Hamas attacking Israel

[RomanPer]

9 hours ago, StrayDog said:

You pull this statement a lot about America. I find it amusing coming from someone growing non-native plants on stolen land in Australia. Yes, I know, your family legally purchased it. By that logic pretty much every American (or Canadian for that matter) are not living on stolen land since it was bought in the recent past or currently. Or you can accept the fact that purchasing something that was stolen doesn't make it less stolen; it just means you, personally, didn't steal it. I can certainly admit that I live on land that was stolen by people who were here before my ancestors and then sold it to them. 

The rest of your response is your usual condescending bashing with a side of holier-than-thou attitude, so I won't bother replying to it.

But I'm digressing too much from the thread so I'll leave off this line of conversation.

 

And I will also add to it Israel - vast majority of land/properties now being claimed as “stolen by Jews” were in fact legally purchased from the previous owners. But that doesn’t fit into anti-Israeli narratives, so it’s usually being ignored by our Australian friend.

[Ilunga]

10 hours ago, Sabrefan1 said:

 

That's an odd spin on a technically lawful action by the NYPD.  They could have done this shortly after the protests started when the Jewish students were being abused.

 

 

When they went in, this was no longer the case with those students, but had been earlier in the protest.  The concern was that with these new actions, the situation would flare up and get worse again.

 

 

That was at CCNY a couple miles to the north, not Columbia.  The flag thing was not the impetus to the response.  They were still in the early stages compared to Columbia.  The thing about CCNY is that it's a publicly owned school on public property.  It's not private like Columbia is.

 

CCNY students had been told many times that they were trespassing, were told to leave, but they were hellbent on getting attention by forcing the police to remove them and that's what happened. 

 

 

Kent State was 54 years ago.  The people responsible for it are mostly dead now.  Even the students that were there are in their mid 70's.

 

 

For me, it would have been foolish for those police not to have been in their riot gear.  That truck that you saw was just an armored box truck with a built in ramp that makes it so the police don't have to break down doors to get into a building.

 

 

If you read what I wrote, I blamed mostly my generation (gen X) for the sh*t job that we've collectively done raising Generation Z.  They are unprepared for the realities that life is bringing them.  With the state of the country that we're leaving them, it's only going to get crappier and harder and more challenging.

 

 

Here in the US, the only real complaints about my generation growing up was our love of hard rock and pop music during the 80's (rap was still mostly in black neighborhoods then).  That and they weren't thrilled with our attitude of apathy towards many things.

 

Other than that the baby boomers, silent, and WW2 generations really didn't have much to say about us. 

 

 

 

To finish off the post, the one thing that I didn't like was the NYPD keeping the press from doing their jobs while they were locking down the area.  I get locking an area down, but the press is afforded rights that need to be observed.

 

As I stated, it seems incomprehensible to an Australian, the need for heavily armed police to enter an educational institution, especially when the students are unarmed and essentially peaceful. 

 

Dead or not, your country has a history of heavily armed people entering educational institutions, and in that instance, killing unarmed students.

The history of heavily armed intervention continues to this very day.

 

 

Apologies for not being more specific, in regards to the Columbia University and CCNY 

 

Back in 1968 there were 700 arrests at Columbia University in relation to Vietnam war priests.

And the 282 arrests made yesterday, were made at both Columbia University and CCNY.

To be even more specific, 109 arrests at Columbia University.

173 arrests at CCNY.

 

My point was still valid about the history of arresting student protesters at Colombia University. 

 

Mate, I have heard it all my life.

The generation blame game.

 

" Young people these days "

 

That was basically the theme of your statement

 

" The younger people in my generation as well as the older millianials did a poor job in too many aspects in raising gen Z'ers as a whole in the US. " 

 

And there you go again 

" They are unprepared for the realities that life is bringing them "

 

Again echoing sentiments I have heard each generation say about the next.

 

And you must be forgetting about the criticism the " hippies " and people in the sixties received. 

And the reaction to young people protesting for civil rights and against the Vietnam war in the 60's, from the generation that raised them.

 

Those " long hairs " John was singing about.

 

An article about the generation blame game

 

https://theconversation.com/why-we-keep-playing-the-generation-blame-game-and-why-we-need-to-stop-82219

 

 

 

" The real problem is that ordinary folk of all generations are being conned - and coached to blame it on each other. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As I stated, it seems incomprehensible to an Australian, the need for heavily armed police to enter an educational institution, especially when the students are unarmed and essentially peaceful. 

