Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

22 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

I honestly meant no malice.  I just found it odd that so many of those tweets were posted.

 

I don't spend anywhere near as much time on CFF as I used to on CDC 4 years ago.  I apologize for being unaware of your past comments on your computer skills.

 

These days I jump on and off CFF relatively quickly.

 

I know you don't brother.

 

I remember you disappeared for a while, when you came back, I stated it was good to see you back.

 

You are a well informed intelligent poster.

I don't agree with all your views, just as you probably don't agree with all of mine.

 

What I respect about you the most, is that you never make it personal, and you take criticism very well. 

 

And thanks for the apology, means a lot.

 

A little respect goes a long way.

 

 

[Sabrefan1]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Thanks for the information.

 

I don't know about that brother in regards to shutting down protests.

That's our right to protest against what we believe to be wrong.

As long as they are peaceful/non violent and don't promote bigotry, I believe we all have the right to protest.

 

I believe in the right to protest as well, but when the protests start to get chaotic and aren't heading anywhere productive, they need to be broken up. 

 

The good thing is, that I seriously doubt that the arrests headed anywhere besides a bench and an appearance ticket where the charges will either be dropped or reduced to a violation with a small fine.  I also wouldn't be surprised if some were just uncuffed and let go without charges after everything broke up.

 

The arrests are mainly just to break up what's going on.

[Rook]

8 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You obviously choose which posts of mine to read.

 

I have always stated that there is blame on both sides.

That's this conflict is a circle of hatred on both sides.

And this phase of the conflict, which is unlike any other before it,  in relation to the suffering, is very probably breeding a new generation of extremists. 

 

 

What about the Palestinians in the West Bank and east Jerusalem ?

 

No Hamas in those places. 

 

Isreali settlers committing acts of terror.

Murdering Palestinians.

Stealing land. 

 

 

 

I guess this is what irks me, you come back with comments like, from my safe place.  My family fought for their lives across Europe, and I would do the same if it were to come to my home no matter what the personal cost.  Dont forget the murdering that Palestinians do as well.  You are a pretty big apologist for them. And without Palestinians stopping the constant middle attacks and terror attacks there cannot be peace. A lot of whataboutism in your posts.  Why don’t they free the rest of the hostages?  Are you ok with all the dead Israelites?

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Do people have the right to protest against Hamas in Gaza or against the Iranian government in Iran? 

 

Don't you remember Alf, a while back I posted about Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas'.

 

I wish more of them would.

I kinda understand why many Palestinians' don't though.

If you had a family, would you risk their lives protesting against armed thugs/terrorists ?

 

I have also applauded the courage of Iranians who protest against their extremist regime. 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Don't you remember Alf, a while back I posted about Palestinians in Gaza protesting against Hamas'.

 

I wish more of them would.

I kinda understand why many Palestinians' don't though.

If you had a family, would you risk their lives protesting against armed thugs/terrorists ?

 

I have also applauded the courage of Iranians who protest against their extremist regime. 

 

 

 

And there is the difference between our world and theirs. In those extremist states regular people are killed for protesting. And Hamas has published doctrine saying they want their ways to be imposed on everyone. These are bad people who must be totally destroyed. There can be no peace with these types. Hopefully the IDF continues their mission and gets them all. 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

I believe in the right to protest as well, but when the protests start to get chaotic and aren't heading anywhere productive, they need to be broken up. 

 

The good thing is, that I seriously doubt that the arrests headed anywhere besides a bench and an appearance ticket where the charges will either be dropped or reduced to a violation with a small fine.  I also wouldn't be surprised if some were just uncuffed and let go without charges after everything broke up.

 

The arrests are mainly just to break up what's going on.

 

If you are conversant with my posts I condemn all violence....

Full stop. 

 

As I have stated many times, I used to believe violence was a way to teach people " a lesson " in regards to the racist skinheads we used to punch on with in the western suburbs of Melbourne, in the mid to late 80's, when I lost my way in life. 

 

Now I promote peaceful solutions to solving our problems. 

 

I don't care when people call me a pacifist, I am actually happy to be called that.

 

I agree that those arrests were made to break up the protests.

