Hamas attacking Israel

[HarbularyBattery]

1 minute ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am not going to go back into the UN library and rehash what is now being proven strait up in the news. Enjoy your googling. 

I did so, theres nothing apparent on Google that suggests that Hamas is contracted to provide labor for UNRWA, aside from unsubstantiated allegations from Israel that "11% of unrwa employees are members of Hamas"

 

If your claim is true, UNRWA should be dismantled and replaced or restructured, but i dont see any evidence of it being the case.

 

More to the point, even if you dismantle UNRWA, the humanitarian support role needs to be filled. Dismantling UNRWA without replacing its humanitarian work would be wrong on so many levels.

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

12 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

I did so, theres nothing apparent on Google that suggests that Hamas is contracted to provide labor for UNRWA, aside from unsubstantiated allegations from Israel that "11% of unrwa employees are members of Hamas"

 

If your claim is true, UNRWA should be dismantled and replaced or restructured, but i dont see any evidence of it being the case.

 

More to the point, even if you dismantle UNRWA, the humanitarian support role needs to be filled. Dismantling UNRWA without replacing its humanitarian work would be wrong on so many levels.

 

 

UNRWA can be defunded, dismantled and purged of terrorists and not have much effect on the ground other than to weaken Hamas. 
As you can see, these aid deliveries in orange are a large but minority amount of all aid delivered. 

 

Back in end October/ early November I poured through hundreds of relevant UN documents. I know you won't nor should you believe a rando on the internet, but I have done actual research, not just google searches or parsing of news stories. 

[Bob Long]

19 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

I did so, theres nothing apparent on Google that suggests that Hamas is contracted to provide labor for UNRWA, aside from unsubstantiated allegations from Israel that "11% of unrwa employees are members of Hamas"

 

If your claim is true, UNRWA should be dismantled and replaced or restructured, but i dont see any evidence of it being the case.

 

More to the point, even if you dismantle UNRWA, the humanitarian support role needs to be filled. Dismantling UNRWA without replacing its humanitarian work would be wrong on so many levels.

 

 

 

Maybe it's time for the Saudis to step in and provide the aid.

[HarbularyBattery]

17 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

UNRWA can be defunded, dismantled and purged of terrorists and not have much effect on the ground other than to weaken Hamas. 
As you can see, these aid deliveries in orange are a large but minority amount of all aid delivered. 

 

Back in end October/ early November I poured through hundreds of relevant UN documents. I know you won't nor should you believe a rando on the internet, but I have done actual research, not just google searches or parsing of news stories. 

Importing food into the strip is a very small portion of UNRWA's mandate, you know that. 

 

If you want to eliminate UNRWA by all means, but you need to find a new organization that will operate healthcare facilities, schools, and aid delivery infrastructure.

 

And correct - the word of a rando on the internet isn't enough evidence for me. If it were true, Israel would have pushed that evidence to the forefront when it came to light, and it would be right in front of our faces.

[HarbularyBattery]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Maybe it's time for the Saudis to step in and provide the aid.

I would be all in favor of using those criminals money to do a bit of good. 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

I would be all in favor of using those criminals money to do a bit of good. 

 

Yep. It's also time for more Arab countries to pick up the humanitarian slack, show some leadership that way.

[Optimist Prime]

6 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Importing food into the strip is a very small portion of UNRWA's mandate, you know that. 

 

If you want to eliminate UNRWA by all means, but you need to find a new organization that will operate healthcare facilities, schools, and aid delivery infrastructure.

 

And correct - the word of a rando on the internet isn't enough evidence for me. If it were true, Israel would have pushed that evidence to the forefront when it came to light, and it would be right in front of our faces.

I can only assure you that I look at evidence and form an opinion, I don't have an opinion and then seek evidence to support it. 
give that a try, it really works.

 

Edit: i think i sounded snarky with this post, sorry. What I meant to elude to is that Israel has provided evidence to the UN, and openly has said all of this. The UN just fired 9 senior people in UNRWA for exactly what we are talking about here. But it appears you have formed an opinion and don't want conflicting evidence to muddy that opinion up. It is a human trait, you are not alone. Have a great August. Stay cool. 
I am taking off to do some gardening, it seems like a better use of my time. 

[HarbularyBattery]

3 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I can only assure you that I look at evidence and form an opinion, I don't have an opinion and then seek evidence to support it. 
give that a try, it really works.

 

i believe i do the same, but smarter and better people than you and i have been guilty of confirmation bias too, so all we can do is try our best.

[Optimist Prime]

On 11/9/2023 at 8:45 AM, Optimist Prime said:

Two hours old: Edit: i won't share the footage of the fight to take the location.

