Ryan Strome Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 21 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I'm not an expert on what is acceptable in war. I see cutting of water to people caught up in this conflict as horrid. I have read that it is a pretty comforable death though, once the feeling of thirst subsides. So, I guess there's that. No water, food, gas, medicine, electricity, etc. Then to use the second world war as an example. The second world war violated so many international rules. Also, what is he on about 1942? The bombardment of Britain started in 1940. Anyway, it's ugly all around! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 13 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I'm not an expert on what is acceptable in war. I see cutting of water to people caught up in this conflict as horrid. I have read that it is a pretty comforable death though, once the feeling of thirst subsides. So, I guess there's that. Sorry, this is not an answer. You are pointing to a specific action by Israel with a blame. I'm asking a very legitimate question with a very comparable example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 First Canadian evacuation flight from Israel lands in Athens, 130 passengers on board https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/first-canadian-evacuation-flight-from-israel-lands-in-athens-130-passengers-on-board-1.6598348 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Playoff Beered said: “Because of the dignity of the dead, we do not speak about how they looked,” said Maj. Nir Dinar, an IDF spokesperson. “It’s a dead baby. Does it matter if it’s burning or decapitation?” Reveal hidden contents The second picture shows the baby missing its head. So it’s actually true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 19 hours ago, eeeeeeeeergh said: yep this is extremely poignant. Sadly I just don’t think most people have the desire to dig deep enough to put themselves in the shoes of oppressed people, so the circle of violence just continues. Americans cheered on the invasions in Afghanistan and Iraq, the coalition of the willing was never truly held accountable for the millions of civilians who died as a consequence of those invasions. I think it’s rooted in tribalism - it’s human nature to want to pick a side, and stick by it. But it often results in the dehumanizations of other people just like us - who have mothers and fathers, children, celebrate their birthdays, who tell jokes, who smile and cry, feel pain and joy, all of that. my heart goes to the people murdered in israel by Hamas, and to the Palestinians getting massacred in gaza right now. I’m praying everyday that when this is over I’ll hear from my friends in Palestine and that they’re okay, but this time I don’t think they’re all going to make it. Yup, tribalism. How quickly some people sacrifice their empathy at the alter of tribalism, how quickly some people minimize the lives of those who don't belong to their supported faction. I feel for Israeli families who have had their family ripped apart, for fathers and mothers who have lost children, for children and youth who've lost siblings and parents. I feel similarly for the Palestinian people who have and will continue to experience similar losses, because Israel's retribution will be widespread and both their government and folks around the world will be quick to write off dead civilians as collateral damage as they work to root out Hamas. I feel for those such as yourself who are hoping those they care for will get through this unscathed somehow. I point fingers at Hamas for carrying out the attacks and their disregard of human life, and I will continue to point fingers at and criticize Israel for their historical treatment of what are essentially Palestinian captives. Israel is a world power backed by the largest military power in the world, they dictate many facets of Palestinian life and can deprive their captives of essentials like food, water, fuel, and power for whatever reason they feel like coming up with. Their treatment of the Palestinian people has contributed to this cycle of hatred, violence, and death and will continue to unless they take a step back from their roles of oppressor and colonizer. When discussing things like war and geopolitics it's easy to fall into the trap of dehumanizing people. Maybe this whole thing is too deep rooted, maybe there never is anything more than perhaps an uneasy peace or ceasefire, but unless Israel plays a role in changing things for the better we'll never know. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, RomanPer said: Sorry, this is not an answer. You are pointing to a specific action by Israel with a blame. I'm asking a very legitimate question with a very comparable example. Well it will have to do. But cutting off water, food, fuel and electricity is more than a specific action imo, its a sweeping action that will affect thier population in many awful ways. I cant condone suffering of innocents. No matter how many examples you bring from other wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Yup, tribalism. How quickly some people sacrifice their empathy at the alter of tribalism, how quickly some people minimize the lives of those who don't belong to their supported faction. I feel for Israeli families who have had their family ripped apart, for fathers and mothers who have lost children, for children and youth who've lost siblings and parents. I feel similarly for the Palestinian people who have and will continue to experience similar losses, because Israel's retribution will be widespread and both their government and folks around the world will be quick to write off dead civilians