Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Taxi said:

Just admit that the Palestinians elected Hamas, who are a racist terrorist organization, as their leaders. 

 

Now Israel has to deal with that, and put Israel's actions in the context of having to deal with Hamas. Instead, you continually parrot Hamas' talking points. 

 

 

 

 

Of course the Palestinians elected Hamas', that's a fact. 

 

Hamas' has " ruled " with no regard for the Palestinians in Gaza since they were elected.

 

They have fired rockets at Israel.

They have killed Israelis.

All this long before October 7. 

 

And yes they are a racist, terror group. 

 

Again, you fail to realise that it is not the ends (Israel wiping out Hamas') that I, and millions of people are concerned about.

It's the means. 

 

I know that killing thousands of women and children.

Actually targeting children.

Causing the conditions for famine for millions more.

Forcing hundreds of thousands of children to see and endure things no child should have to see and endure. 

Basically destroying an entire enclave.

 

That is a disproportionate response to the horrific events of October 7. 

 

Now how about you admit, just like all these Isrealis state, that Isreal is an arpartheid state. 

 

Ex head of the Mossad, Tamir Pardo

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief

 

 

How about all these Ex Isreali PM's

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785

 

" Israel.... better rid itself of the territories and their Arab population as soon as possible. If it did not Israel would soon become an arpartheid state. "

 

Prophetic words from David Ben Gurion in 1967

 

More prophetic words 

 

" I don't think it's possible to contain over the long term, if we don't want to get to arpartheid, a million and a half (more) Arabs inside a Jewish state. "

Yitzhak Rabin

 

"If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."

Ehud Barak

 

 

" We've established an arpartheid regime in the occupied territories"

Former Isreali Attorney general Michael Ben Yair

 

What acts like arpartheid, is run like arpartheid and harrasses like arpartheid, is not a duck, it's arpartheid "

Former Israeli environmental minister Yossi Sarid

 

" The state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of arpartheid with the native Palestinian population "

Former Isreali education Minister Shulamit Aloni 

 

" In the situation that exists today, until a Palestinian state is created, we are actually one state, " This joint state... is an arpartheid state"

Former Isreali Ambassador to South Africa Alon liel 

 

" The supreme court could have taken a braver decision, and not relegated us to an arpartheid state "

Zehava Galon former chair of the Meretz party 

 

" On the Palestinian matter (Benjamin Netanyahu's) policies are leading to either a binational state or an arpartheid state "

Meir Dagan former head of Mossad. 

 

Then you retired Isreali army general Amiram Levin stating

 

" West Bank occupation is arpartheid "

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/2023/08/13/retired-israeli-general-says-west-bank-occupation-is-apartheid/

 

 

 

Then you have Isreal human rights organisations

 

" This is arpartheid "

 

http://www.btselem.org/apartheid

 

These are all just Isreal voices.

 

Human rights organisations and people all over the world know arpartheid when they see it. 

 

And what do you call all those young Isreali men who rampaged through the Muslim quarter of Jerusalem a few days ago, beating up people and shouting " death to Arabs "  ?

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

Of course the Palestinians elected Hamas', that's a fact. 

 

Hamas' has " ruled " with no regard for the Palestinians in Gaza since they were elected.

 

They have fired rockets at Israel.

They have killed Israelis.

All this long before October 7. 

 

And yes they are a racist, terror group. 

 

Again, you fail to realise that it is not the ends (Israel wiping out Hamas') that I, and millions of people are concerned about.

It's the means. 

 

I know that killing thousands of women and children.

Actually targeting children.

Causing the conditions for famine for millions more.

Forcing hundreds of thousands of children to see and endure things no child should have to see and endure. 

Basically destroying an entire enclave.

 

That is a disproportionate response to the horrific events of October 7. 

 

Now how about you admit, just like all these Isrealis state, that Isreal is an arpartheid state. 

 

Ex head of the Mossad, Tamir Pardo

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief

 

 

How about all these Ex Isreali PM's

 

https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785

 

" Israel.... better rid itself of the territories and their Arab population as soon as possible. If it did not Israel would soon become an arpartheid state. "

 

Prophetic words from David Ben Gurion in 1967

 

More prophetic words 

 

" I don't think it's possible to contain over the long term, if we don't want to get to arpartheid, a million and a half (more) Arabs inside a Jewish state. "

Yitzhak Rabin

 

"If this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state."

