Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

There’s criticism and there’re blatant lies or misinformation.

that’s the thing - every single pro-Palestine rally includes these calls. We had a quiet vigil here on Sunday and there was a group of Palestinian youth screaming “Death to Jews” and other similar things and police just stood there, telling us that they are entitled to their opinion. When we pressed about “uttering threats”, we were told that it’ll be very hard to prosecute.

 

That's incorrect.

 

I am very happy to state that the protest in my home town, well city on the other side of the hill was peaceful, and people weren't engaging in racist chants or threats to Isrealis/ Jews 

 

https://amp.9news.com.au/article/0bde9b53-b167-4cb0-992b-51e86c7ac5fa

 

 

 

 

[RomanPer]

My daughter is devastated. She got confirmation that 2 of her friends from a Jewish camp upstate New York from 10 years ago attended the music festival and now confirmed dead. In addition, the girls who was shown countless times on TV, being taken to Gaza on the bike, crying and screaming to her boyfriend, who was being led by the terrorists (Noa Argamani) is a roommate of another one of her friends.

[Ilunga]

 

The organisers of the Sydney protest have condemned the members of the protest who were uttering those vile chants.

Stating it was just a few teens.

 

 

https://www.aap.com.au/news/pro-palestine-protest-organiser-deplored-jewish-slurs/

 

As for the NSW opposition leaders comments that Isreal is a real example of liberal democracy in the middle east, he obviously is not informed as to what Netanyahu has been up to for the last few years.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, RomanPer said:

 

There was a case on Sunday after our vigil. 2 Jewish women were leaving the vigil on their own. They were followed by 2 Palestinian youth who jumped them and it was just pure luck that a male friend of one of the ladies was nearby and was able to jump in long enough for police to arrive. Police arrested both youth and found on them 2 knifes and a bear spray. Because they were high school students, they were release the next morning.

 

Wow, so basically there are youth living in Vancouver that have been radicalized?  That's some scary shit...

[Ilunga]

9 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

My daughter is devastated. She got confirmation that 2 of her friends from a Jewish camp upstate New York from 10 years ago attended the music festival and now confirmed dead. In addition, the girls who was shown countless times on TV, being taken to Gaza on the bike, crying and screaming to her boyfriend, who was being led by the terrorists (Noa Argamani) is a roommate of another one of her friends.

 

Of fuck Roman, I am so sorry to hear this.

Please give your daughter a hug from me.

[CBH1926]

34 minutes ago, Provost said:

if you go back in the thread you will also see a few sample links of Israeli senior government ministers (regularly and well before these attacks) leading marches of tens of thousands of Israelis and shouting death to Palestinians and to burn their villages.    Just google Flag Day marches.

 

That isn’t random civilians on the streets… that is their government policy from their leaders.  
 

Folks are selectively outraged.  

Religious zealots or in this case hardcore zionists trying to provoke Arabs is wrong and should be condemned. I do have more understanding for people living in the war zone being raised in hateful environment.
 

Living in Australia, presumably some or most being born there, I would think that people wouldn’t be so hateful. Ovens, use of gas, burning etc. are very sensitive topic to Jews. Kind of like hanging nooses around black folks here in the U.S

 

One thing is certain though, when you put together far left, far right and Islamic fundamentalists together, they really don’t share too many similar views. Well except one and that is the intense hatred of the Jews. 

[Junkyard Dog]

Israel informs Palestinians to move toward the southern Gaza Strip within 24 hours. That was about 6-7 hours ago I believe. Reuters report was 6 hours ago.  
 

Looks like soon we may see ground invasion. Perhaps around this evening to us and within the first few hours after midnight in Gaza. 
 

Hopefully nothing crazy happens tomorrow or onwards with the Former Leader’s call for mobilization. So far so good. 

[King Heffy]

17 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

My daughter is devastated. She got confirmation that 2 of her friends from a Jewish camp upstate New York from 10 years ago attended the music festival and now confirmed dead. In addition, the girls who was shown countless times on TV, being taken to Gaza on the bike, crying and screaming to her boyfriend, who was being led by the terrorists (Noa Argamani) is a roommate of another one of her friends.

