Hamas attacking Israel

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

Similar size.  I am just glad my surrey is free and people are not subjected to oppression and occupation

And ruled by terrorist group that are willing to put everything on the line, including the lives of people in Gaza, in order to destroy their hated enemy. 
 

They really be getting shafted on every end of the spectrum. It is so unfortunate. 

[Ilunga]

13 hours ago, Darius said:

 

You bring up interesting points.

 

Erdogan's government has basically collapsed the Lira and fueled one of the world's worst inflation rates. He will do what he needs to do to detract the domestic focus from this fact.

 

IMHO Erdogan plays on both sides of the fence.  As a NATO member he purchased Russian S-400 missile systems which basically got him kicked out of the F-35 program and sort of put him Washington's dog house.  At the same time he leverages on his NATO membership to appease his domestic audience - opposing Swedish membership to NATO because of hate crimes and they supposedly harbors terrorist groups - an amusing conjecture when one considers that Turkey is a haven for Hamas leaders and is one of the state sponsors of Hamas:

 

https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2023/09/15/israel-intercepts-rocket-making-material-en-route-to-gaza-from-turkey/

 

In the end I'm not sure if either side can trust him.

 

Was listening to a good lecture on " the sultan of turkey " Erdogan.

Both domestically and internationally he plays all sides against each other.

[Darius]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Was listening to a good lecture on " the sultan of turkey " Erdogan.

Both domestically and internationally he plays all sides against each other.

yup I think hes the master of "playing all sides" . I realize that he has a massive and well equipped army but sometimes I question why he hasnt been kicked out of NATO ...probably because Turkey holds a strategic position geographically with control of the Bosphorus while being an arms length away from Russia.  But come on... this is the guy that bought S-400s from Russia, blackmails the EU for funds by threatening to release migrants into the continent if he is not paid and was allegedly floating ISIS by being involved in their oil trade (i wont even get into his tactics in the Eastern Med with regards to natural gas rights...or his support for HAMAS):

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/russia-accuses-turkeys-erdogan-involvement-isis-oil-trade-n472596

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-eu-turkey-exclusive-idUSKBN20Q2EK

 

 

[Ilunga]

29 minutes ago, Darius said:

yup I think hes the master of "playing all sides" . I realize that he has a massive and well equipped army but sometimes I question why he hasnt been kicked out of NATO ...probably because Turkey holds a strategic position geographically with control of the Bosphorus while being an arms length away from Russia.  But come on... this is the guy that bought S-400s from Russia, blackmails the EU for funds by threatening to release migrants into the continent if he is not paid and was allegedly floating ISIS by being involved in their oil trade (i wont even get into his tactics in the Eastern Med with regards to natural gas rights...or his support for HAMAS):

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/isis-terror/russia-accuses-turkeys-erdogan-involvement-isis-oil-trade-n472596

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-eu-turkey-exclusive-idUSKBN20Q2EK

 

 

 

His story is interesting on all levels.

How he came to power.

Leveraging religious belief.

Turkey was basically a secular state going back to the days of Mustafa Kemal Ataturk.

That guy gave women the right to vote back when he was elected in 1923.

In a region where women had next to no rights. 

 

This article details a few of the points made in the lecture

 

https://thewire.in/world/how-religion-still-means-power-in-secular-turkey

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, moosehead said:

Iranian President Ebrahim Raisi and Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman held a phone call on Wednesday to discuss the Israel-Gaza conflict, state media in Tehran reported.

It marked the first known call between the leaders since China negotiated a deal between the two after seven years of hostility.

 

Raisi and Bin Salman discussed the "need to end war crimes against Palestine," Iranian state media reported.

The Saudi crown prince "affirmed that the kingdom is making all possible efforts in communicating with all international and regional parties to stop the ongoing escalation," Saudi state news agency SPA said.

SPA reported that the crown prince reiterated Saudi Arabia's rejection of targeting civilians in any way.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-middle-east-67073970

 

I deplore the attacks by Hamas.  

 

I also deplore bunker busting bombs that cannot help but have collateral damage.  I call for restraint. Bombs are not as personal as shooting in cold blood women and children running from a hut, grandparents hiding in a corner. Until you dig your daughter or Mother out from the rubble of a collapsed building. Burnt alive because there will be no power or water to extinguish any fire. 

 

Its not useful for Raisi & Bin Salman to discuss 'just' crimes against Palestinian populations. 

 

It is not useful for Biden to only raise concerns about Hamas! 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Playoff Beered]

Israeli journalist David Bedein has been researching UNRWA for years. He recorded what content the schools of the UN institutions teach in a 10-minute documentary video. Anti-Semitism as an educational program:

 

 

Full video from 7 years ago...

 

[Ryan Strome]

So the beheading of children was a lie? 

Typical war. We will never know what the truth is I guess.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So the beheading of children was a lie? 

Typical war. We will never know what the truth is I guess.

 

Isreal is saying there is no proof, right?

 

Good of them to get on top of that kind of thing. 

I know the first casualty of any war is the truth. They are about to put a lot of hurt on a lot of people. In this time of mass information they will be under mega scrutiny, as they should. 

This conflict is not cut and dry and support for Isreals, imo, has been waning for a while now. 

[Playoff Beered]

28 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So the beheading of children was a lie? 

Typical war. We will never know what the truth is I guess.

 

“Because of the dignity of the dead, we do not speak about how they looked,” said Maj. Nir Dinar, an IDF spokesperson. “It’s a dead baby. Does it matter if it’s burning or decapitation?”

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

“Because of the dignity of the dead, we do not speak about how they looked,” said Maj. Nir Dinar, an IDF spokesperson. “It’s a dead baby. Does it matter if it’s burning or decapitation?”