as collateral damage as they work to root out Hamas. I feel for those such as yourself who are hoping those they care for will get through this unscathed somehow. I point fingers at Hamas for carrying out the attacks and their disregard of human life, and I will continue to point fingers at and criticize Israel for their historical treatment of what are essentially Palestinian captives. Israel is a world power backed by the largest military power in the world, they dictate many facets of Palestinian life and can deprive their captives of essentials like food, water, fuel, and power for whatever reason they feel like coming up with. Their treatment of the Palestinian people has contributed to this cycle of hatred, violence, and death and will continue to unless they take a step back from their roles of oppressor and colonizer. When discussing things like war and geopolitics it's easy to fall into the trap of dehumanizing people. Maybe this whole thing is too deep rooted, maybe there never is anything more than perhaps an uneasy peace or ceasefire, but unless Israel plays a role in changing things for the better we'll never know. Sorry, but see my hypothetical question to @bishopshodan a few posts up. Residents of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents them as per democratic process. If they are unhappy with that representation (like many in Israel are not happy with Netanyahu and protest against his policies), where are the protests within Gaza against Hamas policies? 1 minute ago, bishopshodan said: Well it will have to do. But cutting off water, food, fuel and electricity is more than a specific action imo, its a sweeping action that will affect thier population in many awful ways. I cant condone suffering of innocents. No matter how many examples you bring from other wars. Well, then it’s called “double standards” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Playoff Beered said: Not gonna go down whatabout road. Not going down any roand, other than pointing out that dead people/kids are dead, just as the IDF points out. Dead is dead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Sorry, but see my hypothetical question to @bishopshodan a few posts up. Residents of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents them as per democratic process. If they are unhappy with that representation (like many in Israel are not happy with Netanyahu and protest against his policies), where are the protests within Gaza against Hamas policies? Well, then it’s called “double standards” Where? Right here: https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672 1 hour ago, RomanPer said: Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine it's 1938 and UK and Germany have an agreement where UK supplies energy and food to Germany. UK is maintaining its side of the deal. Now it's 1942 and Germany starts bombarding UK. Would you expect UK to continue supplying energy and food to Germany? This is a ridiculous analogy, sorry Roman. The UK and Germany were both sovereign countries Israel is a sovereign country, Gaza is an open air prison filled with refugees driven there by foreign colonial settlers. Those colonial settlers have some obligations to their prisoners. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 2 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Sorry, but see my hypothetical question to @bishopshodan a few posts up. Residents of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents them as per democratic process. If they are unhappy with that representation (like many in Israel are not happy with Netanyahu and protest against his policies), where are the protests within Gaza against Hamas policies? Well, then it’s called “double standards” So you're just saying 'all bets are off'? Palestinian civilians can be targeted ...an eye for an eye? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted October 12, 2023 Just now, bishopshodan said: So you're just saying 'all bets are off'? Palestinian civilians can be targeted ...an eye for an eye? Gonna give him a wide berth and benefit of the doubt because of the suffering he and his family are going through, and will just assume this is fog of war i dont think in his heart hes actually okay with innocent civilians on either side being killed 1 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 6 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: So you're just saying 'all bets are off'? Palestinian civilians can be targeted ...an eye for an eye? You are putting words in my mouth and not answering a very direct question I asked you because you don’t have a good answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) Usually avoid Tic Tok, but this is quite relevant, especially the ending...this is from 9 years ago. Edited October 12, 2023 by Playoff Beered 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: Usually avoid Tic Tok, but this is quite relevant, especially the ending... Yeah, especially in Canada and the United States. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, RomanPer said: You are putting words in my mouth and not answering a very direct question I asked you because you don’t have a good answer. I'm not putting words in your mouth. If you feel that way, just say that you dont condone attacking civilians. I upvoted the post that suggested that you dont, but you are for some reason bringing up another war with a hypothetical to see if you can get me to agree with targeting civilians? why are you doing that? I cant give you an answer in this conflict...but I will never support attacking civilians. Edited October 12, 2023 by bishopshodan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eeeeeeeeergh Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 minute ago, Playoff Beered said: Usually avoid Tic Tok, but this is quite relevant, especially the ending... jon stewart is a treasure unbelievable that for many years the most reliable geopolitical analysis came from comedy central, on a show that aired after muppets making crank phone calls 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Playoff Beered Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 25 minutes ago, RomanPer said: Sorry, but see my hypothetical question to @bishopshodan a few posts up. Residents of Gaza elected Hamas. Hamas represents them as per democratic process. If they are unhappy with that representation (like many in Israel are not happy with Netanyahu and protest against his policies), where are the protests within Gaza against Hamas policies? Well, then it’s called “double standards” https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests-against-hamas-reemerge-in-the-streets-of-gaza-but-will-they-persist/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-security-forces-disperse-rare-protests-against-the-group-in-gaza/ https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/07/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-protests-hamas.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-60173481 Let's work through them, picking out chunks from each. It's pretty clear why pushback against Hamas doesn't happen as often as you'd like. The Palestinian people aren't impacted by one oppressive force, but two. Spoiler Link 1. Given the near-complete absence of free media in the Strip, it is difficult for outside analysts to gauge how many people participated in the latest round of protests. According to videos circulating on social media, numbers seemed to be significantly larger in the first demonstration than in the second, when Hamas’s security apparatus adopted preventive measures. Protests were scheduled to take place once again throughout the strip on Monday. However, Hamas came prepared to thwart them. “In all the locations where we announced that gatherings would take place, there was a heavy presence of civilian and military security, and police cars everywhere,” a source inside Gaza told The Times of Israel on Tuesday. “Whenever two people were walking together, they were forbidden to stop on the street, after not even a minute [security forces] would go up to them and tell them ‘get out of here or we will take you with us,'” he said. “People are much more outspoken against Hamas on social media today than they were 10 or five years ago,” said Rami Aman, a prominent Gazan peace activist living in Cairo, and a critic of the terror group that rules the enclave. “Back then, people would not dare make their opinions heard online for fear of retaliation.” “There is not a single family in Gaza that has not suffered at the hands of Hamas in one way or another, because of arrests or persecution. People are tired of having no opportunities and no way out. The only way to make a decent living is to be affiliated with Hamas. If you want to apply for a government job, you need a letter from your mosque,” he explained. Popular discontent with the Hamas regime in Gaza has been simmering for years. Since the group wrested control of the coastal strip from the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority in 2007, large-scale protests have taken place on several occasions, most recently in April 2015, January 2017 and again in 2019. Each time, protests were repressed by Hamas security forces and did not lead to any significant changes for the local population. On the afternoon of July 30 marches took place throughout Gaza, with protesters chanting “shame” against the regime. Demonstrators waved Palestinian flags, while some were filmed tearing up the Hamas flag. In one case, some people reportedly burned the group’s banner, before security services quickly intervened to break up the gathering. In preparation for the following round of protests on August 4, Hamas rounded up dozens of activists in the days prior, according to local activists. Videos on social media showed Hamas security forces deploying in large numbers throughout the Strip on Friday morning, hours before the start of the protests. Hamas also rallied its own base and organized counter-protests in support of the regime. “Hamas, since its coup against the legitimate ruler [the PA], has not made any improvement to the infrastructure of the Gaza Strip, and has not been able to provide the basic services that our people are deprived of, such as electricity,” al-Bardeni added. “The uprising of the people of Gaza against Hamas is not surprising even for those who voted for them in the 2006 elections,” he said, referencing the last elections held in the Palestinian territories, “because Hamas eventually reneged on all their slogans.” “Still, 70 percent of the Gazan population receives food aid from international humanitarian organizations, and unemployment stands at 45%. The work permits granted by Israel to about 17,000 Gazan laborers are only a drop in the ocean,” he said. “Every year, tens of thousands of young Gazans finish college, but they have no employment opportunities, and nowhere else to go. Under a regime that does not allow room for political dissent, electricity has become the rallying cause for citizens to express their grievances. Mustafa said that with over 70% youth unemployment and an average per capita income per day of NIS 20, or $5.5, intermittent access to electricity, and undrinkable tap water, life in the enclave is barely livable for the vast majority of citizens who are not somehow tied to Hamas. Leaving the Strip requires at least $10,000 to be smuggled out illegally, with