That's absolutely heartbreaking.  I can't even find the words to convey my condolences to you and your family satisfactorily. 

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Religious zealots or in this case hardcore zionists trying to provoke Arabs is wrong and should be condemned. I do have more understanding for people living in the war zone being raised in hateful environment.
 

Living in Australia, presumably some or most being born there, I would think that people wouldn’t be so hateful. Ovens, use of gas, burning etc. are very sensitive topic to Jews. Kind of like hanging nooses around black folks here in the U.S

 

One thing is certain though, when you put together far left, far right and Islamic fundamentalists together, they really don’t share too many similar views. Well except one and that is the intense hatred of the Jews. 

 

This is not an excuse simply a statement of fact.

Teenagers do stupid sh!t.

In the article I posted, the leaders of the rally condemned those teenagers stating they were disgusted and deplored their actions.

 

Of course the media will focus on the actions of a few idiots.

[24K]

4 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

Israel informs Palestinians to move toward the southern Gaza Strip within 24 hours. That was about 6-7 hours ago I believe. Reuters report was 6 hours ago.  
 

Looks like soon we may see ground invasion. Perhaps around this evening to us and within the first few hours after midnight in Gaza. 
 

Hopefully nothing crazy happens tomorrow or onwards with the Former Leader’s call for mobilization. So far so good. 

The goal is to 'evacuate' 1.1 million people in under 24 hours with roads already filled with rubble. This ain't gonna end pretty. 

 

UN already stated it is impossible. 

[Ilunga]

I think this just became personal for all of us.

A member of our community has been directly impacted by the actions of these F# kin nutbags. 

 

Whatever our views on this are, I hope we all support Roman at this time.

[Provost]

26 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

Religious zealots or in this case hardcore zionists trying to provoke Arabs is wrong and should be condemned. I do have more understanding for people living in the war zone being raised in hateful environment.
 

Living in Australia, presumably some or most being born there, I would think that people wouldn’t be so hateful. Ovens, use of gas, burning etc. are very sensitive topic to Jews. Kind of like hanging nooses around black folks here in the U.S

 

One thing is certain though, when you put together far left, far right and Islamic fundamentalists together, they really don’t share too many similar views. Well except one and that is the intense hatred of the Jews. 

Just to be absolutely clear… those religious zealots and hardcore Zionist’s are the actual elected government of Israel.

 

Believe it or not, one can be against Israeli policy and aggressive zionism and not hate Jews.  There are many Jews who hold those same views.  

 

You can also support Palestinian statehood and return of their illegally occupied lands, and even understand how some of them can be radicalized, but still find targeting civilians in attacks deplorable.

 

If you can’t hold all those thoughts in your head at the same time, you probably don’t have a grasp of what is going on.

[Elias Pettersson]

So, Gaza media is telling them not to evacuate because it is all propaganda, even though the UN said it was real?  Does Gaza media want these people left behind on purpose?

 

 

[CBH1926]

15 minutes ago, Provost said:

Just to be absolutely clear… those religious zealots and hardcore Zionist’s are the actual elected government of Israel.

 

Believe it or not, one can be against Israeli policy and aggressive zionism and not hate Jews.  There are many Jews who hold those same views.  

 

You can also support Palestinian statehood and return of their illegally occupied lands, and even understand how some of them can be radicalized, but still find targeting civilians in attacks deplorable.

 

If you can’t hold all those thoughts in your head at the same time, you probably don’t have a grasp of what is going on.

And to be absolutely clear, Hamas was elected by the Palestinians.

Same Hamas whose members massacred hundreds of civilians.

Some of them really had to get their hands bloody this past week.

 

 

 

 

[24K]

40 minutes ago, CBH1926 said:

And to be absolutely clear, Hamas was elected by the Palestinians.

Same Hamas whose members massacred hundreds of civilians.

Some of them really had to get their hands bloody this past week.

 

 

 

 

Hamas was elected once back in 2006 at which point control of Gaza was given to them. They never held an election since. 2006 is almost 2 decades ago. It is not like Palestinians voted them into power a year or two ago. Given the average age of people in gaza is 18, that is a whole generation or two that have nothing to do with that election that put Hamas in power.