 

 

 

This video was taken less than two hours after a fight to eliminate Hamas from inside this UNRWA school, where a bomb and rocket making factory was uncovered and the classrooms were still showing chalk on the boards instructions on how to make those bombs. November 9th.

[HarbularyBattery]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep. It's also time for more Arab countries to pick up the humanitarian slack, show some leadership that way.

 

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/03/24/farah-pandith-saudi-how-we-win-book/ 

 

"In recent decades, the Saudis have spent up to an estimated $100 billion spreading Wahhabism"

 

"the so-called Islamic State in particular would not have existed “in the configuration that we see them today.” The group justifies its violence by recourse to Wahhabi tenets and teachings that “have been pushed by the Saudi state.”

 

The extreme fringe interpretation of Islam which has been made mainstream thanks to the hard work of the Saudi rulers for the past 40 years took muslim countries from:

 

 

to 

 

 

 

This would never have been possible if Saudi didnt murder and imprison imams that openly challenged their extremism like this guy:

https://www.uscirf.gov/religious-prisoners-conscience/forb-victims-database/hassan-farhan-al-maliki

 

 

People don't give Saudi Arabia enough credit for creating this borderline clash of civilizations that we face today.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[HarbularyBattery]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

This video was taken less than two hours after a fight to eliminate Hamas from inside this UNRWA school, where a bomb and rocket making factory was uncovered and the classrooms were still showing chalk on the boards instructions on how to make those bombs. November 9th.

Yes, it is widely known that Hamas operates out of and uses UNRWA schools (as well as hospitals, and other public institutions) to stage attacks on Israel, particularly since oct 7

 

but that evidence doesn't in any way prove that unrwa is made up of hamas members, or that unrwa voluntarily gave that school to hamas. more than likely, hamas marched up to the school with guns, emptied it out (or even kept some kids as human shields), and used it as they pleased.

[Canuck Surfer]

Not a common opinion amongst Arab peoples.  And opinionated with certain bias of course.

 

 

[HarbularyBattery]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Not a common opinion amongst Arab peoples.  And opinionated with certain bias of course.

 

 

"Loay Alshareef grew up a religious Muslim in Saudi Arabia, where he learned that Jews came from pigs and apes, they lived on stolen land in Israel and “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” was true. "

 

color me surprised.

[Canuck Surfer]

More conservative view; Fox news of course;

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

color me surprised.

 

His speech disingenuous?

[HarbularyBattery]

Just now, Canuck Surfer said:

 

His speech disingenuous?

Not at all.

 

Just not surprised that saudi arabia was the place he was indoctrinated with the hateful extremism. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Oii; Hamas wants peace huh?

 

 

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

that feels like a massive allegation that if true would have led to the defunding of UNRWA whenever it came to light

 

is there evidence of this? plenty of "common knowledge" is just unsubstantiated propaganda

 

Here's the problem with any UN organization at the moment - they are quick to blame things on Israel and are strangely quiet when Israel is a target. There were nothing from the UN after Hezbollah bombing of kids playing soccer in Israel. And it's just one example. The fact that UNRWA-funded schools have active antisemitic propaganda and "kill the Jews" narrative has been known for years without any type of reaction from UNRWA or UN. The fact that countries like Iran and Russia can sit and even chair the UN Human Rights Commission and Security Council should be enough to understand what UN is all about. Sorry, but UN as the whole is the biggest useless organization in the world.

[HarbularyBattery]

17 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Here's the problem with any UN organization at the moment - they are quick to blame things on Israel and are strangely quiet when Israel is a target. There were nothing from the UN after Hezbollah bombing of kids playing soccer in Israel. And it's just one example. The fact that UNRWA-funded schools have active antisemitic propaganda and "kill the Jews" narrative has been known for years without any type of reaction from UNRWA or UN. The fact that countries like Iran and Russia can sit and even chair the UN Human Rights Commission and Security Council should be enough to understand what UN is all about. Sorry, but UN as the whole is the biggest useless organization in the world.

 

This is probably a really good idea:

 

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/E-9-2023-002620_EN.html

 

Obviously emergency aid (food + medicine) to red cross etc. would not be conditional on anything, but any developmental aid should come with conditions like this

Edited August 6 by HarbularyBattery

[Taxi]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Oii; Hamas wants peace huh?

 

 

 

Sinwar is the highest ranking Hamas official, by far, still left alive. 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Taxi said:

 

Sinwar is the highest ranking Hamas official, by far, still left alive. 

 

Sinwar in the 80's and 90's was an operative.

