Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Inkidu said:

I think underlying the growing aggressiveness of the Left

 

I think within any one constituency, left or right, there there tends to be a vote within party lines relating to views on support for Israel & oppression of Palestine.

 

Example; can any RW be considered serious or traditional with Trump in the US?   Who would have thunk Biden was closer to a war monger than the GOP, considering he served opposite both Bush administrations. 

 

 

My actual view is that regardless of ideology; regimes have to come closer to being in line with legal activity.  Problematically we are less informed on how strategic allegiances line up in dark corners of the world like the Middle East.  Someone is always supplying weapons to a marginal faction; hoping to profit if they gain power. Plus there are super Monopoly players including Iran, Wagner group, the Imperialist powers.

 

I say problematic? Quote / Unquote 'Intelligence' has always superseded ethics, usually politics. In spite of popular opinion. 

 

What Mossad, or the CIA knows is more important than if a Hermaphrodite wants to don a Palestinian flag. Is paid off to run a Bot farm by an Orthodox FSB agent.

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'd pick the democracy.

 

Exactly my point.

 

So why don't we try and help the Palestinians get what we have. 

 

Occupying/controlling them, continually taking more land from them isn't working.  

 

I have provided the figure for Palestinian deaths and casualties since 2005 until 2023.

120,000 compared to nearly 6,000 Isreali deaths and casualties.

I mourn them all, however maybe if Isreal wasn't occupying the West Bank and east Jerusalem, and blockading Gaza there would be, at the very least far less deaths and casualties. 

 

Music brings people together so I will post this song 

One of the first punk bands I used to listen to back in the 70's

 

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by Ilunga

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Exactly my point.

 

So why don't we try and help the Palestinians get what we have. 

 

Occupying/controlling them, continually taking more land from them isn't working.  

 

I have provided the figure for Palestinian deaths and casualties since 2005 until 2023.

120,000 compared to nearly 6,000 Isreali deaths and casualties.

I mourn them all, however maybe if Isreal wasn't occupying the West Bank and east Jerusalem, and blockading Gaza there would be, at the very least far less deaths and casualties. 

 

Music brings people together so I will post this song 

One of the first punk bands I used to listen to back in the 70's

 

 

 

 

Do these people of Gaza even comprehend what democracy is? We have to try and look at things as they are through their lens. Put yourself in their shoes. Fo you really think they see the world as we do? 

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Alflives said:

World Caliphate. Not too sure how you interpret that? Hamas is evil. They must be eliminated. 

 

Nowhere in their doctrine do I see a World Caliphate mentioned.

 

https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/doctrine-hamas

 

And while I disagree with most of it, there are some surprising things in regards to women and other beliefs they profess to hold 

 

One stands out 

 

Article 31 

 

" Under the wing of Islam, it's possible for the followers of three religions - Islam Christianity and Judaism - to coexist in peace and quiet with each other. "

 

It does go one to qualify that this has to be under the wing of Islam.

However put that into context how Isreali/ Palestinian Muslim's have to live under the wing of Judaism in Israel. 

 

I believe you are confusing Hamas' with ISIS Alf.

 

It was ISIS that wanted/wants a world caliphate.

 

And before people confuse this post as supporting Hamas', I condemn them.

 

I am refuting Alfs claim, with evidence, read their doctrine I have provided, that Hamas' wants a World Caliphate.

 

[Ilunga]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Do these people of Gaza even comprehend what democracy is? We have to try and look at things as they are through their lens. Put yourself in their shoes. Fo you really think they see the world as we do? 

 

Exactly Alf, put yourself in their shoes.

 

Tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians have been killed.

Over 1.1 million people are suffering from catastrophic hunger, with 300,000 of them facing famine.

Their " country " has basically been destroyed.

 

Put yourself in their shoes Alf. 

 

And yes Alf, I believe most people, in most of the places of the world, think like I do.

 

They want a safe place to raise their kids, food on the table, and access to a good education.

The most basic of human rights.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Exactly Alf, put yourself in their shoes.

 

Tens of thousands of innocent Palestinian civilians have been killed.

