Hamas attacking Israel

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Taxi said:

 

while Hezbollah is a Shiite organization.

Absolutely read this as Hezbollah is a SHITE organization 

[Taxi]

On 7/31/2024 at 10:31 AM, RomanPer said:

 

It actually makes me question those Hamas Health Ministry numbers more. I'm pretty confident that more than 50% casualties in Gaza are combatants. There was never a war in a history of this world where collateral casualties were kept to anywhere close to 50%.

 

Hamas has repeatedly lied about casualties so far. Their numbers include 10,000 unaccounted, 5,000 women, and 8,000 children. The numbers for "unaccounted", women and children are almost certainly exaggerated, with the numbers for children including many child soldiers.

 

The Israeli government had their figures, from a couple of months ago, at 14,000 fighters and 16,000 civilians. They're estimating a little over that 50% mark. But yes, anywhere near 50% is unheard of for urban combat, particularly when you take into account that Hamas is doing everything in their power to expose their own citizens to danger. It likely speaks to Israel's strategy of letting the civilians clear out before most times before entering an area.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Absolutely read this as Hezbollah is a SHITE organization 

that too. 

[Canuck Surfer]

36 minutes ago, Taxi said:

This isn't correct. Palestinians are almost entirely Sunni, while Hezbollah is a Shiite organization. Iran set up Hezbollah, and Hezbollah sees the Ayatollah as their supreme leader

 

It was power vacuum since the Ottomans were kicked out of all of the area's regions.

 

The PLO even before Arafat who was Egyptian, in its roots & most violent days was a militant / political, not binary religious organization. A combination of displaced from the 'Nakba,' Jordanians who did not accept the Hashemite sect of Sunni's, the Kings background not Palestinian. Which is a minority in Jordan to this day. Plus others who wanted their own territories including Jordan, Lebanon. Splinter groups included those that hijacked airplanes famously funded by Gaddafi & other Sunni groups. Attempts to assassinate the Jordanian King and other terrorist attacks. This led to black September in the 1970's and expulsion 'of refugees' from Jordan.

 

Many of the 2knd time displaced settled, but were not offered status in Lebanon. Then allied within their religious affiliations and fought for a place in the civil wars for that country which started in 1975. The original constitution of Lebanon was based on an balance of power for what was originally an almost equal proportionate Christian / Sunni / Shia population. Its generally regarded the influx of demographic Shia refugee's shifted to a now unequal balance & that groups began to fight each other. From what was a successful democracy. 

 

This included the Shia finding backers in the new regime in Iran, correct. Versus revolutionaries, all of them d!ckheads to be honest, backed by different denominations, Muslim Brotherhood, Saudi's, Syrian that were called refugee's. Whom really nobody wanted because they fought for control wherever they landed.

 

Its just part of the history.

 

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

There's zero chance Israel gives the Golan Heights back to Syria though.

 

I've made this point before.  Not that its legal, just a reality. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Wow, not a missile?

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

 

Hamas has repeatedly lied about casualties so far. Their numbers include 10,000 unaccounted, 5,000 women, and 8,000 children. The numbers for "unaccounted", women and children are almost certainly exaggerated, with the numbers for children including many child soldiers.

 

The Israeli government had their figures, from a couple of months ago, at 14,000 fighters and 16,000 civilians. They're estimating a little over that 50% mark. But yes, anywhere near 50% is unheard of for urban combat, particularly when you take into account that Hamas is doing everything in their power to expose their own citizens to danger. It likely speaks to Israel's strategy of letting the civilians clear out before most times before entering an area.

early in the war I saw some footage of an "honourable'' Hamas warrior being martyred while whipping women, presumably his wives, but clearly women under his control at the very least, whipping them like goats out into the street in front and around him while he stood in the middle with an automatic firing over their heads at the IDF in a street battle. Not the last time I saw something like that in the last 9 months, and that is just the video i have access to, I wonder how many times it happens a day out there in the fight? The one I am describing was taken from a go pro from the bad guys after the fight. You can imagine the outcome for the unarmed women. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I think literally any alternative government is better than one rooted in theocratic cult fanaticism. 

 

Yes, I have always been a big believer in seperation of church and state.

 

Funny how the anti - religion crowd in this thread support a state, Isreal, that has no clear seperation of church and state. 

 

A state whose claim to that land is based on a religious myth that a god gave it to them.

 

And a state who some Isrealis believe is turning into a fascist theocracy

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tel-aviv-mayor-warns-israel-heading-toward-a-fascist-theocracy/

 

 

As for the Iranians they deserve the democracy that was stolen from them by the actions of the Americans and British. 