 

Dead or not, your country has a history of heavily armed people entering educational institutions, and in that instance, killing unarmed students.

The history of heavily armed intervention continues to this very day.

 

 

Apologies for not being more specific, in regards to the Columbia University and CCNY 

 

Back in 1968 there were 700 arrests at Columbia University in relation to Vietnam war priests.

And the 282 arrests made yesterday, were made at both Columbia University and CCNY.

To be even more specific, 109 arrests at Columbia University.

173 arrests at CCNY.

 

My point was still valid about the history of arresting student protesters at Colombia University. 

 

Mate, I have heard it all my life.

The generation blame game.

 

" Young people these days "

 

That was basically the theme of your statement

 

" The younger people in my generation as well as the older millianials did a poor job in too many aspects in raising gen Z'ers as a whole in the US. " 

 

And there you go again 

" They are unprepared for the realities that life is bringing them "

 

Again echoing sentiments I have heard each generation say about the next.

 

And you must be forgetting about the criticism the " hippies " and people in the sixties received. 

And the reaction to young people protesting for civil rights and against the Vietnam war in the 60's, from the generation that raised them.

 

Those " long hairs " John was singing about.

 

An article about the generation blame game

 

https://theconversation.com/why-we-keep-playing-the-generation-blame-game-and-why-we-need-to-stop-82219

 

 

 

" The real problem is that ordinary folk of all generations are being conned - and coached to blame it on each other. 

 

 

 

Aus isn't an armed country, the US is. It's not all that hard to understand this response.

[Ilunga]

13 hours ago, StrayDog said:

You pull this statement a lot about America. I find it amusing coming from someone growing non-native plants on stolen land in Australia. Yes, I know, your family legally purchased it. By that logic pretty much every American (or Canadian for that matter) are not living on stolen land since it was bought in the recent past or currently. Or you can accept the fact that purchasing something that was stolen doesn't make it less stolen; it just means you, personally, didn't steal it. I can certainly admit that I live on land that was stolen by people who were here before my ancestors and then sold it to them. 

The rest of your response is your usual condescending bashing with a side of holier-than-thou attitude, so I won't bother replying to it.

But I'm digressing too much from the thread so I'll leave off this line of conversation.

 

 

What relevance do the plant's I grow have in relation to our discussion about your " blood drenched " flag.

And actually I grow a few plants that are native to Australia, Banksias, Persoonia, Wattles,  including one protea which is native to Australia,  the Waratah, which is the " state flower " of New South Wales. 

 

Back to the stolen land again.

 

I stated nothing about you stealing land.

You stated, something about a blood drenched flag, I stated it was drenched in the blood of the millions of first nations people that were slaughtered in your country. 

 

There were between 11,000 - 14,000 first nations people killed here in Australia when The British settled this country.

 

 

Your country 

 

https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/

 

" When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million native Americans living there.

By 1900 their estimated population was under 300,000. "

 

People talk about the holocaust, 6 million people killed which is horrific.

 

300,000 people left out of 10 million ?

 

What word describes that sort of killing.

Edited May 2 by Ilunga

[Alflives]

19 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

As I stated, it seems incomprehensible to an Australian, the need for heavily armed police to enter an educational institution, especially when the students are unarmed and essentially peaceful. 

 

Dead or not, your country has a history of heavily armed people entering educational institutions, and in that instance, killing unarmed students.

The history of heavily armed intervention continues to this very day.

 

 

Apologies for not being more specific, in regards to the Columbia University and CCNY 

 

Back in 1968 there were 700 arrests at Columbia University in relation to Vietnam war priests.

And the 282 arrests made yesterday, were made at both Columbia University and CCNY.

To be even more specific, 109 arrests at Columbia University.

173 arrests at CCNY.

 

My point was still valid about the history of arresting student protesters at Colombia University. 

 

Mate, I have heard it all my life.

The generation blame game.

 

" Young people these days "

 

That was basically the theme of your statement

 

" The younger people in my generation as well as the older millianials did a poor job in too many aspects in raising gen Z'ers as a whole in the US. " 

 

And there you go again 

" They are unprepared for the realities that life is bringing them "

 

Again echoing sentiments I have heard each generation say about the next.

