Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Again way to twist what I have stated.

 

Isreal is under no obligation to feed the millions of people who did not attack them.

 

Remember it was Hamas fighters that attacked them, not 2 million plus Palestinians. 

 

And also remember the reason why Israel handed the job of doing this to the UNRWA in the first place.

So they weren't responsible for providing aid to the Palestinians.

 

What they are obligated to do under international law is allow aid to non combatants/ civilians.

 

https://www.justsecurity.org/91424/the-law-of-relief-action-is-israel-required-to-allow-fuel-into-gaza/

 

" IHL (International Humanitarian Law) prohibits the starvation of civilians as a method of warfare. This prohibition is enshrined in articles 54 para. 1 of additional protocol 1 (AP 1) 

article 14 of additional protocol 11 (AP 11) and customary humanitarian law. 

While it is undisputed that these provisions cover the wilful starvation of civilians, it is less clear how the law applies to the pursuit of a military goal leading to its incidental causation. As I have argued elsewhere sieges are not per se prohibited under these regulations but there is an absolute red line that may not be crossed. As soon as civilians are in need meaning " in fact " inadequately for survival denying access of humanitarian aid...may constitute a violation of the prohibition of starvation as the ICRC explains. 

Consequently even though Israel is neither state party to AP 1 or AP 11 Israel could be required under customary international law to provide or allow for civilians to receive necessary humanitarian aide if its affirmative conduct - such as complete siege - may otherwise cause mass starvation "

 

Apart from international humanitarian law, 

Does your heart tell you that millions of people who are on the brink of famine is a proportionate response to the events of October 7 ?

 

My heart and sense of reason tells me this is not a proportionate response.

And I believe the humanitarian crisis in Gaza is heart breaking. 

 

Politely as possible, however don't you realise how ridiculous your analogy between the Ukraine war and the war in Gaza is.

 

One nation state, Russia, invaded another nation state Ukraine, and has continued to both occupy and attack them for the last 2 years.

Neither the Ukrainian or Russian people for that matter are starving.

 

A stateless Terror Group Hamas, attacked the nation state, Israel, killing 1200 people , then a day or two later crawled back into their holes in the ground back in Gaza.

While Isreal has been attacking them in Gaza for the last 4 months, killing thousands of civilians, causing the massive destruction to both homes and infrastructure, and as has been pointed out, put over 2 million people on the brink of famine. 

 

Apart from the fact that these are both armed conflicts, they are both completely different circumstances/ scenarios to each other.

 

 

Well said.

 

Reading between the lines you will quickly realize that Israel is indeed starving all of Gaza and doing everything to accomplish this goal as a means to eliminate Hamas. Collective punishment. War crime. Who in their right mind defends this tactic? The more sinister version of this is Israel is intending on a full scale ethnic cleansing/genocide. I mean, if this isn't ethnic cleansing, what is it? Cram everyone in Rafah as the only designated safe zone and then proceed to kill them and TERRORIZE the Gazans. 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

I can't believe Boko Haram isn't getting food relief from the African National Congress.

 

Seriously.

 

Are you comparing over 2 million Palestinian civilians to the terror group Boko Haram ?

 

Are all Palestinians now part of Hamas ?

 

You do realise what your governments position on aid to the Palestinians is.

The government you worked for.

 

 

" Canada provides additional humanitarian assistance to in Gaza "

 

https://www.canada.ca/en/global-affairs/news/2024/01/canada-provides-additional-humanitarian-assistance-in-gaza.html 

Dated Jan 30th

 

" Canada wholeheartedly recognises  that Palestinians need for Humanitarian assistance is growing by the hour. The scale of the humanitarian crisis in the Gaza strip continues to require our urgent attention and immediate response. We must insure that Palestinians civilians who need life saving assistance receive it quickly "

 

Your government recognises the fact that civilians shouldn't be punished for the actions of extremists. 

Canadians as a whole are a bloody good bunch of people.

 

How would you feel if the roles were reversed.

I would absolutely be arguing for aid for the Isrealis.

 

Fuck it I will use Mike's words again

 

" And human rights and freedom are just words 

That have lost all their meaning in a world that is bleeding "

 

More words from that song, 

 

" Will we see the end of civility "

 

I read one post today that said 

 

" And I will be happy to be there, along the way, sticking their faces into their own piss "

 

Really Optimist ?

 

Do you consider that comment civil ?

