Hamas attacking Israel

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are several other pieces of information that make sense but unsubstantiated at the moment - October 7th wasn't selected randomly. It's a combination of 2 dates - 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur war and guess whose birthday?

Someone with a strange obsession with committing atrocities on culturally significant dates.

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

Where? Right here:

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672

Protesters also criticized Hamas for deducting a roughly $15 fee from monthly $100 stipends given to Gaza’s poorest families by the wealthy Gulf state of Qatar.

 

Looks like Hamas are also forcibly trying to starve their own people. 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Protesters also criticized Hamas for deducting a roughly $15 fee from monthly $100 stipends given to Gaza’s poorest families by the wealthy Gulf state of Qatar.

 

Looks like Hamas are also forcibly trying to starve their own people. 

Basically running a mafia protection racket on an entire population.

[RomanPer]

4 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Someone with a strange obsession with committing atrocities on culturally significant dates.

 

Putin

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Elias Pettersson said:

Protesters also criticized Hamas for deducting a roughly $15 fee from monthly $100 stipends given to Gaza’s poorest families by the wealthy Gulf state of Qatar.

 

Looks like Hamas are also forcibly trying to starve their own people. 

Hamas followed a remarkably similar arc to the FARC in Columbia 

 

both gained initial popularity and influence due to providing social services where people had been neglected 

 

both quickly turned to thuggery and terrorism when it became more profitable to do so (getting paid by foreign governments is a hell of a lot better than trying to raise donations from poor farmers)

 

hamas is nothing new to this world - it will be destroyed, and a new version will pop up again to fill the void 

[King Heffy]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

Putin

Yup, that's who I was implying.  

[Elias Pettersson]

12 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are several other pieces of information that make sense but unsubstantiated at the moment - October 7th wasn't selected randomly. It's a combination of 2 dates - 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur war and guess whose birthday?

Wow, that’s fucked up. Too much of a coincidence for me. What are the odds Hams attacks Israel on Putin’s birthday?   

 

Edited October 12, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[The Lock]

21 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Oh FFS! This is like living through the cold war. Blame everything on Russia. 

 

The problem with this way of thinking is that there's actual motives for Russia. Russia wants badly for the rest of the world to shift eyes away from Ukraine. Also, think about Russia's involvement in the region: Armenia, Syria, Iran, etc. It would only make sense that Palestine would make that list as Israel a US friend. And this doesn't even go into the evidence gradually building up about it.

 

I'd even go further and argue that that cold war you mention... it never fully went away. It might have left a bit in the 90's, but you just have to look at how Putin's tried to manipulate so many neighboring countries (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, the counties I mentioned earlier, etc) to see the same sort of intelligence operations being performed against the west by Russia. Conversely, we're likely to have intelligence operations against Russia as well in modern times.

[Darius]

I just saw a Video produced by Hamas themselves ( I’m assuming this) that showed them digging out water pipes from the ground - infrastructure that was basically donated for humanitarian purposes- so that the can construct missiles out of the cylinders ( before this latest conflict started)  How much money, and how many materials, have they stolen from their own people to carry out their goals? 

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Basically running a mafia protection racket on an entire population.

Yes that’s exactly what the Gambino family in New York did for decades. 

[King Heffy]

7 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

The problem with this way of thinking is that there's actual motives for Russia. Russia wants badly for the rest of the world to shift eyes away from Ukraine. Also, think about Russia's involvement in the region: Armenia, Syria, Iran, etc. It would only make sense that Palestine would make that list as Israel a US friend. And this doesn't even go into the evidence gradually building up about it.

 

I'd even go further and argue that that cold war you mention... it never fully went away. It might have left a bit in the 90's, but you just have to look at how Putin's tried to manipulate so many neighboring countries (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, the counties I mentioned earlier, etc) to see the same sort of intelligence operations being performed against the west by Russia. Conversely, we're likely to have intelligence operations against Russia as well in modern times.

Not too mention repeated threats to nuke us over the past couple of years.  

[eeeeeeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Not too mention repeated threats to nuke us over the past couple of years.  

only one country has ever used a nuclear weapon in history and it ain’t Russia 

[moosehead]

The comprehensive report, Israel’s Apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime against Humanity, sets out how massive seizures of Palestinian land and property, unlawful killings, forcible transfer, drastic movement restrictions, and the denial of nationality and citizenship to Palestinians are all components of a system which amounts to apartheid under international law.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

[eeeeeeeeergh]

12 minutes ago, Darius said:

I just saw a Video produced by Hamas themselves ( I’m assuming this) that showed them digging out water pipes from the ground - infrastructure that was basically donated for humanitarian purposes- so that the can construct missiles out of the cylinders ( before this latest conflict started)  How much money, and how many materials, have they stolen from their own people to carry out their goals? 

Hamas has absolutely been stealing from its people for personal enrichment and to finance terrorist activity 

 

but this analysis also ignores why people in gaza are stateless and without resources to begin with 

 

Israeli settlers drove these people out of their villages in the 1940s with guns and bombs, shoving them into an ever shrinking space. At the same time, to this day, Israel has continued to build settlements across the West Bank, with IDF military support to throw Palestinians out of their homes. 
 

Hamas didn’t rob these people of everything they had, Israel did that. Hamas is looting the corpse. 

Just now, moosehead said:

The comprehensive report, Israel’s Apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime against Humanity, sets out how massive seizures of Palestinian land and property, unlawful killings, forcible transfer, drastic movement restrictions, and the denial of nationality and citizenship to Palestinians are all components of a system which amounts to apartheid under international law.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

@Alflives @King Heffy please read. 

[moosehead]

Above article part 2

 

For example, Palestinian citizens of Israel are denied a nationality, establishing a legal differentiation from Jewish Israelis. In the West Bank and Gaza, where Israel has controlled the population registry since 1967, Palestinians have no citizenship and most are considered stateless, requiring ID cards from the Israeli military to live and work in the territories.

 

Palestinian refugees and their descendants, who were displaced in the 1947-49 and 1967 conflicts, continue to be denied the right to return to their former places of residence. Israel’s exclusion of refugees is a flagrant violation of international law which has left millions in a perpetual limbo of forced displacement.

 

Palestinians in annexed East Jerusalem are granted permanent residence instead of citizenship – though this status is permanent in name only. Since 1967, more than 14,000 Palestinians have had their residency revoked at the discretion of the Ministry of the Interior, resulting in their forcible transfer outside the city.

[Ryan Strome]

40 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

They certainly have something to gain by diverting Western attention towards Israel.  They also gave a history of meddling in conflicts in Africa. Not sure why you'd doubt that they'd stoop to this level considering their barbaric regime.

 

36 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I guess the guys in the video just studied in russia and learned the language and then randomly decided in the high pressure situation to use that language. Of course, makes perfect sense  

 

34 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I honestly had my suspicions even before you posted yours, but had no source other than my own guess.  Russia really wants to avoid Israel deciding to strike the Iranian drone factories.

 

32 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are several other pieces of information that make sense but unsubstantiated at the moment - October 7th wasn't selected randomly. It's a combination of 2 dates - 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur war and guess whose birthday?

But yet not a word from the Israeli government about it. Don't you think it would be wise of them to point out this evidence? 

 

But yes, I'm sure ones suspicion coupled with a YouTube video should be compelling enough.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

2 minutes ago, moosehead said:

The comprehensive report, Israel’s Apartheid against Palestinians: Cruel System of Domination and Crime against Humanity, sets out how massive seizures of Palestinian land and property, unlawful killings, forcible transfer, drastic movement restrictions, and the denial of nationality and citizenship to Palestinians are all components of a system which amounts to apartheid under international law.

 

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/

my most controversial take that I get cancelled for every time I say it is that the US and her Allies have been responsible for more death, destruction, and evil in foreign countries across the board since 1945 than the countries everyone’s so scared of (Russia China Iran) 

 

Chinas foreign policy has been the most non-expansionist of any world power in centuries 

 

meanwhile the US kills millions of civilians in foreign countries and we worry about chinas foreign policy lol 

 

Amazing how when were not the ones having atrocities committed against us, it’s pretty easy to turn a blind eye to our governments committing them against others 

[Ryan Strome]

21 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

The problem with this way of thinking is that there's actual motives for Russia. Russia wants badly for the rest of the world to shift eyes away from Ukraine. Also, think about Russia's involvement in the region: Armenia, Syria, Iran, etc. It would only make sense that Palestine would make that list as Israel a US friend. And this doesn't even go into the evidence gradually building up about it.

