Boudrias Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 2 hours ago, RomanPer said: Your numbers are simply incorrect. This is what Hamas wants you to believe. It must be true. It was in the 'news'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 (edited) 32 minutes ago, Boudrias said: It must be true. It was in the 'news'. Media outlets are simply a way for billionaires and governments to control the narrative. Even so called eye witness reports can be faked now. Scary times we live in. Edited August 11 by DeNiro 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 3 hours ago, Babych said: Did you even watch the video? Most of the people killed were innocents. Since the start of this conflict Israel has killed almost 40,000 Palestinians- including almost 15,000 children. Israel is not the “good guy” in this story anymore, if they ever were. They’ve gone way too far and need to stand down. Hamas evil people need to be eliminated. They are proven cowards who use women, children, elderly, ill, and all who are innocent as human shields. These are not true warriors. They need to be put down. Then the good and innocent people of Gaza would be free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 2 hours ago, Babych said: So Hamas controls cnn, Reuters, Al Jazeera, etc? I wasn’t aware they had that much of a reach. those news sources you quote there say the numbers are from the organization in Gaza that does not differentiate between civilian and combatant deaths. Some of them even say it in their news stories sorta like a disclaimer statement (I could be wrong maybe its just CBC that does that to try not to be biased, im not going to check their websites im just assuming they do it like cbc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 2 hours ago, DeNiro said: Media outlets are simply a way for billionaires and governments to control the narrative. Even so called eye witness reports can be faked now. Scary times we live in. It's fake news if you want it to be... Spoiler Don, do Don, Don! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 My news is better than your news if i dont agree with what you say. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 11 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: It's fake news if you want it to be... Hide contents Don, do Don, Don! It’s fake news if it doesn’t fit your narrative. Works for both sides unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 5 minutes ago, DeNiro said: It’s fake news if it doesn’t fit your narrative. Works for both sides unfortunately. we also don't tend to go back and correct stories that were wrong with the same front page zeal of initial stories. We've seen a number of stories that claimed much higher casualties that turned out to be wrong, but that happens on page 40. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 3 hours ago, Boudrias said: It must be true. It was in the 'news'. You don't seem to understand that some news outlets have a lot more credibility than others. There are fact checking organisations that verify the credibility of these news organisations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 32 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: My news is better than your news if i dont agree with what you say. I mean we all have to have a certain amount of faith that the news we’re consuming is true no? No one knows for certain what is happening unless they’re on the ground, and even the information can get twisted and muddy. The truth often lies somewhere in the middle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 9 minutes ago, Ilunga said: You don't seem to understand that some news outlets have a lot more credibility than others. There are fact checking organisations that verify the credibility of these news organisations. And what motives do these fact checking organizations have? You can never be 100% with anything, you just have to use your best judgement and have a certain amount of faith. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 16 minutes ago, Bob Long said: we also don't tend to go back and correct stories that were wrong with the same front page zeal of initial stories. We've seen a number of stories that claimed much higher casualties that turned out to be wrong, but that happens on page 40. Yes, I remember when most people jumped on board when it " seemed " the casualty figures had been lowered. When the fact of the matter was there was the same amount of dead people, it was just a matter of identifying many of them. " Why the UN changed its death toll of Palestinian women and children killed in Gaza " https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-women-children-death-toll-1.7203167 " Women children still account for more than half of identified victims after UN agency revises figures " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 7 minutes ago, DeNiro said: And what motives do these fact checking organizations have? You can never be 100% with anything, you just have to use your best judgement and have a certain amount of faith. The motive of verifying factual information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 11 Share Posted August 11 The moment people start questioning impartial observers at every opportunity because of potential bias, is the moment they've lost the plot. Especially when dead children are involved 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 39 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Yes, I remember when most people jumped on board when it " seemed " the casualty figures had been lowered. When the fact of the matter was there was the same amount of dead people, it was just a matter of identifying many of them. " Why the UN changed its death toll of Palestinian women and children killed in Gaza " https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-women-children-death-toll-1.7203167 " Women children still account for more than half of identified victims after UN agency revises figures " Hamas cowardly hide behind the weak and innocent. It’s like they want those human shields to suffer. Very sick imo. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: The motive of verifying factual information. Sure if you believe that. Also are you aware of what methods they use? Do you know they’re not obtaining information from sources with similar motives? You can’t really verify that yourself can you? So again you have to have a bit of faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 44 minutes ago, Warhippy said: The moment people start questioning impartial observers at every opportunity because of potential bias, is the moment they've lost the plot. Especially when dead children are involved If you believe there are actually “impartial observers” in this. I would say there are more stakeholders in this conflict than we realize. I would also counter with the moment people accept every ounce of information they receive from so called “trusted sources” then they give them complete power. Always best to use critical thinking no matter what “side” the information is coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Hamas cowardly hide behind the weak and innocent. It’s like they want those human shields to suffer. Very sick imo. I totally agree. Hamas are subjectively evil on many levels, using civilians as shields is the one of those. I know that this article is not about this particular phase of the conflict, however how do you feel about Israeli forces torturing children and using them as human shields ? " Palestinian children tortured, used as shields by Israel: UN " https://www.reuters.com/article/world/palestinian-children-tortured-used-as-shields-by-israel-un-idUSBRE95J0FR/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, DeNiro said: Sure if you believe that. Also are you aware of what methods they use? Do you know they’re not obtaining information from sources with similar motives? You can’t really verify that yourself can you? So again you have to have a bit of faith. Yes I am aware of the fact checking methodology of the site I use the most as a fact checking/bias guide. Here is Media Bias fact checking methodology https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/methodology/ See how their methodology fits with the information/experience we have with the news organisations mentioned in that article ? When you combine this with what can be critically ascertained by ones own experience and thinking process, the ability to think critically, it becomes easier to separate accurate sources of news. A news organisation is like any business. Some have a good/great reputation, some don't. Then you have your three very basic BS detectors. Who is the messenger ? What is their history ? What is their motivation for delivering the message ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 11 hours ago, Babych said: So Hamas controls cnn, Reuters, Al Jazeera, etc? I wasn’t aware they had that much of a reach. No, they just like the numbers that create stories. “25,000 terrorists were killed” doesn’t generate the same interest and traffic as “15,000 children were killed”. Israel is fighting terrorism. Hamas is is trying to sell themselves as victims. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 7 hours ago, RomanPer said: No, they just like the numbers that create stories. “25,000 terrorists were killed” doesn’t generate the same interest and traffic as “15,000 children were killed”. Israel is fighting terrorism. Hamas is is trying to sell themselves as victims. It appears you like to make numbers up to suit yourself. 25,000 Terrorists killed ? Is this another roman myth ? According to the IDF as reported by the New York Times, just over 3 weeks ago, 17th July. " Israel gives an indication of the wars toll on Hamas' The military said that it had killed or captured around 14,000 combatants in Gaza since the wars start but left considerable ambiguity about the figure " https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-leaders-killed.html " Israel's military says that it has killed or captured around 14,000 combatants in Gaza since the war began there nine months ago and unverifiable and ambiguous number that gives a measure of Israel's assessment of its progress towards Benjamins Netanyahu's stated goal of destroying Hamas. " So the IDF claims 14,000 and you claim 25,000. What's your source roman ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 8 hours ago, RomanPer said: No, they just like the numbers that create stories. “25,000 terrorists were killed” doesn’t generate the same interest and traffic as “15,000 children were killed”. Israel is fighting terrorism. Hamas is is trying to sell themselves as victims. IMO Hamas has crafted a brutal attempt at equivalency in Gaza. Their propaganda has been picked up by western media and Hamas allies that have established themselves around the world. Israel struggles to survive in the ME when the majority of Muslims would like to see them slaughtered in a repeat of 10/7. Any suggestion that war can be conducted in a safe manner for civilians is a deceptive effort to influence opinion. It is agreeing with the very nature of how Hamas conducts war. It reminds me of how the IRA operated years ago. Israel must finish Hamas off as they also prepare for a war against Hezbollah and likely Iran. Does sober second thought exist within those 2 entities or are they willing to sacrifice large parts of their populations to achieve a religious goal. Their actions, particularly Iran, show a willingness to do exactly that. Sacrifice their own people. These are not benign entities. They are brutal regimes. Israel, for all its warts, is a beacon in the ME. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 16 hours ago, DeNiro said: If you believe there are actually “impartial observers” in this. I would say there are more stakeholders in this conflict than we realize. I would also counter with the moment people accept every ounce of information they receive from so called “trusted sources” then they give them complete power. Always best to use critical thinking no matter what “side” the information is coming from. I have this funny feeling that individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids etc all counting the dead bodies of kids are going in fairly impartial. I personally don't believe bias is achieved until after the counting is done. Critical thinking is understanding that while both players in the fight have extreme agendas. There are in fact people who are just there to help people and save lives free from caring about those agendas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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