[JIAHN]

Just some random thoughts

 

- I think no one wants to hear about people starving, but there are plenty of people starving all over the world. Their voices never heard. 

- HAMAS are Palestinians, they are part of that society, and are supported by a vast amount of those 1 million starving people.

- Historically, War has always been brutal...beheadings, bombs, gas, Nukes, starvation, executions, genocide, etc....(through out time) By most cultures!

- War/Headlines/politics, etc, are always 2 sided, and those on the loosing side always cry. (rightfully! so)

 

I think you could go on and on, about the hypocrisy of world opinion....of Liberal and Conservative view points...it is endless

 

We here can have a discussion, but we are bitchers and have lofty opinions, and will never go to these places and try to help, nor will most pick up the phone and complain to their MP, nor will they contribute to the Red Cross or the Red Crescent.

 

It is much like China's human rights issue, but we support them daily buying their Veggies, their toys, their pharma , etc..............does Canadian society boycott, do you?

I highly doubt it!

 

Ukraine is another issue, as we sit in our warm homes, as people die. Do we march and demand, that Canada, grabs all Russian assets in Canada, kicks out Russians, puts pressure on these manufacturers that produce those pieces that go into Russian missiles? Demand that other countries do the same, or will suffer a economic blockade  of their own.

 

No we do not do any of these things......or you do one and feel good as you sit over your laptop, sure have a discussion.......but is that good enough?

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, JIAHN said:

Just some random thoughts

 

- I think no one wants to hear about people starving, but there are plenty of people starving all over the world. Their voices never heard. 

- HAMAS are Palestinians, they are part of that society, and are supported by a vast amount of those 1 million starving people.

- Historically, War has always been brutal...beheadings, bombs, gas, Nukes, starvation, executions, genocide, etc....(through out time) By most cultures!

- War/Headlines/politics, etc, are always 2 sided, and those on the loosing side always cry. (rightfully! so)

 

I think you could go on and on, about the hypocrisy of world opinion....of Liberal and Conservative view points...it is endless

 

We here can have a discussion, but we are bitchers and have lofty opinions, and will never go to these places and try to help, nor will most pick up the phone and complain to their MP, nor will they contribute to the Red Cross or the Red Crescent.

 

It is much like China's human rights issue, but we support them daily buying their Veggies, their toys, their pharma , etc..............does Canadian society boycott, do you?

I highly doubt it!

 

Ukraine is another issue, as we sit in our warm homes, as people die. Do we march and demand, that Canada, grabs all Russian assets in Canada, kicks out Russians, puts pressure on these manufacturers that produce those pieces that go into Russian missiles? Demand that other countries do the same, or will suffer a economic blockade  of their own.

 

No we do not do any of these things......or you do one and feel good as you sit over your laptop, sure have a discussion.......but is that good enough?

 

I take issue with this post.

 

As I have stated many times I support, give money to a couple of human rights institutions, and support/sponsor both children over seas and within my own country. 

My parents taught me to do this and my heart tells me this is the right thing to do.

 

Even if it's just a discussion board talking about these people is giving them a voice.

For example I started a thread on the old board about the Humanitarian crisis in Yemen. 

 

Also I have mentioned quite a few times, I believe the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I have written to both my local member and my national " member ", who used to be a real " member ", Tony Smith who was at the time, speaker of our parliament. 

I believe that we as voters don't just have a voice at the ballot box, but in voicing our concerns to the people who are meant to represent us.

Do I strike you as a person who is backwards in coming forward ?

 

As for products from China, I try and buy my electrical products from south Korean companies.

Samsung mostly.

My fridge and washing machine are Aussie made, and so is my dishwasher, my hands. 

My car is over ten years old, one of the last two be built in Aus.

It also runs on LPG as all my cars since the 90's have.

A Shitload better for the environment than petrol or diesel engined cars.

 

As for toys I do admit to buying Lego my son loves it.

Some of it is made in china.

 

Regarding fruit and veggies I am lucky, I live in a farming area and I get most of my product locally, supporting a couple of locals who are having a crack.

They have a bigger version of the hicks from letterkenny's road side stall.

 

My government, the Australian government first imposed sanctions on Russia back in 2014 and extended them in 2015, 2022 and again last year.

 

As for feeling good, I try and live as sustainablely as possible. 

Right now I am sitting in the dark, the TV is on.