Ehud Barak

 

 

" We've established an arpartheid regime in the occupied territories"

Former Isreali Attorney general Michael Ben Yair

 

What acts like arpartheid, is run like arpartheid and harrasses like arpartheid, is not a duck, it's arpartheid "

Former Israeli environmental minister Yossi Sarid

 

" The state of Israel practices its own, quite violent, form of arpartheid with the native Palestinian population "

Former Isreali education Minister Shulamit Aloni 

 

" In the situation that exists today, until a Palestinian state is created, we are actually one state, " This joint state... is an arpartheid state"

Former Isreali Ambassador to South Africa Alon liel 

 

" The supreme court could have taken a braver decision, and not relegated us to an arpartheid state "

Zehava Galon former chair of the Meretz party 

 

" On the Palestinian matter (Benjamin Netanyahu's) policies are leading to either a binational state or an arpartheid state "

Meir Dagan former head of Mossad. 

 

Then you retired Isreali army general Amiram Levin stating

 

" West Bank occupation is arpartheid "

 

https://www.thenationalnews.com/mena/2023/08/13/retired-israeli-general-says-west-bank-occupation-is-apartheid/

 

 

 

Then you have Isreal human rights organisations

 

" This is arpartheid "

 

http://www.btselem.org/apartheid

 

These are all just Isreal voices.

 

Human rights organisations and people all over the world know arpartheid when they see it. 

 

And what do you call all those young Isreali men who rampaged through the Muslim quarter of Jerusalem a few days ago, beating up people and shouting " death to Arabs "  ?

If you ended you post with the first couple paragraphs about the evil of Hamas then it would make good sense. Israel is up against a group (Hamas) that wants them to not exist. Again, what exactly is Israel supposed to do with Hamas? 

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

If you ended you post with the first couple paragraphs about the evil of Hamas then it would make good sense. Israel is up against a group (Hamas) that wants them to not exist. Again, what exactly is Israel supposed to do with Hamas? 

 

So let's pretend you are a Palestinian person who has nothing to do with Hamas'. 

 

Would you be happy watching your friends and loved ones killed ?

 

Having no food to give to your kids, let alone yourself, at times.

 

Watching your homes and schools/ community destroyed ?

 

Bottom line, you believe that the events since October 7 are a proportionate response to the events of October 7.

 

I am millions and other with consciences don't.

 

And those numbers are growing. 

 

Even though it won't help the innocent Palestinians now, history will damn Israel for its actions over the last 8 months. 

 

And what should the Palestinians do about Isrealis that don't want them to exist ?

 

You know, Isrealis like the young men who rampaged through the Muslim quarter of Jerusalem a few days ago, shouting " death to Arabs "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So let's pretend you are a Palestinian person who has nothing to do with Hamas'. 

 

Would you be happy watching your friends and loved ones killed ?

 

Having no food to give to your kids, let alone yourself, at times.

 

Watching your homes and schools/ community destroyed ?

 

Bottom line, you believe that the events since October 7 are a proportionate response to the events of October 7.

 

I am millions and other with consciences don't.

 

And those numbers are growing. 

 

Even though it won't help the innocent Palestinians now, history will damn Israel for its actions over the last 8 months. 

 

And what should the Palestinians do about Isrealis that don't want them to exist ?

 

You know, Isrealis like the young men who rampaged through the Muslim quarter of Jerusalem a few days ago, shouting " death to Arabs "

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You still haven’t answered what Israel should do with Hamas on their doorstep? 

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

You still haven’t answered what Israel should do with Hamas on their doorstep? 

 

And you haven't answered any of my questions. 

 

And again Alf, its the means I am criticising, not the ends.  

 

You have heard of cause and effect Alf ?

 

That's why I bring up the past, and current injustices Isreal practices upon the Palestinian people.

 

Stop those injustices, and they won't have a reason to fight/kill Isrealis. 

 

Who is the only poster in this thread, that has posted articles and videos about Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace. 