 

And you must be forgetting about the criticism the " hippies " and people in the sixties received. 

And the reaction to young people protesting for civil rights and against the Vietnam war in the 60's, from the generation that raised them.

 

Those " long hairs " John was singing about.

 

An article about the generation blame game

 

https://theconversation.com/why-we-keep-playing-the-generation-blame-game-and-why-we-need-to-stop-82219

 

 

 

" The real problem is that ordinary folk of all generations are being conned - and coached to blame it on each other. 

 

 

Sorry (very Canadian) friend. But this is actually an us, free world, vs them kind of situation, personally Alf is on the side that has choices and where those who are Gay don’t get tossed of buildings. Hamas is evil. They don’t care about the people of Gaza. And notice Alf comments on the thread topic and not the poster. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What relevance do the plant's I grow have in relation to our discussion about your " blood drenched " flag.

And actually I grow a few plants that are native to Australia, Banksias, Persoonia, Wattles,  including one protea, the Waratah, which is the " state flower " of New South Wales. 

 

Back to the stolen land again.

 

I stated nothing about you stealing land.

You stated, something about a blood drenched flag, I stated it was drenched in the blood of the millions of first nations people that were slaughtered in your country. 

 

There were between 11,000 - 14,000 first nations people killed here in Australia when The British settled this country.

 

 

Your country 

 

https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/

 

" When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million native Americans living there.

By 1900 their estimated population was under 300,000. "

 

People talk about the holocaust, 6 million people killed which is horrific.

 

300,000 people left out of 10 million ?

 

What word describes that sort of killing.

Indigenous peoples believe the land cannot be owned by people. It’s for all of us. 

[GrammaInTheTub]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Indigenous peoples believe the land cannot be owned by people. It’s for all of us. 

Incorrect, Alf. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Incorrect, Alf. 

You’re wrong friend. 

[CBH1926]

22 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What relevance do the plant's I grow have in relation to our discussion about your " blood drenched " flag.

And actually I grow a few plants that are native to Australia, Banksias, Persoonia, Wattles,  including one protea, the Waratah, which is the " state flower " of New South Wales. 

 

Back to the stolen land again.

 

I stated nothing about you stealing land.

You stated, something about a blood drenched flag, I stated it was drenched in the blood of the millions of first nations people that were slaughtered in your country. 

 

There were between 11,000 - 14,000 first nations people killed here in Australia when The British settled this country.

 

 

Your country 

 

https://hmh.org/library/research/genocide-of-indigenous-peoples-guide/

 

" When European settlers arrived in the Americas, historians estimate there were over 10 million native Americans living there.

By 1900 their estimated population was under 300,000. "

 

People talk about the holocaust, 6 million people killed which is horrific.

 

300,000 people left out of 10 million ?

 

What word describes that sort of killing.

I think we can all agree that British colonialism in the U.S, Canada and Australia, had a terrible impact on the Native population.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

I think we can all agree that British colonialism in the U.S, Canada and Australia, had a terrible impact on the Native population.

True enough but what does this have to do with Hamas hiding being the Palistinian people?  

[CBH1926]

Just now, Alflives said:

True enough but what does this have to do with Hamas hiding being the Palistinian people?  

Nothing, I was just responding to a post about Australia and the U.S history of mistreatment of the Native population.

[GrammaInTheTub]

21 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You’re wrong friend. 

This is an antiquated view of Indigenous understandings of ownership. Just trust me on this one. 

[Alflives]

8 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

This is an antiquated view of Indigenous understandings of ownership. Just trust me on this one. 

No this is what we all should believe and is 100% indigenous. If you don’t agree then that’s your colonial European view. 

[Ilunga]

10 hours ago, Rook said:

My grandfather fought for the maple leaf and is sacred to me and many others like me, I would have walked up and taken it down myself instead of waiting for police. How do you think the protesters would have responded, yeah it would get ugly fast, definition of not being peaceful.. and who the F are those losers to fly that flag in our nation? Disgusting behaviour, they are terrorist sympathizers, they proven it with their chants, many supporting Hamas. While I worry about the innocent of Palestine, it’s not my problem to sort out, nor is it yours.  Those people need to take accountability for allowing Hamas to stay in power. You act as if nobody has ever overthrown a government before, the problem is there are too many that sympathize with Hamas.  Why are you so worried about just the Palestinian children?  What about the ones kidnapped that those barbarians refuse to release.  Trust me, take my people and I will level your whole block to get them back. No questions asked

 

My dad didn't fight for any flag.