Over 1.1 million people are suffering from catastrophic hunger, with 300,000 of them facing famine.

Their " country " has basically been destroyed.

 

Put yourself in their shoes Alf. 

 

And yes Alf, I believe most people, in most of the places of the world, think like I do.

 

They want a safe place to raise their kids, food on the table, and access to a good education.

The most basic of human rights.

 

 

 

Yup. The people of Gaza are so programmed to hate they see only death as a means to salvation. Very sad. “They shoot horses, don’t they?”

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

some folks have a strong desire to be part of a movement, be part of something changing the world for the good. That can be harnessed by some bad actors. 

 

No one likes what the IDF has done, they've gone too far in many instances. We also know if the IDF puts down its guns, Hamas will kill every Jew in Israel. 

 

Nothing is good about this, but I do know that Israel is a democracy that can shed itself of the right wing psycho's and thats where the ultimate chance for peace lies, imo anyway. 

 

 

Name one person who has supported Hamas in this thread that is still posting.

 

I know I have condemned them countless times, and I believe others who have posted in support of the Palestinian people have condemned Hamas as well.

 

It seems to me that people conflate support for the Palestinian people, with support for Hamas'.

Just like they conflate criticism of the Isreali government and the IDF's actions in the occupied territories and Gaza, with anti semitism.

 

No one is asking to Israel to " put their guns down ", though I wish both the Palestinians and the Isrealis would.

I wish every one would lay their weapons down.

 

Lyrics from the Bad Religion song, Sorrow, I posted 

 

" When all the soldiers lay their weapons down 

When all the kings and the Queens relinquish their crowns 

Or when the only true messiah rescues us from ourselves "

 

I want them to stop killing civilians, especially women and children.

And allow humanitarian aid to be delivered to the Palestinian people. 

 

In regards to the meaning behind the song Sorrow, it's Bad Religion take on the story of Job in the bible and to use Brett's words 

" That's not God, that's religion. That's an  example of how detestable religion is.

 

When asked what the line 

" When the only true messiah comes to save us from ourselves " 

 

He states 

 

" That it means we are our own messiah and the meaning of life comes from ourselves "

https://www.thebrpage.net/theanswer/?article=sorrow 

 

Seems very pertinent in regards to this thread.

 

Here it is again, such a powerful song.

 

I long for the day when we, as a species, don't have to lament about the " sorrow " in this world 

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Name one person who has supported Hamas in this thread that is still posting.

 

I know I have condemned them countless times, and I believe others who have posted in support of the Palestinian people have condemned Hamas as well.

 

It seems to me that people conflate support for the Palestinian people, with support for Hamas'.

Just like they conflate criticism of the Isreali government and the IDF's actions in the occupied territories and Gaza, with anti semitism.

 

No one is asking to Israel to " put their guns down ", though I wish both the Palestinians and the Isrealis would.

I wish every one would lay their weapons down.

 

Lyrics from the Bad Religion song, Sorrow, I posted 

 

" When all the soldiers lay their weapons down 

When all the kings and the Queens relinquish their crowns 

Or when the only true messiah rescues us from ourselves "

 

I want them to stop killing civilians, especially women and children.

And allow humanitarian aid to be delivered to the Palestinian people. 

 

In regards to the meaning behind the song Sorrow, it's Bad Religion take on the story of Job in the bible and to use Brett's words 

" That's not God, that's religion. That's an  example of how detestable religion is.

 

When asked what the line 

" When the only true messiah comes to save us from ourselves " 

 

He states 

 

" That it means we are our own messiah and the meaning of life comes from ourselves "

https://www.thebrpage.net/theanswer/?article=sorrow 

 

Seems very pertinent in regards to this thread.

 

Here it is again, such a powerful song.

 

I long for the day when we, as a species, don't have to lament about the " sorrow " in this world 

 

 

 

 

Is what’s happening Gaza about us or them? 

[Ilunga]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Is what’s happening Gaza about us or them? 

 

It affects us all Alf in one way or another.

 

Primarily the Palestinians and the Isrealis are the real " victim's ". 