high chances of dying on the way to freedom, he added. This is all because “Gazan civilians are exploited as a pawn in a struggle between regional forces, and Hamas uses its citizens as human shields to defend its project of ‘Islamic resistance’ while it silences and threatens to kill any opposition,” he continued. “The Israeli side looks at us as terrorists, not as people with dreams and aspirations,” Mustafa said. “But the reality is quite different: Most of the people of Gaza are innocent civilians living in dire humanitarian conditions. They only dream of a decent life, freedom, justice, peace and democratic elections. “This is why people took to the streets. To demand their most basic rights, an improvement in their living conditions, an end to poverty, unemployment, the lack of water and electricity, and to protest the imposition of power by force, being silenced and spied on,” he said. “You can divide the people of Gaza in two: a large majority living under the poverty line, and a small ruling elite affiliated with Hamas and other Islamist factions, who live off the funding received by the ‘resistance,’” he added. Link 2. Hamas-run security forces broke up protests against the terror group in the Gaza Strip Thursday, eyewitnesses said, cracking down on a rare public show of dissent in the coastal enclave. Dozens of security officials, many in plain clothes, dispersed a demonstration in northern Gaza, the eyewitnesses said. Dozens of people had been protesting there. In a separate protest in central Gaza, dozens of people demonstrated, including by setting tires on fire. The protests had been organized to call for an improvement in the quality of life in Gaza, which suffers from high unemployment, widespread poverty and poor electricity and water infrastructure Hamas seized Gaza from the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority in a 2007 near civil war. The terror group had surprisingly won Palestinian parliamentary elections a year earlier. Since then it has controlled Gaza, while the PA has maintained limited self-rule in the occupied West Bank. Link 3. Several thousand people briefly took to the streets across the Gaza Strip on Sunday to protest chronic power outages and difficult living conditions, providing a rare public show of discontent with the territory’s Hamas government. Hamas security forces quickly dispersed the gatherings. Marches took place in Gaza City, the southern town of Khan Younis and other locations, chanting “what a shame” and in one place burning Hamas flags, before police moved in and broke up the protests. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist, barring most demonstrations and quickly stamping out public displays of dissent. Protesters also criticized Hamas for deducting a roughly $15 fee from monthly $100 stipends given to Gaza’s poorest families by the wealthy Gulf state of Qatar. Link 4. Requires a subscription, but again, another news story. Find a workaround if you really want to read it. Link 5. Hundreds of Palestinian activists have been taking part in a rare online event strongly criticising Hamas governance of the Gaza Strip. Living conditions in Gaza are dire. There is a severe lack of water, poor sewage treatment and long daily power cuts. Some 67% of the youth workforce are unemployed - with the highest figures among graduates. The economy has been badly hit by the pandemic and an 11-day conflict between Israel and Hamas militants in May 2021. However, it is unusual to hear residents voice any complaints about those in charge out of fear. "Hamas has billions of dollars in investments in many countries, while people [in Gaza] starve to death and migrate in search of work," said another activist, Amer Balosha, during the social media event. In 2019, demonstrations over the high price of food and lack of jobs brought hundreds of Gazans out on the streets of city centres and refugee camps. They were of a scale and intensity that had not previously been seen under Hamas's iron rule. Videos shared online showed security services hitting people and shooting live ammunition into the air to disperse the crowds. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 5 minutes ago, Coconuts said: https://www.timesofisrael.com/protests-against-hamas-reemerge-in-the-streets-of-gaza-but-will-they-persist/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/hamas-security-forces-disperse-rare-protests-against-the-group-in-gaza/ https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672 https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/07/world/middleeast/gaza-strip-protests-hamas.html https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-60173481 Let's work through them, picking out chunks from each. It's pretty clear why pushback against Hamas doesn't happen as often as you'd like. The Palestinian people aren't impacted by one oppressive force, but two. Hide contents Link 1. Given the near-complete absence of free media in the Strip, it is difficult for outside analysts to gauge how many people participated in the latest round of protests. According to videos circulating on social media, numbers seemed to be significantly larger in the first demonstration than in the second, when Hamas’s security apparatus adopted preventive measures. Protests were scheduled to take place once again throughout the strip on Monday. However, Hamas came prepared to thwart them. “In all the locations where we announced that gatherings would take place, there was a heavy presence of civilian and military security, and police cars everywhere,” a source inside Gaza told The Times of Israel on Tuesday. “Whenever two people were walking together, they were forbidden to stop on the street, after