Hamas attacking Israel

[Super19]

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

Hey Roman, question for you:

 

Are Palestinian people -

A) Animals
B) Hamas
C) People
D) wait, Palestine doesn't exist, what are you talking about?

 

I might answer your questions when they become serious, not this type of bs.

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, RomanPer said:

Well, I call things the way I see them. You don’t have to like it. You can put me on ignore if you are tired of me calling a spade - a spade.

 

I have never blocked anyone, and I never will.

I don't run away from a " fight ".

Figuratively speaking. 

 

You don't seem to get that slandering someone isn't what good/nice people do. 

 

If you are stating that Super is an anti semite, has made anti Semitic comments, then you are basically stating that Sharpie and PO are allowing him to make those statements.

 

For the record are you stating they are allowing anti Semitic comments in this thread ?  

[Bob Long]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I might answer your questions when they become serious, not this type of bs.

 

It's pretty much what this thread has become, buddy spamming with biased/questionable tweets

[Super19]

Mini steps in the right direction, the EU reinstated funding to UNRWA.

 

[Optimist Prime]

Months ago there were many messages that led to bannings, time outs and messages removed hopefully before anyone saw them. 

The folks who were the worst offenders no longer post here. Don't be like them. that is all. 

[Optimist Prime]

I hope this wasn't at a particularly amazing restaurant near Baniyas. I remember the same red roof, and very similar place on the map.

Syria: 3 explosions struck area of Baniyas (Tartus province) at dawn today. A building was destroyed near Qalaat Marqab. It was apparently an Israeli airstrike

Quote

5 hours ago - 35°9′N 35°57′E

A suspected Israeli attack against the Syrian city of Baniyas has killed Iranian military "advisor" Reza Zarei, a member of the IRGC's Navy, Iran's state-run media reported

 

[Optimist Prime]

I was curious what the outcome of the ICC case was and after reading for some time this morning, found that the ICC did not find Israel committed Genocide. That word and narrative are a view of what is happening. Honestly most wars have a higher civilian death rate relative to belligerents death rate than what we see so far, and in recent weeks the civilian death rate as compared to belligerents death rate has decreased.  The ICC did however pass a verdict that Israel must do all it can reasonably do to avoid a genocide in Gaza, keeping in mind there is a war on, and my perspective is that Israel is doing so. As we know Israel directs civilians away from areas of military interest via leaflets and direct limited text blasts to those in the regions affected. They also quite literally telegraph via all news outlets which enclaves they are about to conduct operations in. All civilian deaths in war suck, but not all civilian deaths in war equate to genocide. Great care has been taken, as has been pointed out, the population of gaza more than doubled in the last 25 years to over 2 million folks, despite Gaza being reliant on Israel for food and water aid. If Israel was genocidal against Gaza, 1.1 million Gazans would not have been born there and fed and watered by Israel for the last 25 years. Again, it is terrible that nearly 30k people have died in Gaza in a short five months, as it is terrible that the governing body of Gaza started this war on Oct 7th. The war will end fastest if Hamas operatives give themselves up, at its most simple terms, the population deaths at large are because Hamas, the governing body of Gaza started a war with Israel, the nation it relied most upon for food and water and medicine and electrical and gas power. Sad all around, and the sooner the terrorist groups are defeated the better for everyone who isn't a member of Hamas or Islamaic Jihad or the Al Aqsa martyrs brigade, et cetera. The people who ARE members of these groups simply need to be removed from the board for the good of the people they claim to represent.

[Boudrias]

The Sunni world has obviously made an accommodation with Israel. Israel will do what they have to so that Gaza no longer a threat. Even a realignment of existing borders that predates Oct. 7th might be possible. It is significant that Hezbollah has not taken serious action. They can clearly see what has happened in Gaza. 
 

People should remember it was the Sunnis who lead the revolt inside Syria. Israel has hit targets there steadily. It makes me wonder if the maps of the areas around Israel are redrawn if Syria becomes the primary loser and a possible resettlement area for Palestinians. Syria is already a basket case. Such a development would destroy Iranian and Russian credibility in the ME. It would establish Sunni dominance in the area. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

The Sunni world has obviously made an accommodation with Israel. Israel will do what they have to so that Gaza no longer a threat. Even a realignment of existing borders that predates Oct. 7th might be possible. It is significant that Hezbollah has not taken serious action. They can clearly see what has happened in Gaza. 
 