There was an obvious evil, the Nazi regime that had to be destroyed.

He fought for justice, fighting against evil.

 

What little he would say about it, was his fellow soldiers felt the same.

 

This patriotism BS is how they suck young men into fighting unjust, stupid wars. 

 

WW1, exorting young Australian men to fight for king and country.

In a pointless war in Europe, against men who were fighting for their Kaiser and Father land. 

 

I used to speak to a lot of WW2 vets and Vietnam vets on Anzac day.

The WW2 vets never talked about a flag.

They talked about the Japanese who had invaded and conquered much of the pacific islands/countries and wanted to invade and conquer us.

They were fighting against them, not fighting for our flag.

 

The Vietnam vets were mainly 19 year old kids, conscripted to fight in an unjust war.

One of them is my neighbour, a few houses away.

This song best describes their experiences

 

 

 

 

And there you are getting angry, 

 

" Yeah it would get ugly fast, definition of not being peaceful "

 

We had a couple of " loudmouths " in our " gang ".

Funny when the shit hit the fan, they were nowhere to be seen.

 

I don't know many really good street fighters that bragged about how brave they were, or what they would do.

They didn't mouth off, they just fought.

 

 

And that's what my friends and I loved to do.

Fight rascist skinheads, bikers, bouncers at the " middle " night club.

The west side sharps amongst others.

 

The only gang we were really scared of was the Lebanese tigers.

No one really fucked with them.

 

Have you ever been involved in a mass brawl ?

Where people can actually fight ?

I used to be shitting myself before a fight started.

Once you were fighting, you were too busy to be scared.

 

Have you ever had a gun held to your head ?

I have, I was fuckin scared. 

 

As for flying flags, like who gives a fuck.

This illustrates the stupidity of our species.

A piece of cloth upsets you.

 

 

What upsets me is that thousands of women and children have been killed.

Hundreds of thousands more are starving.

Gaza is in ruins.

Shitloads of journalists have been murdered 

Aid workers have murdered.

 

And yes I am very worried about the Isreali hostages.

And my heart breaks for the families of the victims of October 7.

If you have read all my posts you would know this.

 

 

Because I have an " intense " nature, that was the nickname people at Mt. Hotham gave me, Intense dave.

I am also covered in tattoos.

I have tried to cultivate a gentle attitude, to promote peace and non violence.

I know what the consequences of using violence are.

 

So if people came and stole your land and terrorised and murdered your loved ones like the Isreali settlers have been doing for decades, you would

" level their whole block " ?

[Alflives]

17 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Nothing, I was just responding to a post about Australia and the U.S history of mistreatment of the Native population.

F Hamas. They are bad people who don’t care about the people of Gaza. 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Aus isn't an armed country, the US is. It's not all that hard to understand this response.

 

The students weren't armed.

 

I know the US is like any society, it has good people, bad and everything in between.

 

But holy shit mate.

Like we ain't perfect but the US is a pretty fucked up place.

 

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

No this is what we all should believe and is 100% indigenous. If you don’t agree then that’s your colonial European view. 

I’m Indigenous and work to advance Indigenous self-determination. Like I said - just take my word on this one.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I’m Indigenous and work to advance Indigenous self-determination. Like I said - just take my word on this one.

Of course you are. LMAAOAV. Seriously friend the bad Hamas people would want our loved women to be servants and totally covered and treated like they are worth less. You want that kind of people leading us? 

[Ilunga]

58 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Sorry (very Canadian) friend. But this is actually an us, free world, vs them kind of situation, personally Alf is on the side that has choices and where those who are Gay don’t get tossed of buildings. Hamas is evil. They don’t care about the people of Gaza. And notice Alf comments on the thread topic and not the poster. 

 

Alf, you really should stop drinking mate.

 

Yeah blah blah Hamas is evil.

 

What about the Isreali settlers who murder Palestinians, and commit acts of terror against them Alf ?

 

Are they evil ? 

 

And they might not throw " gay ", as you so quaintly put it, people of roofs in Isreal, however LGBTQ's people's rights are under threat there.