not even a minute [security forces] would go up to them and tell them ‘get out of here or we will take you with us,'” he said. “People are much more outspoken against Hamas on social media today than they were 10 or five years ago,” said Rami Aman, a prominent Gazan peace activist living in Cairo, and a critic of the terror group that rules the enclave. “Back then, people would not dare make their opinions heard online for fear of retaliation.” “There is not a single family in Gaza that has not suffered at the hands of Hamas in one way or another, because of arrests or persecution. People are tired of having no opportunities and no way out. The only way to make a decent living is to be affiliated with Hamas. If you want to apply for a government job, you need a letter from your mosque,” he explained. Popular discontent with the Hamas regime in Gaza has been simmering for years. Since the group wrested control of the coastal strip from the Fatah-run Palestinian Authority in 2007, large-scale protests have taken place on several occasions, most recently in April 2015, January 2017 and again in 2019. Each time, protests were repressed by Hamas security forces and did not lead to any significant changes for the local population. On the afternoon of July 30 marches took place throughout Gaza, with protesters chanting “shame” against the regime. Demonstrators waved Palestinian flags, while some were filmed tearing up the Hamas flag. In one case, some people reportedly burned the group’s banner, before security services quickly intervened to break up the gathering. In preparation for the following round of protests on August 4, Hamas rounded up dozens of activists in the days prior, according to local activists. Videos on social media showed Hamas security forces deploying in large numbers throughout the Strip on Friday morning, hours before the start of the protests. Hamas also rallied its own base and organized counter-protests in support of the regime. “Hamas, since its coup against the legitimate ruler [the PA], has not made any improvement to the infrastructure of the Gaza Strip, and has not been able to provide the basic services that our people are deprived of, such as electricity,” al-Bardeni added. “The uprising of the people of Gaza against Hamas is not surprising even for those who voted for them in the 2006 elections,” he said, referencing the last elections held in the Palestinian territories, “because Hamas eventually reneged on all their slogans.” “Still, 70 percent of the Gazan population receives food aid from international humanitarian organizations, and unemployment stands at 45%. The work permits granted by Israel to about 17,000 Gazan laborers are only a drop in the ocean,” he said. “Every year, tens of thousands of young Gazans finish college, but they have no employment opportunities, and nowhere else to go. Under a regime that does not allow room for political dissent, electricity has become the rallying cause for citizens to express their grievances. Mustafa said that with over 70% youth unemployment and an average per capita income per day of NIS 20, or $5.5, intermittent access to electricity, and undrinkable tap water, life in the enclave is barely livable for the vast majority of citizens who are not somehow tied to Hamas. Leaving the Strip requires at least $10,000 to be smuggled out illegally, with high chances of dying on the way to freedom, he added. This is all because “Gazan civilians are exploited as a pawn in a struggle between regional forces, and Hamas uses its citizens as human shields to defend its project of ‘Islamic resistance’ while it silences and threatens to kill any opposition,” he continued. “The Israeli side looks at us as terrorists, not as people with dreams and aspirations,” Mustafa said. “But the reality is quite different: Most of the people of Gaza are innocent civilians living in dire humanitarian conditions. They only dream of a decent life, freedom, justice, peace and democratic elections. “This is why people took to the streets. To demand their most basic rights, an improvement in their living conditions, an end to poverty, unemployment, the lack of water and electricity, and to protest the imposition of power by force, being silenced and spied on,” he said. “You can divide the people of Gaza in two: a large majority living under the poverty line, and a small ruling elite affiliated with Hamas and other Islamist factions, who live off the funding received by the ‘resistance,’” he added. Link 2. Hamas-run security forces broke up protests against the terror group in the Gaza Strip Thursday, eyewitnesses said, cracking down on a rare public show of dissent in the coastal enclave. Dozens of security officials, many in plain clothes, dispersed a demonstration in northern Gaza, the eyewitnesses said. Dozens of people had been protesting there. In a separate protest in central Gaza, dozens of people demonstrated, including by setting tires on fire. The protests had been organized to call for an improvement in the quality of life in Gaza, which suffers from high unemployment, widespread poverty and poor electricity and water infrastructure Hamas seized Gaza from the internationally recognized Palestinian Authority in a 2007 near civil war. The terror group had surprisingly won Palestinian parliamentary elections a year earlier. Since then it has controlled Gaza, while the PA has maintained limited self-rule in the occupied West Bank. Link 3. Several thousand people briefly took to the streets across the Gaza Strip on Sunday to protest chronic power outages and difficult living conditions, providing a rare public show of discontent with the territory’s Hamas government. Hamas security forces quickly dispersed