 

You see Alf, when you think as I do, that we are all one people, sharing this planet together.

That you have compassion and empathy for those people you share this planet with.

Then the suffering of others " hurts " you.

 

 

 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

It affects us all Alf in one way or another.

 

Primarily the Palestinians and the Isrealis are the real " victim's ". 

 

You see Alf, when you think as I do, that we are all one people, sharing this planet together.

That you have compassion and empathy for those people you share this planet with.

Then the suffering of others " hurts " you.

 

 

 

Unfortunately the Hamas bastards don’t think as you. They are evil that must be destroyed. If they thought as you the IDF wouldn’t need to eradicate them, like vermin.,

[Ilunga]

34 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Yup. The people of Gaza are so programmed to hate they see only death as a means to salvation. Very sad. “They shoot horses, don’t they?”

 

Source for the people of Gaza are programmed to hate please

 

That's such a Bullshit statement. 

 

" They shoot horses, don't they " 

 

Are you really serious ?

They are starving Alf.

They are killing them to survive.

 

Unlike people in your country.

 

https://www.hsi.org/news-resources/canada_horse_slaughter/

 

" With nearly 72,000 horses slaughtered in 2013 alone, Canada's horse slaughter industry is among the largest in the world, and a shameful betrayal of our loyal companions. 

 

Horses are slaughtered in Canada primarily to provide horsemeat to European and Asian countries. Horses are brought to slaughter in every possible condition, old, young, sick, healthy, injured and even pregnant. "

 

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Unfortunately the Hamas bastards don’t think as you. They are evil that must be destroyed. If they thought as you the IDF wouldn’t need to eradicate them, like vermin.,

 

Great article about people like you, and regimes that use terms like vermin to dehumanize people.

 

 

" Less Than Human': The Psychology of Cruelty" 

 

https://www.npr.org/2011/03/29/134956180/criminals-see-their-victims-as-less-than-human

 

" During the Holocaust the Nazi's referred to the Jews as rats. Hutus involved in the Rwanda genocide called Tutsis cockroaches. Slave owners throughout history considered slaves less sub human animals. In Less Than Human David Livingstone Smith argues that's it's important to define and describe dehumanisation, because it's what opens the door for cruelty and genocide.

 

" We all know, despite what we see in the movies", Smith tells NPR's Neal Conan, "that it's very difficult, psychologically, to kill another human being up close and in cold blood or to inflict attrocities on them ". So when it does happen it can be very helpful to understand what it is that allows human beings " to overcome the very deep and natural inhibitions they have against treating other people like game animals or vermin or dangerous predators. "

 

 

[Ilunga]

30 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Unfortunately the Hamas bastards don’t think as you. They are evil that must be destroyed. If they thought as you the IDF wouldn’t need to eradicate them, like vermin.,

 

And thinking like the IDF Alf ?

 

The US is on the brink placing unprecedented sanctions an IDF unit made up of religious nutjobs that have committed human rights violations.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/radionational-breakfast/idf-unit-sanctions/10375605

 

Don't you bag out religious nutjobs Alf ?

[testycal]

The day Hamas changes its Charter that mandates the destruction of the "Zionist Regime" in Israel, lays down its weapons and releases all hostages and bodies without requiring release of their own criminals sitting in Israeli jails who are there because they have committed crimes (for the most part, as there are never absolutes in life), we can possibly begin a peace dialogue....adding....Westerners have little understanding of how little Arab and Muslim cultures value life...regardless of what they say...Hamas is cold blooded....they treat their own people without regard and Jews with less than no regard....they are taught not only to hate but a dead Jew is a good Jew...it really is that basic with them....I have no regard for these Arabs but I do not wish them death...that is the difference between civilized and non civilized cultures.....they represent basic tribal society of hundreds of years ago but today with cell phones, guns and internet and designer clothes (albeit knock offs) but still tribal at their core...this is the reality

Edited April 28 by testycal

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Source for the people of Gaza are programmed to hate please

 

That's such a Bullshit statement. 

 

" They shoot horses, don't they " 

 

Are you really serious ?