 

But it should be addressed.

I understand it being about dignity but I dont think they should hide the truth. War and warcrimes are brutal. They should be out in the open and accounted for. Not confirming just could make people believe it happened. 

 

[Gurn]

6 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

“Because of the dignity of the dead, we do not speak about how they looked,” said Maj. Nir Dinar, an IDF spokesperson. “It’s a dead baby. Does it matter if it’s burning or decapitation?”

Or having an apartment building  bombed on top of them?

[CBH1926]

Trump referring to Hamas as “very smart”

I am surprised that he hasn’t mentioned Adolf’s painting skills yet.

[Playoff Beered]

5 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

But it should be addressed.

I understand it being about dignity but I dont think they should hide the truth. War and warcrimes are brutal. They should be out in the open and accounted for. Not confirming just could make people believe it happened. 

 

In time the full truth will be known, after all the horror that's happened I'm willing to wait and let people mourn and bury the dead before getting an accounting of how exactly people were murdered. 

[bishopshodan]

7 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Or having an apartment building  bombed on top of them?

 

I heard they are planning to block fuel, water, and electricity until hostages freed?

 

So, taking the entire Gaza as hostage in retaliation? 

That strategy to me sounds like one that will produce more radicals from Palestine.

 

No hope. I fear that some of the world could see a future that justifies genocide. 

1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

In time the full truth will be known, after all the horror that's happened I'm willing to wait and let people mourn and bury the dead before getting an accounting of how exactly people were murdered. 

Thats a fair take on something that is damn awful. 

[JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo]

40 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

So the beheading of children was a lie? 

Typical war. We will never know what the truth is I guess.

It wasn't a lie as much as it was a misunderstanding and poor journalism. A reporter was talking to a soldier who mentioned dead babies, and people that were beheaded, and the reporter misheard and reported babies were being beheaded. A number of media organizations ran with the story with sensationalist headlines despite having the actual quotes of the soldier being interviewed. 

[Playoff Beered]

12 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Or having an apartment building  bombed on top of them?

 

Not gonna go down whatabout road.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I heard they are planning to block fuel, water, and electricity until hostages freed?

 

So, taking the entire Gaza as hostage in retaliation? 

That strategy to me sounds like one that will produce more radicals from Palestine.

 

No hope. I fear that some of the world could see a future that justifies genocide. 

Thats a fair take on something that is damn awful. 

Well the Gaza residents could also blame the vermin who are refusing to release the hostages.

[bishopshodan]

2 minutes ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

It wasn't a lie as much as it was a misunderstanding and poor journalism. A reporter was talking to a soldier who mentioned dead babies, and people that were beheaded, and the reporter misheard and reported babies were being beheaded. A number of media organizations ran with the story with sensationalist headlines despite having the actual quotes of the soldier being interviewed. 

I heard a lot of "I've seen the pictures"

 

But that was probably from some social media

Just now, King Heffy said:

Well the Gaza residents could also blame the vermin who are refusing to release the hostages.

 

Yep. they could/should. Talk about a rock and hard dead place.

Blocking water.... man, sad F'ing stuff. 

[Playoff Beered]

 

[RomanPer]

11 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I heard a lot of "I've seen the pictures"

 

But that was probably from some social media

 

Yep. they could/should. Talk about a rock and hard dead place.

Blocking water.... man, sad F'ing stuff. 

 

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine it's 1938 and UK and Germany have an agreement where UK supplies energy and food to Germany. UK is maintaining its side of the deal. Now it's 1942 and Germany starts bombarding UK. Would you expect UK to continue supplying energy and food to Germany?

[bishopshodan]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine it's 1938 and UK and Germany have an agreement where UK supplies energy and food to Germany. UK is maintaining its side of the deal. Now it's 1942 and Germany starts bombarding UK. Would you expect UK to continue supplying energy and food to Germany?

 

I'm not an expert on what is acceptable in war.

 

I see cutting of water to people caught up in this conflict as horrid. I have read that it is a pretty comforable death though, once the feeling of thirst subsides. So, I guess there's that. 

Edited October 12, 2023 by bishopshodan

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I'm not an expert on what is acceptable in war.

 

I see cutting of water to people caught up in this conflict as horrid. I have read that it is a pretty conforable death though, once the feeling of thirst subsides. So, I guess there's that. 

I'm not sure what other options Israel has.  Hamas can't be negotiated with, and they can't just let their citizens die with no attempt at saving them.

[Junkyard Dog]

 

 

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Isreal is saying there is no proof, right?

 

Good of them to get on top of that kind of thing. 

I know the first casualty of any war is the truth. They are about to put a lot of hurt on a lot of people. In this time of mass information they will be under mega scrutiny, as they should. 

This conflict is not cut and dry and support for Isreals, imo, has been waning for a while now. 

 

Israel officials saying not yet confirmed. IDF I believe we’re the ones stating it. They were first to the scenes. I remember reading that a French reporter confirmed the allegations but idk how credible was the source. I don’t have time to find and verify atm. 
 

It likely requires further investigation. 

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I'm not sure what other options Israel has.  Hamas can't be negotiated with, and they can't just let their citizens die with no attempt at saving them.

 

Immediate negotiations, with terrorists? I hear you.

But ultimately I feel I want to go on about settlements, yet at the same time I really dont know enough compared to some in this thread. Its a touchy topic and I dont want to offend.

 

Lot's of innocents caught in the middle and lots more of them will die. 

 

i still dont know how the intial attack happened. No intel...bulldozers pushing through their 6m iron wall...hours of attacking..lots of terrorist involved...no intel?