Sharpshooter Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 The past can always be used to advance any narrative one wants. There’s so much of that on both sides. The question is, when does the world and either side come together for peace and stability, despite the narratives from the past, in order to usher in a peaceful future? Does any leader want to just say plainly, “enough is enough” or is this struggle always going to be a political placeholder for the machinations of internal politics by countries who don’t have an actual life/death stake on the ground? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 6 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: Does any leader want to just say plainly, “enough is enough” or Correct! Enough of what we are doing is wrong! Peace will only come? When at least one side takes (some / more) responsibility. Says we will withdraw & offer more dignity to the opposing side. Than we have offered before. Then the other also makes such a gesture. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 8 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: The past can always be used to advance any narrative one wants. There’s so much of that on both sides. The question is, when does the world and either side come together for peace and stability, despite the narratives from the past, in order to usher in a peaceful future? Does any leader want to just say plainly, “enough is enough” or is this struggle always going to be a political placeholder for the machinations of internal politics by countries who don’t have an actual life/death stake on the ground? Probably when religion doesn't have a hold on people anymore. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 2 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Probably when religion doesn't have a hold on people anymore. People are stupid sheep. If it’s not religion leading them to hatred and killing then it’s some other equally hateful belief system. It’s been this way since the beginning and will be this way until we finally dispatched as a species. Look at the Hamas charter. They insist all others live under their rule or die. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 27 minutes ago, Alflives said: People are stupid sheep. If it’s not religion leading them to hatred and killing then it’s some other equally hateful belief system. It’s been this way since the beginning and will be this way until we finally dispatched as a species. Look at the Hamas charter. They insist all others live under their rule or die. Our ability to abstract reality into a convenient narrative is on full display in this conflict from many angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 8 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: The past can always be used to advance any narrative one wants. There’s so much of that on both sides. The question is, when does the world and either side come together for peace and stability, despite the narratives from the past, in order to usher in a peaceful future? Does any leader want to just say plainly, “enough is enough” or is this struggle always going to be a political placeholder for the machinations of internal politics by countries who don’t have an actual life/death stake on the ground? The challenge is that it has to be leaders on 2 sides simultaneously saying that. Otherwise it's the old saying - "if Israel lays down its arms - there will be no Israel". 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Our ability to abstract reality into a convenient narrative is on full display in this conflict from many angles. IMHAO if Hamas is destroyed and the Gaza people accepted a true democratic way of life the western world would help build Gaza into a thriving nation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 Just now, Alflives said: IMHAO if Hamas is destroyed and the Gaza people accepted a true democratic way of life the western world would help build Gaza into a thriving nation. thats the rub. Is that in the cards right now? thats why when I hear people chant "free Palestine" I wonder, free it to what? because right now, thats Hamas. 10 minutes ago, RomanPer said: The challenge is that it has to be leaders on 2 sides simultaneously saying that. Otherwise it's the old saying - "if Israel lays down its arms - there will be no Israel". how does anyone control the crazies that don't want to see this? also, who the heck is going to take over Gaza that doesn't have a hateful agenda right now? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted May 29 Share Posted May 29 22 hours ago, Odd. said: I wonder how many people would’ve seriously reacted if you were forced out of your home and neighbourhood, denied basic medical care and human rights, denied the right to travel, constantly being air striked or bombed by an occupying entity, for generations, while having to navigate through life in these sorts of conditions and circumstances. I do have a lot of sympathy for the people of Gaza. However, they also elected Hamas and continued to support Hamas in election polls. Hamas was never shy that their goal was full out warfare and genocide. The people electing Hamas were under the belief that, for religious religions, Hamas would be triumphant and they would get to slaughter all the Jews and take all the land for themselves. It just didn't work that way. 