 

I'd even go further and argue that that cold war you mention... it never fully went away. It might have left a bit in the 90's, but you just have to look at how Putin's tried to manipulate so many neighboring countries (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, the counties I mentioned earlier, etc) to see the same sort of intelligence operations being performed against the west by Russia. Conversely, we're likely to have intelligence operations against Russia as well in modern times.

I'm not going to have this argument, especially in this thread. I would think that israeli or American intelligence would love to pounce on this if it were there. Not only that, when you mentioned Israel is America's friend, they are also Russia's friend. So again I'm not having this conversation in this thread cuz I get it. Everything is russia's fault. They are such a powerful nation and control everything lol

 

[CBH1926]

16 minutes ago, Darius said:

I just saw a Video produced by Hamas themselves ( I’m assuming this) that showed them digging out water pipes from the ground - infrastructure that was basically donated for humanitarian purposes- so that the can construct missiles out of the cylinders ( before this latest conflict started)  How much money, and how many materials, have they stolen from their own people to carry out their goals? 

Hamas could give two shits about Palestinians, for them more suffering of their own people leads to greater support. Not to mention religious fanaticism that encourages them to die. It’s like a death cult.

 

While back there was a video of two ISIS members basically doing paper rock scissors and the winner gets to be a suicide bomber. I will never forget how happy the “winner” looked and how disappointed the other guy was. 

[King Heffy]

10 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

only one country has ever used a nuclear weapon in history and it ain’t Russia 

I'm more than willing to debate the use of nukes in WWII but not in this thread.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

1 minute ago, King Heffy said:

I'm more than willing to debate the use of nukes in WWII but not in this thread.

Me too, in another thread is fine, but that’s not my point. my point is to say that only one country has used them, and that country wasn’t even on the brink of annihilation when it did.
 

Meanwhile, every other nuclear country has avoided the use, even at a point where their state was dismantled (the Soviet Union/Russia).
 

So we should really be much more afraid of the US using a nuke than Russia, which was in exactly the situation you’d expect a nuke to be used, when its state collapsed. 

[Darius]

4 minutes ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

Hamas has absolutely been stealing from its people for personal enrichment and to finance terrorist activity 

 

but this analysis also ignores why people in gaza are stateless and without resources to begin with 

 

Israeli settlers drove these people out of their villages in the 1940s with guns and bombs, shoving them into an ever shrinking space. At the same time, to this day, Israel has continued to build settlements across the West Bank, with IDF military support to throw Palestinians out of their homes. 
 

Hamas didn’t rob these people of everything they had, Israel did that. Hamas is looting the corpse. 

@Alflives @King Heffy please read. 

i have no doubt this has happened as it happened in numerous other places in the region post WW1

 

imho Hamas and the state sponsors do not want peace - its in their “constitution” to wipe out Israel.  How, in your opinion, do the Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas?  This is a mandatory prerequisite to move forward imho. 

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Darius said:

i have no doubt this has happened as it happened in numerous other places in the region post WW1

 

imho Hamas and the state sponsors do not want peace - its in their “constitution” to wipe out Israel.  How, in your opinion, do the Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas?  This is a mandatory prerequisite to move forward imho. 

Maybe they need liberation from an Arab Nation like say Egypt? I mean it's never going to work if the Israelis try to liberate Palestine they hate the Jewish people.

[Darius]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

Maybe they need liberation from an Arab Nation like say Egypt? I mean it's never going to work if the Israelis try to liberate Palestine they hate the Jewish people.

I’ve thought about the Egyptian angle in all this. Haven’t they basically locked in the Palestinians on their side of the Gaza border? 

[eeeeeeeeergh]

Just now, Darius said:

i have no doubt this has happened as it happened in numerous other places in the region post WW1

 

imho Hamas and the state sponsors do not want peace - its in their “constitution” to wipe out Israel.  How, in your opinion, do the Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas?  This is a mandatory prerequisite to move forward imho. 

Palestinians can’t rid themselves of Hamas as they are effectivrly prisoners. They can’t arm themselves, or import food or building materials. 
 

the only way to get rid of Hamas would be for Israel to say: if you  Palestinian citizens get rid of Hamas, we will lift the blockade and reverse settlement building in the West Bank, and if you personally hand over a confirmed Hamas terrorist, we’ll discuss how you can come home if you were forced out of your town at gunpoint by settlers. Also here’s an AR-15, get to work.