Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Super19 said:

The way to not have an Oct 7 happen ever again is for Israel BOTH PARTIES, ALL PARTIES...

 

FTFY

[Super19]

28 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

have voiced my opinion against Settler violence, settlements. Called for restraint. Not that I am Jewish, I still have a right to an opinion; just to not claim victimization. 

 

6 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I have also called on Israel, as the first world, and more powerful nation to take a lead position in stopping such crimes by its people.

I do recognize you have said this. A correct view in my mind and a fair and humane one at that.

 

I feel it is very unfair for Jewish people to have to contend with extreme Zionist positions - those who claim to share the same faith, but not the same support for Israeli crimes.

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, Super19 said:

I received this different times question

 

Just being honest. 

 

You sound like you have a blood thirst of your own.  Your anger over what has happened is killing you.  Or so it appears by your posts, what and how you posture them is all blame, justification, victimization.  This is how it appears.

 

I see you in Netanyahu. Who wanted blood over what happened Oct 7.  You want blood in what has happened since / before. You fuel each other.

 

 

Palestinians will need an Israel that wants peace. If you want to be part of the solution; consider your anger? Israel, the world also needs Palestinians that want peace.  

[Canuck Surfer]

1 minute ago, Super19 said:

 

I do recognize you have said this. A correct view in my mind and a fair and humane one at that.

 

I feel it is very unfair for Jewish people to have to contend with extreme Zionist positions - those who claim to share the same faith, but not the same support for Israeli crimes.

Thanks very much for this reply!

[Canuck Surfer]

Everyone has to reign in the extremists.

[Super19]

11 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Just being honest. 

 

You sound like you have a blood thirst of your own.  Your anger over what has happened is killing you.  Or so it appears by your posts, what and how you posture them is all blame, justification, victimization.  This is how it appears.

 

I see you in Netanyahu. Who wanted blood over what happened Oct 7.  You want blood in what has happened since / before. You fuel each other.

 

 

Palestinians will need an Israel that wants peace. If you want to be part of the solution; consider your anger? Israel, the world also needs Palestinians that want peace.  

I don't wish for any more blood to be spilled here. Not Palestinian. Not Israeli. I just wish for Palestinians and Israelis to coexist.

 

I am nothing like Nentanyahu.

 

What do you propose Palestinians do, when their opposition is Nentanyahu? Who so easily occupies them. Oppresses them. Kills them.

What do you propose Palestinians do when the world, not even their Muslim brethren, or the democratic leader United States, see occupation and apartheid and oppression but make no steps to impose justice, humanity and liberation?

 

What do you propose Palestinians do when their opposition, Nentanyahu, claims he is proud to have never allowed a Palestinian state and said he will NEVER see it happen? 

[StrayDog]

45 minutes ago, Super19 said:

So you think Gazans have safe places to go, and you think Gazans are being attacked because it's their fault? You forbid a people fighting to not live under occupation, apartheid and oppression! And you justify the regime who puts a people under occupation, apartheid and oppression! You even support a regime that is commiting genocide!! How terrible. No humanity. Zero.

 

And what Israel is doing is monstrous... Israel is saying if Hamas doesn't surrender, then Israel will continue to displace, starve, and kill innocent people. This is Israel's idea of self defense. Shameful.

Gazans are being attacked because of the actions of other Gazans (Hamas). 

I've also said multiple times in this thread that the Palestinians have a right to fight back against occupation, but that right stops at the point of taking hostages. You seem to believe that Hamas has every right to take hostages, as well as use rape as a weapon of war; and yet you call me shameful with no humanity. 

As this thread has developed, you've moved from pro-Hamas sentiments to full-blown support and cheerleading. I'd say the humanity being called into question is yours.

 

 

[Super19]

19 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

Gazans are being attacked because of the actions of other Gazans (Hamas). 

I've also said multiple times in this thread that the Palestinians have a right to fight back against occupation, but that right stops at the point of taking hostages. You seem to believe that Hamas has every right to take hostages, as well as use rape as a weapon of war; and yet you call me shameful with no humanity. 

As this thread has developed, you've moved from pro-Hamas sentiments to full-blown support and cheerleading. I'd say the humanity being called into question is yours.

 

 

You knowingly or unknowingly cheerlead occupation, apartheid and propaganda. 

 

You knowingly justify what is plausible genocide.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Super19 said:

What do you propose Palestinians do

 

Palestinians cannot be part of the problem.  They have to oppose Hamas? At worst, survive but not support them.