 

Examples of Isrealis that have had their loved ones killed by Palestinians, not only forgiving them, but  are now helping other Palestinians. 

 

I am Alf.

 

So if I am biased against Isreal why would I post articles about Isrealis helping Palestinians.

Forgiving them for killing the loved ones.

 

What I am biased for is that we are all human beings, that all share a common ancestry.

That we all share this planet together.

That we should not only look after each other, but also all the Flora and Fauna with share this planet with. 

 

I have advocated for this on the old board and this one, time and time again. 

[Alflives]

7 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

And you haven't answered any of my questions. 

 

And again Alf, its the means I am criticising, not the ends.  

 

You have heard of cause and effect Alf ?

 

That's why I bring up the past, and current injustices Isreal practices upon the Palestinian people.

 

Stop those injustices, and they won't have a reason to fight/kill Isrealis. 

 

Who is the only poster in this thread, that has posted articles and videos about Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace. 

 

Examples of Isrealis that have had their loved ones killed by Palestinians, not only forgiving them, but  are now helping other Palestinians. 

 

I am Alf.

 

So if I am biased against Isreal why would I post articles about Isrealis helping Palestinians.

Forgiving them for killing the loved ones.

 

What I am biased for is that we are all human beings, that all share a common ancestry.

That we all share this planet together.

That we should not only look after each other, but also all the Flora and Fauna with share this planet with. 

 

I have advocated for this on the old board and this one, time and time again. 

@Ilunga if you were in charge we’d have no wars. And that would be great. (Please accept this as a compliment, because that’s how it’s meant) Sadly though the world isn’t a perfect place. There’s evil, like Hamas. Israel has Hamas as their neighbour. IMHAO Israel must eliminate Hamas. It’s terrible how accomplishing this end means so many people in Gaza must suffer. But Hamas could surrender too. I just don’t see Hamas doing that though. So the war will continue until Hamas are all dead and (sadly) the people of Gaza will suffer. 
Hopefully I’m wrong and Hamas lays down their arms and Gaza is freed and rebuilt. 

Edited June 8 by Alflives

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@Ilunga if you were in charge we’d have no wars. And that would be great. Sadly though the world isn’t a perfect place. There’s evil, like Hamas. Israel has Hamas as their neighbour. IMHAO Israel must eliminate Hamas. It’s terrible how accomplishing this end means so many people in Gaza must suffer. But Hamas could surrender too. I just don’t see Hamas doing that though. So the war will continue until Hamas are all dead and (sadly) the people of Gaza will suffer. 
Hopefully I’m wrong and Hamas lays down their arms and Gaza is freed and rebuilt. 

 

There are far " better " people than me in this world Alf.

People like Yael Noy.

 

I have posted about her organisation before, Road to Recovery, an organisation that drives very sick Palestinian kids from the west bank, and Gaza before this conflict started, to hospitals in Israel.

 

Yael's parents were in on of the Kibbutz's that was attacked on October 7.

 

" We can't stop - the Isreali woman still helping sick Palestinians "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67592468

 

" I am fighting to be good " she tells me. " I am fighting to stay moral when both sides are in such terrible pain. I am fighting to be the same person I was before "

 

" Something was broken in my heart and I said that I would never talk to people in Gaza again " she tells me. 

 

But after a few days, she decided she couldn't let the attrocities change her.

 

She and most of the road to recovery volunteers continued to drive Palestinians from the west bank to hospitals in Israel for cancer treatment, organ transplants and kidney dialysis. As soon as she can, she says she'll go and collect patients from Gaza again.

 

Yael refuses to dehumanize them, or equate them with Hamas, which is classed as a terrorist organisation in the UK and other countries. 

 

Like us they are victims of Hamas, so I think we should keep on helping them, because it's not their fault, she tells me over the phone. 

 

She worries for the families she knows in Gaza, with winter approaching and so many bombed houses now uninhabitable. 

 

The parents of a six year old child, who'd had a organ transplant, texted one of the Road to Recovery volunteers, saying simply, We are OK, we are going to die here. 

 

Yael is also desperately concerned for two Road to Recovery volunteers, Oded Lifschitz and Chaim Peri, who are still being held hostage by Hamas. 