People should remember it was the Sunnis who lead the revolt inside Syria. Israel has hit targets there steadily. It makes me wonder if the maps of the areas around Israel are redrawn if Syria becomes the primary loser and a possible resettlement area for Palestinians. Syria is already a basket case. Such a development would destroy Iranian and Russian credibility in the ME. It would establish Sunni dominance in the area. 

Sadly eroding Alawite power and to a lesser degree the Shia who prop them up means a rise in Sunni fortunes. I personally wish religion would eff off and leave the world to progress in leaps and bounds as it will without the ever conservative pushback from the religions that control regions, power and money in global ebb and flow tides. 

[Boudrias]

25 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Sadly eroding Alawite power and to a lesser degree the Shia who prop them up means a rise in Sunni fortunes. I personally wish religion would eff off and leave the world to progress in leaps and bounds as it will without the ever conservative pushback from the religions that control regions, power and money in global ebb and flow tides. 

Religion is a day to day way of life in the ME so your hope will take decades. A more stable area might allow such change as schools are reestablished.

[The Arrogant Worms]

 

Biden Announces U.S. Will Go Around Israel and Airdrop Aid Into Gaza As Humanitarian Crisis Worsens

https://www.mediaite.com/biden/biden-announces-u-s-will-go-around-israel-and-airdrop-aid-into-gaza-as-humanitarian-crisis-worsens/

[Canuck Surfer]

Prisoners in Gaza?

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Boudrias said:

The Sunni world has obviously made an accommodation with Israel. Israel will do what they have to so that Gaza no longer a threat. Even a realignment of existing borders that predates Oct. 7th might be possible. It is significant that Hezbollah has not taken serious action. They can clearly see what has happened in Gaza. 
 

People should remember it was the Sunnis who lead the revolt inside Syria. Israel has hit targets there steadily. It makes me wonder if the maps of the areas around Israel are redrawn if Syria becomes the primary loser and a possible resettlement area for Palestinians. Syria is already a basket case. Such a development would destroy Iranian and Russian credibility in the ME. It would establish Sunni dominance in the area. 

 

Hezbollah is predominantly Shia.

 

It does not make your statement untrue? Maybe better said the Muslim world & particularly Syria. Being ruled by the Alawites sect, a 10% of population always makes it vulnerable. Most ME regions are majority dominant. Who like when competition is eliminated for them? The area's with larger minorities groups, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon is constitutionally more multi - ethnic, trend to more common events of civil war. None of the countries want minorities that have ambitions on strongholds in any one area.  Hezbollah is such a group in Lebanon, a minority but powerful and has a stronghold... 

 

There is plenty of infighting for controls, only one common enemy?

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Hezbollah is predominantly Shia.

 

It does not make your statement untrue? Maybe better said the Muslim world & particularly Syria. Being ruled by the Alawites sect, a 10% of population always makes it vulnerable. Most ME regions are majority dominant. Who like when competition is eliminated for them? The area's with larger minorities groups, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon is constitutionally more multi - ethnic, trend to more common events of civil war. None of the countries want minorities that have ambitions on strongholds in any one area.  Hezbollah is such a group in Lebanon, a minority but powerful and has a stronghold... 

 

There is plenty of infighting for controls, only one common enemy?

 

when I read stuff like this, it just makes me wonder why our species was cursed with religion. 

Edited March 1 by Bob Long

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

despite Gaza being reliant on Israel for food and water aid.

 

I personally agree in principal with your post. Hawkish yes / absolutely, unsympathetic in occupation (WB not Gaza), genocidal no. Agreeing also that there is rationale to occupation. All just my opinion & again in my case wanting much more selective offense in this war. I Have picked this bolded out, a bit dangerous to suggest?  To comment on. 

 

I would be interested in exactly what aid Israel provided. I understood more aid was external countries, cough UNRWA? Neither critical to the point that its clear that, as an administration, Palestinian leaders in place have taken for granted both aid and water.  In a Geo world, ignoring large components of what it would take to develop Gaza as an independent state have been ignored. Focussed on tunnels, militant controls & an OCD notion of ruling the entire area. Which would have been contested, not just by Jews, by competing Muslim groups regardless.