 

You'll think I'm being daft.  But watch the Anne Frank story.  Or Schindler's list.  Imagine the bravery of hiding a Jewish family so they would not be slaughtered.  In the streets of Gaza? You pay a toll to get goods for your shop to Hamas.  Your son is expected to serve, almost as soon as he is 14.  Find a way for him to escape. Help others escape, presumed dead. So they don't have to serve.  I could have used the underground railway that slipped slaves across the Canadian border. It would have been a less confrontational view of the same point. Its not easy, in many cases the only way to make money in a place like Rafa is to join the gang. Do not!

 

I am not against a legitimate Gazan army, at some point, defending itself.  That is not what it is at this time though. They also cannot be launching missiles from apartment buildings to gain height & distance, pre-war. Suicide attacks. Bombing busses in tourist zones. Taking hostages. These are all provocative against a bigger, stronger opponent. Politicize your suffering, ask for help. Without being part of the criminal activity. Gaza needs its Martin Luther King.

 

A Gaza committed to peace would have had its borders opened years ago.  May have to ask for international help? To stop those from running the country from underground tunnels. 

 

I met a young guy; 25?  In Amsterdam last year.  A Syrian waiting tables one night.  The next in a pub. We shared a drink, then a joint in the street.  I asked him the obvious, why he left Syria. He said his best choice was ISIS? So he left. I asked him how was his family. He said most were dead. I gave him a hug & wished him peace! 

 

I asked for his picture; I think he would be happy I shared this! 

 

 

   

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

since 1948

 

This is also dangerous.  Between 1942 & 1948 there were over 40 Million displaced and stateless people wandering around.  From 1914 to 1948 the population of 'Palestine' almost quadrupled. In spite of almost all of the Ottoman majority leaving. Virtually the entire population replaced, as much as there were permanent, ongoing residents. Why?  Work and trade in British Palestine one. 

 

Displaced people looking for a place to live two. Including in what was at points in history the traditional homestead for more than just Jews & Arabs.

 

The foremost reason, for Zionists inclusive, unclaimed territories ripe for the taking. Holy sites, ports on the Mediterranean, control of the Suez, water rights. It is also why almost every Arab nation surrounding 'Israel' invaded in 1948. Arabs who were not Palestinians also postured to seize this land. Were physically the ones who expelled many / most Nakba victims.   

 

There were as many or in reality more Arab '' Zionists '' than there were Zionists. Who were committing the same crimes as Hamas is in today's world. 

 

Nearly every border in the Middle East & Europe was re-scripted in the 1940's. It's too old. 

[StrayDog]

36 minutes ago, Super19 said:

You knowingly or unknowingly cheerlead occupation, apartheid and propaganda. 

 

You knowingly justify what is plausible genocide.

 

 

Not sure how me constantly saying that Palestinians have a right to resist promotes occupation, apartheid, and propaganda but sure, you keep thinking that. 

Meanwhile you keep shilling for Hamas. 

I think we've reached a point in our conversation where we will not agree on pretty much anything, so I'm going to step back before something gets said that gets moderator notice. 

[Canuck Surfer]

56 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

I met a young guy; 25?  In Amsterdam last year.  A Syrian waiting tables one night.  The next in a pub. We shared a drink, then a joint in the street.  I asked him the obvious, why he left Syria. He said his best choice was ISIS? So he left. I asked him how was his family. He said most were dead. I gave him a hug & wished him peace! 

 

I asked for his picture; I think he would be happy I shared this! 

 

 

 

Some common sense prevails;

 

Geert Wilders gives up hope of being Dutch PM due to lack of support

 

Geert Wilders, whose far-right Freedom party (PVV) shocked the Netherlands by finishing first in elections late last year, has conceded that he will not be the next prime minister because his potential coalition partners do not back him.

 

“I can only become the prime minister if all the parties in the coalition support it. That was not the case,” Wilders said on X late on Wednesday. “Love for my country and voters is bigger and more important than my own position.”

 

He later added another post saying he would “still become prime minister of the Netherlands” one day. “With the support of even more Dutch people. If not tomorrow, then the day after. The voice of millions of Dutch people will be heard!”

 

The populist PVV won 37 seats – far more than forecast but well short of a majority in the 150-seat parliament – in the November election and has since been holding exploratory coalition talks with three potential rightwing allies.

 

Their refusal to accept some of Wilders’ more extreme manifesto pledges had already forced him to drop anti-constitutional measures including bans on mosques, the Qur’an and Islamic headscarves, as well as a “Nexit” referendum on leaving the EU.

 

But the possibility of the controversial anti-Islam polemicist, who has lived under police protection since 2004, becoming prime minister plainly proved an insurmountable obstacle.

