Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Super19 said:

I've seen many Jews at pro-Palestine protests all around the world that:

- are against the extreme Zionist leadership regime in the apartheid State of Israel

- support a free Palestinian state

- are against the crimes the IDF and Zionist Israeli regime is doing.

 

 

"Rabbi Yisroel Dovid Weiss explains the difference between Judaism and Zionism.

Judaism is not Zionism.

Judaism is a religion. 

Zionism is a nationalist political movement."

 

 

Btw, roman is the one that got mad at people who didn't believe Israeli lies. Guy is almost as Zionist as it gets. Anything that doesn't agree with official Israeli propoganda, deserves for roman to have "your face smeared in your own piss" (literally his words ITT). He also calls anyone who disagrees or questions something a terrorist and/or an antisemite - he's called me this many times. 

 

I'm really curious how you only find the same 3 clowns to "represent the Jews" - rabbi Weiss (one of the leaders of extremely fringe Neturei Karta sect), Mate and Finkelstein. I guess you are running out of your "token Jews"...

[Super19]

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I'm really curious how you only find the same 3 clowns to "represent the Jews" - rabbi Weiss (one of the leaders of extremely fringe Neturei Karta sect), Mate and Finkelstein. I guess you are running out of your "token Jews"...

So you don't like the Rabbi because he's an Orthodox Jew. 

 

You don't like Finkelstein because he vehemently opposes Zionism and Israeli crimes and supports a free Palestine.

 

And you don't like Mate because he has humanity.

 

What about the Instagram video I posted a page back? Lots of young Jews here share that sentiment of rejecting Zionism. It's not just 3 "clowns".

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Chicken. said:

In jest… Canada is already great. Lets keep it that way

 

it is, Canada is awesome. Its also basically just an idea. Thats why Skippy running around yelling that "everything is broken" is such a bad thing to do.

 

But its also why I'm annoyed at the lefts love-in with certain parts of this conflict. Its not helping. 

 

[Super19]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

it is, Canada is awesome. Its also basically just an idea. Thats why Skippy running around yelling that "everything is broken" is such a bad thing to do.

 

But its also why I'm annoyed at the lefts love-in with certain parts of this conflict. Its not helping. 

 

Would you have been annoyed the left protesting Nazi Germany?

 

What about the left protesting "weapons of mass destruction"?

 

Because your stance on Gaza is hypocritical of where you would've stood and what you would have done back then.

 

Denying genocide as it is emerging. Playing into propaganda.

Edited March 5 by Super19

[Bob Long]

Just now, Super19 said:

Would you have been annoyed the left protesting Nazi Germany?

 

This is stupid 

 

Just now, Super19 said:

What about the left protesting "weapons of mass destruction"?

 

I'm actually surprised you bothered with these two 

[testycal]

7 hours ago, Provost said:

You seem to be pretty one sided and biased in your comments.

 

Yes settlers and IDF murder Palestinians for fun because they have successfully dehumanized them and think of them as pests and animals.  Members of the government regularly publicly propose simply depopulating the entire region of Palestinians through murder.

 

A cursory google comes up with a myriad of examples of Israelis murdering Palestinians as recreation, including very young children. In the links below I just selected a particularly fun sub genre of settlers purposefully running over little Palestinian kids.  That is not even addressing the larger known issue with illegal detentions, and extra judicial killings by the military and police.

 

Atrocities can’t be justified by some sort of pre-emptive security reasons. 

 

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-181574/#:~:text=Kindergarten student Inas Khalil%2C age,both rushed to the hospital.

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/8/27/palestinian-girl-dies-after-being-struck-by-settler-car

https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/111592

 

https://imemc.org/article/israeli-settler-runs-over-critically-injures-a-palestinian-child-near-bethlehem/

 

https://english.wafa.ps/Pages/Details/112018

 

You want to have a discussion or are you satisfied with catch phrases that have a certain "flair" to them ?.... settlers and IDF murder Palestinians for fun...myriad of examples of Israelis murdering Palestinians as recreation, including very young children...settlers purposefully running over little Palestinian kids.  Really?  There is no black and white but try not to pretend with presenting your views as generalizations using inflammatory language that slowly but surely leads to more hate and in the case of Jews, anti semitism.  The sources of your links are self serving..permanent Palestinian UN observers, UN, Al jazeera WAFA Palestinian News & Information Agency-WAFA. Just because it is reported does not mean it is always true as you would have it.

 

7 hours ago, Provost said:

   

 

7 hours ago, Provost said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

7 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I never called you antisemite, get off your high horse.

Sure you didn't.  There was no statement or insinuation of the like at all.  You're right.

 

I just asked you a question though, not exactly expecting an answer but then I don't expect or desire consequences from people who have different points of view or arguments than myself.