 

Israel on the other hand elected a far right nationalist gonvernment just last year defeating a more moderate coalition. Not to mention Bibi for all those elections prior who definitely had a hand in continously poking the bear. 

Edited October 13, 2023 by 24K

[Canuck Surfer]

15 hours ago, JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo said:

It wasn't a lie as much as it was a misunderstanding and poor journalism. A reporter was talking to a soldier who mentioned dead babies, and people that were beheaded, and the reporter misheard and reported babies were being beheaded. A number of media organizations ran with the story with sensationalist headlines despite having the actual quotes of the soldier being interviewed. 

 

There were interviews with first responders and residents that said it was true. What was absolutely true is whole families were killed in their homes. Or running from them. Grandparents, teenagers, parents kids & babies. As well as the revellers at the music Rave.  The goal was to slaughter whomever.

 

Unfortunately honest? This method may remove all pain much faster than many types of deaths.

 

I posted a U tube video of a dad, in his grief, who declared dead was a blessing for his daughter compared to what occurs to most captives? 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

7 hours ago, eeeeeeeeergh said:

 

If I had to guess, it’s more about keeping Chechnya happy and on side with Russia, which has been achieved.

 

This question was already answered in the post you responded to?  I do not believe it is more complex at all. 

 

8 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Russia only advocates for things they get a cut on, have a vested interest. 

 

You think Russia props up Kadyrov's regime on moral grounds?  I would think you maybe were lucky enough to get free land in Grozny twenty years ago. Moved in just as the entire population was depopulated, the city obliterated & incinerated to the ground. Putin supports Kadryov because he is complicit, and because he gets a cut. 

 

Status quo is not good for Chechnya's people?  The region has the poorest people in all of the former Soviet republics; average wage just $383 US / month.  Even poorer than Eastern republics. Chechen people are stable because they don't have a choice. Its ruled with an iron fist.

[Playoff Beered]

2 hours ago, Provost said:

Just to be absolutely clear… those religious zealots and hardcore Zionist’s are the actual elected government of Israel.

 

Believe it or not, one can be against Israeli policy and aggressive zionism and not hate Jews.  There are many Jews who hold those same views.  

 

You can also support Palestinian statehood and return of their illegally occupied lands, and even understand how some of them can be radicalized, but still find targeting civilians in attacks deplorable.

 

If you can’t hold all those thoughts in your head at the same time, you probably don’t have a grasp of what is going on.

 

Implying this is the official stance of the elected government isn't honest, there's 18? different parties in the Knesset at the moment. Some of them are very right wing and militant, others are more progressive. Like every thing else in the Middle East, it's complicated. Or as you put it, If you can’t hold all those thoughts in your head at the same time, you probably don’t have a grasp of what is going on.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel

 

 

Edited October 13, 2023 by Playoff Beered

[Canuck Surfer]

In a secular world?

 

Modi & India don't seem supportive of Muslim Palestine? Call me not surprised.  LOL, cheering for Christian Israel...

 

https://thewire.in/world/rooting-for-israel-not-a-good-word-about-palestine-modi-is-upending-indian-foreign-policy

 

https://thewire.in/politics/nagaland-bjp-leader-invites-criticism-ridicule-for-calling-israel-a-christian-country

 

 

 

 

[MatchesMalone]

Lol I should really stay out of this.

Edited October 13, 2023 by MatchesMalone

[Provost]

2 hours ago, Playoff Beered said:

 

Implying this is the official stance of the elected government isn't honest, there's 18? different parties in the Knesset at the moment. Some of them are very right wing and militant, others are more progressive. Like every thing else in the Middle East, it's complicated. Or as you put it, If you can’t hold all those thoughts in your head at the same time, you probably don’t have a grasp of what is going on.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_political_parties_in_Israel

 

 

it is honest when the ones elected AND controlling the government are the ruling majority far right coalition.

 

It isn’t some fringe party that has a couple of elected backbenchers like you are trying to imply.
 

