Elias Pettersson Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Ilunga said: You haven't answered my question. If you believe the stories/allegories about Jesus, which you do, he was a teacher. He may or may not intervene in this situation if he is actually real and was here today. That my opinion. I am asking you for your opinion on what his talking points would be if he was a member of this forum. Talking about one class being asked a few questions ? Or talking about tens of thousands of children killed, injured and missing. And hundreds of thousands of children, psychology, emotionally and in some cases physically damaged for life ? You are trying to minimize a discussion we are having in our local area about how a teacher is handling the situation with their pupils and asking 11-year-olds questions that should not be asked. Asking an 11-year-old if Israel has the right to exist is wrong and should never happen, period. The fact that there were Jewish kids in that class makes it 1000x worse. Why do you continue to spin this obvious malfeasance by defending the actions of this teacher while simultaneously bringing up the horrors of what is happening to the children in Gaza? Why can't we have a conversation on both issues? Why is it only one or the other with you? Can you explain that? Jesus would most definitely have allowed all of us to be able to speak about many different horrors in this world without trying to minimize one over the other. Also, Jesus most definitely would be holding Hamas accountable for the thousands of deaths in Gaza, he wouldn't be putting the blame solely on Israel. He would be asking for peace from BOTH sides. So why is Hamas still fighting? Why have they not laid down their arms? Why do they continually talk about "the river to the sea", which means the destruction of Israel? Do you think Jesus would have tolerated such evil and picked the Hamas side over Israel? Edited June 10 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 9 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I would love to. And while I will do this, this subject is at the heart of both this conflict, and this discussion. As I have stated, many of the regular contributors to this discussion have rationalised, what cannot be rationalised by anyone with an ounce of humanity. Harming children. I think you are misinformed. Many Members are very concerned about every child, whether on the Palestinian side or the Israeli side. I think there’s a personal bias in play. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: You are trying to minimize a discussion we are having in our local area about how a teacher is handling the situation with their pupils and asking 11-year-olds questions that should not be asked. Asking an 11-year-old if Israel has the right to exist is wrong and should never happen, period. The fact that there were Jewish kids in that class makes it 1000x worse. Why do you continue to spin this obvious malfeasance by defending the actions of this teacher while simultaneously bringing up the horrors of what is happening to the children in Gaza? Why can't we have a conversation on both issues? Why is it only one or the other with you? Can you explain that? Jesus would most definitely have allowed all of us to be able to speak about many different horrors in this world without trying to minimize one over the other. Also, Jesus most definitely would be holding Hamas accountable for the thousands of deaths in Gaza, he wouldn't be putting the blame solely on Israel. He would be asking for peace from BOTH sides. So why is Hamas still fighting? Why have they not laid down their arms? Why do they continually talk about "the river to the sea", which means the destruction of Israel? Do you think Jesus would have tolerated such evil and picked the Hamas side over Israel? I am not trying to minimise anything. I asked you a simple question. I will openly state what I believe is a far more important issue. What is has, and is happening to the children in Gaza for the last 8 months. Especially when compared to a test/questionnaire in one classroom. To call a questionnaire a horror is... words fail me. To even equate those two issues is beyond ridiculous. And when is advocating for the rights of innocent children, advocating for Hamas'. As that article @UnkNuk posted in the God thread pointed out. What Christians practice, and what they are actually taught to practise are two totally different things. No offence brother, but if what you believe happens to be true you are in for a rude awakening in the afterlife, if what we were taught in school happens to be true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 18 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I would love to. And while I will do this, this subject is at the heart of both this conflict, and this discussion. As I have stated, many of the regular contributors to this discussion have rationalised, what cannot be rationalised by anyone with an ounce of humanity. Harming children. I can't speak for everyone, but I'd be shocked if even one person in this thread doesn't care about the children in Gaza. Or in Israel for that matter. The fact that you even bring this up as a talking point is quite disturbing to say the least. I think the passion inside of you is speaking, I don't think you actually really believe what you just said my friend. Do you not think that Hamas is just as responsible for the deaths of thousands of children in Gaza as Israel is? Why are you trying to paint the picture that Israel is solely responsible for the horrors in Gaza? As Alf has already stated, "war is war". There are no winners in war. Only losers. The winner of the war is simply the side that loses the least. IMO, Israel should agree to a ceasefire immediately, as long as Hamas is also in agreement. Let the UN step in and figure things out. Enough is enough. No more deaths. That's how I feel about it. But it takes two sides to stop. I don't see Hamas stopping what they are doing. And even if they did, their sole agenda is "the river to the sea", so eventually they will start a new war. It will never end. Getting rid of Hamas is the only way to permanently end this war. And I also agree that Bibi needs to go as well. They should vote him out of power as soon as they are able to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 14 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said: I think you are misinformed. Many Members are very concerned about every child, whether on the Palestinian side or the Israeli side. I think there’s a personal bias in play. Yeah a bias for what is happening to hundreds of thousands of children in Gaza. A post about a questionnaire generated a few pages of faux rage and a discussion about how it is good for a child to travel. Bring up the actual facts about what is happening to the children in Gaza, and I have been accused of supporting terrorists. Of repeating Hamas talking points. That it is all Hamas' fault. Like who the fuck cares whose fault it is, just stop hurting the children in Gaza. I don't know about you, but when I see footage of what is happening to those kids it makes me think about, what if that was Lachlan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 6 minutes ago, Ilunga said: I am not trying to minimise anything. I asked you a simple question. I will openly state what I believe is a far more important issue. What is has, and is happening to the children in Gaza for the last 8 months. Especially when compared to a test/questionnaire in one classroom. To call a questionnaire a horror is... words fail me. To even equate those two issues is beyond ridiculous. And when is advocating for the rights of innocent children, advocating for Hamas'. As that article @UnkNuk posted in the God thread pointed out. What Christians practice, and what they are actually taught to practise are two totally different things. No offence brother, but if what you believe happens to be true you are in for a rude awakening in the afterlife, if what we were taught in school happens to be true. I never compared a questionnaire to kids dying in Gaza, those are your words not mine. When I said "horrors", I was referencing all horrors, I wasn't pinpointing a questionnaire in a school as a horror. As for the afterlife, I have a different view of it than other people, probably you as well. Hell is what we are experiencing now. Heaven is the place we go to after experiencing hell. I don't think any one of us will really be punished in the afterlife. It is just a place where we go back home and review all the lessons we learned on this earth. Some have more learning to do than others it seems... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 13 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I can't speak for everyone, but I'd be shocked if even one person in this thread doesn't care about the children in Gaza. Or in Israel for that matter. The fact that you even bring this up as a talking point is quite disturbing to say the least. I think the passion inside of you is speaking, I don't think you actually really believe what you just said my friend. Do you not think that Hamas is just as responsible for the deaths of thousands of children in Gaza as Israel is? Why are you trying to paint the picture that Israel is solely responsible for the horrors in Gaza? As Alf has already stated, "war is war". There are no winners in war. Only losers. The winner of the war is simply the side that loses the least. IMO, Israel should agree to a ceasefire immediately, as long as Hamas is also in agreement. Let the UN step in and figure things out. Enough is enough. No more deaths. That's how I feel about it. But it takes two sides to stop. I don't see Hamas stopping what they are doing. And even if they did, their sole agenda is "the river to the sea", so eventually they will start a new war. It will never end. Getting rid of Hamas is the only way to permanently end this war. And I also agree that Bibi needs to go as well. They should vote him out of power as soon as they are able to. As I just replied to Sharpie. When I have brought up what is happening to the Children in Gaza, I have been accused of supporting terrorists. Of echoing Hamas' taking points. Does that sound like people who care about what is happening to the kids in Gaza ? And again who fuckin cares whose fault it is. Just stop hurting children..... period. That's what my moral compass tells me. No ifs, buts whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: I never compared a questionnaire to kids dying in Gaza, those are your words not mine. When I said "horrors", I was referencing all horrors, I wasn't pinpointing a questionnaire in a school as a horror. As for the afterlife, I have a different view of it than other people, probably you as well. Hell is what we are experiencing now. Heaven is the place we go to after experiencing hell. I don't think any one of us will really be punished in the afterlife. It is just a place where we go back home and review all the lessons we learned on this earth. Some have more learning to do than others it seems... You think you or I live in hell, what would you call the situation in Gaza ? At my age, I live my " golden rule " to, almost, perfection. I treat others the way I wish to be treated myself. Especially when, sometimes those around me, haven't treated me the way they would like to be treated themselves. When it's the hardest. I am talking about my ex. Again, people may think Israel is getting away with its crimes against humanity, however history always catches up with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 36 minutes ago, Ilunga said: As I just replied to Sharpie. When I have brought up what is happening to the Children in Gaza, I have been accused of supporting terrorists. Of echoing Hamas' taking points. Does that sound like people who care about what is happening to the kids in Gaza ? And again who fuckin cares whose fault it is. Just stop hurting children..... period. That's what my moral compass tells me. No ifs, buts whatever. I agree with this statement. So how do we accomplish this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 24 minutes ago, Ilunga said: You think you or I live in hell, what would you call the situation in Gaza ? At my age, I live my " golden rule " to, almost, perfection. I treat others the way I wish to be treated myself. Especially when, sometimes those around me, haven't treated me the way they would like to be treated themselves. When it's the hardest. I am talking about my ex. Again, people may think Israel is getting away with its crimes against humanity, however history always catches up with you. Hamas has also committed crimes against humanity. In the end, neither side will get