Edited March 5 by Warhippy

[Provost]

6 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

lol you absolutely did.  as well as others.  if you scrubbed your comments so be it but you absolutely did.

 

You're not a victim here I just asked you a question

I don’t know what he has deleted or edited, but I left this thread because of the vitriol.  Folks would use any rumour as evidence to be anti-Islamic and anti-Palestinian, but citing facts verified by independent 3rd parties that looked bad on Israel resulted in being shouted down as an anti-Semite.

 

The stuff he was yelling at folks about being anti Semitic about early in the thread seem to be coming true.  He insisted that Israel wasn’t interested or planning on occupying Gaza, and that any military action would be limited.  

 

If you go back to the beginning, pretty much everything he said has all aged poorly…

[Alflives]

45 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Would you have been annoyed the left protesting Nazi Germany?

 

What about the left protesting "weapons of mass destruction"?

 

Because your stance on Gaza is hypocritical of where you would've stood and what you would have done back then.

 

Denying genocide as it is emerging. Playing into propaganda.

In a time of war, Canada must come first for us Canadians. 

[Warhippy]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

I don’t know what he has deleted or edited, but I left this thread because of the vitriol.  Folks would use any rumour as evidence to be anti-Islamic and anti-Palestinian, but citing facts verified by independent 3rd parties that looked bad on Israel resulted in being shouted down as an anti-Semite.

 

The stuff he was yelling at folks about being anti Semitic about early in the thread seem to be coming true.  He insisted that Israel wasn’t interested or planning on occupying Gaza, and that any military action would be limited.  

 

If you go back to the beginning, pretty much everything he said has all aged poorly…

Oh I am very aware.  Very very aware.  But I also left as I received numerous suspensions while others acting in the same fashion but from the other side didn't.  Seeing people who ask questions about Israeli policy or government actions called "hamas apologists" just cements in me the fact that there can be no alternate points of view or arguments had because there's just no point

[Ilunga]

7 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I'm really curious how you only find the same 3 clowns to "represent the Jews" - rabbi Weiss (one of the leaders of extremely fringe Neturei Karta sect), Mate and Finkelstein. I guess you are running out of your "token Jews"...

 

How about 36 Rabbi's 

in North America alone 

 

https://www.trtworld.com/us-and-canada/dozens-of-rabbis-protest-at-un-to-demand-israel-end-its-war-on-gaza-16598620

 

And then there is Rabbi Arik Ascherman 

 

Rabbi helps occupied West bank farmers amid rising Israeli settler violence 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/11/13/rabbi-helps-occupied-west-bank-farmers-amid-rising-israeli-settler-violence

 

" There is no excuse, no explanation, no justification for what Hamas did " in its October 7 attacks on southern Israel, said the US-born 64-year- old, a veteran activist with the Rabbi's for human rights group, referring to the deadly incursion in southern Israel by Hamas, the group that rules Gaza.

 

" But the average Isreali today is not prepared to distinguish between Palestinian terrorists and terrorised Palestinians " he added, alluding to a rise in settler attacks since October 7 "

 

Here is a guy that is living in Israel helping to protect Palestinian farmers in the west bank 

 

And here he is being attacked by an Isreali settler 

 

 

 

 

And he wasn't the only Rabbi from that group to help the Palestinians 

 

Rabbi's form human shield to protect olive harvest in west bank 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/10/rabbis-for-human-rights-protect-west-bank-olive-harvest/

 

" Rabbi Avi Dabush heads the charity and continues the work despite being displaced from his home at Kibbutz Nirim, one of the communities that was hit hardest during the Hamas massacres on October 7.

" We won't go home for at least another year " Mr Dabush told The Telegraph.

 

The war and the tensions it has sparked makes him and the organisation even more determined to continue its work Inspite of the new challenges the war has brought he said. "

 

Here is a victim of the October 7 attacks who hasn't lost his humanity.

[Super19]

Israel's lies and the media enabling it are crumbling. 

[bishopshodan]

Is it time for a thread title change?

 

Maybe ...

"Hamas attacked, Israel really, really, like really, responds"

[Super19]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

How about 36 Rabbi's 

in North America alone 

 

https://www.trtworld.com/us-and-canada/dozens-of-rabbis-protest-at-un-to-demand-israel-end-its-war-on-gaza-16598620

 

And then there is Rabbi Arik Ascherman 

 

Rabbi helps occupied West bank farmers amid rising Israeli settler violence 

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/gallery/2023/11/13/rabbi-helps-occupied-west-bank-farmers-amid-rising-israeli-settler-violence

 

" There is no excuse, no explanation, no justification for what Hamas did " in its October 7 attacks on southern Israel, said the US-born 64-year- old, a veteran activist with the Rabbi's for human rights group, referring to the deadly incursion in southern Israel by Hamas, the group that rules Gaza.

