leaders to deliver peace?  I did not in spite of my feelings for those caught in crosshairs.

 

Never have.  

 

 

 

 

I still don't see how any of this has to do with millions of people starving. When aid could be distributed by an outside party,or if the Isrealis are really worried about arms and such, oversee the aid themselves.

 

One of the biggest reasons they(the Israelis) let the UNRWA do this in the first place was so they weren't responsible for providing aid to the Palestinians. 

 

I know the war is still going on because of Hamas but does that mean starving 2 million people is justified ?

I have also stated that Hamas does not care about the Palestinian people.

 

Again the majority paying the price for the actions of a few ? 

 

I have never trusted Erdogan or Hezbollah full stop.

I have made my feelings very clear in other threads how I feel about the " sultan of Turkey "

[Optimist Prime]

Just out of pure curiosity: what history have you read where a nation attacked in an act of war has any liability to feed the people who started the war? I can't think of anything as absurd as being mad that Israel isn't more nice to the people who attacked them. 

 

"I can't believe Ukraine isn't sending more grain to Tatarstan!" (A Russian region)

[Optimist Prime]

I can't believe Boko Haram isn't getting food relief from the African National Congress.

[Super19]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just out of pure curiosity: what history have you read where a nation attacked in an act of war has any liability to feed the people who started the war? I can't think of anything as absurd as being mad that Israel isn't more nice to the people who attacked them. 

 

"I can't believe Ukraine isn't sending more grain to Tatarstan!" (A Russian region)

 

In bringing up history you will find this war did not start on Oct 7.  Anyway,

 

• Under International Humanitarian Law, Israel is considered the "Occupying Power" in the "Occupied Territories" of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip captured during the 1967 war. Its conduct as an occupying power is governed by two major international instruments that relate to the treatment of civilians during war and in occupied territories: the 1907 Hague Regulations annexed to the Convention (IV) Respecting the Laws and Customs of War on Land, and the 1949 Fourth Geneva Convention Relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Time of War.

 

• "Article 55 requires Israel to ensure "the food and medical supplies of the population;" and Article 56 requires that "medical personnel of all categories shall be allowed to carry out their duties.""

 

• "The International Committee of the Red Cross, the international body charged with monitoring and promoting adherence to the Geneva Conventions, has discussed Israel's obligations in a November 2000 public statement:
• As an Occupying Power, Israel may restrict the freedom of movement of the resident population, but only when and in so far as military necessity so dictates. Restrictions on movement by means of curfews or the sealing-off of areas may in no circumstances amount to collective penalties, nor should they severely hinder the daily life of the civilian population or have dire economic consequences. Moreover, the Occupying Power has the duty to ensure an adequate level of health care, including free access to hospitals and medical services, and may not obstruct the circulation of food supplies. All institutions devoted to the care and education of children must be allowed to function normally. Religious customs must be respected, which implies access to places of worship to the fullest extent possible.⁶⁹

 

 

• Collective penalties and all measures of intimidation and terrorism carried out by the occupying power have only one purpose: to make the population of the occupied territory submissive. Such measures may take different forms, such as a curfew preventing the inhabitants from fulfilling their daily duties, punishment or detention of several members of a group or family for an alleged offense by one member, or the destruction of the house belonging to the family of an alleged offender. Such acts are prohibited, without exception, by Article 33 [of the Fourth Geneva Convention]

 

 

 

 

Oh boy, Israel has taken collective punishment to a whole new level now.
 

 

https://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel/hebron6-04.htm

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

Just out of pure curiosity: what history have you read where a nation attacked in an act of war has any liability to feed the people who started the war? I can't think of anything as absurd as being mad that Israel isn't more nice to the people who attacked them. 

 

"I can't believe Ukraine isn't sending more grain to Tatarstan!" (A Russian region)

 

Again way to twist what I have stated.

 

Isreal is under no obligation to feed the millions of people who did not attack them.

 

Remember it was Hamas fighters that attacked them, not 2 million plus Palestinians. 

 

And also remember the reason why Israel handed the job of doing this to the UNRWA in the first place.

So they weren't responsible for providing aid to the Palestinians.

 

What they are obligated to do under international law is allow aid to non combatants/ civilians.

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/91424/the-law-of-relief-action-is-israel-required-to-allow-fuel-into-gaza/

 

" IHL (International Humanitarian Law) prohibits the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare. This prohibition is enshrined in articles 54 para. 1 of additional protocol 1 (AP 1) 

article 14 of additional protocol 11 (AP 11) and customary humanitarian law. 

While it is undisputed that these provisions cover the wilful starvation of civilians, it is less clear how the law applies to the pursuit of a military goal leading to its incidental causation. As I have argued elsewhere sieges are not per se prohibited under these regulations but there is an absolute red line that may not be crossed. As soon as civilians are in need meaning " in fact " inadequately for survival denying access of humanitarian aid...may constitute a violation of the prohibition of starvation as the ICRC explains. 

Consequently even though Israel is neither state party to AP 1 or AP 11 Israel could be required under customary international law to provide or allow for civilians to receive necessary humanitarian aide if its affirmative conduct - such as complete siege - may otherwise cause mass starvation "

 

Apart from international humanitarian law, 

Does your heart tell you that millions of people who are on the brink of famine is a proportionate response to the events of October 7 ?

 

My heart and sense of reason tells me this is not a proportionate response.

And I believe the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is heart breaking. 

 

Politely as possible, however don't you realise how ridiculous your analogy between the Ukraine war and the war in Gaza is.

 

One nation state, Russia, invaded another nation state Ukraine, and has continued to both occupy and attack them for the last 2 years.

Neither the Ukrainian or Russian people for that matter are starving.

 

A stateless Terror Group Hamas, attacked the nation state, Israel, killing 1200 people , then a day or two later crawled back into their holes in the ground back in Gaza.

While Isreal has been attacking them in Gaza for the last 4 months, killing thousands of civilians, causing the massive destruction to both homes and infrastructure, and as has been pointed out, put over 2 million people on the brink of famine. 

 

Apart from the fact that these are both armed conflicts, they are both completely different circumstances/ scenarios to each other.