Literally the Minister for National Security belonged to such a far right party that it was designated a terrorist group by the US, and he has been cited for hate speech against Arabs.  His current party is the Jewish Power Party (just picture a “White Power” party in the US forming government) which is rabidly anti-Arab and calls for them all to be cleansed from Israel.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Provost

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Provost]

20 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Let me ask you a hypothetical question. Imagine it's 1938 and UK and Germany have an agreement where UK supplies energy and food to Germany. UK is maintaining its side of the deal. Now it's 1942 and Germany starts bombarding UK. Would you expect UK to continue supplying energy and food to Germany?

You have posted a ton of untrue things in this thread and espoused the killing of civilians as long as they aren’t Jewish.

 

This is also a blatantly false and incoherent comparison.

 

Let me provide a more comparable one.

 

Imagine it is 1938 and the Nazis have spent years stripping rights from Jews and dispossessing them, stealing their property, and killing them.  They then force them all into ghettos where they face deplorable conditions and are surrounded by Nazi forces and checkpoints who control their movements and every aspect of their lives including employment, food, medicine, electricity, etc. 

 

The Nazis during this time continue to move farther and farther to the right, use violence, and call Jews subhumans and animals to justify their increasingly aggressive actions.

 

Then imagine it is 1943 and those Jews trapped in the besieged ghettos formed underground resistance movements in places like Warsaw. Since they had makeshift weapons and were vastly overmatched by the Nazis, they used partisan and Guerrilla tactics to spark an uprising against their oppressor, including killing civilians they considered as collaborators with the Nazis.

 

The Nazis then used that as pretext to come in and indiscriminately kill, burn and destroy the ghetto to root out the resistance movements.  The Nazi leaders then proudly declared that the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw no longer existed.

 

Would you expect the Nazis to continue allowing electricity, food, and water into those ghettos after the uprisings?  Do you condemn the Jewish partisans for killing civilians and hiding as partisans and guerilla fighters instead of standing out in the open to be eradicated by the vastly more powerful Nazi army.

 

Now imagine it it the 2000’s and you replace Warsaw with Gaza.  The ghetto is about to be obliterated and the world is cheering instead of mobilizing against it.

Edited October 13, 2023 by Provost

[bolt]

Israel said they'll turn the power back on if Hamas returns the hostages.  Yet Israel gets the condemnation for that decision? 

[bolt]

22 minutes ago, Provost said:

You have posted a ton of untrue things in this thread and espoused the killing of civilians as long as they aren’t Jewish.

 

This is also a blatantly false and incoherent comparison.

 

Let me provide a more comparable one.

 

Imagine it is 1938 and the Nazis have spent years stripping rights from Jews and dispossessing them, stealing their property, and killing them.  They then force them all into ghettos where they face deplorable conditions and are surround by Nazi forces and checkpoints who control their movements and every aspect of their lives including employment, food, medicine, electricity, etc. 

 

The Nazis during this time continue to move farther and farther to the right, use violence, and call Jews subhumans and animals to justify their increasingly aggressive actions.

 

Then imagine it is 1943 and those Jews trapped in the besieged ghettos formed underground resistance movements and in a place like Warsaw and, because they were vastly overmatched by the Nazis, used partisan and Guerrilla tactics to spark an uprising against their oppressor, including killing civilians they considered as collaborators with the Nazis.

 

The Nazis then used that as pretext to come in and indiscriminately kill, burn and destroy the ghetto to root out the resistance movements.  The Nazi leaders then proudly declared that the Jewish Quarter in Warsaw no longer existed.

 

Would you expect the Nazis to continue allowing electricity, food, and water into those ghettos after the uprisings?

 

Now imagine it it the 2000’s and you replace Warsaw with Gaza.  The ghetto is about to be obliterated and the world is cheering instead of mobilizing against it.

Israel will turn the electricity and water back on if the hostages are returned. Also Gaza would be a better place if they didn't convert most of their humanitarian aid into weapons.  Hamas is a terrorist organization that beheads gays and uses kids as human shields.  Your comparison is very reaching.

Edited October 13, 2023 by bolt