Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

12 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

" For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule "

 

I'm not sure you should be proud to post this. Its incitement.

 

Israel fought two wars in that period against Hamas.  Nor was Bibi in power for that 14 years. Bibi further did not promote Hamas to execute Oct 7. To preserve his own rule?

 

Its also an Opinion piece. Another editorial from an opposing view. Trumpeting it, which is a good word, because it incites division.  I realize he stated, and you quoted, a play on words.  But its promoting what pisses people off. More important; it is not quoting Bibi. Its quoting Adam Raz. 

 

Adam Raz, who's career is criticizing Israel. Not solving problems. My observation.

 

Why is it incitement?  Keep telling people, about black people stealing food, behaving untowards?  A lynch mob will surface. Fueling peoples distrust.  Its how Tony Abbot,almost accidentally, became prime minister in Australia. Its how Donald Trump riles up everybody. Its how enough Truckers got fuelled up to block Ottawa. Very little of which solved anything for those who participated. 

 

Nobody in Israel promoted Hamas to execute Oct 7.

 

Israel should report that that they would welcome a peaceful move to have Palestinians restore administration over Judea, Samaria, Gaza. Request that it be a place where all cultures, religions if thats important, are welcome? Lets speak about transition!

 

[Ilunga]

 

 

 

42 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I'm not sure you should be proud to post this. Its incitement.

 

Israel fought two wars in that period against Hamas.  Nor was Bibi in power for that 14 years. Bibi further did not promote Hamas to execute Oct 7. To preserve his own rule?

 

Its also an Opinion piece. Another editorial from an opposing view. Trumpeting it, which is a good word, because it incites division.  I realize he stated, and you quoted, a play on words.  But its promoting what pisses people off. More important; it is not quoting Bibi. Its quoting Adam Raz. 

 

Adam Raz, who's career is criticizing Israel. Not solving problems. My observation.

 

Why is it incitement?  Keep telling people, about black people stealing food, behaving untowards?  A lynch mob will surface. Fueling peoples distrust.  Its how Tony Abbot,almost accidentally, became prime minister in Australia. Its how Donald Trump riles up everybody. Its how enough Truckers got fuelled up to block Ottawa. Very little of which solved anything for those who participated. 

 

Nobody in Israel promoted Hamas to execute Oct 7.

 

Israel should report that that they would welcome a peaceful move to have Palestinians restore administration over Judea, Samaria, Gaza. Request that it be a place where all cultures, religions if thats important, are welcome? Lets speak about transition!

 

 

I am not " proud " of anything.

 

Do you think the people/Isrealis who wrote that article are " proud " they wrote it. 

 

Why do you believe they wrote that article and stated those things ?

 

Do you believe they are lying. 

 

Here is another source

 

" Why Netanyahu Bolstered Hamas " 

 

" The Isreali Prime Minister followed a decades old divide and rule strate that fuels endless war " 

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

 

" The same is true of Netanyahu's longstanding policy of bolstering Hamas' rule in Gaza including encouraging Israels defacto ally Qatar to finance the terrorist organisation. "  

 

" In 2015 Bezalel Smotrich, currently the finance minister in Netanyahu's government summed up the strategy, by stating, " The Palestinian Authority is a burden, Hamas is an asset " 

 

According to the Times, as far back as December 2012, Netanyahu told the prominent Isreali journalist Dan Margalit, that it was important to keep Hamas strong as a counterweight to the Palestinian authority in the west bank. Mr Margalit in an interview, said that Mr Netanyahu told him, that having two strong rivals would lessen pressure on him to to negotiate towards a Palestinian state. Mr Netanyahu denies this conversation" 

 

Now who is the proven liar mate, Mr Margalit or that lying corrupt piece of work Netanyahu.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-nation/

 

HIGH FACTUAL REPORTING 

HIGH CREDIBILITY 

 

And here is another source, the New York Times 

 

" 'Buying Quiet': Inside the Isreali plan that propped up Hamas " 

 

" Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas ( but not too strong ) would keep the peace and reduce the pressure for a Palestinian peace. "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

 

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/time-fact-checks-netanyahu-interview-countering-his-denial-of-bankrolling-hamas/

 

" In the fact - check Time said Qatar began funneling money to 2007 during the term of Netanyahu's predecessor Ehud Olmert, however Olmert did not directly facilitate, the funds as opposed to Netanyahu Time said. "

 

 

How many more sources would you like. 