I actually posted an article in regards to the Texas protests, prosecutors were not going to lay charges.

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, Rook said:

I guess this is what irks me, you come back with comments like, from my safe place.  My family fought for their lives across Europe, and I would do the same if it were to come to my home no matter what the personal cost.  Dont forget the murdering that Palestinians do as well.  You are a pretty big apologist for them. And without Palestinians stopping the constant middle attacks and terror attacks there cannot be peace. A lot of whataboutism in your posts.  Why don’t they free the rest of the hostages?  Are you ok with all the dead Israelites?

 

I can tell you this, I really don't like being told what to do.

You ask me to do something and I will break my back for you.

Tell me, and I am not going to be happy. 

 

My dad lied about his age to fight on D- day, he didn't even make it up the beach.

The doctors told him he would live longer if he moved to a warmer climate, that was the main reason he came to Aus.

 

I have never, ever apologised for murder or violence.

I continually condemn all violence, anywhere, by anyone. 

I get labelled a pacifist by some for my views.

I am more than happy to wear that label.

 

I have condemned Hamas for their actions before and after the October 7 attacks.

If you have read all my posts in this thread,  you would know this. 

 

I have seen the results of violence.

I have been shot, stabbed and beaten with baseball bats.

 

I continually preach for peaceful solutions.

Posting articles and videos which detail Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace.

 

Forgiving each other for things most of us would find unforgivable.

 

If you were conversant with my posting history in this thread you would know all of this.

 

You wouldn't be asking me if I was happy about Isreali deaths, you would know I mourn not just, Isreali and Palestinian deaths, but all deaths.

In all the stupid conflicts our species fights.

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

20 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And there is the difference between our world and theirs. In those extremist states regular people are killed for protesting. And Hamas has published doctrine saying they want their ways to be imposed on everyone. These are bad people who must be totally destroyed. There can be no peace with these types. Hopefully the IDF continues their mission and gets them all. 

 

Source for Hamas wants their ways to be imposed on everyone please.

 

And by every one I mean all the rest of the world. 

 

I have detailed how  people who have a great more deal of knowledge than any of us here on CFF don't believe Hamas' can be destroyed.

 

How this conflict, the way Israel is now conducting it, is unethical/unjust,

Jewish voices. 

 

Hundreds of thousands of children are starving Alf.

 

History will damn the Isrealis for this. 

Just as it will damn Hamas' for their actions on October 7 and before that.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, Warhippy said:

This argument about their being no Jews in (insert place here) is ridiculous because the conflict is occurring where they were settled not where they weren't.

 

If there is nobody if that faith in those regions.  So be it.  It's immaterial to the issue at hand.

 

Someone getting pickles on their sub in line before me when I don't want pickles to begin with doesn't bother me.

 

Jewish people in 100's of thousands, in some cases millions were chased out of various Muslim countries. So were other minorities as regime's centralize around there ethnic base. Christians; for example over 2 MILLION in Iraq have been expelled in the last 25 years.  There are virtually none now. Minorities in many Islamic countries do not have the right to own land, vote, congregate, engage in their own religion, follow their own customs.  Just as Palestinians, Jewish or Arab, did not have such rights under Ottoman rule 100 years ago.

 

In Tunisia, for example, Jewish groups held very traditional non modern views and practices, ran businesses and trading posts.  Most left in purges and Pogroms in the early 1960's as local populations revolted against French colonial rule.  But all minorities were attacked.  Then again as Islamic extremism exploded, as well as anti-semitic views after the 6 day war in 1967. Jews were killing Muslims, so revenge was exacted. Most ended up in Israel, just did not up and leave their home when Israel was first formed. Its a larger problem than that though.

 

Take Iran a majority, or Afghanistan a minority. Ruling parties impose religious rule and militant control in various forms. Women in Afghanistan not allowed go to school, or work, who did not want to wear a Hijab fled to Pakistan. Now, as uninvited non legal immigrant's, more than a million Afghani's are being expelled. Then move in to disputed territories. This also happened during the Arab spring throughout the ME.  Militant groups scattered to fill voids as dictators and nations like Iraq, Yemen & Egypt fell, and countless countries in Africa. These rebel groups almost exclusively ethnic based. They are blood thirsty & highly selective. Anyone outside their control group is dispatched. Ethnic cleansing by forcing boys to war, killing men, offering women as prizes to fighters is actually common. This did occur in all the area's I noted in my earlier post. Occurs in area's where Jewish people have never lived. Its not exclusive against Jews.  