 

" But the average Isreali today is not prepared to distinguish between Palestinian terrorists and terrorised Palestinians " he added, alluding to a rise in settler attacks since October 7 "

 

Here is a guy that is living in Israel helping to protect Palestinian farmers in the west bank 

 

And here he is being attacked by an Isreali settler 

 

 

 

 

And he wasn't the only Rabbi from that group to help the Palestinians 

 

Rabbi's form human shield to protect olive harvest in west bank 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/12/10/rabbis-for-human-rights-protect-west-bank-olive-harvest/

 

" Rabbi Avi Dabush heads the charity and continues the work despite being displaced from his home at Kibbutz Nirim, one of the communities that was hit hardest during the Hamas massacres on October 7.

" We won't go home for at least another year " Mr Dabush told The Telegraph.

 

The war and the tensions it has sparked makes him and the organisation even more determined to continue its work Inspite of the new challenges the war has brought he said. "

 

Here is a victim of the October 7 attacks who hasn't lost his humanity.

Zionists hate Jews and Muslims working and living together.

 

And for what it's worth, Hamas a month or two ago in the manifesto they released, stating "Hamas affirms that it's conflict is with the Zionest project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entinty".

 

This is why Zionists, (Zionism defined as a "nationalistic political movement" by the Rabbi I quoted a page back) HATE prominent Jewish voices like Finklestein and Mate, and the Orthodox Jews, and the Jews behind "Israelism" and the Jews behind the "Not in my name" movement and the Jews rejecting Zionism, and the Jews attending Palestine protests chanting Free Palestine.

 

These are ALL Jewish voices against Zionism, FOR a Palestenian state, and would live in peaceful harmony with the Arabs/Muslims/Christians in the "holy land", where they would all live in peace with eachother.

[Chicken.]

42 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Is it time for a thread title change?

 

Maybe ...

"Hamas attacked, Israel really, really, like really, responds"

Perhaps, Hamas attacks and Israel does everything in its power to prevent it from happening again

[Bob Long]

43 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Is it time for a thread title change?

 

Maybe ...

"Hamas continues to attack, Israel really, really, like really, responds"

 

Maybe more accurate?

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Zionists hate Jews and Muslims working and living together.

 

And for what it's worth, Hamas a month or two ago in the manifesto they released, stating "Hamas affirms that it's conflict is with the Zionest project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entinty".

 

This is why Zionists, (Zionism defined as a "nationalistic political movement" by the Rabbi I quoted a page back) HATE prominent Jewish voices like Finklestein and Mate, and the Orthodox Jews, and the Jews behind "Israelism" and the Jews behind the "Not in my name" movement and the Jews rejecting Zionism, and the Jews attending Palestine protests chanting Free Palestine.

 

These are ALL Jewish voices against Zionism, FOR a Palestenian state, and would live in peaceful harmony with the Arabs/Muslims/Christians in the "holy land", where they would all live in peace with eachother.

 

Yes not all Jews are Zionists, in saying that I don't believe all Zionists are bad people.

They are like any group of people, good - bad and everything in between. 

 

 

" Not all Jews are Zionists "

 

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/12/29/barron-ritz-jack-jews-zionists/

 

This article is written by Jewish Harvard students 

 

I could quote a few things from this article however these comments seem pertinent in relation to anti Semitic comments

 

" We do not deny the threat of anti semitism which purportedly prompted this hearing. In fact we are hyper- aware of antisemitism's evils. Our ancestors fled extermination in Europe and their experiences are anything but unique. To be Jewish is to inherit the 

generational trauma of constant trauma. Today, this trauma is reinforced: there has been a ride in nation wide rise antisemitic crimes since the October. 7 terrorist attacks. 

 

Yet discussions about fighting antisemitism are neither honest or effective as long they conflate criticism of the Isreali state with such hate. Just as we fear rising antisemitism, we fear how claims of antisemitism have been weaponized to other forms of bigotry.

 

Over the last few months we have seen our pro-Palestinian peers ruthlessly silenced, doxxed, and harassed. These attacks have largely targeted Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and black students, and they have been shamefully justified under the guise of combatting antisemitism. 

 

Yet while antisemitism has received an abundance of media coverage, government enquiry and administrative response, anti Palestinian hate, xenophobia, and racism have only seen a fraction of that attention. "

 

Remember this was a huge controversy, students suing Harvard.

 

[Super19]

22 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes not all Jews are Zionists, in saying that I don't believe all Zionists are bad people.

They are like any group of people, good - bad and everything in between. 