I never use a heater or the cooler, split system.

Put on more layers when I am cold, walk around the house in my undies when it is hot.

One of the bonuses of being single.

 

Most of these things I have mentioned before on the old board. 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

Seriously.

 

Are you comparing over 2 million Palestinian civilians to the terror group Boko Haram ?

 

Are all Palestinians now part of Hamas ?

 

Hamas is the ruling party?  Not that comparisons to other terrorist groups are completely invalid...

 

If anything that Hamas is a terrorist group is absolutely my own point.  That Sinwar was in jail for strangling, with his own bare hands, opposition internally in Gaza to Hamas says everything! Do Palestinians deserve better?

 

Everyone deserves better than what is occurring.  Who else is going to get rid of Hamas though?  Let's skip the word Hamas, who amongst Palestinian people is not inextricably linked to the goals of it's ideology...  If people don't want to live under Hamas ideology, the PLO preceding it? That ruling ideology has always determined it had exclusive rights to contested territory. Palestinians had & have two choices;

 

Fight or flight?   

 

Many choose to fight with their 'tribe,' their historical family. Just trying to survive. Is it a humanitarian disaster?  Yes. Fair? Not really.

 

Do women & children, elderly, even those fighting age males quietly defiant have the same access and rights to make such decisions. No! And perhaps not? Maybe Israel should not steal land, let settlers run rampant. That mobs who share that they would prefer Sharia Law funnel money to corrupt leaders, corral civilians, minorities and keep themselves in power militantly? Oddly / not oddly just like like Boco Haram! instead of a secular society where everyone has rights? Who will kill, rape and mutilate to gain power leaving civilians without choice. This corrupt feudal leadership structure remains across most of the Middle East, much of the Islamic & 3rd world. 

 

Groups like Hamas would be at war with, or without Israel.  

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Hamas is the ruling party?  Not that comparisons to other terrorist groups are completely invalid...

 

If anything that Hamas is a terrorist group is absolutely my own point.  That Sinwar was in jail for strangling, with his own bare hands, opposition internally in Gaza to Hamas says everything! Do Palestinians deserve better?

 

Everyone deserves better than what is occurring.  Who else is going to get rid of Hamas though?  Let's skip the word Hamas, who amongst Palestinian people is not inextricably linked to the goals of it's ideology...  If people don't want to live under Hamas ideology, the PLO preceding it? That ruling ideology has always determined it had exclusive rights to contested territory. Palestinians had & have two choices;

 

Fight or flight?   

 

Many choose to fight with their 'tribe,' their historical family. Just trying to survive. Is it a humanitarian disaster?  Yes. Fair? Not really.

 

Do women & children, elderly, even those fighting age males quietly defiant have the same access and rights to make such decisions. No! And perhaps not? Maybe Israel should not steal land, let settlers run rampant. That mobs who share that they would prefer Sharia Law funnel money to corrupt leaders, corral civilians, minorities and keep themselves in power militantly? Oddly / not oddly just like like Boco Haram! instead of a secular society where everyone has rights? Who will kill, rape and mutilate to gain power leaving civilians without choice. This corrupt feudal leadership structure remains across most of the Middle East, much of the Islamic & 3rd world. 

 

Groups like Hamas would be at war with, or without Israel.  

 

As you have just pointed out, Hamas rules through/by fear. 

 

I read Primals comment on Boko Haram as a back handed attempt at comparing them to the Palestinian people.

The people I have been arguing for in regards to receiving aide.

His comment was about them, Boko Haram receiving aide.

I certainly haven't stated that Hamas should receive aide and never will.

 

Let's take the two choices you have given the Palestinian people, fight or flight.

 

I have already dealt with the fight scenario in regards to what I would do.

Would you risk your family, especially your kids in fighting them, I wouldn't.

Would you lead the charge, be in the first wave attacking them.

I would have probably thought about this back in the days of my misspent youth when I did some crazy shit, however now at 60 and with a son to support, even though I don't see him,I know my limitations.

 

Flight, where are they going to go ?

 

This article details why their "  Arab Brethren" don't want to take them in.

 

https://apnews.com/article/palestinian-jordan-egypt-israel-refugee-502c06d004767d4b64848d878b66bd3d

 

Also why should the Palestinians give up the little that is left of their home land ? 

 

Palestinian Ideology under the PLO which was a secular nationalist organisation has changed under Hamas to a more religiously oriented Ideology.