 

Many Jews, however did have the wealth and a place to go.  Too bad the same has not been the case, for example, for Yazidi women in Syria?  Ask yourself why there are almost no minorities in Gaza? Yes many left. More should have. Guess what happens to men with Hamas if they don't want to fight as battles took place. Just as happened in Syria, Iraq, Sudan. Would you want to live here if you are not part of that Hamas control group...

 

Many left. Some were pushed out windows. Much of the Islamic world is caught up in civil rights issues. Some in violent, corrupt, battles for ethnic centered feudal control.

 

People have a mistaken sense that this does not result in Apartheid's for these various regions. No Israel should not contribute, or try to profit from this, which their extremists do. Israel, for this short moment might be the regions greatest problem. But there are countries with ten & twenty times the death toll. Where rulers dominate as Hamas does.

 

The problem exists with and without Israel.  

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

17 hours ago, Warhippy said:

The moment those nations start starving families.  Bombing kids and murdering individuals openly while kicking them from their homes and claiming it is for peace or whatever nonsense for decades

 

Then you'll have an argument 

 

Honestly; don't be daft. Please find where I backed Israel trying to achieve peace by bombing Gaza? I called on Israel to show restraint, not bomb Gaza. Still do.

 

I argued, Israel as the first world and by far most powerful nation, should take a leadership role. Prosecute its Settlers, and hand back land, delete the heavy handed activities it takes part in. Which could lead to an expectation Palestinians did the same. That if Palestinians could not because of Hamas; they could ask the UN or other faculties to intervene.

 

Virtually every one of those countries has been held hostage by militant groups at civil war with each other. Many repeatedly, over & over. Death, displacement, human trafficking, ethnic cleansing is commonplace. The death toll by those hands staggers the death in Gaza. Check the track record of human rights for minorities in all thos e places. You suggested Jews left them as if for a beach holiday.   

 

Ignorant\ce to the realities of this conflict, as if Israel is the only aggressor, will not solve anything.  

[Bob Long]

13 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

And so do I brother.

 

But it's obvious that the Palestinians suffer more than the Isrealis.

 

If you had to choose out of living in Israel, Gaza and the West Bank, where would you live ?

 

I'd pick the democracy.

[Alflives]

11 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Source for Hamas wants their ways to be imposed on everyone please.

 

And by every one I mean all the rest of the world. 

 

I have detailed how  people who have a great more deal of knowledge than any of us here on CFF don't believe Hamas' can be destroyed.

 

How this conflict, the way Israel is now conducting it, is unethical/unjust,

Jewish voices. 

 

Hundreds of thousands of children are starving Alf.

 

History will damn the Isrealis for this. 

Just as it will damn Hamas' for their actions on October 7 and before that.

 

 

World Caliphate. Not too sure how you interpret that? Hamas is evil. They must be eliminated. 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

World Caliphate. Not too sure how you interpret that? Hamas is evil. They must be eliminated. 

 

one of the things I find a bit fascinating about this conflict is how Hamas seems to have a level of tolerance with some people, as if they were some kind of heroic freedom fighters. You even see comparisons to South Africa and the ANC. 

 

Maybe I missed it, did the ANC murder 1200 people one afternoon to make a point? 

 

Its one thing to target a military installation, a power plant, etc., its another to give a fundamentalist terror group, backed by other terrorists groups and Iran, that kind of sympathy. 

 

[Alflives]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

one of the things I find a bit fascinating about this conflict is how Hamas seems to have a level of tolerance with some people, as if they were some kind of heroic freedom fighters. You even see comparisons to South Africa and the ANC. 

 

Maybe I missed it, did the ANC murder 1200 people one afternoon to make a point? 

