Super19 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 11 minutes ago, Super19 said: This guy is clearly mentally ill, seems wrong to exploit that on social media. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 27 minutes ago, Bob Long said: This guy is clearly mentally ill, seems wrong to exploit that on social media. His loved ones had this to say on Twitter, and the OP got consent from his loved ones. “He is one of the most principled comrades I’ve ever known,” said Xylem, who worked with Bushnell to support San Antonio’s unhoused residents. “He’s always trying to think about how we can actually achieve liberation for all with a smile on his face,” said Errico. Someone on twitter thoughts re: "self-immolation". Meanwhile, Zionists had this to say: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: This guy is clearly mentally ill, seems wrong to exploit that on social media. This is your first reaction, to call Aaron mentally ill ? No thoughts for his family and friends ? My first response is sympathy and compassion for him, and his loved ones, whether he was mentally ill or not. As for exploiting this, Malcolm Brown won a Pulitzer prize for international reporting, also winning world press photo of the year in 1963 for his photo of Thich Quang Duc. The Buddhist monk who immolated himself in 1963, protesting the Vietnam war. Was he mentally ill ? No, he and his compatriots were planning that action. https://time.com/3791176/malcolm-browne-the-story-behind-the-burning-monk/ How do you know Aaron did not have the same mindset as Thich Quang Duc ? It's obvious from his backstory, his friend talks about princpled he was, and how he wanted to help others, that he was a kind, compassionate person. My thoughts are with his family and friends. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 14 minutes ago, Ilunga said: This is your first reaction, to call Aaron mentally ill ? Really can't expect much better from Zionists and their sympathizers. Their original deleted post was even worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 hours ago, Super19 said: His loved ones had this to say on Twitter, and the OP got consent from his loved ones. “He is one of the most principled comrades I’ve ever known,” said Xylem, who worked with Bushnell to support San Antonio’s unhoused residents. “He’s always trying to think about how we can actually achieve liberation for all with a smile on his face,” said Errico. Someone on twitter thoughts re: "self-immolation". Meanwhile, Zionists had this to say: All I see is a vulnerable person who didn't get the help they needed, and others happy to exploit it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 8 hours ago, Ilunga said: This is your first reaction, to call Aaron mentally ill ? No thoughts for his family and friends ? My first response is sympathy and compassion for him, and his loved ones, whether he was mentally ill or not. As for exploiting this, Malcolm Brown won a Pulitzer prize for international reporting, also winning world press photo of the year in 1963 for his photo of Thich Quang Duc. The Buddhist monk who immolated himself in 1963, protesting the Vietnam war. Was he mentally ill ? No, he and his compatriots were planning that action. https://time.com/3791176/malcolm-browne-the-story-behind-the-burning-monk/ How do you know Aaron did not have the same mindset as Thich Quang Duc ? It's obvious from his backstory, his friend talks about princpled he was, and how he wanted to help others, that he was a kind, compassionate person. My thoughts are with his family and friends. Clearly the person was mentally ill though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 minute ago, Alflives said: Clearly the person was mentally ill though. apparently its a contest to see who cares more, or first, or something. I really find it sad that things can get so abstracted that vulnerable folks get into terrible situations like this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: apparently its a contest to see who cares more, or first, or something. I really find it sad that things can get so abstracted that vulnerable folks get into terrible situations like this. Yup. The guy clearly needed mental help. Yet some exploit this fellows’ family by including politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AatuD2 Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: Yup. The guy clearly needed mental help. Yet some exploit this fellows’ family by including politics. Was the man who stood in front of the tank with his shopping bags in Tiananman Square mentally ill? I think that people get labelled differently depending who you support. Here is the news segment 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 43 minutes ago, AatuD2 said: Was the man who stood in front of the tank with his shopping bags in Tiananman Square mentally ill? I think that people get labelled differently depending who you support. Here is the news segment 100% different. Again the mentally ill should not be exploited, and nor should their families. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 1 hour ago, AatuD2 said: Was the man who stood in front of the tank with his shopping bags in Tiananman Square mentally ill? can you explain how you would view this as equivalent? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 On 2/24/2024 at 10:02 PM, Super19 said: Where is the middle ground here? Supporting a ceasefire you apparently support Hamas/terrorism and are antisemetic. Vetoing a ceasefire and supporting Israels right to defend itself apparently means you support genocide. Ceasefire or no ceasefire? Where is the middle ground? Israel stops? Hamas surrenders? Ceasefire & diplomacy makes both happen. Quit finger appointing again please! Its like me saying its obvious you support the rape & obliteration, slaughtering by hand & weapons of civilians Oct 7. Palestine will never have a country till it takes responsibility for peace. Same in Yemen. Israel is losing standing for its violence, not doing itself any favours as you point out. Yemen will be war torn for years, has exponentially more death than Gaza. The way for you to support Palestine is distance from terrorists. Hamas is fighting a war it cannot win. It does not even have to be an ethical! It's bone dead stupid; like an average drunk scrapper at the pub taking on Mike Tyson. The way you support Yemeni people is not to support Houthis. 3 million dead the last cpl of years. Yemen is bombing boats for two reasons; neither of which is real solidarity with Palestine. #1 They want to hold the 30KM Bab al Mandab Straight between the Red Sea & Gulf of Eden hostage. Their corrupt leaders will make billions if they can coerce licensed passage. #2 Oil prices go up, which more so for Iran than Houthi's makes its Islamic leadership rich. Houthis principal & primary supply of weapons is Iran, their only hold on what power they have in their region. Weapons means they get payola and run the markets, all trade for roughly 20 Million people. People are fools to think this is about Palestinians. Don't expect Yemen to come out of civil war anytime soon either. Nor people to get a share in economic growth. Its the same with Gaza. Haniyeh makes money controlling tunnels. Hamas is an enterprise, not a noble defense of its people! People are happily sacrificed to keep these in charge of their enterprises. Its why Sinwar is with hostages personally. Nobody can make a deal without him. Hanyeh cannot cut him out, make a deal that keeps him in control. War with Israel a different enemy 'worse' than themselves, Hamas is what they sell. People are just now realizing Hamas is not defending them after all. People are dying while they hide in the tunnels. Your goal should be to dispatch such corruption amongst Palestinians. Calling for Cartels to create more chaos, cheering for civilian boats to be attacked is playing in to death for your own people. People will stop dying if more Palestinians call for the release of the hostages. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted February 26 Share Posted February 26 Starting to uncover the root cause of this conflict...still have layers to go through but here is what I have so far: admittedly not a good time for humour, i was unaware of the immolient above. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, Alflives said: Clearly the person was mentally ill though. How do you know he was mentally ill ? As I have pointed the Buddhist monk who immolated himself in protest against the Afghan war wasn't mentally ill. He and his fellow monks had planned some extreme act like that for months. How do you know what Aaron's mindset was ? Are you trained in psychology or psychiatry to give a professional diagnosis ? Which is actually slanderous if untrue. You are labelling him mentally ill with no knowledge about Aaron whatsoever about his character, apart from this act. As for his actions being exploited, this is a " political " act. Aaron himself wanted his action to be publicised. 6 hours ago, Alflives said: Yup. The guy clearly needed mental help. Yet some exploit this fellows’ family by including politics. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aaron-bushnell-self-immolation-what-we-know.html " In the hours before his death, Bushnell emailed several left leaning websites alerting them to his " highly disturbing " final act. " Today I am planning to engage in an extreme act against the genocide of the Palestinian people " read the email that was forwarded to the BBC " And here is what a expert in non violent change has to say https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2024/02/26/what-a-self-immolation-says-about-bidens-gaza-problem-00143308 " Your trying to shock the consciousness with self immolation " said David Cortright, a long time expert in non violent social change who was an active duty soldier when he protested the Vietnam war, told NatSec daily. " The desire to inspire is absolute there. " Members of the service he added " feel they have committed a mission and are committed to that mission, moral principles " and it's clear that the airman was driven by " extreme frustration with the response to the conflict in Gaza " All of this backs up what Aaron's friend stated, about what sort of person he was. I can tell you what I find fucked up, the fact that a secret service agent pointed a gun at him while he was burning alive https://news.yahoo.com/why-did-cops-point-gun-213508789.html " While Bushnell lay dying on the ground engulfed in