 

 

https://carnegieendowment.org/sada/20790

 

Can't be bothered at this hour of the night to copy things from the article however there are quite a few factors involved in the change under Hamas, including both Palestinians, Isrealis and outside factors.

 

Apart from all of this, I will ask you one simple question.

Stating in advance I know you well, and I know you a very decent person with a shit load of humanity for others. 

 

Do you believe that Isreals actions since October 7 are a proportionate response, killing thousands of women and children, virtually destroying Gaza itself, putting nearly 2 million people on the brink of famine.

All of this is proportionate for the killing of 1200 people ?

 

And please don't get me wrong those 1200 peoples lives are just as important as the thousands of Palestinian lives that have been lost, and the millions of more that are at risk of dying. 

 

Remember the larger percentage of lives we are talking about here, are women and children.

The people who are always the real victims of war.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Screams with silence!

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Do you believe that Isreals actions since October 7 are a proportionate response,

 

You have asked me this before.

 

No I don't. I advocated for an increased siege.

 

Its not that we have a choice though.  The reality of my opinions have changed greatly with recent wars. I used to be against the death penalty.  

 

I see a great deal of support for Palestinians being liberal. Wanting a good outcome for Palestinians. Not all, much is militant, ideological. I also see it, often, as naive.  Netanyahu can be voted out.  Putin and Haniyeh, Asaad, similar will only be displaced from power by death; likely losing a war. Israeli people suffered as much extinction at the hands of others as anyone in history.  I don't blame them for fighting for a state of their own.  You do not always get to choose where though? 

 

I do have blame for Israel taking it too far?  I do!  Its my opinion there is, however, truth to Arabic groups wishing for their complete demise. I remember crying as a boy when I heard about the Olympic massacre in Germany. Planes being hijacked. It's my opinion, repeatedly stated, that warlords and gangs have been the primary enemy. Impossible to reason with? I cannot comprehend people falling in line with leadership that did what occurred Oct 7.  I don't share opinions that this is a longstanding persecution of Palestinians; even though that has truth, has been an outcome more than twice over history. 

 

It might not even be a moral / amoral decision. Strategically, every 12 or 15 years Israel destroys 'enough' opposing military power. When it has started to accumulate.

 

Strategically, Palestine has chose war, not to co-exist. It has not gone well for them. What i see as tragic? 

 

Is the extent of corruption, infusion of ideology which has led to a culture choosing to be slaughtered. Greed of conmen. Theological, martyred & its a win? Power driven, sheer blood lust & hate at times! Repeating the same mistakes. 

 

Again & again & again!

 

If I had a crystal ball?  I would suggest we will be back here in 15 years...

 

 

[Ilunga]

21 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You have asked me this before.

 

No I don't. I advocated for an increased siege.

 

Its not that we have a choice though.  The reality of my opinions have changed greatly with recent wars. I used to be against the death penalty.  

 

I see a great deal of support for Palestinians being liberal. Wanting a good outcome for Palestinians. Not all, much is militant, ideological. I also see it, often, as naive.  Netanyahu can be voted out.  Putin and Haniyeh, Asaad, similar will only be displaced from power by death; likely losing a war. Israeli people suffered as much extinction at the hands of others as anyone in history.  I don't blame them for fighting for a state of their own.  You do not always get to choose where though? 

 

I do have blame for Israel taking it too far?  I do!  Its my opinion there is, however, truth to Arabic groups wishing for their complete demise. I remember crying as a boy when I heard about the Olympic massacre in Germany. Planes being hijacked. It's my opinion, repeatedly stated, that warlords and gangs have been the primary enemy. Impossible to reason with? I cannot comprehend people falling in line with leadership that did what occurred Oct 7.  I don't share opinions that this is a longstanding persecution of Palestinians; even though that has truth, has been an outcome more than twice over history. 

 

It might not even be a moral / amoral decision. Strategically, every 12 or 15 years Israel destroys 'enough' opposing military power. When it has started to accumulate.

 

Strategically, Palestine has chose war, not to co-exist. It has not gone well for them. What i see as tragic? 

 

Is the extent of corruption, infusion of ideology which has led to a culture choosing to be slaughtered. Greed of conmen. Theological, martyred & its a win? Power driven, sheer blood lust & hate at times! Repeating the same mistakes. 

 

Again & again & again!