 

The fact of the matter CS is that Netanyahu Propped up Hamas, to paraphrase his words, from another article I have posted in the past 

" Anyone who doesn't want a Palestinian state should support Hamas' "

 

I am not very happy with you CS for claiming I am promoting hate. 

 

Are you denying that all these sources, with a reputation for high factual reporting and high credibility are lying/wrong ?

 

Are they promoting hate by writing and distributing these articles ? 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

 

And yet another source @Canuck Surfer

 

" How Netanyahu's policy came back to haunt him and Isreal " 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/netanyahu-israel-gaza-hamas-1.7010035

 

" The symbiotic relationship between Hamas and Netanyahu has been remarked on for years, by both friends and enemies and Hawks and doves.

 

Yuval Diskin, former head of Israel's Shin Bet security service,  told the daily newspaper Yedioth in 2013 that, " if we look at it over the years one of the main people contributing to to Hamas's strengthening has been Bibi Netanyahu since his first term as Prime Minister ". 

 

Is CBC inciting Canadians by publishing this article.

 

Is it all these media institutions " job " to criticise Israel. 

 

Are all the Israelis in these articles inciting by stating the truth ?

 

How many sources do you need to tell you something, before you accept it is the truth. 

[Taxi]

54 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

 

 

I am not " proud " of anything.

 

Do you think the people/Isrealis who wrote that article are " proud " they wrote it. 

 

Why do you believe they wrote that article and stated those things ?

 

Do you believe they are lying. 

 

Here is another source

 

" Why Netanyahu Bolstered Hamas " 

 

" The Isreali Prime Minister followed a decades old divide and rule strate that fuels endless war " 

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

 

" The same is true of Netanyahu's longstanding policy of bolstering Hamas' rule in Gaza including encouraging Israels defacto ally Qatar to finance the terrorist organisation. "  

 

" In 2015 Bezalel Smotrich, currently the finance minister in Netanyahu's government summed up the strategy, by stating, " The Palestinian Authority is a burden, Hamas is an asset " 

 

According to the Times, as far back as December 2012, Netanyahu told the prominent Isreali journalist Dan Margalit, that it was important to keep Hamas strong as a counterweight to the Palestinian authority in the west bank. Mr Margalit in an interview, said that Mr Netanyahu told him, that having two strong rivals would lessen pressure on him to to negotiate towards a Palestinian state. Mr Netanyahu denies this conversation" 

 

Now who is the proven liar mate, Mr Margalit or that lying corrupt piece of work Netanyahu.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-nation/

 

HIGH FACTUAL REPORTING 

HIGH CREDIBILITY 

 

And here is another source, the New York Times 

 

" 'Buying Quiet': Inside the Isreali plan that propped up Hamas " 

 

" Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas ( but not too strong ) would keep the peace and reduce the pressure for a Palestinian peace. "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

 

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/time-fact-checks-netanyahu-interview-countering-his-denial-of-bankrolling-hamas/

 

" In the fact - check Time said Qatar began funneling money to 2007 during the term of Netanyahu's predecessor Ehud Olmert, however Olmert did not directly facilitate, the funds as opposed to Netanyahu Time said. "

 

 

How many more sources would you like. 

 

The fact of the matter CS is that Netanyahu Propped up Hamas, to paraphrase his words, from another article I have posted in the past 

" Anyone who doesn't want a Palestinian state should support Hamas' "

 

I am not very happy with you CS for claiming I am promoting hate. 

 

Are you denying that all these sources, with a reputation for high factual reporting and high credibility are lying/wrong ?

 

Are they promoting hate by writing and distributing these articles ? 

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure how many times we have to go through this.....

 

Netanyahu made a deal with Qatar to send the money directly to social services, which was the better option over having it go to Hamas' general funds. Parroting a bunch of sensationalist headlines doesn't change the facts.