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Super19 said:

You knowingly or unknowingly cheerlead occupation, apartheid and propaganda. 

 

You knowingly justify what is plausible genocide.

 

 

 

I'll say this, you're certainly dedicated to your position. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

IDF General calls out govt

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

American top Democrat & Jewish Senator calls for new elections in Israel. Indicative of a growing rift with Biden & Bibi? Or just politics with an election due, an unpopular war by Israel...

 

 

Fareed's take on subject.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Houthi's sphere of influence does not include the Indian Ocean.  They intend it to be? Ships that may have travelled through the Red Sea & Suez Canal but are heading south to round Africa. And where do we suppose this missile technology & funding, direction comes from...

 

Bad source, but this story widely reported. What do we think the odd's of this being good for civilian death rates in Yemen are?   

 

 

[Super19]

45 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Houthi's sphere of influence does not include the Indian Ocean.  They intend it to be? Ships that may have travelled through the Red Sea & Suez Canal but are heading south to round Africa. And where do we suppose this missile technology & funding, direction comes from...

 

Bad source, but this story widely reported. What do we think the odd's of this being good for civilian death rates in Yemen are?   

 

 

 

I think this move by Yemen puts more pressure on the US to reign Israel in and push for a ceasefire and diplomacy. 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

I think this move by Yemen puts more pressure on the US to reign Israel in and push for a ceasefire and diplomacy. 

 

Which move? The propaganda announcement that has nothing in common with reality? US, russia, China, UK and many other much more developed countries are still struggling with hypersonic rocket development but Houthis, who still live in 12th century, successfully tested one. The main reason for no success with such weapon development is that the whole concept is on the border of what's possible from physics perspective.

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

hypersonic rocket development but Houthis

 

[Taxi]

3 hours ago, Super19 said:

 

I think this move by Yemen puts more pressure on the US to reign Israel in and push for a ceasefire and diplomacy. 

 

Doing that would make the US look extremely week. Iran would know they can accomplish anything by giving a bunch of weapons to militants with nothing to lose. This move puts pressure on the US to remove Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis from the region. 

[Boudrias]

29 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Doing that would make the US look extremely week. Iran would know they can accomplish anything by giving a bunch of weapons to militants with nothing to lose. This move puts pressure on the US to remove Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis from the region. 

I highly doubt there will be any accommodation with Hamas. Why would there be? Sunni Arabs are on board with the need to eradicate them. They are agents for Iran and threaten their countries as well as Israel. The aid the Americans are bringing to Gaza is humanitarian not a challenge to Israel. There will be no Palestinian state in the foreseeable future without rigid control, likely by Israel. Much of what we hear internationally about the Palestinian plight is platitudes. It is Israel that has to deal with the fallout. 
 

Once Israel has eliminated Hamas the Israeli people will likely kick Bibi out and the world will think that will lead to some kind of agreement. Highly likely it won’t. No Israeli government will ever accept guarantees from Palestinians or their agents. Any solution for Palestinians means acceptance of Israel’s existence combined with decades of peaceful coexistence. Such existence requires an economic base where Palestinians can see a future outside of armed conflict. 

[Taxi]

1 minute ago, Boudrias said:

I highly doubt there will be any accommodation with Hamas. Why would there be? Sunni Arabs are on board with the need to eradicate them. They are agents for Iran and threaten their countries as well as Israel. The aid the Americans are bringing to Gaza is humanitarian not a challenge to Israel. There will be no Palestinian state in the foreseeable future without rigid control, likely by Israel. Much of what we hear internationally about the Palestinian plight is platitudes. It is Israel that has to deal with the fallout. 
 

Once Israel has eliminated Hamas the Israeli people will likely kick Bibi out and the world will think that will lead to some kind of agreement. Highly likely it won’t. No Israeli government will ever accept guarantees from Palestinians or their agents. Any solution for Palestinians means acceptance of Israel’s existence combined with decades of peaceful coexistence. Such existence requires an economic base where Palestinians can see a future outside of armed conflict. 

 

Unfortunately, things really took a wrong turn for the Palestinians when they elected Hamas as their government. They were on the verge of a permanent peace deal with Israel. It's been 18 years since Hamas was elected into power, and the prospects for a permanent peace deal have looked horrendous ever since. I agree it will take time to build trust and undo the damage Hamas has done. 

 

I hope that the surrounding Arab nations will take a larger role, and begin to play a role in providing genuine economic development for the Palestinians, instead of just weapons to fight a futile war. This matter will only get resolved if the Palestinians have an independent and functional state.