 

Emotionally, she feels like she is being torn apart. She has uncles and cousins that are adamantly opposed to what she's doing and accuse her of helping Hamas. 

 

And it's not just family members who disapprove. 

 

" When I am driving Palestinians through checkpoints in the west bank, soldiers have asked me, how can I do what I am doing " she tells me. " Other people ask the same question "

 

" It's dangerous to even talk about the suffering of the kids in Gaza - people look at me like I am the enemy," she says through sobs. But I am not doing it for the Palestinians, I am doing it because I want to be a proud Israeli. I believe that whether you're an Isreali, a Palestinian, a Jew or an Arab, people are people. "

 

 

We all make choices about the people we want to be Alf, just like Yael has.

 

I hope that if I was in her position, or the guy that founded Road to Recovery Yuval Roth, that I could be like them.

 

A reminder about the guy that I have already posted about that founded Road to Recovery, Yuval Roth.  His brother was killed by Hamas in 1993, and yet he not only forgave them, he had so much compassion and empathy he helped the most vulnerable Palestinians.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

There are far " better " people than me in this world Alf.

People like Yael Noy.

 

I have posted about her organisation before, Road to Recovery, an organisation that drives very sick Palestinian kids from the west bank, and Gaza before this conflict started, to hospitals in Israel.

 

Yael's parents were in on of the Kibbutz's that was attacked on October 7.

 

" We can't stop - the Isreali woman still helping sick Palestinians "

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-67592468

 

" I am fighting to be good " she tells me. " I am fighting to stay moral when both sides are in such terrible pain. I am fighting to be the same person I was before "

 

" Something was broken in my heart and I said that I would never talk to people in Gaza again " she tells me. 

 

But after a few days, she decided she couldn't let the attrocities change her.

 

She and most of the road to recovery volunteers continued to drive Palestinians from the west bank to hospitals in Israel for cancer treatment, organ transplants and kidney dialysis. As soon as she can, she says she'll go and collect patients from Gaza again.

 

Yael refuses to dehumanize them, or equate them with Hamas, which is classed as a terrorist organisation in the UK and other countries. 

 

Like us they are victims of Hamas, so I think we should keep on helping them, because it's not their fault, she tells me over the phone. 

 

She worries for the families she knows in Gaza, with winter approaching and so many bombed houses now uninhabitable. 

 

The parents of a six year old child, who'd had a organ transplant, texted one of the Road to Recovery volunteers, saying simply, We are OK, we are going to die here. 

 

Yael is also desperately concerned for two Road to Recovery volunteers, Oded Lifschitz and Chaim Peri, who are still being held hostage by Hamas. 

 

Emotionally, she feels like she is being torn apart. She has uncles and cousins that are adamantly opposed to what she's doing and accuse her of helping Hamas. 

 

And it's not just family members who disapprove. 

 

" When I am driving Palestinians through checkpoints in the west bank, soldiers have asked me, how can I do what I am doing " she tells me. " Other people ask the same question "

 

" It's dangerous to even talk about the suffering of the kids in Gaza - people look at me like I am the enemy," she says through sobs. But I am not doing it for the Palestinians, I am doing it because I want to be a proud Israeli. I believe that whether you're an Isreali, a Palestinian, a Jew or an Arab, people are people. "

 

 

We all make choices about the people we want to be Alf, just like Yael has.

 

I hope that if I was in her position, or the guy that founded Road to Recovery Yuval Roth, that I could be like them.

 

A reminder about the guy that I have already posted about that founded Road to Recovery, Yuval Roth.  His brother was killed by Hamas in 1993, and yet he not only forgave them, he had so much compassion and empathy he helped the most vulnerable Palestinians.

The US should have elected Hillary. I remember a photo posted of the moment the US got Bin Laden. It showed the war room at the Whitehouse. Lots of guys gathered around a tv set with live action of the assassination. And Hillary Clinton there in the front row amongst them. The men were all leaning forward and fixated like it was a football game. Hillary had her hand over her mouth and seemed to be aghast at what was happening. People, in those moments, don’t hide who they truly are. The men showed they were natural killers. The woman showed she was a natural nurturer. Maybe the world would be a lot safer if only women can be leaders? 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The US should have elected Hillary. I remember a photo posted of the moment the US got Bin Laden. It showed the war room at the Whitehouse. Lots of guys gathered around a tv set with live action of the assassination. And Hillary Clinton there in the front row amongst them. The men were all leaning forward and fixated like it was a football game. Hillary had her hand over her mouth and seemed to be aghast at what was happening. People, in those moments, don’t hide who they truly are. The men showed they were natural killers. The woman showed she was a natural nurturer. Maybe the world would be a lot safer if only women can be leaders? 