 

Its one thing to target a military installation, a power plant, etc., its another to give a fundamentalist terror group, backed by other terrorists groups and Iran, that kind of sympathy. 

 

Yup. Don’t understand this acceptance of Hamas (in our western world) either. It’s almost like being blinded to how cancer is not going to spread and eventually cause you to suffer a horrible death. And don’t seek treatment but rather feed it. 

[Bob Long]

7 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Don’t understand this acceptance of Hamas (in our western world) either. It’s almost like being blinded to how cancer is not going to spread and eventually cause you to suffer a horrible death. And don’t seek treatment but rather feed it. 

 

some folks have a strong desire to be part of a movement, be part of something changing the world for the good. That can be harnessed by some bad actors. 

 

No one likes what the IDF has done, they've gone too far in many instances. We also know if the IDF puts down its guns, Hamas will kill every Jew in Israel. 

 

Nothing is good about this, but I do know that Israel is a democracy that can shed itself of the right wing psycho's and thats where the ultimate chance for peace lies, imo anyway. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Maybe I missed it, did the ANC murder 1200 people one afternoon to make a point?

 

Also launched missiles from behind West Bank herders fences, caves & Gaza roof tops aimed at civilian area's. Since before they even took power 2005/06. Blown up tourist busses, and taken kidnap victims, yada, yada. Their predecessor PLO, hijacked airplanes in remote countries, terrorized Olympic villages.

 

Israel retaliates, or intimidates depending on who you talk to, with killing reporters, shooting stone hurling teen agers. Rampages by extremists through Palestinian mosques and business sectors. Expels farmers, harasses businesses and buys the land, steals it on many occasions, for pennies on the dollar. 

 

Oct 7 was not just a point, it was an act designed to draw Israel in to war planned over more than a decade. Unfortunately too successful. 

[Canuck Surfer]

30 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

one of the things I find a bit fascinating about this conflict is how Hamas seems to have a level of tolerance with some people

 

One of the things I find fascinating is Hamas is hardly a lone wolf. 

 

There are these militant driven, corrupt civil wars & power struggles constantly in the Middle East. Each with a new warlord who steals control of territory from rival gangs and cultures. When the PLO fails, Hamas lines up. Larger countries, like Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan simply have more factions. Al qaeda & ISIS pop up. Who control for payola smaller regions within nations, exporting their services across swaths of Africa, Central Asia. Looking for profits selling arms, human trafficking, acting as mercenaries. 

 

It's a full on regional power struggle. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

One of the things I find fascinating is Hamas is hardly a lone wolf. 

 

There are these militant driven, corrupt civil wars & power struggles constantly in the Middle East. Each with a new warlord who steals control of territory from rival gangs and cultures. When the PLO fails, Hamas lines up. Larger countries, like Afghanistan, Syria, Sudan simply have more factions. Al qaeda & ISIS pop up. Who control for payola smaller regions within nations, exporting their services across swaths of Africa, Central Asia. Looking for profits selling arms, human trafficking, acting as mercenaries. 

 

It's a full on regional power struggle. 

 

 

 

there's so many groups active in this its hard to keep track. It certainly isn't a simple narrative like "river to sea". 

Edited April 27 by Bob Long

[Boudrias]

29 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

some folks have a strong desire to be part of a movement, be part of something changing the world for the good. That can be harnessed by some bad actors. 

 

No one likes what the IDF has done, they've gone too far in many instances. We also know if the IDF puts down its guns, Hamas will kill every Jew in Israel. 

 

Nothing is good about this, but I do know that Israel is a democracy that can shed itself of the right wing psycho's and thats where the ultimate chance for peace lies, imo anyway. 

 

How does a army in the field conduct a humane war? Hamas is using their people as shields. The IDF cannot root out Hamas by exposing their troops to this type of warfare. You rightly point out the risk that all Israel is faced with if Humas succeeds. The Hamas battle plan was clearly planned for quite some time. They knew they could not win a military conflict. I highly doubt Hamas did not realize that their attack on Israel would not be supported by Sunni Arab neighbours. Hamas answers to Iran and the growing alliance of Israel with the Sunnis spells the end of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Hamas plan was to force Israel into some kind of peace plan that would ensure their ability to attack Israel once again in the future. 