 

Who helped establish territory in Gaza for Hamas to control & enforced by extreme violence.  He executed those belonging to their political opposition (PA) or believed to be collaborators. Established networks which controlled, and were paid tax by local businesses. Assigned hits and responsibilities via messages from other leaders at their local Mosques. Imagine that in a place of worship? Where attendance by locals was mandatory to show allegiance. Territory was won street by street, Mosque by Mosque. Then enforced & Yahya with his own hands was the enforcer. Convicted for killing 6, he is widely known to have disposed of dozens.

 

Their organization thousands.  Also executed terrorist attacks to amplify anger within Israel, harness progress. Did not wish Jews to have peace aspirations. Just leave.

 

Most active in periods 6 & 8 years preceding the Oslo Accord with Israel & 2knd state solution; sworn to suppress any official or individual associated with transitioning to a life where Israel still existed. He dug a grave for one man, interrogated, beat him. Before strangling him with a Kaffiyeh. ''I strangled him with my bare hands.'' ''Buried him and went home'' he told court. This, at a time, even what remained of the PLO had moderated to the point of succumbing to compromise for peace. 

 

Currently; he surrounds himself with not Palestinian human shields, but remaining hostages from Oct 7. 

 

What Palestinians need is for an honest representation of the people to be selected to negotiate. Unfortunately they don't have charge of the hostages. 

[Canuck Surfer]

https://www.jns.org/iaf-jets-break-sound-barrier-over-beirut-as-nasrallah-vows-to-punish-israel/

 

IAF jets break sound barrier over Beirut as Nasrallah vows to ‘punish’ Israel

“The enemy is waiting in a state of loss and anxiety,” said the Hezbollah leader, adding that the waiting “is part of the punishment.”

 

 

(August 6, 2024 / JNS)

Israeli Air Force jets flew low over Beirut on Tuesday minutes before Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah was set to address a memorial marking one week since the death of his No. 2 man, Fuad Shukr.

Lebanese eyewitnesses told the Reuters wire agency that they were able to see the Israeli planes, which were said to have produced “one of the largest sonic booms heard by residents in years,” with the naked eye.

Shukr was a top terror commander responsible for a rocket barrage that killed 12 children in a Druze village in the Israeli Golan Heights, as well as a 1983 bombing that killed more than 300 U.S. and French service personnel in Beirut. He was killed in an Israeli airstrike in the Lebanese capital on July 30.

Speaking at the memorial ceremony for the slain terrorist by video link, Nasrallah confirmed that Iran, Hezbollah and Yemen’s Houthis would respond jointly to the killings of Shukr and top Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who was assassinated on July 31 in Tehran by a planted bomb that has been associated with Israel.

“The enemy is waiting in a state of loss and anxiety,” charged the Hezbollah leader, adding that the waiting “is part of the punishment.”

“Iran is forced to fight after the assassination of martyr Haniyeh in Iran, but Iran is not required to fight indefinitely,” said Nasrallah, adding that Hezbollah requested Tehran’s “moral, political and military support.”

“Our response is coming, Inshallah [‘God willing’], alone or with the Axis of Resistance, regardless of the ramifications,” vowed Nasrallah.

“We once again call on the Arab and Islamic countries to reconsider their approach in light of the dangers that threaten the region,” he said, in reference to reported declarations by the governments of Jordan and Saudi Arabia that they would not allow Tehran to use their airspace.

Regarding the expected joint attack led by Tehran, Nasrallah claimed that American military assistance in the face of the mounting threats proves Jerusalem’s “incapability to defend itself, as was also shown in Iran’s Operation True Promise” missile and drone assault on April 13.

Haniyeh‘s death is “a great loss for [Iran’s] Axis of Resistance, but it will not deter the resistance” in the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria, he said.

“When it comes to the general situation of the current battle, Gaza and the West Bank are its central arena, in addition to the support fronts,” Nasrallah said of Hezbollah’s ongoing attacks in support of Hamas, which started on Oct. 8 following the massacre in southern Israel.

“Today in northern occupied Palestine—despite the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and air-defense systems, which are on high alert—the resistance drones reached Nahariya and Acre,” the top terrorist continued.

As Nasrallah spoke, air-raid sirens were activated in communities in Israel’s north, warning of renewed rocket and drone fire from Lebanon. According to local reports, a fire broke out near the town of Beit Hillel in the Galilee panhandle as a result of a rocket launched by Hezbollah.

At the same time, Israeli Air Force jets launched new strikes on Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure in Kfarkela in Southern Lebanon.