 

Yes I agree.

While there have been some " good " male leaders, I believe more women should take on leadership roles.

 

Do you know much about Jacinta Ardern ?

Ex New Zealand PM.

 

She was known for her kindness and empathy.

 

Like all of us she was not perfect, but when it mattered her humanity was what shined through.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jan/19/from-stardust-to-an-empty-tank-one-of-a-kind-leader-jacinda-ardern-knew-her-time-was-up

 

Edit.

 

You have just shown who you truly are.

To pick up on the fact that a person expressed their horror at watching a person die, even when that person " deserved " to die, as opposed to others watching it, as you say like a football game.

 

Well that tells me a lot about the sort of person you are. 

A person with humanity.

Edited June 8 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

11 hours ago, RomanPer said:

@Canuck Surfer @Alflives why do you guys even bother? You will get back a bunch of opinion links presented as “facts” and eventually be called something you are not.

 

You are a liar.

 

I don't just post only  opinion pieces.

 

Many of the articles I post are about factual information. 

 

Just like the New York Times article that debunked your BS greenhouse myth claim. 

 

Again reporting about factual events that happened Roman.

 

It wasn't the New York Times opinion that Isreali settlers demolished about half the greenhouses in Gaza.

Those settlers actually demolished those greenhouses.  

 

 

" Isreali settlers demolish greenhouses and Gaza Jobs "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/world/middleeast/israeli-settlers-demolish-greenhouses-and-gaza-jobs.html

 

 

[RomanPer]

17 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

You are a liar.

 

I don't just post only  opinion pieces.

 

Many of the articles I post are about factual information. 

 

Just like the New York Times article that debunked your BS greenhouse myth claim. 

 

Again reporting about factual events that happened Roman.

 

It wasn't the New York Times opinion that Isreali settlers demolished about half the greenhouses in Gaza.

Those settlers actually demolished those greenhouses.  

 

 

" Isreali settlers demolish greenhouses and Gaza Jobs "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/15/world/middleeast/israeli-settlers-demolish-greenhouses-and-gaza-jobs.html

 

 

 

Keep on believing your own imaginary world you live in…

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

Keep on believing your own imaginary world you live in…

 

See and now you say things like this.

 

Either come out and say the New York Times was lying, and provide evidence to back up your claim.

 

That's the thing, most of the time, you don't provide evidence to back up your claims.

 

You just try and discredit me, with, ironically, your opinion.

[Sharpshooter]

Please don’t attack each other personally. 
 

Attack the post, not the poster. 
 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

What's going on here?

 

Just of note activity by mercenaries in this area is subsidiary to Asaad, Iran, Hezbollah & Hamas normally, but not necessarily in that order & also including Turkey.  

 

Why Ukraine is involved, aside from it being fun, @RomanPer (?) , is a bit beyond me.  Perhaps they can steal, or hijack, divert enough profits & weapons Wagner expropriates towards Ukraine being involved... To save Ukrainian lives.  Cutting the supply chain umbilical cord, so to speak.

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Where's Noah?

 

Home...

 

  

[Canuck Surfer]

The opposition party has said, mentioned in an earlier video posted, they would prop up Bibi if he went against his RW cabinet and signed a peace deal.

 

Had given Netanyahu a June 8 deadline to have a two state action plan.  There is still movement within Israeli politics to accomplish this!

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

The opposition party has said, mentioned in an earlier video posted, they would prop up Bibi if he went against his RW cabinet and signed a peace deal.

 

Had given Netanyahu a June 8 deadline to have a two state action plan.  There is still movement within Israeli politics to accomplish this!

 

 

 

I know people like to speak in absolutes around this conflict, but a lot can change in a hurry politically.

 

[RomanPer]

7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

What's going on here?