 

" Israeli protestors fear for the future of the country's precarious LGBTQ rights revolution " 

 

https://theconversation.com/israeli-protesters-fear-for-the-future-of-their-countrys-precarious-lgbtq-rights-revolution-205915

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/lgbtq-israelis-describe-being-shunned-by-global-community-after-october-7/0000018c-f92a-dd94-a9cc-fbee4d680000

 

" One MK ( member of Knesset ) declared in June that homosexuality " poses a more dangerous threat to Israel than ISIS, Hezbollah or Hamas "

 

And where did I make it " about " the poster.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Alf, you really should stop drinking mate.

 

Yeah blah blah Hamas is evil.

 

What about the Isreali settlers who murder Palestinians, and commit acts of terror against them Alf ?

 

Are they evil ? 

 

And they might not throw " gay ", as you so quaintly put it, people of roofs in Isreal, however LGBTQ's people's rights are under threat there.

 

" Israeli protestors fear for the future of the country's precarious LGBTQ rights revolution " 

 

https://theconversation.com/israeli-protesters-fear-for-the-future-of-their-countrys-precarious-lgbtq-rights-revolution-205915

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-01-11/ty-article-magazine/.premium/lgbtq-israelis-describe-being-shunned-by-global-community-after-october-7/0000018c-f92a-dd94-a9cc-fbee4d680000

 

" One MK ( member of Knesset ) declared in June that homosexuality " poses a more dangerous threat to Israel than ISIS, Hezbollah or Hamas "

 

And where did I make it " about " the poster.

Again Alf comments on the topic and not on the poster. Hamas is evil; they must be eliminated. Post what you like about personal things. Alf agrees (mostly). But in the real world it’s still us v them. Alf is on the “us” side. Hamas and their supporters (Iran for one( hate us. I’m f we want our comfortable lives to continue then we need to accept there are two sides in this battle. Our side (I know we will win because we don’t have idiots) and the other side that has the easily duped and morans. 

[GrammaInTheTub]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Of course you are. LMAAOAV. Seriously friend the bad Hamas people would want our loved women to be servants and totally covered and treated like they are worth less. You want that kind of people leading us? 

I’m not sure what most of this means. I was not commenting on the overall thread topic. I was merely pointing out your antiquated views on Indigenous understandings of exclusive use and occupation. I’m now going to bow out from any further conversation here as I am not contributing to the thread. I prefer our chats about hockey Alf - so I’ll see you over there

[Ilunga]

55 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

I think we can all agree that British colonialism in the U.S, Canada and Australia, had a terrible impact on the Native population.

 

Yes.

But don't those figures schock you brother ?

 

300,000 people left out of 10 million.

 

The world is rightfully horrified by six million people being killed.

 

Over 9 million ?

 

My post  was in reply to that statement about a " blood drenched " flag.

 

Patriotism

 

" A soldier will fight long and hard for a bit of coloured ribbon " 

 

Napoleon Bonaparte 

 

" Patriotism is the virtue of the viscous "

 

 Oscar Wilde 

 

" Patriotism is your conviction that your country is superior to all others because you were born in it " 

 

George Bernard Shaw

 

" It is lamentable, that to be a good patriot, one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind " 

 

Voltaire 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I’m not sure what most of this means. I was not commenting on the overall thread topic. I was merely pointing out your antiquated views on Indigenous understandings of exclusive use and occupation. I’m now going to bow out from any further conversation here as I am not contributing to the thread. I prefer our chats about hockey Alf - so I’ll see you over there

Sorry friend but you make no sense. Personally Alf has respect and love for women and the LBGQ people. Hamas tosses those who are different off roofs. Alf does not think Hamas is good. Slf thinks Hamas is bad. Why do you think Hamas is good? 

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Again Alf comments on the topic and not on the poster. Hamas is evil; they must be eliminated. Post what you like about personal things. Alf agrees (mostly). But in the real world it’s still us v them. Alf is on the “us” side. Hamas and their supporters (Iran for one( hate us. I’m f we want our comfortable lives to continue then we need to accept there are two sides in this battle. Our side (I know we will win because we don’t have idiots) and the other side that has the easily duped and morans. 

 

So you weren't commenting on the poster,  when you accused me of hating Israel a few days ago ?

 

What were those truckers, and their  convoy Alf. 

 

I seem to remember you calling them idiots.

 

There are " idiots " in every society. 

 

As this American Jew stated 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

Alf, the biggest idiot of them all might get another chance to lead his legion of idiots in the US and " your " side.