[RomanPer]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

https://www.jns.org/iaf-jets-break-sound-barrier-over-beirut-as-nasrallah-vows-to-punish-israel/

 

IAF jets break sound barrier over Beirut as Nasrallah vows to ‘punish’ Israel

“The enemy is waiting in a state of loss and anxiety,” said the Hezbollah leader, adding that the waiting “is part of the punishment.”

 

 

(August 6, 2024 / JNS)

Israeli Air Force jets flew low over Beirut on Tuesday minutes before Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah was set to address a memorial marking one week since the death of his No. 2 man, Fuad Shukr.

Lebanese eyewitnesses told the Reuters wire agency that they were able to see the Israeli planes, which were said to have produced “one of the largest sonic booms heard by residents in years,” with the naked eye.

Shukr was a top terror commander responsible for a rocket barrage that killed 12 children in a Druze village in the Israeli Golan Heights, as well as a 1983 bombing that killed more than 300 U.S. and French service personnel in Beirut. He was killed in an Israeli airstrike in the Lebanese capital on July 30.

Speaking at the memorial ceremony for the slain terrorist by video link, Nasrallah confirmed that Iran, Hezbollah and Yemen’s Houthis would respond jointly to the killings of Shukr and top Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, who was assassinated on July 31 in Tehran by a planted bomb that has been associated with Israel.

“The enemy is waiting in a state of loss and anxiety,” charged the Hezbollah leader, adding that the waiting “is part of the punishment.”

“Iran is forced to fight after the assassination of martyr Haniyeh in Iran, but Iran is not required to fight indefinitely,” said Nasrallah, adding that Hezbollah requested Tehran’s “moral, political and military support.”

“Our response is coming, Inshallah [‘God willing’], alone or with the Axis of Resistance, regardless of the ramifications,” vowed Nasrallah.

“We once again call on the Arab and Islamic countries to reconsider their approach in light of the dangers that threaten the region,” he said, in reference to reported declarations by the governments of Jordan and Saudi Arabia that they would not allow Tehran to use their airspace.

Regarding the expected joint attack led by Tehran, Nasrallah claimed that American military assistance in the face of the mounting threats proves Jerusalem’s “incapability to defend itself, as was also shown in Iran’s Operation True Promise” missile and drone assault on April 13.

Haniyeh‘s death is “a great loss for [Iran’s] Axis of Resistance, but it will not deter the resistance” in the Gaza Strip, Judea and Samaria, he said.

“When it comes to the general situation of the current battle, Gaza and the West Bank are its central arena, in addition to the support fronts,” Nasrallah said of Hezbollah’s ongoing attacks in support of Hamas, which started on Oct. 8 following the massacre in southern Israel.

“Today in northern occupied Palestine—despite the Iron Dome, David’s Sling and air-defense systems, which are on high alert—the resistance drones reached Nahariya and Acre,” the top terrorist continued.

As Nasrallah spoke, air-raid sirens were activated in communities in Israel’s north, warning of renewed rocket and drone fire from Lebanon. According to local reports, a fire broke out near the town of Beit Hillel in the Galilee panhandle as a result of a rocket launched by Hezbollah.

At the same time, Israeli Air Force jets launched new strikes on Hezbollah terrorist infrastructure in Kfarkela in Southern Lebanon.

 

It reads double funny by someone who speaks Russian and Ukrainian. "Nasralla" in both languages means "she shat herself"  

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

“Our response is coming, Inshallah [‘God willing’], alone or with the Axis of Resistance, regardless of the ramifications,” vowed Nasrallah.

 

Clearly this is no state secret anymore. 

 

3 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

“We once again call on the Arab and Islamic countries to reconsider their approach in light of the dangers that threaten the region,” he said, in reference to reported declarations by the governments of Jordan and Saudi Arabia that they would not allow Tehran to use their airspace.

 

Similarly Hamas thought Arab nations would pile in Oct 8th. There is amazing sympathy around the world for Palestinians. Particularly in Arab nations, then in different contexts Muslim ones. Yet they know any / all / most militants, Axiis of Resistance or otherwise are just as likely to stab at control of their countries and communities. Think ISIS, Muslim Brotherhood, Al Qaeda, etc., ad nauseum, etc.. Nasrallah represents a threat to Jordan. Has already participated in trying to gain territories in Syria, Iraq. Been the source of civil war & dysfunction in Lebanon Has had his cause kicked out of other countries. 

 

Common in spirit, Arabs maybe even attracted to a snake, still understand a snake also will gorge on the bowels of another snake, bird, Jew, Turk, Stan or Kurd. Etc., etc..

 

Jordan and the Saudi's will not only not allow access to their air space.  Will supply air defense from as opportunity presents. 

 

As I like many others hoped NATO would do for Ukraine.