Ilunga Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said: Five Israeli Soldiers died in a tunnel today that was a smuggling tunnel from Egypt to Rafah. No wonder all the losers demanding Rafah not be secured by Israel were so adamant about it. I wonder now how many hostages have been removed from Gaza all-together and possibly are en route to or in Iran by now? Two other Egypt - Rafah tunnels have been found but obviously will be much slower to clear considering the booby traps in the earlier one this morning. I think most people here are already aware of the UNRWA school being used an Ops center by Hamas Militants being blown up by the IDF recently too, with roughly 40 Hamas members being the targets. I don't know how to classify their families who were also on scene there. I mean they are not combatants, but they aren't random innocent civilians either. I wonder what they are known as officially? ((after looking this up turns out civilians lose the cover of "non-combatants" if they are aiding and abetting combatants, like their husbands who are fighting members of Hamas, for instance))Chattel is what Hamas considers them. Reveal hidden contents (Chattel is a catch-all category of property associated with movable goods. At common law, chattel included all property other than real property. Examples include leases, animals, and money. In modern usage, chattel usually only refers to tangible movable personal property.) I wish success and speed to the IDF as they finish the terrible but necessary work of eliminating Hamas. Remember you telling us about your nevvy that got beaten up at school. I not only " hugged " your post, I replied and offered my heart felt sympathy for what he had to endure. Well how do you feel about what is happening to the 625,000 kids in Gaza. Being forced to endure and see things no child should see or endure. It never ceases to amaze me how so many people's empathy and compassion is limited to a certain group they align with. If those were Israeli kids that were going through what the Palestinian kids in Gaza are enduring, I would be advocating just as passionately for them, as I am for the Palestinian kids. Also what do you think about the Israelis rampaging through the Muslims quarter of Jerusalem shouting, " death to Arabs" yesterday ? IMO they are just as bad as the Palestinians who advocate for the death of Israelis/Jews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Start of May https://www.npr.org/2024/05/13/1250753619/gaza-palestinians-unexploded-ordnance-bombs-israel " There is now more rubble in Gaza than there is in Ukraine " Birch says. " And to put that into perspective the front line in Ukraine is 600 miles long and Gaza is 25 miles long. " Then there is the unexploded munitions/ ordnance. " The UN estimates that it could take 14 years to make Gaza safe from these bombs. " " I was in Sarajevo in '92, I was in Baghdad in 2003, I was in Kabul. But nothing can compare to what we saw in Gaza " said Erik Tollefsen an explosives expert who served in the Norwegian military and is now with the international committee of the Red Cross (ICRC), he was in Gaza in February and March. " It was just breathtaking the level of destruction. It's really horrifying " he says. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 hours ago, Ilunga said: Here is an article with a Isreali analyst explaining why it is not possible to wipe out Hamas' https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast/352059/why-israel-cant-destroy-hamas Note, one of the points he brings up is that Netanyahu wants Hamas' in power so he doesn't have to worry about making peace. And he wants the war to go on so he can stay in power. And this article not only comes to the same conclusion, it points out that many of the Palestinians feel the way you, and we all do about their leaders. They don't trust them. https://www.securityincontext.com/posts/the-unending-challenge-why-hamas-cannot-be-completely-destroyed So do you want to keep going down the same path, one where an entire enclave has been virtually destroyed, millions are on the brink of famine, hundreds of thousands of children are forced to see and endure things no child should be forced to see or endure ? All in the hope of doing something that probably can't be done. Or do you want the hostages returned safely to their families in Israel. And see an end to the suffering, and destruction in Gaza. That's what I want. You do realize that no matter how many times you are asked to look at what Hamas can do. To contribute to a peaceful solution? You take more shots at Netanyahu & Israel. That is why your points, honestly intended or otherwise. Ring shallow, pointless. Forget about Bibi and when they propped up Hamas as opposition to the PLO historically. Yes it happened. No they don't want them in power anymore. Something which did not become successful. Pretty farjing obvious? FFS, what can Hamas do??? There will be no peace with onus only on Israel. Worse; they hold more cards and power militarily than ever. The tunnels are now closed? Hamas will wither, succumb. Hamas has to come to the table aggressively for any concession. Or that is an inevitability! What you want, how you propose to get there anyway, asks for more bloodshed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 12 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: You do realize that no matter how many times you are asked to look at what Hamas can do. To contribute to a peaceful solution? You take more shots at Netanyahu & Israel. That is why your points, honestly intended or otherwise. Ring shallow, pointless. Forget about Bibi and when they propped up Hamas as