 

Just of note activity by mercenaries in this area is subsidiary to Asaad, Iran, Hezbollah & Hamas normally, but not necessarily in that order & also including Turkey.  

 

Why Ukraine is involved, aside from it being fun, @RomanPer (?) , is a bit beyond me.  Perhaps they can steal, or hijack, divert enough profits & weapons Wagner expropriates towards Ukraine being involved... To save Ukrainian lives.  Cutting the supply chain umbilical cord, so to speak.

 

 

 

Ukraine’s special forces started hunting Russian military in various locations in the world (in Africa also). Just to minimize Russian ability to wage war in general.

[bishopshodan]

Israel says it only uses White Phosphorus as a smoke screen. Is that ok? It can burn human flesh to the bone. Cant they use smoke for their smoke screens instead?

 

What are the rules for this nasty stuff?

Seems they use it now and again and human rights groups are not happy. 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/human-rights-watch-alleges-israel-used-white-phosphorus-in-residential-areas-in-lebanon/

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Israel says it only uses White Phosphorus as a smoke screen. Is that ok? It can burn human flesh to the bone. Cant they use smoke for their smoke screens instead?

 

What are the rules for this nasty stuff?

Seems they use it now and again and human rights groups are not happy. 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/human-rights-watch-alleges-israel-used-white-phosphorus-in-residential-areas-in-lebanon/

 

its like the use of cluster bombs in Ukraine... dunno b, are there rules?

[bishopshodan]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

its like the use of cluster bombs in Ukraine... dunno b, are there rules?

 

Is that Russia doing that or Ukr?

 

I thought there were rules.

I understand the reduction of international support for the countries that may ignore the human rights parameters.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Is that Russia doing that or Ukr?

 

both, the US is supplying cluster bombs to Ukraine. 

 

1 minute ago, bishopshodan said:

I thought there were rules.

I understand the reduction of international support for the countries that may ignore the human rights parameters.

 

I guess my point is, rules only apply if you can win without having to break them, but any power will if need be. 

 

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

both, the US is supplying cluster bombs to Ukraine. 

 

 

I guess my point is, rules only apply if you can win without having to break them, but any power will if need be. 

 

 

I would think the rules were there to learn from past confilcts and reduce harm to civilians/innocents. 

 

I dont think this is the first time Israel has used WP in urban areas. I dont think they are 'allowed' to use them at all. Their excuse is that they are just using it a smoke screens, so not denying it.

But, if all bets are off... conflicts might as well be full Machiavellian, by any means necessary ? 

 

Is there anywhere the line should be drawn?

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I would think the rules were there to learn from past confilcts and reduce harm to civilians/innocents. 

 

I dont think this is the first time Israel has used WP in urban areas. I dont think they are 'allowed' to use them at all. Their excuse is that they are just using it a smoke screens, so not denying it.

But, if all bets are off... conflicts might as well be full Machiavellian, by any means necessary ? 

 

Is there anywhere the line should be drawn?

 

allowed by who though? what consequences will there actually be? Syria gassed its own citizens, what actually changed there?

 

this sad shit will come to an end at some point, hopefully soon. But if we really had rules we wouldn't be where we are now.

 

Edited June 8 by Bob Long

[bishopshodan]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

allowed by who though? what consequences will there actually be? Syria gassed its own citizens, what actually changed there?

 

this sad shit will come to an end at some point, hopefully soon. But if we really had rules we wouldn't be where we are now.

 

 

Human rights groups, international bodies etc... ( not that they apparently get paid attention to)  Do UKR and Israel deserve the same international respect as Syria? maybe they should be seen in the same light?

 

So again, I just say...I understand the reduction of international support for the countries that may ignore the human rights parameters

 

Nobody should be surprised at all the protests, nobody should be surprised at the diminishing respect and support for Israel.

 

I see a lot of ripping of the protesters etc in this thread but I dont see too much comendation of an act like the the use of WP for example. 

Your take is, everyone does something offside, look at UKR. It makes sense but I just would like to see a bit more equal, honest convo.

 

i think the thread title should be changed. I think we are 200+ days into this conflict. Both sides are 'attacking' not just the terrorists that started this recent mess.