 

If I had a crystal ball?  I would suggest we will be back here in 15 years...

 

 

 

Thanks for the answer.

My stupid memory.

 

As I have stated, I remember vividly the events at the Berlin Olympics. 

 

I believe, from the research I have done, and what someone like me can know, that the Movie Munich seems to be a really accurate depiction of the events both at the time, and those Isrealis whose job it was to track down the terrorists.

I was very surprised by how " normal " these people were, how they were portrayed in the movie.

 

Must see viewing IMO. 

 

Again it all comes down to comprise, get the fuck out of the west bank completely, allow the Palestinians East Jerusalem as their capital, ie pre war 1967 borders, all of which is what the international community supports.

 

Even Hamas amended their charter to accept this resolution.

Not that I want Hamas to exist anymore.

 

As I stated the even the Irish have managed to get their shit together.

 

The nut jobs on both sides of this particular conflict haven't been able to replicate their feat.

 

While the Isrealis might get rid of Hamas, what will replace them ?

 

The right wing fruitcakes in Israel have been getting more powerful over the last few decades.

 

Very similar to how the PLO was a secular nationalist movement, Zionists were to.

Now there are a lot more religious Zionists, they have became a more religiously Nationalist movement, just like Hamas.

Or more to the point, their voice is louder, especially in the government.

 

This article is a good read about the break down of Zionism in Israeli society.

 

https://www.jpost.com/opinion/article-742927

 

One of the big key takeaways aways from that article for me and those " athiests " that are regular contributors to this thread.

 

" for a state without seperation of " church and state " the role of religion in government life has always been a point of discussion in Israel. Israel has never fully clarified the lines where religion plays a role in national policy and the ambiguity of religions role has led to robust debate among Israel's citizens. "

 

Hey Primal, got to seperate the church and state.

 

[JIAHN]

7 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

I take issue with this post.

 

As I have stated many times I support, give money to a couple of human rights institutions, and support/sponsor both children over seas and within my own country. 

My parents taught me to do this and my heart tells me this is the right thing to do.

 

Even if it's just a discussion board talking about these people is giving them a voice.

For example I started a thread on the old board about the Humanitarian crisis in Yemen. 

 

Also I have mentioned quite a few times, I believe the squeaky wheel gets the oil.

I have written to both my local member and my national " member ", who used to be a real " member ", Tony Smith who was at the time, speaker of our parliament. 

I believe that we as voters don't just have a voice at the ballot box, but in voicing our concerns to the people who are meant to represent us.

Do I strike you as a person who is backwards in coming forward ?

 

As for products from China, I try and buy my electrical products from south Korean companies.

Samsung mostly.

My fridge and washing machine are Aussie made, and so is my dishwasher, my hands. 

My car is over ten years old, one of the last two be built in Aus.

It also runs on LPG as all my cars since the 90's have.

A Shitload better for the environment than petrol or diesel engined cars.

 

 

As for toys I do admit to buying Lego my son loves it.

Some of it is made in china.

 

Regarding fruit and veggies I am lucky, I live in a farming area and I get most of my product locally, supporting a couple of locals who are having a crack.

They have a bigger version of the hicks from letterkenny's road side stall.

 

My government, the Australian government first imposed sanctions on Russia back in 2014 and extended them in 2015, 2022 and again last year.

 

As for feeling good, I try and live as sustainablely as possible. 

Right now I am sitting in the dark, the TV is on.

I never use a heater or the cooler, split system.

Put on more layers when I am cold, walk around the house in my undies when it is hot.

One of the bonuses of being single.

 

Most of these things I have mentioned before on the old board. 

 

 

 

 

How in the world did you take that personally, when you do all that? Ilunga I have read most of your posts in this and the Ukraine thread. I seldom or never say negative things about your posts. I have on occasion, asked you questions, so that you can educate me. As a matter of fact, there are several on here that, I hold very high in their opinions on these boards. Generally, I feel that way about you.

 

I will on occasion, post a thread like this to, bring forth, the fact that we as a collective, do not live in either Ukraine or Russia, nor in Israel, or the Middle East, and can not see it from their perspective. It is not to say that their opinion does not have validity, only that it is from our own perspective. You, my friend, have a different perspective, because you have lived part of it. this is why I read your posts. The same can be said for a small group of posters that contribute on a regular basis.