They are starving Alf.

They are killing them to survive.

 

Unlike people in your country.

 

https://www.hsi.org/news-resources/canada_horse_slaughter/

 

" With nearly 72,000 horses slaughtered in 2013 alone, Canada's horse slaughter industry is among the largest in the world, and a shameful betrayal of our loyal companions. 

 

Horses are slaughtered in Canada primarily to provide horsemeat to European and Asian countries. Horses are brought to slaughter in every possible condition, old, young, sick, healthy, injured and even pregnant. "

 

That’s not what “they shoot horses” alludes to. 
Hamas people are so ill (because if their programmed hatred) they are beyond fixing. It’s better for them to be put down. It will end their suffering. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

So?

 

Economics is an important discussion with war appearing suddenly in so many parts of the World.  Including a blooming issue in Venezuela.  America & Canada are self sufficient in energy and largely mineral resources as a pair. Hydro and water quickly replacing oil in its various forms value wise. Water, globally less available than food & its key indicator of being able to create food. Europe and East Asia rely on Super Tankers & pipelines primarily from the Middle East and Russia. The Saudi's, Canada and Venezuela have the largest oil reserves world wide.

 

Iran, on a short term basis, and Russia, benefit from increased oil pressure from conflict.  A single US aircraft carrier on its own, is powerful enough to take on any air force in the world, save perhaps Russia and China, sitting in the Persian Gulf. 

 

I am not sure what the Houthis / Iran, are asking for?  Almost everything worth money in their nations is supported by a world economy driven by oil.  Global warming is calling on the world to further distance itself from this addiction. Europe doing it faster than anyone having had Putin throw it in their face vis a vie Ukraine. That carrier can create an economic bubble that suddenly restricts the Middle East & Russia from sourcing its water, food, and income by the channels currently in place.

 

Yet settlers in the West Bank rampage, and terrorists launch missiles.  It seems strange that its not easier to solve..

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/jewish-us-presidential-candidate-jill-stein-arrested-at-anti-israel-protest/ar-AA1nOHZH?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d8b127962f2142118e59a60866016c61&ei=24

US presidential candidate Dr. Jill Stein was arrested Saturday at a pro-Palestinian protest at Washington University (WashU) in St. Louis, Stein's X account said, sharing a video of her arrest.

Stein is shown at the protest being taken away by police. According to a report in The Telegraph, the demonstration was meant to protest the university's ties with Boeing, which has sold military equipment to Israel, and to call for the boycott of Israeli academia.

"We're going to stand here in line with the students who are standing up for democracy, standing up for human rights, standing up to end genocide," she said in a video shared prior to her arrest.

Also arrested were Stein's campaign manager, Jason Call, and deputy campaign manager, Kelly Merril-Cayer.

Stein's X account also claimed that she and others had attempted to de-escalate the situation with police before they began arresting protesters at the scene. Video footage showed what Stein's X account claims was police use of force against her and others.

--------------------------------------------------------------

More at link

----------------------------------

 

bit by bit, people wake up to the fact that Israel is doing significant harm.

Edited April 28 by Gurn

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/world/jewish-us-presidential-candidate-jill-stein-arrested-at-anti-israel-protest/ar-AA1nOHZH?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=d8b127962f2142118e59a60866016c61&ei=24

US presidential candidate Dr. Jill Stein was arrested Saturday at a pro-Palestinian protest at Washington University (WashU) in St. Louis, Stein's X account said, sharing a video of her arrest.

Stein is shown at the protest being taken away by police. According to a report in The Telegraph, the demonstration was meant to protest the university's ties with Boeing, which has sold military equipment to Israel, and to call for the boycott of Israeli academia.

"We're going to stand here in line with the students who are standing up for democracy, standing up for human rights, standing up to end genocide," she said in a video shared prior to her arrest.

Also arrested were Stein's campaign manager, Jason Call, and deputy campaign manager, Kelly Merril-Cayer.

Stein's X account also claimed that she and others had attempted to de-escalate the situation with police before they began arresting protesters at the scene. Video footage showed what Stein's X account claims was police use of force against her and others.