 

Not any form of Monarchy or religious leaders. 

[Canuck Surfer]

I do not believe this one; but here we go...

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes, I have always been a big believer in seperation of church and state.

 

Funny how the anti - religion crowd in this thread support a state, Isreal, that has no clear seperation of church and state. 

 

A state whose claim to that land is based on a religious myth that a god gave it to them.

 

And a state who some Isrealis believe is turning into a fascist theocracy

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/tel-aviv-mayor-warns-israel-heading-toward-a-fascist-theocracy/

 

 

As for the Iranians they deserve the democracy that was stolen from them by the actions of the Americans and British. 

 

Not any form of Monarchy or religious leaders. 

I know you are not happy with the existence of Israel, but I will agree with you when Bibi cancels all future elections and declares himself the voice of God, and goes on to fund terrorist groups in a half dozen middle eastern countries whose sole purpose is to wipe Iran off the map.

 

[Bob Long]

@Optimist Prime If you have time your thoughts on how a secret squirrel got that bomb got into that Iran guesthouse would be interesting. Is that kind of thing common? Are there rooms all over the ME wired to go or was this a quickly done thing? 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Optimist Prime said:

I know you are not happy with the existence of Israel, but I will agree with you when Bibi cancels all future elections and declares himself the voice of God, and goes on to fund terrorist groups in a half dozen middle eastern countries whose sole purpose is to wipe Iran off the map.

 

 

Seriously brother you shouldn't make statements that you know are simply untrue. 

 

I am glad that after nearly a couple of millenia without a homeland, suffering persecution, the Jewish/Israeli people have found/ made a state of their own.

 

What I do have a problem with is hypocrisy.

People who apply a criteria to one group of people, while not holding another group of people to that same standard. 

 

As I have stated many times, for years I wanted a two state solution.

This has changed.

My wish would be a one state solution where both Palestinians and Isrealis live in peace and harmony.

 

My ultimate dream is a one world state.

Where all people realise that we are all in this together.

That we don't fight pointless wars, were the real victims are always the innocent.

 

That we treat the flora and fauna we share this planet with, with the respect. 

 

That we are all intrinsically linked.

 

And it isn't just in this thread I have stated these thoughts. 

 

Who has posted about Isrealis helping Palestinians brother ?

I have 

Not any those who support Isreal.

 

Who posts about Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace. 

I do.

 

It's very clear what my agenda is to anyone that thinks in a rational, logical manner.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

Seriously brother you shouldn't make statements that you know are simply untrue. 

 

I am glad that after nearly a couple of millenia without a homeland, suffering persecution, the Jewish/Israeli people have found/ made a state of their own.

 

What I do have a problem with is hypocrisy.

People who apply a criteria to one group of people, while not holding another group of people to that same standard. 

 

As I have stated many times, for years I wanted a two state solution.

This has changed.

My wish would be a one state solution where both Palestinians and Isrealis live in peace and harmony.

 

My ultimate dream is a one world state.

Where all people realise that we are all in this together.

That we don't fight pointless wars, were the real victims are always the innocent.

 

That we treat the flora and fauna we share this planet with, with the respect. 

 

That we are all intrinsically linked.

 

And it isn't just in this thread I have stated these thoughts. 

 

Who has posted about Isrealis helping Palestinians brother ?

I have 

Not any those who support Isreal.

 

Who posts about Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace. 

I do.

 

It's very clear what my agenda is to anyone that thinks in a rational, logical manner.

Sorry brother, i was trying my hand at tongue in cheek comedy, it failed horribly, I know you and I know. I wasn't serious. Sorry. My wife tells me daily I am not funny..i should listen to her. 

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

@Optimist Prime If you have time your thoughts on how a secret squirrel got that bomb got into that Iran guesthouse would be interesting. Is that kind of thing common? Are there rooms all over the ME wired to go or was this a quickly done thing? 

whew, spycraft, I dunno. 

 

I can tell you that I ran a crew that wired the UN headquarters in Syria on one project. I mean like a legit contract to wire Cat 5 up to the second or third floor, telephone lines as well as computers. Cut over to a new Main Distribution Frame and all that jazz. Mostly we used local Syrian electricians and telecomms guys but their standards were like "How can I fit this plate of Spaghetti inside that distribution box?".. I did some quality control one day and borrowed the screwdriver from an apprentice's hand to open a data port cover on the wall, like we all have in our homes here and there, from before cell phones that is.... when i double checked his termination work and put the cover back on and turned to give him his screw driver back he was gone. I searched the floor, no sign of him...he was kind of a new hire so i tracked him down, he was already 40 feet outside the gate walking home. He said he couldn't work without his screwdriver and so he thought his day was done and that perhaps i was up to no good and didn't want any witnesses, and he didn't want to piss off the boss. 