 

I am part of the former, and do not have that unique perspective, therefore I form my opinions based on my own personal bias. I only remind those other posters that do not have those unique perspectives, that we are not Russian, nor Muslims, so therefore we can not understand their perspective. I certainly can not! 

 

I do know, that if I was Ukrainian, I would fight to the death, I would also support the Israeli government towards Hamas. In saying that, the geo-politics are very complexed in the Middle East, and there is wrong on all sides of this conflict. ( As per, taking over lands occupied by Muslim settlers ).  My opinion based on my perspective!

 

I do think this and the Ukraine forum are important in getting information out, and I only caution, it is only information given from one perspective, and when 2 people on here start arguing in a heated debate, they mostly argue from their own perspective, and not those living, or have lived with better perspective.

 

I am often reminded of the truth of the saying.......One mans Terrorist, is another mans Freedom Fighter. It matters on what side of the fence you stand on. It matters what you have been taught, what you have experienced, much more than what you read in a book, or even see on TV.(Which can be manipulated to show the hosts own agenda or perspective.)

 

This also applies to you and the "Others".....it is your perspective. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, just that you have to be honest and keep that in mind, when reading, or commenting. 

 

Bottom line.........I love your comments, as they have a unique perspective, and I find them thought provoking. But I was simply reminding people that perspective is every thing.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16 by JIAHN

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

As I stated the even the Irish have managed to get their shit together.

 

The nut jobs on both sides of this particular conflict haven't been able to replicate their feat.

 

Led by who Conor McGregor?

 

McGregor has specifically focused his would-be policies around immigration so far, saying there’s “a real lapse in national security” in Ireland and that the country needs to deport illegal migrants and form a “task force founded to assess all entrants into Ireland”—one he would call “Ireland Protect.”

[Super19]

 

[Super19]

On 2/14/2024 at 6:21 PM, Alflives said:

In Canada we need (as Canadians) to always put our home first. 

How about the VPD officer displaying a concerning patch on his uniform?

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

While the Isrealis might get rid of Hamas, what will replace them ?

 

This is a the key question; but one for Palestinians not Israel. One I have asked routinely in this thread when many were focussed on blame against Israel! One that should be & should have been Palestinian responsibility? It gets taken out of their hands after events like Oct 7. 

 

If their people would be free? 

 

 

 

I also hold an opinion, it should be obvious with myself posting video about rape and desecration of human rights?  It will start with women, ideally all minorities. Minorities already a shrinking demographic needed to be re-embraced. That ideology exists which sets expectation of roles, even servitude, without rights & especially for women! Or other religious groups. Is a key problem.

 

Demand personal freedom. Security not to have to live in fear!

 

Justice will be a key solution.  People have to reject living under the rule of armed gangs.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 minutes ago, Super19 said:

How about the VPD officer displaying a concerning patch on his uniform?

 

I wore my Ukrainian trident of freedom when I walked around Vancouver.  People wear a necklace with a cross? Nothing wrong with personal freedom, pride.

 

That officer should be judged on their behaviour, how they carry out their duty.  It should always be about behaviour. 

 

Please don't tell me that badge means what a Klu Klux Klan Hoodie means! Or Swastika?

 

 

I'd be concerned if said officer was offering to take their billy stick, enforce crowd control at free Palestine rallies while wearing the badge. If someone otherwise has pride in their culture, commits their life to civil service? That should actually be something to model Its about behaviour... 

 

I have long argued Israel needs to police their own settlers! Palestinians their own rock throwing youth, those who hide terrorists.

 

Be great to see such badges in those roles!

[Super19]

22 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I wore my Ukrainian trident of freedom when I walked around Vancouver.  People wear a necklace with a cross? Nothing wrong with personal freedom, pride.

 

That officer should be judged on their behaviour, how they carry out their duty.  It should always be about behaviour. 

 

Please don't tell me that badge means what a Klu Klux Klan Hoodie means! Or Swastika?

 

 

I'd be concerned if said officer was offering to take their billy stick, enforce crowd control at free Palestine rallies while wearing the badge. If someone otherwise has pride in their culture, commits their life to civil service? That should actually be something to model Its about behaviour... 

 

I have long argued Israel needs to police their own settlers! Palestinians their own rock throwing youth, those who hide terrorists.

 

Be great to see such badges in those roles!

https://www.972mag.com/punisher-symbol-israel-army/

[Super19]

Jewish kid with Arab kid, embracing and in solidarity for Gaza!