 

Israel was under immense international pressure to improve the standard of living in Gaza. They then approached Qatar, who was already giving funds to Hamas, to form a deal to have the funds diverted to humanitarian projects. Gaza is corrupt and some of that money ended up in the hands of Hamas.

 

So, once again, are you suggesting that Israel should block humanitarian projects in Gaza? They should freeze the fund of outside nations trying to give humanitarian aid to Gaza? This is what you are suggesting the correct path is?

[Canuck Surfer]

30 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

 

 

I am not " proud " of anything.

 

Do you think the people/Isrealis who wrote that article are " proud " they wrote it. 

 

Why do you believe they wrote that article and stated those things ?

 

Do you believe they are lying. 

 

Here is another source

 

" Why Netanyahu Bolstered Hamas " 

 

" The Isreali Prime Minister followed a decades old divide and rule strate that fuels endless war " 

 

https://www.thenation.com/article/world/why-netanyahu-bolstered-hamas/

 

" The same is true of Netanyahu's longstanding policy of bolstering Hamas' rule in Gaza including encouraging Israels defacto ally Qatar to finance the terrorist organisation. "  

 

" In 2015 Bezalel Smotrich, currently the finance minister in Netanyahu's government summed up the strategy, by stating, " The Palestinian Authority is a burden, Hamas is an asset " 

 

According to the Times, as far back as December 2012, Netanyahu told the prominent Isreali journalist Dan Margalit, that it was important to keep Hamas strong as a counterweight to the Palestinian authority in the west bank. Mr Margalit in an interview, said that Mr Netanyahu told him, that having two strong rivals would lessen pressure on him to to negotiate towards a Palestinian state. Mr Netanyahu denies this conversation" 

 

Now who is the proven liar mate, Mr Margalit or that lying corrupt piece of work Netanyahu.

 

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-nation/

 

HIGH FACTUAL REPORTING 

HIGH CREDIBILITY 

 

And here is another source, the New York Times 

 

" 'Buying Quiet': Inside the Isreali plan that propped up Hamas " 

 

" Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu gambled that a strong Hamas ( but not too strong ) would keep the peace and reduce the pressure for a Palestinian peace. "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html

 

 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/time-fact-checks-netanyahu-interview-countering-his-denial-of-bankrolling-hamas/

 

" In the fact - check Time said Qatar began funneling money to 2007 during the term of Netanyahu's predecessor Ehud Olmert, however Olmert did not directly facilitate, the funds as opposed to Netanyahu Time said. "

 

 

How many more sources would you like. 

 

The fact of the matter CS is that Netanyahu Propped up Hamas, to paraphrase his words, from another article I have posted in the past 

" Anyone who doesn't want a Palestinian state should support Hamas' "

 

I am not very happy with you CS for claiming I am promoting hate. 

 

Are you denying that all these sources, with a reputation for high factual reporting and high credibility are lying/wrong ?

 

Are they promoting hate by writing and distributing these articles ? 

 

 

 

 

You missed the point.  Are they promoting hate? No I don't believe so. Nor do I believe its your intent. I don't. 

 

Its a clear by-product nonetheless. I think you have gleamed the wrong message from the reporting, which has a factual basis. It's remains spun by Bibi, Trump, Hamas to hold power or get elected as you say. Keep repeating it.

 

Read the quote you posted; " For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule " It's crafted to sound like Bibi, that he wanted Oct 7. It will bring out the worst in those who hate Israel & Hamas. Its stated from anger, not solutions. I watched Barrack Obama's speech yesterday, also Michelle's who was even better. 'Look at all the hate & division in this country, in this world? We have to be better than that!'

 

 

 

Look at the reaction your quote draws. Why repeat all the hateful messages. The politics of hate!

 

We need solutions.  Israel should say, or perhaps even have an opposition member say;

 

- ''Our policy has reasons, our people own fault!''

 

- The world condemns us for having a security zone in West Bank. Yet sometimes more than 2000 missiles a year are fired at civilian area's.

- Its why there is a security zone, and a siege on Gaza. 

- It does not excuse raids on Palestinian settlements, innocents suffering; then extremists flocking to buy vacated land for pennies on the dollar.

- Or see the govt. try to make Judicial Reforms; so no one can be held accountable!

- 'Jews have suffered violence, we don't want it to be our legacy!'