 

Israel, for example, is demonized for having some of the best farmland. Most of which was developed from what was originally arid, uninhabitable land. Often purchased pre-1948 as an aside. In spite of some being stolen now. Pre-occupied with agricultural techniques, aqueducts, seed genesis. Is short on water as a whole, as many desert areas are. Became a world leader in nurturing water and food in it's environment.  Something the Saudi's are entertaining on a large scale at the moment.    

 

Gaza has been attracting populations.  What have they been doing to support it?  

 

What economic benefit has Gaza been developing to reward international, or regional aid, economic commitment. I have challenged the Pro-Gazan side of arguments here to develop a side committed to peace. Even for practical reasons, as they are out gunned. Its equally important to develop a mode of self sufficiency. Develop industry, perhaps education. The most exportable commodity in population dense area's is brain power. Oddly, its actually very explainable, Gaza is a prolific breeder. A region still offering 4 to 6 kids per household in an area at the hub of access to some of the most impoverished regions of the world.

 

What if its kids were taught to be doctors, engineers and architects and legislators administrators? Not kill Jews? It could take only a generation for this unique hub to be a major influence on East Africa developing in to 2knd and first world nations. 

 

They have already lost several generations to this poisoned mindset...      

[Canuck Surfer]

38 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

when I read stuff like this, it just makes me wonder why our specifies was cursed with religion. 

 

specifies? 

 

Its ok, I can imagine a few words that were designed for that statement. World fits, humanity?

 

It might be Friday night back come early back home?   

[Canuck Surfer]

9 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

What if its kids were taught to be doctors, engineers and architects and legislators administrators?

 

What Gaza needs might not be their own Gandhi. It might be their own Einstein?  (Who as posted earlier was a proponent of co-existent Zionism, not militant).  

 

Ideally both...

[Taxi]

16 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I personally agree in principal with your post. Hawkish yes / absolutely, unsympathetic in occupation (WB not Gaza), genocidal no. Agreeing also that there is rationale to occupation. All just my opinion & again in my case wanting much more selective offense in this war. I Have picked this bolded out, a bit dangerous to suggest?  To comment on. 

 

I would be interested in exactly what aid Israel provided. I understood more aid was external countries, cough UNRWA? Neither critical to the point that its clear that, as an administration, Palestinian leaders in place have taken for granted both aid and water.  In a Geo world, ignoring large components of what it would take to develop Gaza as an independent state have been ignored. Focussed on tunnels, militant controls & an OCD notion of ruling the entire area. Which would have been contested, not just by Jews, by competing Muslim groups regardless.

 

Israel, for example, is demonized for having some of the best farmland. Most of which was developed from what was originally arid, uninhabitable land. Often purchased pre-1948 as an aside. In spite of some being stolen now. Pre-occupied with agricultural techniques, aqueducts, seed genesis. Is short on water as a whole, as many desert areas are. Became a world leader in nurturing water and food in it's environment.  Something the Saudi's are entertaining on a large scale at the moment.    

 

Gaza has been attracting populations.  What have they been doing to support it?  

 

What economic benefit has Gaza been developing to reward international, or regional aid, economic commitment. I have challenged the Pro-Gazan side of arguments here to develop a side committed to peace. Even for practical reasons, as they are out gunned. Its equally important to develop a mode of self sufficiency. Develop industry, perhaps education. The most exportable commodity in population dense area's is brain power. Oddly, its actually very explainable, Gaza is a prolific breeder. A region still offering 4 to 6 kids per household in an area at the hub of access to some of the most impoverished regions of the world.

 

What if its kids were taught to be doctors, engineers and architects and legislators administrators? Not kill Jews? It could take only a generation for this unique hub to be a major influence on East Africa developing in to 2knd and first world nations. 

 

They have already lost several generations to this poisoned mindset...      

 

The Palestinian people have been fed a lie that they will eventually rise up, destroy Israel, and take over what is now Israel for themselves. Most efforts to develop the land they currently control would be seen as acceptance of the status quo and the long term existence of Israel. 