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, JIAHN said:

 

How in the world did you take that personally, when you do all that? Ilunga I have read most of your posts in this and the Ukraine thread. I seldom or never say negative things about your posts. I have on occasion, asked you questions, so that you can educate me. As a matter of fact, there are several on here that, I hold very high in their opinions on these boards. Generally, I feel that way about you.

 

I will on occasion, post a thread like this to, bring forth, the fact that we as a collective, do not live in either Ukraine or Russia, nor in Israel, or the Middle East, and can not see it from their perspective. It is not to say that their opinion does not have validity, only that it is from our own perspective. You, my friend, have a different perspective, because you have lived part of it. this is why I read your posts. The same can be said for a small group of posters that contribute on a regular basis.

 

I am part of the former, and do not have that unique perspective, therefore I form my opinions based on my own personal bias. I only remind those other posters that do not have those unique perspectives, that we are not Russian, nor Muslims, so therefore we can not understand their perspective. I certainly can not! 

 

I do know, that if I was Ukrainian, I would fight to the death, I would also support the Israeli government towards Hamas. In saying that, the geo-politics are very complexed in the Middle East, and there is wrong on all sides of this conflict. ( As per, taking over lands occupied by Muslim settlers ).  My opinion based on my perspective!

 

I do think this and the Ukraine forum are important in getting information out, and I only caution, it is only information given from one perspective, and when 2 people on here start arguing in a heated debate, they mostly argue from their own perspective, and not those living, or have lived with better perspective.

 

I am often reminded of the truth of the saying.......One mans Terrorist, is another mans Freedom Fighter. It matters on what side of the fence you stand on. It matters what you have been taught, what you have experienced, much more than what you read in a book, or even see on TV.(Which can be manipulated to show the hosts own agenda or perspective.)

 

This also applies to you and the "Others".....it is your perspective. Absolutely nothing wrong with that, just that you have to be honest and keep that in mind, when reading, or commenting. 

 

Bottom line.........I love your comments, as they have a unique perspective, and I find them thought provoking. But I was simply reminding people that perspective is every thing.

 

 

 

 

 

My reply, especially the part, I take issue with this, was mostly tongue in cheek.

I think you know me well enough to know that. 

 

What I admire about, is you never attack another members character, or take sly little digs at their expense. 

 

I can tell you this, when I was a dumbass kid I would have fought to the death for a " nationalistic " cause, now I would not. 

 

I would fight to the death, give up my own life if it meant saving my son's and other people who I love lives.

But I am certainly not going to give up my life for a piece of dirt.

And I am a farmer, I value dirt.

I am a parent. I have a more important duty than dying for my country.

Think of all the hundreds of millions of people who have died in the name of their country down the centuries.

What a pointless waste of life.

 

In saying this I know I live in the " lucky country " and there is little chance anyone will invade us, still, what is the point in dying for anything apart from your loved ones if you have a choice in the matter.

 

All this does not mean I would not fight to defend my country if I had to, but again I would not fight to the point of deliberately sacrificing my life, last man, last bullet shit.

 

As that nutter George Patton noted,

 

" the object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his "

 

And even that is a crock of shit.

I don't want to kill anyone.

I don't even want to hurt anyone. 

 

As for geopolitics, I know wrong and right, bad and good are subjective things.

What I also know is that when I see all the death and destruction, the pain and suffering in both Israel and Gaza and the occupied territories o believe that many of the acts constitute injustice. 

 

Thanks for the great post Jan, your  respect for others is much appreciated by me.

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Led by who Conor McGregor?

 

McGregor has specifically focused his would-be policies around immigration so far, saying there’s “a real lapse in national security” in Ireland and that the country needs to deport illegal migrants and form a “task force founded to assess all entrants into Ireland”—one he would call “Ireland Protect.”

 

Let's be serious brother.

Who takes this guy seriously ?

 

Getting back to reality, a few weeks ago Sinn Fein vice president Michelle O'Neill was named First Minister of Northern Ireland.

While this was agreed to in the 1998 good friday peace accord it has taken the better part of 30 years to happen.

An Irish nationalist named as the leader of Northern Ireland.

Who woulda thunk this when we were growing up.