Edit: he didn't say up to no good, but it was inferred in what he was saying... lol 

so maybe something like that perhaps?

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

whew, spycraft, I dunno. 

 

I can tell you that I ran a crew that wired the UN headquarters in Syria on one project. I mean like a legit contract to wire Cat 5 up to the second or third floor, telephone lines as well as computers. Cut over to a new Main Distribution Frame and all that jazz. Mostly we used local Syrian electricians and telecomms guys but their standards were like "How can I fit this plate of Spaghetti inside that distribution box?".. I did some quality control one day and borrowed the screwdriver from an apprentice's hand to open a data port cover on the wall, like we all have in our homes here and there, from before cell phones that is.... when i double checked his termination work and put the cover back on and turned to give him his screw driver back he was gone. I searched the floor, no sign of him...he was kind of a new hire so i tracked him down, he was already 40 feet outside the gate walking home. He said he couldn't work without his screwdriver and so he thought his day was done and that perhaps i was up to no good and didn't want any witnesses, and he didn't want to piss off the boss. 

Edit: he didn't say up to no good, but it was inferred in what he was saying... lol 

so maybe something like that perhaps?

 

That's awesome, I bet that is accurate. It just made me wonder how many rooms in Iran that Israel has ready to go. Iranian leaders are probably afraid to go to an unfamiliar bathroom.

 

[Optimist Prime]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

That's awesome, I bet that is accurate. It just made me wonder how many rooms in Iran that Israel has ready to go. Iranian leaders are probably afraid to go to an unfamiliar bathroom.

 

Bibi mentioned without saying israel did it, that the guy was dead and referenced some high tech explosive devices that Iran furnished to Hamas in the months leading up to Oct 7th. Part of me wonders if Israeli spies didn't repurpose some of those 'high tech explosive devices' which would be ultimately ironic. haha. 
I remember their spies convinced the elder Assad to plant Conniferous Trees near army bases for the troops to rest under away from the scorching sun..every base in Syria soon had large groves of Cedars right beside them. When the last war broke out, the Israeli Airforce just smoked the tree groves at every base and took out a LOAD of Syrian armed forces that way. Pretty sneaky sneak stuff, imo. 

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Sorry brother, i was trying my hand at tongue in cheek comedy, it failed horribly, I know you and I know. I wasn't serious. Sorry. My wife tells me daily I am not funny..i should listen to her. 

 

That's alright.

 

That's the thing, I don't hold onto to negative feelings about others, what the point, that's a reflection on me, not them.

 

As I have stated before, my mum used to ask me, why do you take the weight of the world on your shoulders son ?

Why do you care about others so much ?

I have no answer for this except to say that maybe, this is the way I am wired.

When I see people suffering, it effects something " inside "me. 

 

A part of me knows that there will always be fellow human beings who will suffer.

However I will never get used to that.

[Optimist Prime]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

That's alright.

 

That's the thing, I don't hold onto to negative feelings about others, what the point, that's a reflection on me, not them.

 

As I have stated before, my mum used to ask me, why do you take the weight of the world on your shoulders son ?

Why do you care about others so much ?

I have no answer for this except to say that maybe, this is the way I am wired.

When I see people suffering, it effects something " inside "me. 

 

A part of me knows that there will always be fellow human beings who will suffer.

However I will never get used to that.

While we have varied persp3ctives, and nuances to what we do generally agree upon, we both certainly care and want the best outcomes for everyone. Lastly, you read my mind with your last paragraph, it is true, but you don't have to get used to it. That is you, and your good as you are. I feel I accept that people will always suffer and look for the long term "what would be best" knowing we are the worst  species on earth. Shrug. I don't think we will ever stop waging wr as an instinct within us. then I work towards the best possible outcomes under those terms for the most people. I am not right, not anymore than you are anyways.

 

Have a good night.

[Ilunga]

35 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

While we have varied persp3ctives, and nuances to what we do generally agree upon, we both certainly care and want the best outcomes for everyone. Lastly, you read my mind with your last paragraph, it is true, but you don't have to get used to it. That is you, and your good as you are. I feel I accept that people will always suffer and look for the long term "what would be best" knowing we are the worst  species on earth. Shrug. I don't think we will ever stop waging wr as an instinct within us. then I work towards the best possible outcomes under those terms for the most people. I am not right, not anymore than you are anyways.

 

Have a good night.

 

Like that woman I posted about who is donating land in the Golan Heights to the Cultural Peace Project stated,

You may call me a dreamer, but I am not the only one. 