 

Governments and people will also only develop when they have to. As long as external forces are feeding Hamas billions, they have no need for economic development. Their industry is the war, the refugee situation, and the external aid it creates. Hamas' main sources of income were/are external aid and taxation of its own people via duties charged on goods entering the Gaza Strip. The biggest employer in Gaza, besides the government and human rights aid organizations, was Israel, who had provided Gazans with 40,000 work permits. 

 

For sure the Israeli/Egyptian blockade hurt the economy. However, the economy didn't have many industries to start with. The idea that 1.2 million Gazans could live off farming, in a dessert with limited resources is not feasible. 

[Bob Long]

40 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

specifies? 

 

Its ok, I can imagine a few words that were designed for that statement. World fits, humanity?

 

It might be Friday night back come early back home?   

 

Spell check strikes again 

[Super19]

Hamas says seven captives killed in Israeli army bombing of Gaza

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/3/1/hamas-says-seven-captives-killed-in-israeli-army-bombing-of-gaza

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I was curious what the outcome of the ICC case was and after reading for some time this morning, found that the ICC did not find Israel committed Genocide. That word and narrative are a view of what is happening. Honestly most wars have a higher civilian death rate relative to belligerents death rate than what we see so far, and in recent weeks the civilian death rate as compared to belligerents death rate has decreased.  The ICC did however pass a verdict that Israel must do all it can reasonably do to avoid a genocide in Gaza, keeping in mind there is a war on, and my perspective is that Israel is doing so. As we know Israel directs civilians away from areas of military interest via leaflets and direct limited text blasts to those in the regions affected. They also quite literally telegraph via all news outlets which enclaves they are about to conduct operations in. All civilian deaths in war suck, but not all civilian deaths in war equate to genocide. Great care has been taken, as has been pointed out, the population of gaza more than doubled in the last 25 years to over 2 million folks, despite Gaza being reliant on Israel for food and water aid. If Israel was genocidal against Gaza, 1.1 million Gazans would not have been born there and fed and watered by Israel for the last 25 years. Again, it is terrible that nearly 30k people have died in Gaza in a short five months, as it is terrible that the governing body of Gaza started this war on Oct 7th. The war will end fastest if Hamas operatives give themselves up, at its most simple terms, the population deaths at large are because Hamas, the governing body of Gaza started a war with Israel, the nation it relied most upon for food and water and medicine and electrical and gas power. Sad all around, and the sooner the terrorist groups are defeated the better for everyone who isn't a member of Hamas or Islamaic Jihad or the Al Aqsa martyrs brigade, et cetera. The people who ARE members of these groups simply need to be removed from the board for the good of the people they claim to represent.

 

What's the difference between a terror group like Hamas, and  " extremist " settler Groups in regards to the " terror they instill the into their victims ?

 

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/extremist-israeli-settlers-are-nonstate-armed-actors/

 

" The extremist settlers are transparent and ideological in their goals: to drive Palestinians if not entirely out of the west bank then at least 60 percent of the west bank classified by the Oslo process as classified as the Oslo process as Area C which is under full Israeli civilian and military control. 

 

Whether they justify it on biblical grounds, revenge or claims for safety in light of the October 7 massacre, their goal is to create a homogeneous Israel " from the river to the sea " . This constitutes ethnic cleansing a crime sited in a recent US designation of a Sudanese paramilitary force. 

 

In refusing building permits and cutting off access to agricultural land, the Israeli government severely restricts Palestinian economic activity and movement in area C which under the 1995 interim agreement ( Oslo 11 ) was intended to be gradually transferred to Palestinian control except for areas to be discussed in final status arrangements ( ie settlements ). From it's swearing in in December 2022, the Netanyahu government has promoted defacto annexation over Area C, in essence endorsing the goals of vigilante settlers. 

 

Despite admonishments from the Biden administration, there is no sign that the current Israeli cabinet, with ministers such as Itamar Ben-Gvir and Bezalel Smotrich openly supportive of the extremist settlers goals and methods, will reign in, let alone arrest the extremist settlers who intimidate and attack with impunity. The rule of law that might protect Palestinians or bring violent settlers to justice does not apply. Yet as the Netanyahu government at best looks the other way, it is in the US interest that the west bank doesn't explode in communal violence alongside a war in Gaza and threats from Hezbollah, Iranian - allied militias in Iraq and Houthis in Yemen. It is also in US against interests to see support for Hamas grow, as surely will happen in reaction to settler violence in the West Bank and the war in Gaza. 