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 The 'Philadelphia' corridor? Not sure I understand that reference. Its significant! Taking over the border territory will close most tunnels & illegal access for weapons. Limit Hamas from waging militancy! Significantly perhaps even moreso, also black market goods; which also cannot be underrated as a fundamental source for controlling local populations. Virtually every business in Gaza has had to pay both allegiance. And a toll to Hamas to operate any kind of business. No matter how limited. This is the key source of funding, tax free, for corrupt leadership. There are ideologues, say Sinwar who simply wants to kill Jews. Yet most of the balance of Hamas leaders, see Haniyeh, claim allegiance to Palestine's cause? I call BS! Ismail Haniyeh went from a peasant born in a 'refugee' camp. To having between five and ten billion in assets already cycled in laundering processes! Handling assets worth 5 x times that? Religion is a factor for some, really just a control mechanism for the greed of leaders. Without funding; I believe those like Haniyeh, will take what money they have already cleansed & banked? Move on to now more profitable businesses, without the same international scrutiny. Like drug trades their international smuggling & laundering connections have created. Which are oddly more underground & 'safe.' In alternate jurisdictions, like Yemen, Wet Sudan, CAR? There is chaos through much of SE Asia, Africa. Buy up diamond mines & coffee fields, cheap labour sources & literally slaves. They will leave Gazans to fend for themselves. I predict this~! As much as Egypt suggests it is horrified by this situation? Egypt is also corrupt; the Muslim Brotherhood underpins autocratic rule in the land of Pharaohs. Makes tens, probably hundreds of millions in payola. If not billions for trade tunneled & even through the Rafah border gates? A hand in arms trades, critical goods, border controls. It cannot be understated that this is why it's so strategic. So this, choosing my analysis symbolically, differing from my own views, empowers Israel to starve out peace negotiations. Hamas will capitulate without funding! Back to Egypt. It will limit the flow of 'refugee's received. A political win? These often being militants even bordering Muslim countries consider extremist. Who all border countries, see Lebanon after Jordan's war evicted the PLO in the 70's, do not want to set up shop. To become either active, nor competition domestically. Hamas will simply move further abroad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted May 30 Share Posted May 30 ^^^ It's crazy to me that Israel was able to take over the border with so little resistance from Hamas. They basically walked through in a couple of days. It likely means that Hamas is now just dwindling isolated cells operating from underground bunkers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 https://youtu.be/t6of72XgiUg A Palestinian Explains Hamas | 5 Minute Video 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted May 31 Share Posted May 31 Remember this next time they tell you all this is just anti-Israel and not antisemitic… 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/05/31/pro-palestinian-protesters-east-vancouver-rail-line/ Convoy 2.0 only dumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 2 hours ago, bolt said: https://vancouver.citynews.ca/2024/05/31/pro-palestinian-protesters-east-vancouver-rail-line/ Convoy 2.0 only dumber The protesters on both sides have been over the top, dangerous, and straight fucking stupid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 On 5/29/2024 at 6:51 AM, Bob Long said: Probably when religion doesn't have a hold on people anymore. So, until the end of the ‘world’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said: So, until the end of the ‘world’? Yea... apparently there's some hope for a deal soon tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Yea... apparently there's some hope for a deal soon tho. So the ‘end of the world is nigh’? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Just now, Sharpshooter said: So the ‘end of the world is nigh’? Feels like it some days. Dunno, I hope things cool down but won't be surprised if this thread is still going this time next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Feels like it some days. Dunno, I hope things cool down but won't be surprised if this thread is still going this time next year. No. It’s not. Not even close. The world continues to ‘turn’ as it always has. These people rule then those people rule, then a buncha people get together to rule. Then someone protests, then a bunch of other persons protest, and then there’s a backlash to that because it’s upsetting ‘norms’. Then there’s discord, strife, revolution…peace after death and war….then rinse and repeat. What part of the ‘cycle’ are ‘we’ on right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 This is why ‘we’ should always respect ‘our Edlers. They’ve seen the cycles of War and Peace over decades. ‘We’ think it’s new. It isn’t. It’s the same crap over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 Great. Now I’m the jaded ‘old’ guy on this Site. FML. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 I said Edlers, btw. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the destroyer of worlds Posted June 1 Share Posted June 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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