the gatherings. Marches took place in Gaza City, the southern town of Khan Younis and other locations, chanting “what a shame” and in one place burning Hamas flags, before police moved in and broke up the protests. Hamas rules Gaza with an iron fist, barring most demonstrations and quickly stamping out public displays of dissent. Protesters also criticized Hamas for deducting a roughly $15 fee from monthly $100 stipends given to Gaza’s poorest families by the wealthy Gulf state of Qatar. Link 4. Requires a subscription, but again, another news story. Find a workaround if you really want to read it. Link 5. Hundreds of Palestinian activists have been taking part in a rare online event strongly criticising Hamas governance of the Gaza Strip. Living conditions in Gaza are dire. There is a severe lack of water, poor sewage treatment and long daily power cuts. Some 67% of the youth workforce are unemployed - with the highest figures among graduates. The economy has been badly hit by the pandemic and an 11-day conflict between Israel and Hamas militants in May 2021. However, it is unusual to hear residents voice any complaints about those in charge out of fear. "Hamas has billions of dollars in investments in many countries, while people [in Gaza] starve to death and migrate in search of work," said another activist, Amer Balosha, during the social media event. In 2019, demonstrations over the high price of food and lack of jobs brought hundreds of Gazans out on the streets of city centres and refugee camps. They were of a scale and intensity that had not previously been seen under Hamas's iron rule. Videos shared online showed security services hitting people and shooting live ammunition into the air to disperse the crowds. Thank you, didn't know that. 45 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: I'm not putting words in your mouth. If you feel that way, just say that you dont condone attacking civilians. I upvoted the post that suggested that you dont, but you are for some reason bringing up another war with a hypothetical to see if you can get me to agree with targeting civilians? why are you doing that? I cant give you an answer in this conflict...but I will never support attacking civilians. My question was not about attacking civilians, which I don't condone. However, if civilians are warned but choose to stay, what can the other side do? My question was in relation to supplying energy, food and water to the "other" side. I'm sure there were some Germans in Nazi Germany that didn't support hitler's policy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 On 10/10/2023 at 10:18 PM, RomanPer said: Hamas is just a fraction of PLO that believed that a Arafat sold his soul to the Jews. If you go back, PLO had the same goal - to kill all the Jews. Those who were religious fanatics made the grassroots of Hamas. Their original win cam because of corruption levels within Fatah. After that it’s scare tactics and propaganda, akin russian internal propaganda. Speaking of russia - there are more and more signs that Wagner mercenaries not only trained Hamas since fall of 2022 but also participated in the raids on Saturday. Waiting for the concrete proof. First signs of proof of Russian connection to the attack. On the video below in several places one can hear Russian words “Prikryvajte, prikryvajte!” (means “cover, cover”). This is a video from the October 7 attack. The new information (still waiting for confirmations on that) is that the instructors were actually Russian GRU officers and the information about Wagner was deliberate disinformation started by the Russians themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Oh FFS! This is like living through the cold war. Blame everything on Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Oh FFS! This is like living through the cold war. Blame everything on Russia. They certainly have something to gain by diverting Western attention towards Israel. They also gave a history of meddling in conflicts in Africa. Not sure why you'd doubt that they'd stoop to this level considering their barbaric regime. Edited October 12, 2023 by King Heffy 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 3 minutes ago, King Heffy said: They certainly have something to gain by diverting Western attention towards Israel. They also gave a history of meddling in conflicts in Africa. Not sure why you'd doubt that they'd stoop to this level considering their barbaric regime. I guess the guys in the video just studied in russia and learned the language and then randomly decided in the high pressure situation to use that language. Of course, makes perfect sense 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Just now, RomanPer said: I guess the guys in the video just studied in russia and learned the language and then randomly decided in the high pressure situation to use that language. Of course, makes perfect sense I honestly had my suspicions even before you posted yours, but had no source other than my own guess. Russia really wants to avoid Israel deciding to strike the Iranian drone factories. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Just now, King Heffy said: I honestly had my suspicions even before you posted yours, but had no source other than my own guess. Russia really wants to avoid Israel deciding to strike the Iranian drone factories. There are several other pieces of information that make sense but unsubstantiated at the moment - October 7th wasn't selected randomly. It's a combination of 2 dates - 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur war and guess whose birthday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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