flames, officers from the US secret service aggressively tried to give him orders and pointed a weapon at him. " One of the agents had compassion for Aaron " I don't need guns " another agent shouted in frustration " I need fire extinguishers " What is sad is that, the " side " that supports Israel calls Aaron mentally ill. Without offering any compassion to his family and friends. Without any knowledge about his mental health. Aaron is the second person to immolate himself protesting against this war in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67597395 I could not even find out this person name or any history about him. My thoughts are with his loved one's. Self immolation has been an act of protest for millenia. Were the 40 Tibetans who self immolated in 2012 protesting Chinese rule mentally ill ? https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-terrible-act-of-reason-when-did-self-immolation-become-the-paramount-form-of-protest " The sociologist Emile Durkheim seperated suicide into four types: the egotistic, the altruistic, the anomic ( moral confusion ) and the fatalistic. Perhaps self immolation captivates so thoroughly because it's wins on all accounts. It is both the ultimate act of both despair and defiance, a symbol at once of resignation heroic self sacrifice. " " Out breaks of protests self immolations followed for decades, from Czechoslovakia to Korea, from France to Kurdistan, Iran to Switzerland. Usually self immolation is a way for the weak to protest against the powerful. But sometimes it's the opposite. In the course of six weeks in 1990, according to Biggs, about 200 hundred Indian university students from high castes set themselves on fire to protest the government's decision to open up spots to the untouchables. Why? What motivated them? I put the question to any number of historians of self immolation, but the best answer came from a scholar based in Washington D.C., " fire is the most dreaded of all forms of death " he said, " so the sight of someone setting themselves on fire is simultaneously an assertion of intolerability, and, frankly, of moral superiority. You say, " I would never have the guts to do that. It's not that he's trying to tell me something, but that he's commanding me. This isn't insanity. It's a terrible act of reason. " After reading this and a few other scholarly articles/ treatises about self immolation, and taking into account what his friend stated about him, I don't believe Aaron was mentally ill. I believe the information I have provided gives some insight into Aaron's mindset. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gordon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Super19 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 13 minutes ago, Ilunga said: How do you know he was mentally ill ? As I have pointed the Buddhist monk who immolated himself in protest against the Afghan war wasn't mentally ill. He and his fellow monks had planned some extreme act like that for months. How do you know what Aaron's mindset was ? Are you trained in psychology or psychiatry to give a professional diagnosis ? Which is actually slanderous if untrue. You are labelling him mentally ill with no knowledge about Aaron whatsoever about his character, apart from this act. As for his actions being exploited, this is a " political " act. Aaron himself wanted his action to be publicised. https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/aaron-bushnell-self-immolation-what-we-know.html " In the hours before his death, Bushnell emailed several left leaning websites alerting them to his " highly disturbing " final act. " Today I am planning to engage in an extreme act against the genocide of the Palestinian people " read the email that was forwarded to the BBC " And here is what a expert in non violent change has to say https://www.politico.com/newsletters/national-security-daily/2024/02/26/what-a-self-immolation-says-about-bidens-gaza-problem-00143308 " Your trying to shock the consciousness with self immolation " said David Cortright, a long time expert in non violent social change who was an active duty soldier when he protested the Vietnam war, told NatSec daily. " The desire to inspire is absolute there. " Members of the service he added " feel they have committed a mission and are committed to that mission, moral principles " and it's clear that the airman was driven by " extreme frustration with the response to the conflict in Gaza " All of this backs up what Aaron's friend stated, about what sort of person he was. I can tell you what I find fucked up, the fact that a secret service agent pointed a gun at him while he was burning alive https://news.yahoo.com/why-did-cops-point-gun-213508789.html " While Bushnell lay dying on the ground engulfed in flames, officers from the US secret service aggressively tried to give him orders and pointed a weapon at him. " One of the agents had compassion for Aaron " I don't need guns " another agent shouted in frustration " I need fire extinguishers " What is sad is that, the " side " that supports Israel calls Aaron mentally ill. Without offering any compassion to his family and friends. Without any knowledge about his mental health. Aaron is the second person to immolate himself protesting against this war in the US. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-67597395 I could not even find out this person name or any history about him. My thoughts are with his loved one's. Self immolation has been an act of protest for millenia. Were the 40 Tibetans who self immolated in 2012 protesting Chinese rule mentally ill ? https://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/a-terrible-act-of-reason-when-did-self-immolation-become-the-paramount-form-of-protest " The sociologist Emile Durkheim seperated suicide into four types: the egotistic, the altruistic, the anomic ( moral confusion ) and the fatalistic. Perhaps self immolation captivates so thoroughly because it's wins on all accounts. It is both the ultimate act of both despair and defiance, a symbol at once of resignation heroic self sacrifice. " " Out breaks of protests self immolations followed for decades, from Czechoslovakia to Korea, from France to Kurdistan, Iran to Switzerland. Usually self immolation is a way for the weak to protest against the powerful. But sometimes it's the opposite. In the course of six weeks in 1990, according to Biggs, about 200 hundred Indian university students from high castes set themselves on fire to protest the government's decision to open up spots to the untouchables. Why? What motivated them? I put the question to any number of historians of self immolation, but the best answer came from a scholar based in Washington D.C., " fire is the most dreaded of all forms of death " he said, " so the sight of someone setting themselves on fire is simultaneously an assertion of intolerability, and, frankly, of moral superiority. You say, " I would never have the guts to do that. It's not that he's trying to tell me something, but that he's commanding me. This isn't insanity. It's a terrible act of reason. " After reading this and a few other scholarly articles/ treatises about self immolation, and taking into account what his friend stated about him, I don't believe Aaron was mentally ill. I believe the information I have provided gives some insight into Aaron's mindset. Thankyou. Very well put together. Still not sure if you can explain this to the very same people/ideology Aaron died in protest against. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, Super19 said: Thankyou. Very well put together. Still not sure if you can explain this to the very same people/ideology Aaron died in protest against. I bet people in Hamas who train people to strap bombs to themselves can explain it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Gordon Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I bet people in Hamas who train people to strap bombs to themselves can explain it. That'd be a tough course. You'd have to die to pass it... Edited February 27 by Jack Gordon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 minutes ago, Jack Gordon said: That'd be a tough course. You'd have to die to pass it... I wish the kid that set himself on fire had someone in his life that could have talked him down. Sad waste of so much potential. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 17 minutes ago, Super19 said: Thankyou. Very well put together. Still not sure if you can explain this to the very same people/ideology Aaron died in protest against. This is not just about Aaron, though it upsets me that people label him mentally ill, while at the same time express no compassion for him, or his loved ones at all. They jump to this conclusion with out knowing much about Aaron at all. What we do know is the information you posted in regards to what his friend told us about him. That he was a princpled person, that he had compassion for others, outside of this conflict. What Aaron's act illustrates, is that people have used this form of protest for Millenia, and while some of them may have to indeed had some mental health issues, they can't all have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AatuD2 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 hours ago, Bob Long said: can you explain how you would view this as equivalent? First one that popped into my mind where someone committed suicide in protest to his country's government. Calling him mentally ill is very convenient if you're trying to excuse Israel's disputed genocide that is taking place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, AatuD2 said: First one that popped into my mind where someone committed suicide in protest to his country's government. It's a war not in his country, tho. Just now, AatuD2 said: Calling him mentally ill is very convenient if you're trying to excuse Israel's disputed genocide that is taking place. That's your spin, not mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AatuD2 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: It's a war not in his country, tho. That's your spin, not mine. You're the one that suggested that he's mentally ill. I'm not spinning anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, AatuD2 said: You're the one that suggested that he's mentally ill. I'm not spinning anything. I do think he was, but I don't have a political reason or spin for saying it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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