--------------------------------------------------------------

More at link

----------------------------------

 

bit by bit, people wake up to the fact that Israel is doing significant harm.

Stupid woman. Just trying to catch the wave of what’s popular now. Clearly doesn’t think long term.

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

Stupid woman. Just trying to catch the wave of what’s popular now. Clearly doesn’t think long term.

 

I used to work at a place called the House of Stein. Useless information... 

[Gurn]

In 1973, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College, where she studied psychology, sociology, and anthropology.^[6] She then attended Harvard Medical School and graduated in 1979.^[6] Stein practiced internal medicine for 25 years^[7] at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Simmons College Health Center, and Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, which are all located in the Boston area. She also served as an instructor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.^[8]

^{--------------------}

 

^{Nah- she's a stupid woman, according to some dude on da web.}

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Gurn said:

In 1973, Stein graduated magna cum laude from Harvard College, where she studied psychology, sociology, and anthropology.^[6] She then attended Harvard Medical School and graduated in 1979.^[6] Stein practiced internal medicine for 25 years^[7] at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center, Simmons College Health Center, and Harvard Pilgrim Health Care, which are all located in the Boston area. She also served as an instructor of medicine at Harvard Medical School.^[8]

^{--------------------}

 

^{Nah- she's a stupid woman, according to some dude on da web.}

 

You are mixing up education and intelligence. After all, there are plenty of academics supporting Trump…

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

You are mixing up education and intelligence. After all, there are plenty of academics supporting Trump…

And this lady is living safely tucked away in her fancy college town US house. It’s interesting how people living these comfortable and safe lives here seem to be experts on what’s happening in Israel and Gaza. Maybe these “experts” should go live a life they seem to be experts on? 

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And this lady is living safely tucked away in her fancy college town US house. It’s interesting how people living these comfortable and safe lives here seem to be experts on what’s happening in Israel and Gaza. Maybe these “experts” should go live a life they seem to be experts on? 

 

I had a colleague who talked about people being the angriest when the stakes were lowest. 

[Ilunga]

On 4/28/2024 at 9:06 PM, testycal said:

The day Hamas changes its Charter that mandates the destruction of the "Zionist Regime" in Israel, lays down its weapons and releases all hostages and bodies without requiring release of their own criminals sitting in Israeli jails who are there because they have committed crimes (for the most part, as there are never absolutes in life), we can possibly begin a peace dialogue....adding....Westerners have little understanding of how little Arab and Muslim cultures value life...regardless of what they say...Hamas is cold blooded....they treat their own people without regard and Jews with less than no regard....they are taught not only to hate but a dead Jew is a good Jew...it really is that basic with them....I have no regard for these Arabs but I do not wish them death...that is the difference between civilized and non civilized cultures.....they represent basic tribal society of hundreds of years ago but today with cell phones, guns and internet and designer clothes (albeit knock offs) but still tribal at their core...this is the reality

 

A nice dose of Islamaphobia.

 

Muslim cultures do not value life ?

 

Here in Aus our closest neighbour, Indonesia, is the fourth largest country on this planet in regards to population.

It is a Muslim country.

It has one of the lowest murder rates in the World.

 

I went out with a beautiful Indonesian woman for a few years.

Highly intelligent, masters degree in languages.

 

And for your information the mass killings in Indonesia in 1965 - 66, described by some as Politicide, was a purge by the Suharto government of communists.

 

And check out the perpetrators

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_mass_killings_of_1965–66

 

Indonesian army  and death squads supported by, the United States, the United Kingdom and other western governments.

 

 

 

Here is yet another Isreali voice that does not promote this kind of BS. 

 

 

https://www.npr.org/2024/04/12/1244265663/why-israel-is-losing-the-war-of-global-public-opinion-over-its-tactics-in-gaza

 

 

 

And Ex head of the Shin Bet Ami Aylon. 

