Yoshiyoshi Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 14 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I have this funny feeling that individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids etc all counting the dead bodies of kids are going in fairly impartial. I personally don't believe bias is achieved until after the counting is done. Critical thinking is understanding that while both players in the fight have extreme agendas. There are in fact people who are just there to help people and save lives free from caring about those agendas they arent counting anything because they dont have access to Gaza. Thats why everyone uses the numbers from the same unreliable source (UNRWA? Cant remember the name) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 8 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said: they arent counting anything because they dont have access to Gaza. Thats why everyone uses the numbers from the same unreliable source (UNRWA? Cant remember the name) Gaza isn't the only place people are dying. And I would suggest neither side is giving honest numbers as both sides are giving figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 5 hours ago, Ilunga said: It appears you like to make numbers up to suit yourself. 25,000 Terrorists killed ? Is this another roman myth ? According to the IDF as reported by the New York Times, just over 3 weeks ago, 17th July. " Israel gives an indication of the wars toll on Hamas' The military said that it had killed or captured around 14,000 combatants in Gaza since the wars start but left considerable ambiguity about the figure " https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/17/world/middleeast/israel-gaza-hamas-leaders-killed.html " Israel's military says that it has killed or captured around 14,000 combatants in Gaza since the war began there nine months ago and unverifiable and ambiguous number that gives a measure of Israel's assessment of its progress towards Benjamins Netanyahu's stated goal of destroying Hamas. " So the IDF claims 14,000 and you claim 25,000. What's your source roman ? Step 1 - open Google Step 2 - type in “definition of sarcasm” Step 3 - read Step 4 - try to comprehend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 28 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I have this funny feeling that individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids etc all counting the dead bodies of kids are going in fairly impartial. I personally don't believe bias is achieved until after the counting is done. Critical thinking is understanding that while both players in the fight have extreme agendas. There are in fact people who are just there to help people and save lives free from caring about those agendas There are no impartial “individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids, etc” on the ground in Gaza. All their local employees are Hamas affiliates. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 The numbers come from Hamas, filtered through the PA in the west bank and delivered to the UN. I believe the total is roughly accurate, 40,000 dead at the moment. We can argue all day about how big the pie wedges are, but at the end of the day, I am somewhat relieved that the toll has stopped climbing at the alarming rates it was in the first 4 or 5 months. Everyone said stop bombing innocents and put boots on the ground to fight the belligerents. Israel did that. I hope they can ferret out Yoyo sin war and finish the job sooner than later so the death toll stops all together. 15k dead terrorists? 10k? 20? Once Hamas surrenders the war is over. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Does anyone need a reminder that a Hamas Dr (Hamas Health Department is where the numbers originate from)was literally keeping hostages in his house that a few weeks ago were rescued? His son: a member of the press ALSO held hostages. Hamas are terrorists, believing anything they say about children and women dying at the hands of Israel is foolish. Yes there are way too many civvies dying in Gaza, and it is also true that that is Hamas' tactics and fault. Full stop in my opinion. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 12 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Gaza isn't the only place people are dying. And I would suggest neither side is giving honest numbers as both sides are giving figures What do other places have to do with the conflict in Gaza? Thats where the numbers we were discussing are from, other places are not relevant to that discussion. As to the accuracy of the numbers, of course they arent going to be accurate, they are estimates. But I would go with Israel to be more accurate than Hamas. Its like choosing to believe Russia over Ukraine, when one party is known to use lies, misleading and out of context information to push an agenda vs one who doesnt, id choose the latter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: I have this funny feeling that individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids etc all counting the dead bodies of kids are going in fairly impartial. I personally don't believe bias is achieved until after the counting is done. Critical thinking is understanding that while both players in the fight have extreme agendas. There are in fact people who are just there to help people and save lives free from caring about those agendas Agreed on that front but that has nothing to do with the media and so called fact checkers that relay information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taxi Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: The numbers come from Hamas, filtered through the PA in the west bank and delivered to the UN. I believe the total is roughly accurate, 40,000 dead at the moment. We can argue all day about how big the pie wedges are, but at the end of the day, I am somewhat relieved that the toll has stopped climbing at the alarming rates it was in the first 4 or 5 months. Everyone said stop bombing innocents and put boots on the ground to fight the belligerents. Israel did that. I hope they can ferret out Yoyo sin war and finish the job sooner than later so the death toll stops all together. 15k dead terrorists? 10k? 20? Once Hamas surrenders the war is over. This is correct. The numbers come from the Hamas Authorities, and the UN gets them. The numbers also already include about 10,000 people who are unaccounted for. These are people that may be buried in the rubble. Hamas has almost certainly exaggerated the death toll. They do so after every strike that Israel makes. Hamas also has history of fudging numbers related to women and children killed. They often exaggerate the numbers initially and then bring them down later. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 2 hours ago, Yoshiyoshi said: What do other places have to do with the conflict in Gaza? Thats where the numbers we were discussing are from, other places are not relevant to that discussion. As to the accuracy of the numbers, of course they arent going to be accurate, they are estimates. But I would go with Israel to be more accurate than Hamas. Its like choosing to believe Russia over Ukraine, when one party is known to use lies, misleading and out of context information to push an agenda vs one who doesnt, id choose the latter. Because settler are still killing people in the west bank and stealing home/lands. it's kind of part and parcel to the larger picture isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Looking forward to seeing the new parking lot the US is set to build in the middle east. Some beautiful mountains in the area and dark skies. Apparently this new parking lot could be built as early as next week. Jokes aside. Within 24 hours after the first stupid move, if the US and Israel are serious. Irans ability to make war is going to be completely neutered and their ability to wage war will be bombed back to the 1920s. I guess they don't remember what happened back in the 80s with Preying Mantis. And that was considered back then a very minimal response from the US The United States has prepared for what could be significant attacks on Israel by Iran or its proxies in the Middle East as soon as this week, White House national security spokesperson John Kirby said on Monday. Kirby told reporters that the U.S. had increased its regional force posture in recent days and shared Israel's concerns about a possible Iranian-backed attack after Iran and Palestinian Islamist group Hamas accused Israel of carrying out the assassination of a Hamas leader in Tehran last month. Austin has ordered the deployment of a guided missile submarine to the Middle East. The U.S. military had already said it would deploy additional fighter jets and navy warships to the region to bolster Israeli defences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWMc1 Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 I posted as a link because this video has some graphic images of abuse and hanging LGBTQ humans from a crane in Iran. It's from 2 years ago but the laws and punishment are still the same. I can't believe that so many people still side with Iran. https://youtu.be/hGjqibhMYyI 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 4 hours ago, RomanPer said: Step 1 - open Google Step 2 - type in “definition of sarcasm” Step 3 - read Step 4 - try to comprehend So you believe the number of dead women and children in Gaza is something to be sarcastic about. This illustrates the exactly what sort or person you are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 4 hours ago, Warhippy said: Gaza isn't the only place people are dying. And I would suggest neither side is giving honest numbers as both sides are giving figures The dilemma of this war? Also from a reporting standpoint is that there is such massive coverage of ''a school'' being attacked. This occurred in Ukraine as well, think Bucha. But the Russians were widely reported as accumulated in the schools as staging grounds. Massacring the men, raping the women. Herding everyone in to school basements. But even then... Aside from the Blitzcrieg at the beginning most territories had, at least usually, a choice of evacuating prior. There is no place to move people. Should the tunnels be underneath, it seems obvious they are? And the terrorists, are they staging among (?); they certainly also are. All that is reported, by quote / unquote by ''unbiased'' reports is the deaths of women & children. I spotted ten plus articles and videos which had no coverage of the terror cell of 19 odd senior defense figures. None. I saw others which said Israel was lying about it. Understandably, collectively its had an effect? The war started with bunker busting bombs, buildings coming down on people in massive numbers. The death toll was horrific. This has slowed. Any death is tragic; yet now we are almost at a trickle comparatively. While the IDF, obviously, is still targeting what they feel they have to. Israel is clearly aware now of the scorn it faces for doing so. Is vastly more strategic about when & if this occurs. Deaths are in the tens, not hundreds, or thousands & with these compound type events? 50 or 100 extra, depending who you are listening to on event days. People like yourself, my wife. It does not matter that there are cells; if there are kids, citizens, the school is NO GO. Same for hospitals. She works in hospitals, zero tolerance in her mind. Yet without an evacuation outlet for refugee's. Unless you believe Sinwar is worthy of being left to take more hostages, on more Oct 7ths? These wars will perpetually be a problem, as they have been for 80 years. The problem is people cannot escape. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, Warhippy said: Because settler are still killing people in the west bank and stealing home/lands. it's kind of part and parcel to the larger picture isn't it? no its not, its a separate issue with a separate government. the settlers stealing land are criminals but that has nothing to do with Gaza and Hamas unless there has been some land taken in Gaza recently that i havent heard about? West Bank and the Palestinian Authority are not related to Hamas and Gaza so when arguing about things related to one side or the other dont start dragging in other problems to confuse the issue. Its fine if you want to make a statement about the overall issues in the Middle East to refer to West Bank and Iran/Hezbollah(spelling?) but this conversation started with the numbers given out by those in Gaza which has nothing to do with the other parties. It just confuses the issue and derails the discussion. I do have to amend my earlier statement in this post, what you posted is related to the larger picture and is perfectly valid in a discussion about the larger picture issues. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RomanPer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 8 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said: no its not, its a separate issue with a separate government. the settlers stealing land are criminals but that has nothing to do with Gaza and Hamas unless there has been some land taken in Gaza recently that i havent heard about? West Bank and the Palestinian Authority are not related to Hamas and Gaza so when arguing about things related to one side or the other dont start dragging in other problems to confuse the issue. Its fine if you want to make a statement about the overall issues in the Middle East to refer to West Bank and Iran/Hezbollah(spelling?) but this conversation started with the numbers given out by those in Gaza which has nothing to do with the other parties. It just confuses the issue and derails the discussion. I do have to amend my earlier statement in this post, what you posted is related to the larger picture and is perfectly valid in a discussion about the larger picture issues. That statement that you quoted from Warhippy is so misleading and manipulative. He makes it sound like it's something that is happening every day in every settlement by every settler. Which is very far from the truth. He's taking individual cases and turns them into wide spread fact. It's no different than saying "every first nation person is an alcoholic or a drug addict". It would be completely ridiculous, obviously. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 Another problem is some could never escape? Its cultural, well, enforced as so no less, in Gaza. Look at Sinwars growth; he started as an enforcer / thug. Who murdered collaborators and those who did not adopt his religion, its version of Sharia law. Families, encouraged by their Mullah at Mosque, their teacher at their (UNRWA) school. Teach their kids they would live in paradise if they died in the name of Allah. Paid tolls to receive goods through tunnels, but were given food both in the streets and in neighbouring families. As long as they were part of the cause. Conformity is not an option. Outliers are eliminated. Otherwise have to find a way to escape. Nor does Egypt, Iraq, want those who conform to the wrong prophet. Disrupt ''the community'' in their nation. Many even criticize Europe, now with RW protests about immigration, for not accepting enough refugee's. When their policy is ZERO refugee's. Yet they are happy to accept tax free money, officials paid off by the Brotherhood. A blind eye as massive profits are made to smuggle goods through tunnels. Local news will run a story how this is a way of life; a conflict of West versus everyone else lifestyles. US colonialism is to blame. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 11 minutes ago, Yoshiyoshi said: West Bank and the Palestinian Authority I believe you are underestimating this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoshiyoshi Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said: I believe you are underestimating this. im gonna need a bit more context here, not sure what you are trying to say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 1 hour ago, RWMc1 said: I can't believe that so many people still side with Iran. Who's siding with Iran? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 4 hours ago, RomanPer said: There are no impartial “individuals from the UN, unicef, kids aids, etc” on the ground in Gaza. All their local employees are Hamas affiliates. You just can't stop lying. In this article there is an actual photo of a UNICEF spokesperson, an Australian, Tess Ingram, interacting with kids at the Tel al Soltan stadium camp in Rafah. https://abcnews.go.com/International/inside-gazas-mental-health-crisis-impacting-civilians-aid/story?id=110257381 Here is an article about a Canadian doctor Yipeng Gi who risked his life going to Gaza to help people https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/university-ottawa-doctor-gaza-palestine-yipeng-ge-1.7126299 And then there were the foreign aid workers from Britain, Poland, dual Canadian - US citizen and Australian that Israel murdered back in April. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68711282 And Tess continues to risk her life travelling to Gaza to help children. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-02/australian-aid-worker-lack-of-progress-zomi-frankcom/104178690 Your comments are an insult to foreign aid workers that risk their lives to help others, while you sit behind your keyboard lying about them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 17 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Who's siding with Iran? Depends on the net you want to throw. We've been over some of the protests stuff and who's funding it, seems to be some links there. When it comes to Iran its pretty clear that their awful government doesn't represent the majority of the people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 3 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Depends on the net you want to throw. We've been over some of the protests stuff and who's funding it, seems to be some links there. When it comes to Iran its pretty clear that their awful government doesn't represent the majority of the people. Oh I thought the dude meant some peope in this thread. My father-in-law doesnt even side with Iran. To your point. I dont think most people protesting in NA to support the Palestinian people also think Iran is good beans, at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 5 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: The numbers come from Hamas, filtered through the PA in the west bank and delivered to the UN. I believe the total is roughly accurate, 40,000 dead at the moment. We can argue all day about how big the pie wedges are, but at the end of the day, I am somewhat relieved that the toll has stopped climbing at the alarming rates it was in the first 4 or 5 months. Everyone said stop bombing innocents and put boots on the ground to fight the belligerents. Israel did that. I hope they can ferret out Yoyo sin war and finish the job sooner than later so the death toll stops all together. 15k dead terrorists? 10k? 20? Once Hamas surrenders the war is over. Everyone seems to be forgetting about the 80,000 casualties. Remember me posting about the number of kids who have lost limbs in Gaza https://www.newyorker.com/news/dispatch/the-children-who-lost-limbs-in-gaza " This is the biggest cohort of paediatric amputees in history " Ghassan Abu-Sittah a London - based plastic - and reconstructive surgeon who specialises in paediatric trauma, told me recently. " In many cases they were amputating kids limbs without Anesthesia, because they didn't have the supplies. Sure Hamas has to carry part of the blame for this, but so does Israel. History will damn both Hamas and Isreal for the crimes against humanity that have been committed in this conflict. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 12 Share Posted August 12 16 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Oh I thought the dude meant some peope in this thread. My father-in-law doesnt even side with Iran. To your point. I dont think most people protesting in NA to support the Palestinian people also think Iran is good beans, at all. As the title of this article, and this article illustrates " What do the Iranians think of Israel? Their views might surprise you " https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/iransource/israel-hamas-iran-views/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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