opposition to the PLO historically. Yes it happened. No they don't want them in power anymore. Something which did not become successful. Pretty farjing obvious? FFS, what can Hamas do??? There will be no peace with onus only on Israel. Worse; they hold more cards and power militarily than ever. The tunnels are now closed? Hamas will wither, succumb. Hamas has to come to the table aggressively for any concession. Or that is an inevitability! What you want, how you propose to get there anyway, asks for more bloodshed. There is nothing Hamas can do. Apart from returning the Hostages, which is what I have been advocating for from the start, and that does not absolve them of their actions on October 7, or their actions before that, for that matter. It is the way Israel goes about destroying them that is what not just myself, but Millions of people around the world are concerned about. And yes we can forget about Netanyahu's previous actions however as that Israeli analyst noted, he doesn't want peace now, he wants the war to continue so he can hold onto power. That's not the past, that's right fuckin now. I have told you, and others many times what I want. I will repeat myself again. I, like the families of the hostages and the US, want a ceasefire. In return I want all the hostages returned. I want Palestinians that have a history working towards a peaceful solution to this never ending conflict in some sort of leadership role. I have posted articles and videos about Palestinians who have and are working with Isrealis for a peaceful solution. If I had my way, I would line up every Hamas' fighter, their leaders, Netanyahu, a bunch of those right wings nutjobs, any Palestinian or Isreali that has committed a crime against humanity and shoot them. And I am usually against the death penalty. Then I would grab all those fuckin idiots, Palestinian, Isreali, by the scruff of their necks and tell them to get their shit together and treat each other the way the each want to be treated themselves. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: There is now more rubble in Gaza than there is in Ukraine " Birch says. " And to put that into perspective the front line in Ukraine is 600 miles long and Gaza is 25 miles long. " Birch is a nimrod. There are at least 800,000 dead in that war. Likely 1.1 or 1.2 million. Towns like Mariupol, 85 % of civilian homes and apartment buildings levelled. Only 40,000 of its 425,000 pre war population remain. Reportedly 15,000 dead, but aerial photos found 35,000 unmarked graves. Then see below re apartment buildings. Bakhmut & Soledar 100% levelled. At least 6,500,000 refugees & 8,000,000 plus people in total displaced. As many as 750,000 missing children, un accounted for. Unfortunately, sometimes dozens to hundreds under the rubble of the collapsed apartments. Many taken to Russia. One aim of the war for Putin is to repopulate area's with demographic shortcomings in youth who will evolve in to educated and skilled workforce requirements. An evil genius Putin; solving their demographic problems. And killing off all their dangerous criminals conscripting them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) 44 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: Birch is a nimrod. There are at least 800,000 dead in that war. Likely 1.1 or 1.2 million. Towns like Mariupol, 85 % of civilian homes and apartment buildings levelled. Only 40,000 of its 425,000 pre war population remain. Reportedly 15,000 dead, but aerial photos found 35,000 unmarked graves. Then see below re apartment buildings. Bakhmut & Soledar 100% levelled. At least 6,500,000 refugees & 8,000,000 plus people in total displaced. As many as 750,000 missing children, un accounted for. Unfortunately, sometimes dozens to hundreds under the rubble of the collapsed apartments. Many taken to Russia. One aim of the war for Putin is to repopulate area's with demographic shortcomings in youth who will evolve in to educated and skilled workforce requirements. An evil genius Putin; solving their demographic problems. And killing off all their dangerous criminals conscripting them! That article wasn't about civilian deaths and casualties. Or children that have been abducted by Russia, I did read a figure in regards to this of 700,000. He was talking about rubble/destruction. About a Dozen media outlets are reporting this at least. Oh and here is a media bias assessment of NPR, the source of that article I posted. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/npr/ Factual reporting High MBFC Credibility Rating High Credibility Rating Edited June 7 by Ilunga Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Israeli spin of an event above ^ first. Left wing / UN lobby 2knd below. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 This video goes on to say 6000 civilians were sheltering here. 40 dead including 12 children. i see 40 dead as probable, including possibly children! Meanwhile latest reports say Hamas will only give back hostages if Israel agrees to a permanent ceasefire? I see that as code for 6000 was not realistic. Overstated for dramatic effect. A similar attack on a theatre in Mariupol, killed three or four hundred with 5 times less sheltering. I also see it as code for there being Hamas operatives not being admitted as on site. That Hamas is clinging to hostages, hiding with civilians to cling to power! Play on sympathy for survival. My opinion, not fact. Should Hamas be allowed to live & rule like this for another day? Palestinians need to take their chances getting rid of Hamas. This is getting them nowhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 @Canuck Surfer @Alflives why do you guys even bother? You will get back a bunch of opinion links presented as “facts” and eventually be called something you are not. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 12 hours ago, Ilunga said: Why do you continually BS ? What about the word condemn is it that you don't understand ? Condemn " Express complete disapproval of " " Censure " I not only condemn their actions on October 7, and before then, I hope the actual people who perpetrated those acts on October 7 receive a punishment that is commensurate with their actions, a painful punishment. I have stated those actions were horrific, they were attrocities. Again, Hamas' are the bad guys, Israel are meant to be the ' good guys ". Good guys don't target and kill children, elderly and non combatants. I didn't assume anything, I took the word of 8 doctors, one of them Canadian, who stated that there was a steady stream of children and elderly that had single shot gunshot wounds that were indicative of sniper wounds. You don't have an answer for the evidence I provided that Israel has targeted and killed children, so you make up some BS. If I am a Hamas' supporter then so is your Foreign Minister Melanie Joy, when talking about Gaza, she stated, " The level of Human suffering is catastrophic " https://www.vox.com/today-explained-podcast/352059/why-israel-cant-destroy-hamas And I guess that Israeli analyst is a Hamas' supporter because he states Hamas' cannot be wiped out. Just because I know Isreals response is disproportionate to the events of October 7 doesn't mean i don't want the people who committed those attrocities on October 7 to be held accountable, I do. I just don't want millions of people suffering, paying the price for the actions of a minority. You might think that what happened on October 7 justifies the suffering that has happened in Gaza since then, I don't. Especially what has, and is happening to the children. I get you don't care one bit for what is happening to the kids in Gaza. You are so full of what I just have finished spreading on some of my plants. You can't come up with any valid arguments/evidence so you accuse me of supporting terrorists. Remember you lies, claiming that I denied the new don't have a long connection to the land of Israel/Palestine ? I had literally posted the page before about the first Temple. Then there was when you doubled down on your BS claims that Israel didn't help start and fund Hamas', even after I had provided evidence, twice, that they actually did. Over and over again you prove you are full of it. Maybe you could help me out and talk around the base of some of my plants that need fertilizing. Just admit that the Palestinians elected Hamas, who are a racist terrorist organization, as their leaders. Now Israel has to deal with that, and put Israel's actions in the context of having to deal with Hamas. Instead, you continually parrot Hamas' talking points. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 2 minutes ago, Taxi said: Just admit that the Palestinians elected Hamas, who are a racist terrorist organization, as their leaders. Now Israel has to deal with that, and put Israel's actions in the context of having to deal with Hamas. Instead, you continually parrot Hamas' talking points. And? israel elected netenyahu. Again and again and again and again. How many settlements? How much stolen land? Dead kids for simply portesting or throwing rocks over the last few decades? hamas refuses to allow for elections to happen again. The palestinian people have no means of removing them. Israelis have the means to remove netenyahu but wont Think on that next time you suggest the idea that elections mean blanket approval Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: And? israel elected netenyahu. Again and again and again and again. How many settlements? How much stolen land? Dead kids for simply portesting or throwing rocks over the last few decades? hamas refuses to allow for elections to happen again. The palestinian people have no means of removing them. Israelis have the means to remove netenyahu but wont Think on that next time you suggest the idea that elections mean blanket approval Israeli's voted Netanyahu out of power multiple times, including most recently in 2021. Current polls indicate that he is likely to be voted out of power again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 5 minutes ago, Taxi said: Israeli's voted Netanyahu out of power multiple times, including most recently in 2021. Current polls indicate that he is likely to be voted out of power again. Multiple times yet...look who's still calling the shots. Guess who doesn't have the ability to vote out their terrible leadership or the arms or the assistance of the world. No really go ahead, guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkidu Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 (edited) On 6/6/2024 at 2:27 AM, Ilunga said: Yes and we have all condemned Hamas, time and time again. But what you are doing is whataboutism. The subject at hand is the IDF targeting children, and the elderly for that matter. Willing to believe that Mohammed Tamimi's death was an " accident ", well I don't. How about this, are you willing to take the word of a Canadian doctor in regards to Israel targeting children. " Not a normal war. Doctors say children have been targeted Isreali snipers in Gaza " https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/02/gaza-palestinian-children-killed-idf-israel-war " I asked the nurse, what's the history ?, she said they were brought in a couple of hours ago. They had sniper shots to the brain. They were seven or eight years old, she said. The Canadians doctor heart sank. These