 

Given the Israeli governments refusal to act, the United States must. 

 

The Biden's adminstration's visa restriction policy and delay in transferring rifles are welcome but insufficient. The United States should consider the marauding extremists settlers as non state actors ( NSAA ) and draw on a broader set of mechanisms, including the freezing of financial accounts and other sanctions. Since Visa restrictions do not affect any Israeli - American duel citizens involved in the violence, the US government could widen the target net and pursue Americans who are implicated in group attacks on Palestinian civilians - in the same way that American citizens who are part of international narcotic or criminal rings are no more immune from punitive measures than foreign national in those groups.

 

The United States could also seize assets of US based groups funding extremist settler Groups attacking Palestinians civilians, in the same way law enforcement tries to disrupt financial flows from US based groups financing violent extremism. The United States could work with like minded countries, as happens in counter terrorism and preventing violent extremism efforts, to build coalitions with multinational measures responding to extremist settler violence. 

European Countries struggling with internal political reactions to the Israel - Hamas war, may welcome joining efforts aimed at curbing settler violence. Israeli government officials who aid and abet extremist settler violence would also face repercussions. 

 

While an exact definition of non state armed actors is contested, a general understanding would encompass groups that use violence, threats and intimidation to promote a political, ethnic or religious agenda that comes at the expense of peace and stability in areas where NSAAs operate. Extremist settler Groups would seem to qualify. Like the January 6th insurrectionists in the United States, they are extremist actors, supported by politicians, taking ilegal actions to change the agreed political dispensation. 

 

For decades the United States has encouraged Isreal to end settlement expansion and to remove settlement outposts considered ilegal even under Israeli law. The US approach, relying more on words than tangible leverage failed: settlement growth in the west bank and east Jerusalem has nearly tripled in the 30 years after the Oslo process, from approximately 250,000 settlers in in 1993, to 700,000 today. 

 

Following multiple Israeli smoke - and - mirrors announcements of settlement freeze meant to placate Washington while allowing construction to continue, frustrated US officials joked that " settlements like water, expand while frozen "

 

Cracking down on violent extremist settlers will not address the challenge of how to establish a contiguous Palestinian state crisscrossed with settlement roads and infrastructure, where most of the largest settlements are essentially bedroom communities for Jerusalem and Tel Aviv that were built with support from successive Israeli governments on occupied land. Nor will and end to settler violence and settler expansion miraculously create Palestinian government institutions. However at the very least, punitive measures against violent settlers should prevent a bad situation getting worse. 

 

The United States draws on a wide variety of tools and coalitions to fight back against Palestinian terrorism, and now Washington should expand the mechanisms used against extremist violent Israeli settler Groups - especially in the absence of effective action, and in the light of possible encouragement, from the Netanyahu government. "

 

The Author of this article, Jeffrey Feltman is Jewish - American. 

He has also worked for several US adminstration's including as the US ambassador to Lebanon, the United States consul general in Jerusalem, amongst other posts. 

 

Brookings Institute

Media Bias

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/brookings-institute/

 

Factual reporting very high, highest rating.

 

MFBC rating 

High credibility.

 

Does all this sound reasonable, logical and factual to you OP ? 

 

 

[Super19]

20 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I might answer your questions when they become serious, not this type of bs.

I have a lot of questions. 

 

Let's start with one from the "beginning":

Did the IDF open fire on and kill Israeli civilians on Oct 7?

[Canuck Surfer]

54 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I have a lot of questions. 

 

Let's start with one from the "beginning":

Did the IDF open fire on and kill Israeli civilians on Oct 7?

 

@Sharpshooter does this qualify as trolling?

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

" extremist " settler Groups in regards to the " terror they instill the into their victims ?

 

It could easily be argued that some extremist activities are terroristic.

 

The US has also started applying some settlers with sanctions.  It does not excuse anyone else from terrorist activities.  Two wrongs don't make a right?