 

Israeli's if you want our hostages back?  'Help us communicate we will block such reforms, impart a stronger message that a home, your home Palestinians, will evolve as we also work on removing a risk of terror.'  I readily admit a much more active opposition preaching justice would help enormously Dave! 

 

The same is true of Palestinians. Their constituents have to find a way to communicate those missiles will not rain over the border also. 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

I'm not sure how many times we have to go through this.....

 

Netanyahu made a deal with Qatar to send the money directly to social services, which was the better option over having it go to Hamas' general funds. Parroting a bunch of sensationalist headlines doesn't change the facts.

 

Israel was under immense international pressure to improve the standard of living in Gaza. They then approached Qatar, who was already giving funds to Hamas, to form a deal to have the funds diverted to humanitarian projects. Gaza is corrupt and some of that money ended up in the hands of Hamas.

 

So, once again, are you suggesting that Israel should block humanitarian projects in Gaza? They should freeze the fund of outside nations trying to give humanitarian aid to Gaza? This is what you are suggesting the correct path is?

 

Hasbara, you can bullshit all you like.

 

Isreali analysts, International analysts, all state, Netanyahu was bolstering Hamas' so as to counter a two state solution, by dividing the Palestinians into two camps.

The Islamic fundamentalists and the secular PLO.

 

 

I will take the word of a head of the Shin Bet, amongst others, over a hasbara troll. 

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

The same is true of Palestinians. Their constituents have to find a way to communicate those missiles will not rain over the border also. 

 

@Taxi  Take up a challenge. Note I just posted some suggestions for Israel. Everything needs a starting point.

 

What can Palestinian leaders communicate, commit to that will help lead to peace?

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

I am not very happy with you CS for claiming I am promoting hate. 

 

I am going to repeat myself; your post will incite hate.  Promote means it was your intent, which is different.

 

\

[Ilunga]

Just now, Canuck Surfer said:

 

You missed the point.  Are they promoting hate? No I don't believe so. Nor do I believe its your intent. I don't. 

 

Its a clear by-product nonetheless. I think you have gleamed the wrong message from the reporting, which has a factual basis. It's remains spun by Bibi, Trump, Hamas to hold power or get elected as you say. Keep repeating it.

 

Read the quote you posted; " For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule " It's crafted to sound like Bibi, that he wanted Oct 7. It will bring out the worst in those who hate Israel & Hamas. Its stated from anger, not solutions. I watched Barrack Obama's speech yesterday, also Michelle's who was even better. 'Look at all the hate & division in this country, in this world? We have to be better than that!'

 

 

 

Look at the reaction your quote draws. Why repeat all the hateful messages. The politics of hate!

 

We need solutions.  Israel should say, or perhaps even have an opposition member say;

 

- ''Our policy has reasons, our people own fault!''

 

- The world condemns us for having a security zone in West Bank. Yet sometimes more than 2000 missiles a year are fired at civilian area's.

- Its why there is a security zone, and a siege on Gaza. 

- It does not excuse raids on Palestinian settlements, innocents suffering; then extremists flocking to buy vacated land for pennies on the dollar.

- Or see the govt. try to make Judicial Reforms; so no one can be held accountable!

- 'Jews have suffered violence, we don't want it to be our legacy!'

 

Israeli's if you want our hostages back?  'Help us communicate we will block such reforms, impart a stronger message that a home, your home Palestinians, will evolve as we also work on removing a risk of terror.'  I readily admit a much more active opposition preaching justice would help enormously Dave! 

 

The same is true of Palestinians. Their constituents have to find a way to communicate those missiles will not rain over the border also. 

 

That's your interpretation of the article. 

No Israeli would want an attack like October 7.

 

I can tell you this, Netanyahu is the exactly like trump, he cares more about keeping power, than he does about the victims of October 7.

Do you doubt this ?

 

So what you are stating, is journalists can't criticize their governments, because that makes them biased. 

 

What would have helped from the start is that the leaders from both sides worked together for peace.

 

As one of those articles stated, Hamas' and Netanyahu have a symbiotic relationship.

They help each other stay in power.

And they believe that helping each other helps their own agendas.

Hamas' realises this, as does Netanyahu. 