I believe people like her are the real heroes for want of a better word.

 

People that help others, and work towards breaking down barriers between people. 

 

I just don't understand all this stuff about Jewish blood, or Arab blood, whatever nationality you want to name blood.

 

There are 8 blood types that all humans share, with O postive and A positive accounting for 65 percent of the 8 blood types. 

 

A fitting reply to your post are some words from a man who I really hold in high esteem

 

" We must accept infinite disappointment, but never lose infinite hope "

 

MLK Jr.

 

Edited August 2 by Ilunga

[Canuck Surfer]

11 hours ago, Taxi said:

 

This isn't correct. Palestinians are almost entirely Sunni, while Hezbollah is a Shiite organization. Iran set up Hezbollah, and Hezbollah sees the Ayatollah as their supreme leader.

 

There's zero chance Israel gives the Golan Heights back to Syria though. It's a sparsely population area that gives the high ground to whoever has it. From the Golan Heights, you'd be able to launch rockets easily into just about anywhere in Israel, and this is what Syria did until Israel took it over. The idea that you can't take strategically important land in a war, particularly a defensive one, is absurd. Land has and does change hands all the time in wars. If you expect Israel to withdraw from land that they were attacked from, it's not happening. 

 

Here is a doco specifying the feedback I provided.

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Boudrias]

15 hours ago, Taxi said:

 

This isn't correct. Palestinians are almost entirely Sunni, while Hezbollah is a Shiite organization. Iran set up Hezbollah, and Hezbollah sees the Ayatollah as their supreme leader.

 

There's zero chance Israel gives the Golan Heights back to Syria though. It's a sparsely population area that gives the high ground to whoever has it. From the Golan Heights, you'd be able to launch rockets easily into just about anywhere in Israel, and this is what Syria did until Israel took it over. The idea that you can't take strategically important land in a war, particularly a defensive one, is absurd. Land has and does change hands all the time in wars. If you expect Israel to withdraw from land that they were attacked from, it's not happening. 

Was it not the Golan Heights that the Syrians launched their tanks in the 1973 war? It was BiBi who brought his tanks from the south to beat off the Syrians who came close to reaching the Med and splitting Israel in two. I cannot see any Israeli government turning the Golan Heights back, especially to those determined to kill every Israeli. 

[Bob Long]

7 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

While we have varied persp3ctives, and nuances to what we do generally agree upon, we both certainly care and want the best outcomes for everyone. Lastly, you read my mind with your last paragraph, it is true, but you don't have to get used to it. That is you, and your good as you are. I feel I accept that people will always suffer and look for the long term "what would be best" knowing we are the worst  species on earth. Shrug. I don't think we will ever stop waging wr as an instinct within us. then I work towards the best possible outcomes under those terms for the most people. I am not right, not anymore than you are anyways.

 

Have a good night.

 

big picture, over time, thats the only way one can look at the ME (and other places) without getting lost in the day to day horrors, and left not knowing which way to turn, imo anyway. Peoples lives are not perfect under democracies, but thats the only way thats ever really provided a way out of theocratic abuse and such little respect for human life, particularly female life. 

 

Nothing imo has really changed since this particular conflict began. We still have only one democracy in the ME, we still have bat shit crazy theocracies trying to take it out, while at the same time abusing their own people often at higher rates than this war, but that doesn't make it to Al Jazeera nightly news for some reason. 

 

[Optimist Prime]

an hour ago, two Hezbollah operatives were, to quote a guy I like to watch recap the Ukraine war daily, 'unalived'. 

 

 

Also, twenty minutes ago:

20 minutes ago - 

The Saudi newspaper al-Sharq Al-Awast: Israel managed to kill Rofi Mushtaha, Sinwar's friend and the head of the military wing of Hamas.

[Taxi]

4 hours ago, Boudrias said:

Was it not the Golan Heights that the Syrians launched their tanks in the 1973 war? It was BiBi who brought his tanks from the south to beat off the Syrians who came close to reaching the Med and splitting Israel in two. I cannot see any Israeli government turning the Golan Heights back, especially to those determined to kill every Israeli. 

 

That was likely the 1967 war. Since that war Israel has controlled the Golan. Syria tried, but failed, to take it back in 1973. 

 

But yes, returning the Golan Heights is simply not happening. And the idea that "international law" states that Israel has to give the land back to a country that's attacked them 3 times in full scale wars and continues to fund and arm militant groups on their borders is ridiculous. Syria and Hezbollah are allied, Israel is in continuous war with Hezbollah. Syria has yet to negotiate a peace treaty or even acknowledge that Israel exists.