 

To a degree the world wide condemnation of Israel is orchestrated. Billions of $'s are flowing into Gaza and much of it will be taken by Hamas. If the world were so concerned about the future of Palestinians why, after 75 years, would they have not made a truly serious effort to establish a peace plan that will work? The UN appears to have shoveled billions of $'s of questionable aid of which gangs and unelected politicians have plundered. 

 

IMHO it is not Israel's responsibility to craft a peace with those who want to kill them all. It is not Israel's responsibility to say that Palestinian is safe and the next is not. It s the IDF's job to secure their country. It is the world's responsibility to develop a long term solution.   

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Bob Long]

35 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

How does a army in the field conduct a humane war? Hamas is using their people as shields. The IDF cannot root out Hamas by exposing their troops to this type of warfare. You rightly point out the risk that all Israel is faced with if Humas succeeds. The Hamas battle plan was clearly planned for quite some time. They knew they could not win a military conflict. I highly doubt Hamas did not realize that their attack on Israel would not be supported by Sunni Arab neighbours. Hamas answers to Iran and the growing alliance of Israel with the Sunnis spells the end of Hamas and Hezbollah. The Hamas plan was to force Israel into some kind of peace plan that would ensure their ability to attack Israel once again in the future. 

 

To a degree the world wide condemnation of Israel is orchestrated. Billions of $'s are flowing into Gaza and much of it will be taken by Hamas. If the world were so concerned about the future of Palestinians why, after 75 years, would they have not made a truly serious effort to establish a peace plan that will work? The UN appears to have shoveled billions of $'s of questionable aid of which gangs and unelected politicians have plundered. 

 

IMHO it is not Israel's responsibility to craft a peace with those who want to kill them all. It is not Israel's responsibility to say that Palestinian is safe and the next is not. It s the IDF's job to secure their country. It is the world's responsibility to develop a long term solution.   

 

I posted a couple of articles above on the disinformation campaign thats sympathetic to Hamas interests. I don't think people are just zombies accepting whatever comes across their social media, but of course it will have an effect.

 

The Saudi's moving closer to a deal with Israel was too big a threat to the fundamentalists in the ME, they don't want peace, or at least one that has a Jewish neighbour.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

There is plenty of ignorance displayed. 

 

By commentary & protestors. Misinformation & mob mentality clearly contributing to stances taken. This is Fox news tho..., is it a campaign to grow these views?

 

I stand by that people have a right to protest.  Incitement and threats of violence are more protected under free speech in America. Yet still have a red line which it seems many will cross. Nothing is stopping police or media from taking name & numbers, recording what is said in a public domain.  ''We are all Hamas, Pig?'' I do not see a problem more thoroughly investigating if this is true for her...

 

Hopefully no Jan 6th level incitement, or worse which is certainly possible & has that look, will result.

 

 

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I posted a couple of articles above on the disinformation campaign thats sympathetic to Hamas interests. I don't think people are just zombies accepting whatever comes across their social media, but of course it will have an effect.

 

The Saudi's moving closer to a deal with Israel was too big a threat to the fundamentalists in the ME, they don't want peace, or at least one that has a Jewish neighbour.

 

Egypt was sending a peace mission to Israel. I have not heard their plan. It was the Muslim Brotherhood that killed Sadat who signed the peace treaty with Israel. If a peace agreement can be made with the Saudis and hopefully the attending economic benefit it might become a foundation for peace with the Palestinians. Frankly what the rest of the world becomes incidental as the rest of the world has not done much. For all those who support Hamas and indirectly the killing of Jews it must concern them about such a potential peace accord.

[Inkidu]

 

 

Sorry this is only one, not 100+ videos for your scrolling pleasure. 

I think underlying the growing aggressiveness of the Left, Islamism and others is due to the weaponization of "equality." 

A difficult (slanderous) guy at work put it this way: "I only respect people who respect me." I said that might be the problem right there, i.e. there can be no respect if everyone thinks that way.

Equality is similar in that we don't have a proper definition of what it is, but one thing I can say is it is not a weapon to be used for selfish gain.