away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 5 hours ago, Bob Long said: @RomanPer what is your take on Gantz? Do you think that this could lead to a new government? The biggest issue in Israeli politics is “proportional representation”. So, it’s doesn’t really matter who will try to be a PM - they will have to form a coalition with a wide array of political spectrum. As a result of it, some small parties will have too much power and will be able to topple the government if they’re don’t like something. Gantz or someone else - it doesn’t really matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, Sharpshooter said: Come on bud. Israeli Forces killed scores of innocent noncombatants, ie, regular people. I know I can argue out of the both sides of my mouth on this topic, and I have, but, this was a tragedy upon a tragedy, upon a good feel moment. Sorry, bud, but what the hostages were doing in the civilian house in the first place? The moment they housed the hostages, they stopped being civilians. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: I agree with this statement. So how do we accomplish this? Pressure Isreal to abide by International Humanitarian Law. You know the Law that 196 countries, including mine, yours and Israel are signortories to. This is an opinion piece. Check out the Author, long family ties to Israel. How his family played an important part in the formation of Israel, and their ongoing commitment to Israel. His history of war reporting. " I'm a Jew and I've covered wars. I know war crimes when I see them. " https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2024/04/09/israel-gaza-war-crimes-genocide/ " As I watched an agonizing video from Gaza not long ago. The video shows a grandmother Hala Khreis, trying to leave a neighbourhood that Israeli forces are surrounding. Walking tentatively she holds the hand of her grandson who is five years old and carries a white flag. Suddenly a shot rings out and she crumples to the ground dead. " This guy has longer and stronger ties to Israel than certainly anyone on this board. He has covered/ been in war zones, including a war zone that is classed as a genocide. Why does he make these claims Elias ? I think his great great grandad had the right idea. " For example in the May 21, 1917 edition of the New York Times, a headline read, Mr Schiff not for Zionism. He would establish a Jewish population, not a nation in Palestine. This story is about my great- great grandfather, Jacob Schiff, the gilded age financier who bankrolled efforts to help persecuted Jews flee Europe. The idealistic non Zionist goal was for jews who were settling in Palestine to make a deal with the Arabs already living there that would not give either side complete control of the government. Two decades later in 1936, my great grandfather Felix Warburg, who had married Schiff's daughter accurately warned that establishing a Jewish state would lead to bloody heads and misfortune. " Instead of Jewish state, a joint state. Just as I have been advocating for from the start. Imagine how many lives this would have saved. The suffering that would have been prevented. How many years of BS do we have to put up with from this part of the world. If you believe that the state of Israel is worth one life, would you sacrifice the life of your child in the name of that state ? Same for a Palestinian state. At this point I say fuck them both, in regards to having their own state. They should both be forced by a superior force to sit down and work their differences out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Hamas has also committed crimes against humanity. In the end, neither side will get away with it. Who has argued that Hamas' hasn't committed war crimes. I have actually brought up the fact that they have committed crimes against humanity long before October 7. And yes have history will damn those Hamas' scum who have killed, raped and fucked with any Isreali in any way. I am hoping they get what is coming to them sooner than in a history book. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D.B Cooper Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 7 hours ago, Ilunga said: Yeah a bias for what is happening to hundreds of thousands of children in Gaza. A post about a questionnaire generated a few pages of faux rage and a discussion about how it is good for a child to travel. Bring up the actual facts about what is happening to the children in Gaza, and I have been accused of supporting terrorists. Of repeating Hamas talking points. That it is all Hamas' fault. Like who the fuck cares whose fault it is, just stop hurting the children in Gaza. I don't know about you, but when I see footage of what is happening to those kids it makes me think about, what if that was Lachlan. Holy fuck dude. Everyone is concerned about the children. Why are you still spamming this thread? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 8 hours ago, RomanPer said: The biggest issue in Israeli politics is “proportional representation”. So, it’s doesn’t really matter who will try to be a PM - they will have to form a coalition with a wide array of political spectrum. As a result of it, some small parties will have too much power and will be able to topple the government if they’re don’t like something. Gantz or someone else - it doesn’t really matter. Proportional representation is inherently destabilizing. Advocates for it in Canada should think it thru. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 8 hours ago, RomanPer said: The biggest issue in Israeli politics is “proportional representation”. So, it’s doesn’t really matter who will try to be a PM - they will have to form a coalition with a wide array of political spectrum. As a result of it, some small parties will have too much power and will be able to topple the government if they’re don’t like something. Gantz or someone else - it doesn’t really matter. Just wondering you think this could end up being the end of Netanyahus run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolt Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 10 hours ago, Ilunga said: Yeah a bias for what is happening to hundreds of thousands of children in Gaza. A post about a questionnaire generated a few pages of faux rage and a discussion about how it is good for a child to travel. Bring up the actual facts about what is happening to the children in Gaza, and I