 

At least we are one third of the way there in regards to those words from Aussiemandias

 

" And the Irish hate the Irish 

And it's Arab versus Jew

You're cactus if Kurdish "

 

 

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This is a the key question; but one for Palestinians not Israel. One I have asked routinely in this thread when many were focussed on blame against Israel! One that should be & should have been Palestinian responsibility? It gets taken out of their hands after events like Oct 7. 

 

If their people would be free? 

 

 

 

I also hold an opinion, it should be obvious with myself posting video about rape and desecration of human rights?  It will start with women, ideally all minorities. Minorities already a shrinking demographic needed to be re-embraced. That ideology exists which sets expectation of roles, even servitude, without rights & especially for women! Or other religious groups. Is a key problem.

 

Demand personal freedom. Security not to have to live in fear!

 

Justice will be a key solution.  People have to reject living under the rule of armed gangs.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have asked the same question myself.

And also brought up the fact that the current actions of Israel are " breeding " a whole new generation of extremists.

It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario.

 

What is a fact is one people are stateless, the other people are not.

One people pay a greater human cost than the other people do. 

 

As for people focusing the blame on Israel, most of the regular contributors in this thread are, and have been die hard Isreali supporters.

 

I am reasonably certain that a few Palestinian supporters don't even bother to post much.

One explicitly stated his feelings about how this thread is moderated.

 

I still can't believe that someone stated he would stick people's faces into their own piss. 

Do you believe this is acceptable discourse anywhere, let alone on this site ? 

 

The violence against women you bring up is a huge issue.

I grew up with it around me.

Not in my family but in some of my friends families.

One of my friends mum, she had the worst black eyes I have ever seen on a human being.

I was in my early teens and I didn't have the courage to stand up to her husband.

His son was a cop, he didn't even do anything about it. 

 

As for equality, as I have stated a few times, if I can be half the person my mother was, I have done a great job. 

I will never be her equal.

 

As for justice I have made my feelings abundantly clear in this matter many times, in many threads.

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

Jewish kid with Arab kid, embracing and in solidarity for Gaza!

 

A question probably many of us, have asked many times, 

Why do kids have to grow into adults 

[Kootenay Gold]

[JIAHN]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

My reply, especially the part, I take issue with this, was mostly tongue in cheek.

I think you know me well enough to know that. 

 

What I admire about, is you never attack another members character, or take sly little digs at their expense. 

 

I can tell you this, when I was a dumbass kid I would have fought to the death for a " nationalistic " cause, now I would not. 

 

I would fight to the death, give up my own life if it meant saving my son's and other people who I love lives.

But I am certainly not going to give up my life for a piece of dirt.

And I am a farmer, I value dirt.

I am a parent. I have a more important duty than dying for my country.

Think of all the hundreds of millions of people who have died in the name of their country down the centuries.

What a pointless waste of life.

 

In saying this I know I live in the " lucky country " and there is little chance anyone will invade us, still, what is the point in dying for anything apart from your loved ones if you have a choice in the matter.

 

All this does not mean I would not fight to defend my country if I had to, but again I would not fight to the point of deliberately sacrificing my life, last man, last bullet shit.

 

As that nutter George Patton noted,

 

" the object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his "

 

And even that is a crock of shit.

I don't want to kill anyone.

I don't even want to hurt anyone. 

 

As for geopolitics, I know wrong and right, bad and good are subjective things.

What I also know is that when I see all the death and destruction, the pain and suffering in both Israel and Gaza and the occupied territories o believe that many of the acts constitute injustice. 

 

Thanks for the great post Jan, your  respect for others is much appreciated by me.

 

Reading your comments, made me ask the same questions.....

 

I would die to protect my family....no doubt

If we had no where to go, for what ever reason, I would protect my "dirt" as to protect it, prevents the "evil" from hurting my love ones.

I would put my life on the line to extinguish evil, "IF" I knew I had a good chance of succeeding

I would probably try and save other people from bad things, "IF" I thought I would survive

 

I don't know man...when you get right down to it, it about family for me....if they are in danger either directly or indirectly, I would stand up

I would probably do it for my close friends......but I mean very close

 

It is a tough call isn't it!............but then, I am getting soft in my old age. Not that dumb kid, you eluded to.

 

I would still burn down Moscow...but it looks like someone else is doing it for me! 

[RomanPer]

UNRWA posted a new job opening on LinkedIn. The comments are priceless

 

https://www.linkedin.com/posts/unrwa_international-job-opportunity-chief-activity-7162357406675513344-kXIU