 

 

" Not all Jews are Zionists "

 

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2023/12/29/barron-ritz-jack-jews-zionists/

 

This article is written by Jewish Harvard students 

 

I could quote a few things from this article however these comments seem pertinent in relation to anti Semitic comments

 

" We do not deny the threat of anti semitism which purportedly prompted this hearing. In fact we are hyper- aware of antisemitism's evils. Our ancestors fled extermination in Europe and their experiences are anything but unique. To be Jewish is to inherit the 

generational trauma of constant trauma. Today, this trauma is reinforced: there has been a ride in nation wide rise antisemitic crimes since the October. 7 terrorist attacks. 

 

Yet discussions about fighting antisemitism are neither honest or effective as long they conflate criticism of the Isreali state with such hate. Just as we fear rising antisemitism, we fear how claims of antisemitism have been weaponized to other forms of bigotry.

 

Over the last few months we have seen our pro-Palestinian peers ruthlessly silenced, doxxed, and harassed. These attacks have largely targeted Palestinian, Arab, Muslim, and black students, and they have been shamefully justified under the guise of combatting antisemitism. 

 

Yet while antisemitism has received an abundance of media coverage, government enquiry and administrative response, anti Palestinian hate, xenophobia, and racism have only seen a fraction of that attention. "

 

Remember this was a huge controversy, students suing Harvard.

 

Agreed. And I think it's a tough place to be for some Jews/Israelis.

 

Israelism is a related watch. 

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

The thing about the term Zionist is that it has a different meaning depending on who is saying it. Like when NWA sings about an N word, they don't mean it the way the Grand Dragon of the KKK, I mean Senator SO and SO, meant it. 

 

(Senator Byrd, Senator Brown to name a few, and Supreme Court Justice Hugo Black: all KKK members)

[Ilunga]

3 minutes ago, Super19 said:

Agreed. And I think it's a tough place to be for some Jews/Israelis.

 

Israelism is a related watch. 

 

 

 

More Jewish voices speaking out.

 

It's messed up how they indoctrinate their kids. 

However when they actually go to Israel, join the IDF and serve in the occupied territories and see the truth of the situation there, well it's obvious from their reactions how they feel once they learn the truth.

 

Thanks for posting, that's a doco a will try and find.

 

This is an article about the film makers

 

https://www.theguardian.com/film/2023/nov/12/israelism-documentary-american-jewish-israel-palestine-conflict

 

Lots I could quote, but one thing I have always thought about but never mentioned was this, in regards to Trump, remembering that AIPAC is the largest Israeli lobby group outside of Isreal

 

" The directors point to Aipac's unwavering support for Donald Trump even as he refused to condemn antisemitic white nationalists, as evidence as the way the organisation prioritises support for Israel over other interests. "

 

And then there was the time he tweeted " an image of Hilary Clinton surrounded by money with the words, the most corrupt candidate ever, inside a six pointed star, the shape of the star of David. 

 

This is the guy that Netanyahu claimed 

 

" Trump is the best friend Israel has ever had in the Whitehouse " 

 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

The thing about the term Zionist is that it has a different meaning depending on who is saying it. Like when NWA sings about an N word, they don't mean it the way the Grand Dragon of the KKK, I mean Senator SO and SO, meant it. 

 

Gotta disagree there brother.

Words have specific meanings.

 

 

https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/zionist

 

Zionist

 

" someone who belongs to or supports a political movement that had as its original aim the creation of a country for Jewish people, and now supports the state of Israel " 

 

You could describe me as a Zionist.

 

I support the right of the state of Israel to exist. 

 

The analogy you have provided is completely different.

I spoke about this when I was talking about humour/jokes.

 

It is the intent behind the use of the word or joke that is told that defines its meaning. 

 

Also the racial connotations behind the N word are far different from the term Zionist.

 

As Roman has noted he doesn't mind being called a Zionist, IMO he seems proud to wear that label.

White, black whatever race you are, it's still acceptable to use the word Zionist.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

it's still acceptable to use the word Zionist.

when it is used as an insult to members on this forum, it is against our TOS. Disagree all you like. 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

when it is used as an insult to members on this forum, it is against our TOS. Disagree all you like. 

 

Ergo, that's why I keep on pointing out it's the intent behind the use of the word, and/or a joke. 

 

[Super19]

4 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

when it is used as an insult to members on this forum, it is against our TOS. Disagree all you like. 

With all due respect, if roman takes offense to the context I use Zionist in, thats on him not me. 

 

This State of Israel IS under an extremist Zionist regime, its an apartheid state. Occupational state. Highly oppressive state, with highlights from the past 5 months all documented in footnotes in the case you said you read - genocidal state? Many scholars on the subject already made their decision on that.

 

 

And again, I never formally complained to the mods about it, but I've been called terrorist and antisemite as insults to me.

[Ilunga]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:58 AM, RomanPer said:

 

I'm actually glad they are posting it - they are revealing their true antisemitic colors without realizing it. And I'll be happy to be there, along the way, sticking their faces into their own piss...

.