 

1200 Israelis paid the price for this on October 7.

 

Tens of thousands of Palestinians have paid the price since then.

 

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I am going to repeat myself; your post will incite hate.  Promote means it was your intent, which is different.

 

\

 

I have never incited hate in my life. 

 

Again, are the Isreali media organisations inciting hate in Isreal by publishing those articles ?

 

Is the New York Times inciting hate in the US publishing their article ?

 

Is the CBC inciting Hate in Canada publishing their article ?

 

Telling the truth, is not inciting hate.

Certainly not in this case. 

 

 

[Ilunga]

@Canuck Surfer

 

You seem to be confused as to what inciting hate actually is. 

 

To incite hate is to publicly encourage others to hate another person or group because of particular personal characteristics. 

 

Where, in any post I have ever posted on this or the old board, have I encouraged anyone to hate anyone/anything.

I actually promote the opposite of hate, peace.

I have been called a pacifist and an idealist.

 

While I have criticised Netanyahu, and by extension Isreal for funding/supporting Hamas', I have not, nor will not encourage anyone to hate Netanyahu, let alone Israelis.

 

How many times have I stated hate is such a waste of emotion.

Hate only hurts those who carry hate in their heart.

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

No Israeli would want an attack like October 7.

 

Then why was it in the same quote. Not just the same quote, the same sentence as a supposition Netanyahu supports Hamas?

 

That goes well beyond a responsible reporter doing his job.  There is an intended message; its all Bibi's fault! If you cannot smell bias, you are lucky to have a small nose? Taxi does not believe you. Quotes a completely different set of circumstances.  I firmly believe Mossad, Shin Bet, Bibi have all played politics, counter intelligence in Gaza.  I do think Hamas might have looked different without such interference. 

 

Not much different. Just timing, maybe not OCT 7th! Albeit that is just my opinion. Bibi is hardly an influential supplier. Just inflames ideology. Iran is not their purpose either. Just means to an end. Bibi only a fly swatter who has tens of thousands of elusive bugs to swat. The swatter has trouble fitting down rabbit holes. Ideology is the driving factor for Hamas; their purpose, their existence. 

 

Blaming someone else deflects from accountability Hamas needs to bring to the table.

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Then why was it in the same quote. Not just the same quote, the same sentence as a supposition Netanyahu supports Hamas?

 

That goes well beyond a responsible reporter doing his job.  There is an intended message; its all Bibi's fault! If you cannot smell bias, you are lucky to have a small nose? Taxi does not believe you. Quotes a completely different set of circumstances.  I firmly believe Mossad, Shin Bet, Bibi have all played politics, counter intelligence in Gaza.  I do think Hamas might have looked different without such interference. 

 

Not much different. Just timing, maybe not OCT 7th! Albeit that is just my opinion. Bibi is hardly an influential supplier. Just inflames ideology. Iran is not their purpose either. Just means to an end. Bibi only a fly swatter who has tens of thousands of elusive bugs to swat. The swatter has trouble fitting down rabbit holes. Ideology is the driving factor for Hamas; their purpose, their existence. 

 

Blaming someone else deflects from accountability Hamas needs to bring to the table.

 

How does stating the fact that Netanyahu, and others in the Isreali government who supported Hamas for their own ends, deflect from Hamas's accountability ?

 

Wouldn't you say Hamas is being held to account  ?

Both in word and deed.

By that I mean every civilised person condemns them.

Every media organisation condemns them.

And the Isrealis are killing them. 

 

Speaking for our own little community, we have held them accountable for the actions.

We all condemn their actions, pre October 7, and since then.

 

taxi is a hasbara troll.

He does not post in any other thread, or interact in any other way on this board.

He is known to blatantly lie.

How many times do I have to state, he claimed I denied the Jewish people did not have historical ties to Isreal when literally the page before I had mentioned the first and second temple amongst other historical ties the Jewish people have to Isreal. 

 

Believe what you want.

The evidence from so many credible sources is there for all to see. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

To incite hate is to publicly encourage others to hate another person or group because of particular personal characteristics. 

 

Maybe incite is not a perfect choice of words.