were not the first children treated by Alvi who she was told were targeted by Israeli soldiers, and she knew the damage a single high calibre bullet could do to a fragile young body. They were not able to talk, they were paraplegic. They were literally lying down as vegetables on those beds. They were not the only ones. I even saw small children with direct sniper shot wounds to the head as well as in the chest. They were not combatants, they were small children, she said. " " Nine doctors gave accounts of working in Gaza hospitals this year, all but one of them foreign volunteers. Their common assessment was that most of the dead and wounded children they treated were hit by shrapnel or burned during Israel's extensive bombardment of residential neighbourhoods, in some cases wiping out entire families. Others were killed or injured by collapsing buildings with still more missing under the rubble. " But doctors also reported treating a steady stream of children, elderly people and others who were clearly not combatants with single bullet wounds to the head or the chest. " Single bullet wounds to the head or the chest ? Diagnosed by foreign volunteer doctors ? There's no evidence they were targeted, just hearsay by (other) conclusion leapers. Doctors can only describe a wound, not the mind of the shooter, A bullet wound to a non-combatant is commonly a single shot, i.e. accidental, stray. Edited June 7 by Inkidu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Birch is a nimrod. I have been to the Castle built by Nimrod. It was state of the art for its day in Northern Syria. Thing is they didn't build a door or a gate and their amazing castle was simply walked into during the night and everyone inside was slaughtered. Nimrods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: And? israel elected netenyahu. Again and again and again and again. How many settlements? How much stolen land? Dead kids for simply portesting or throwing rocks over the last few decades? hamas refuses to allow for elections to happen again. The palestinian people have no means of removing them. Israelis have the means to remove netenyahu but wont Think on that next time you suggest the idea that elections mean blanket approval Is Israel no longer a democratic country? You say but won't when it comes to Bibi but I can see Israel wanting change after all this. Just have to wait and see. Hamas tho is a cancer. The UN needs to nut up and move in so new elections can be held in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Is Israel no longer a democratic country? You say but won't when it comes to Bibi but I can see Israel wanting change after all this. Just have to wait and see. Hamas tho is a cancer. The UN needs to nut up and move in so new elections can be held in Gaza. Gaza? Doesn't exist anymore homie. Estimates on the low end think it will take almost 80 years or more to rebuild and that's IF Israel relaxes blockade restrictions on materials. So uh...where else should they hold these elections do ya think? West bank? Get it done before it gets settled I guess. Israel is a democratic nation yup. But Bibi has been a major politician or in power there since the 90s and even with his legal issues keeps getting voted in or propped up. Hamas? They got "voted in" and immediately refused to have another election and made people who wanted one disappear. Palestinians don't HAVE the ability to have another election. They can't overthrow Hamas. Before you claim "that's what israel is trying to do" try harder because Israel could have cut the head off of that snake almost 2 decades ago but hasn't Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: hamas refuses to allow for elections to happen again. The palestinian people have no means of removing them. Israelis have the means to remove Netenyahu but wont One reason war hawks are elected in Israel is the surrounding danger around them. A Netanyahu, does not really matter who, has gone on some purge to reduce the strength of surrounding militant / military forces every ten to 15 years. In this case take down Hamas a few pegs. Partly, well almost wholly because groups like Hamas cannot be removed. Do attack. I call Israeli populations as numb to Palestinian suffering at their hands by Settlers. This is wrong; but they have also been attacked endlessly. When people have safe rooms, are accustomed to the sounds of incoming missiles & air raid sirens. Every generation family killed in war. Know friends injured by suicide bombers? Affection wanes sadly to indifference. If you don't think it matters? Look at Lebanon; now overrun by Hezbollah. Syria. You can ignore that this is their intent for Israel? Which is magnified by all Muslim groups wanting control over Muslim holy sites. If you don't want to call it hatred. But the threat is real just as Israel has its abuses. Please consider your own statement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Just now, Warhippy said: Gaza? Doesn't exist anymore homie. Estimates on the low end think it will take almost 80 years or more to rebuild and that's IF Israel relaxes blockade restrictions on materials. Whose estimates? Just now, Warhippy said: So uh...where else should they hold these elections do ya think? West bank? Get it done before it gets settled I guess. No, Gaza. Just now, Warhippy said: Israel is a democratic nation yup. But Bibi has been a major politician or in power there since the 90s and even with his legal issues keeps getting voted in or propped up. Hamas? They got "voted in" and immediately refused to have another election and made people who wanted one disappear. Palestinians don't HAVE the ability to have another