 

 

Aylon:

" The major mistake our leaders did on the on the second or third day after the October 7, our cabinet ministers decided not to discuss the day after. Once we do not know how to describe the day after, we do not have any concept of victory, you know, war is only a means to achieve a better political reality. This is the definition of victory. Our leaders did not understand that when we fight a war against a Terror - ideological, theological, radical terror organisation we are fighting in two dimensions. One is the battlefield but in order to defeat Hamas, we have to win the war of ideas. And we cannot do it with military power. The only way to do it is create or present a better idea.

 

 

Can that still happen ?

 

Aylon 

Of course, the first question we have to ask is why is Hamas fighting. My answer is very, very simple. They see themselves as a people. We do not recognise them as a people who deserve a self determination and a state alongside Israel, but what Biden is telling us now - and I believe that he is totally right - that we have to launch again the negotiation in order to create hope among Palestinians. 

 

 

Can I ask, based on your experience 

as the former director of the Israeli security agency, did the scale of the October 7 attack surprise you ?

 

Aylon 

No, it did not surprise me, because 50 years earlier, on the 6 of October, the October war started, and we lost 2000 and almost 700 people. After what we learned after Yom Kippur is that our security doctrine should be based on, yes, a major and very powerful military organisation, IDF, but in addition we have to use diplomacy and this is something we forgot. I think that most Israelis do not understand that victory for Israel is to see, on the other side of the border, a Palestinian state, because once they will have a state, they will have something to lose, and if I learn something in the Shin Bet, the most dangerous enemy is an enemy that has nothing to lose. This is exactly what we saw on 7 of October.

 

 

The leader of the democrats in the United States, Chuck Schumer, said recently that, you know, be feels that Netanyahu needs to step down, that a new government needs to take place in order to achieve these results. Do you agree with that ?

 

Aylon 

I totally agree. I think that Netanyahu is a great leader, but this is a leader who leads his people to a dead end. He is leading us to the end of Zionism. If we shall follow Netanyahu, we shall go on, you know, building settlements, and we shall face an ongoing war, that nobody, nobody knows will end. The only way for us, first of all, to defeat Hamas, because for Hamas, it's a nightmare - this is the end of the dream of Greater Palestine, we have to present a better future in which most Palestinians believe. 

 

Do you have hope that a better day will be possible ?

 

Aylon 

Yes, I have hope, because I was the deputy, then the commander of the Navy and, later, the director of the Israeli Shin Bet. I was sitting with Palestinians who are in our jails. We saw them as terrorists, but they became my friends, you know Jibril Rajoub and Mohammad Dahlan - and we cooperated. And they told me everyday, we are doing everything in order to stop terror, Jewish terror, Palestinian terror, just because we believe that on the end of the road, we shall see, we shall have our freedom, our state alongside Israel. The moment that our people will not believe, forget about us. And if you ask me what happened, when the diplomacy collapsed, this is exactly what happened. They lost hope, and when they do not have hope, we shall not have security. "

 

@Bob Long 

 

Are these not the ideas I promote ?

Edited April 29 by Ilunga

[Babych]

23 hours ago, testycal said:

The day Hamas changes its Charter that mandates the destruction of the "Zionist Regime" in Israel, lays down its weapons and releases all hostages and bodies without requiring release of their own criminals sitting in Israeli jails who are there because they have committed crimes (for the most part, as there are never absolutes in life), we can possibly begin a peace dialogue....adding....Westerners have little understanding of how little Arab and Muslim cultures value life...regardless of what they say...Hamas is cold blooded....they treat their own people without regard and Jews with less than no regard....they are taught not only to hate but a dead Jew is a good Jew...it really is that basic with them....I have no regard for these Arabs but I do not wish them death...that is the difference between civilized and non civilized cultures.....they represent basic tribal society of hundreds of years ago but today with cell phones, guns and internet and designer clothes (albeit knock offs) but still tribal at their core...this is the reality

I think maybe you don’t know what you’re talking about.
 

I’ve been living in the UAE for about a year and I can tell you that this is 100% not true of the people here. In fact, this country is perhaps the safest country on earth. Upon reflection, one might argue that westerners have little regard for life, given the amount of violence they like to visit upon each other.

See what I did there? Painting people with broad strokes is rarely a good look.