have been accused of supporting terrorists. Of repeating Hamas talking points. That it is all Hamas' fault. Like who the fuck cares whose fault it is, just stop hurting the children in Gaza. I don't know about you, but when I see footage of what is happening to those kids it makes me think about, what if that was Lachlan. The barbarians of Hamas must stop hiding hostages in civilian zones. Release them. The barbarians of Hamas must stop firing rockets intentionally from schools. The barbarians of Hamas must stop throwing LGBQ people off buildings. The barbarians of Hamas must stop blowing themselves including children up. The barbarians of Hamas must stop indoctrinating their school system with terrorism glorification Edited June 10 by bolt 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrayDog Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 (edited) 7 hours ago, D.B Cooper said: Holy fuck dude. Everyone is concerned about the children. Why are you still spamming this thread? Moral superiority Edited June 10 by StrayDog typo 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 On the topic of the hostage rescue I think its fair to say any civilian casualty from that operation falls squarely on Hamas If Israel had the opportunity to rescue its hostages, and those hostages were being held in civilian homes by Hamas, Israel had the moral imperative to try to rescue their 4 innocent civilians I am glad theyre home safe 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said: On the topic of the hostage rescue I think its fair to say any civilian casualty from that operation falls squarely on Hamas If Israel had the opportunity to rescue its hostages, and those hostages were being held in civilian homes by Hamas, Israel had the moral imperative to try to rescue their 4 innocent civilians I am glad theyre home safe For me, the fact that it was a reporter and a doctor holding the hostages in their homes adds another level of scum to the whole thing. Guaranteed that these POS end up on a list being used to show how Israel stifles reporters and medical treatment. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 22 hours ago, Ilunga said: So how are you meant to vote out Hamas when they haven't held elections since they were elected in 2006 ? Here is a factual timeline of events in relation to " politics " elections, Fatah - Hamas since 2006. https://www.usip.org/palestinian-politics-timeline-2006-election The Palestinians have protested a few times since Hamas gained power. It has been for economic reasons. But bottom line they still haven't had elections. And what viable alternative do they have. As we all know, Hamas is a terrorist organisation that hasn't/won't let its grip on power go. And as I have pointed out before, support for any leaders in any country in times of war increase, especially if that country is being attacked. I will ask you the same question I have asked others who challenge the Palestinians to get rid of Hamas'. If you were a Palestinian would you fight a well armed terrorist organisation ? Would you risk your life and the lives of your of family ? Would you sacrifice your life if it meant that Hamas' was eradicated ? You haven't dealt with the point that I brought up. Why do so many Isrealis themselves state that Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? The reason there haven't been elections since 2006, is that every voting poll keeps showing large gains for Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority - who is run by Fatah - cancels the elections every time. Even Fatah was set to be ousted by a breakaway group of Fatah that wanted immediate armed resistance. Polls indicate that if an election were to be held, Marwan Barghouti, who calls for an immediate 3rd Intifada, would likely take over for Fatah. The options would be then between a religious military campaign, in Hamas, or a secular one, with Barghouti. There's never been any indication that the Palestinian people are prepared to vote for anything but war. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inkidu Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, HarbularyBattery said: On the topic of the hostage rescue I think its fair to say any civilian casualty from that operation falls squarely on Hamas If Israel had the opportunity to rescue its hostages, and those hostages were being held in civilian homes by Hamas, Israel had the moral imperative to try to rescue their 4 innocent civilians I am glad theyre home safe I hear the most prevalent feeling around the world is one of disappointment they were rescued. I don't know why I ever expect otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 minutes ago, Taxi said: The reason there haven't been elections since 2006, is that every voting poll keeps showing large gains for Hamas, and the Palestinian Authority - who is run by Fatah - cancels the elections every time. Even Fatah was set to be ousted by a breakaway group of Fatah that wanted immediate armed resistance. Polls indicate that if an election were to be held, Marwan Barghouti, who calls for an immediate 3rd Intifada, would likely take over for Fatah. The options would be then between a religious military campaign, in Hamas, or a secular one, with Barghouti. There's never been any indication that the Palestinian people are prepared to vote for anything but war. I assume youre including the caveat that they've spent 75 years being thrown out of their homes, attacked, bombed, occupied, and blockaded, so their belief that peaceful resistance gets them nowhere can be understood Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarbularyBattery Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 minute ago, Inkidu said: I hear the most prevalent feeling around the world is one of disappointment they were rescued. I don't know why I ever expect otherwise. in my opinion a rational (objective) person: - despises hamas for being murderous cowards over and over again, siphoning billions of dollars in aid money and using it to deliberately target innocent israeli civilians - despises the way Israel has treated Palestinians for the past 75 years, including but not limited to stealing their land, as well as bombing and starving them a person who only feels one is probably just being tribal about it all 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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