election. They can't overthrow Hamas. Before you claim "that's what israel is trying to do" try harder because Israel could have cut the head off of that snake almost 2 decades ago but hasn't They absolutely can have an election if the UN comes in and provides safe voting sites. Or are we just abandoning Gazans to hamas now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Whose estimates? No, Gaza. They absolutely can have an election if the UN comes in and provides safe voting sites. Or are we just abandoning Gazans to hamas now? Estimates https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/world/middleeast/gaza-homes-rebuild-un-report.html https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/rebuilding-bombed-gaza-homes-may-take-80-years-un-says-2024-05-02/ https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24691 Gaza doesn't exist anymore....why is that hard to understand? between the destruction, the inability to rebuild and the reports that Israel is still seeking a potential DMZ on the palestinian side of the Gaza strip; where would you hold the elections? https://www.semafor.com/article/01/22/2024/israel-seeks-to-build-no-mans-land-inside-gaza https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-hamas-war-buffer-zone-explained-2a7347af https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-egypt-border-philadelphi-corridor-palestinians-displaced/ The UN is not allowed to come in. Israel will not allow it. It's been stated and tried before and the US shot it down. the issue with the UN councils is when the US, Russia and China have carte blanche via vetos etc and refuse sensible action, sensible actions are not taken. Savy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Hamas? They got "voted in" and immediately refused to have another election and made people who wanted one disappear. Palestinians don't HAVE the ability to have another election. They can't overthrow Hamas. Before you claim "that's what israel is trying to do" try harder because Israel could have cut the head off of that snake almost 2 decades ago but hasn't Please consider your own statement. An alternate source of leadership, hopefully while Hamas has been weakened must surface. Palestinians should realize Hamas need to be considered the major contributing factor as to why they are under duress! They also have been brainwashed that they must kill Israelis. Yet enough are dying, suffering. People who have businesses pay the local payola tolls. They know the govt is violent, corrupt. They see where Hamas has led them. Perhaps it needs a multi national, Arab / UN coalition to establish security without Hamas. When an alternate govt is on offer, Israel can and would retreat. When leaders like Haniyeh are in exile, not pulling strings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 Dresden did not take 80 years to rebuild. Neither will Gaza. Israel will have no choice but to contribute. There will no shortage of Arab and Western investors. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: Estimates https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/02/world/middleeast/gaza-homes-rebuild-un-report.html https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/rebuilding-bombed-gaza-homes-may-take-80-years-un-says-2024-05-02/ https://thecradle.co/articles-id/24691 Gaza doesn't exist anymore....why is that hard to understand? between the destruction, the inability to rebuild and the reports that Israel is still seeking a potential DMZ on the palestinian side of the Gaza strip; where would you hold the elections? https://www.semafor.com/article/01/22/2024/israel-seeks-to-build-no-mans-land-inside-gaza https://www.wsj.com/world/middle-east/israel-gaza-hamas-war-buffer-zone-explained-2a7347af https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-gaza-egypt-border-philadelphi-corridor-palestinians-displaced/ Why does it have to be reconstructed as it was? Surely there are better options than this report is saying, I don't buy it. 80 years is a ridiculous amount of time. 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: The UN is not allowed to come in. Israel will not allow it. It's been stated and tried before and the US shot it down. the issue with the UN councils is when the US, Russia and China have carte blanche via vetos etc and refuse sensible action, sensible actions are not taken. Savy? Things can change in a hurry. Why would China eg refuse to help with an election? Maybe it needs to be a coalition of Arab countries, if not the UN. But they don't like the Hamas crazies either so they are probably happy to let Israel deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Why does it have to be reconstructed as it was? Surely there are better options than this report is saying, I don't buy it. 80 years is a ridiculous amount of time. Things can change in a hurry. Why would China eg refuse to help with an election? Maybe it needs to be a coalition of Arab countries, if not the UN. But they don't like the Hamas crazies either so they are probably happy to let Israel deal with it. Read the reports. China wouldn't. The US has. A coalition makes the most sense for governance but again, there has to be two sides in agreement. Think that's gonna happen right now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 7 Share Posted June 7 29 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Read the reports. China wouldn't. The US has. A coalition makes the most sense for governance but again, there has to be two sides in agreement. Think that's gonna happen right now? Now? No. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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