 

I believe your source chose his quote specifically to inflame Jews. Lets go there? I remain sure you will piss practically everybody off with his statements.

 

Its hard to imagine his bias doesn't register. Which you saw as neutral.  I think he hates Israelis almost more than Hamas do.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

How does stating the fact that Netanyahu, and others in the Isreali government who supported Hamas for their own ends, deflect from Hamas's accountability

 

Hamas is Hamas.

 

My feedback is they would have been with, or without Netanyahu & a different message would go much farther. 

[Ilunga]

15 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Maybe incite is not a perfect choice of words.

 

I believe your source chose his quote specifically to inflame Jews. Lets go there? I remain sure you will piss practically everybody off with his statements.

 

Its hard to imagine his bias doesn't register. Which you saw as neutral.  I think he hates Israelis almost more than Hamas do.

 

 

 

Yeah well I took great offense mate.

You stated I was inciting hate.

 

That's crossing a line accusing someone on inciting hatred. 

 

How many times have I stated that the only thing I really hate is injustice.

 

[Ilunga]

10 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Hamas is Hamas.

 

My feedback is they would have been with, or without Netanyahu & a different message would go much farther. 

 

If course Hamas is a bunch of radical Islamist terrorists.

 

But you have to ask the question, if Isreal didn't help the Islamic fundamentalists at the start, would they have been in the position to challenge the secular PLO ?

 

We will never know.

 

What is a fact, is that Hamas's actions hurt both the Isreali and Palestinian people.

 

Anyone who has helped them in anyway is a party to all the shit that has happened for the better part of the last 20 years.

[Optimist Prime]

I have been following a thread in a Swedish-Finns social media chat group that has until recently not really talked about the War with Hamas/Israel. A few days ago some protesters pictures from Helsinki, or Helsingfors to the Swedes, showed some generally pro Palestinian Protesters like I have seen even in my hometown here on Vancouver Island throughout the summer. The overwhelming comments lean towards not supporting Hamas or Hezbollah and Iran while some Finns are posting thoughts against Israel, the IDF and some even just go right after 'jews' in general. It is anecdotal but about 85% support for Israel is the trendline there, and 15% support for Palestine. Most folks are posting that Hamas and Hezbollah have to go, while most of the pro Palestinian posts talk about the civilian lives being lost, which I think is a tragedy and should be talked about, but maybe 3% to 5% of the posts are literally going after Jews as evil. That part is disturbing. Very little nuanced positions like I share: Hamas has to go and the civilians need to be protected better while that happens.
A newer post this morning caught my eye though and I had not seen it before now. I tend to think this is accurate.

[RomanPer]

2 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Hasbara, you can bullshit all you like.

 

Isreali analysts, International analysts, all state, Netanyahu was bolstering Hamas' so as to counter a two state solution, by dividing the Palestinians into two camps.

The Islamic fundamentalists and the secular PLO.

 

 

I will take the word of a head of the Shin Bet, amongst others, over a hasbara troll. 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you even know what the word "Hasbara" means in Hebrew? The moment you use it in this context, you immediately put yourself into the "from the river to the sea" crowd because only them use this absolutely innocent word as something with bad connotation.

[Canuck Surfer]

52 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

The evidence from so many credible sources is there for all to see

 

Evidence; and statements that sound like they are inside information of Bibi benefitting from it, or intending to are insane. This is the direct quote you posted. There is a clear insinuation there. Its very irresponsible. Get over being stuck on Israeli counter intelligence missions. Or whether its true! Odds are you do not know enough about what occurred & why. Everyone knows they happen. Odds are we will never know exactly what was going on. Israel made serious mistakes. Also quoting it as unbiased? Its amazing you see this as a neutral. This guy has made an entire career out of eviscerating Israeli activity.  6, 7 books? 

 

" For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule "

 

Let me try a similar quote which is just as factual(?);

 

'Benjamin Netanyahu personally signed off on the release from prison of Yahwa Sinwar; The pogrom of Oct 7 13 years later helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule'.

 

 

 

 

Let me spin it an equally irresponsible, possibly just as 'true' direction' >> One widely discussed. Widely accepted.

 

"Netanyahu, driven to rage over guilt in strategic support & personally signing the release of Sinwar + 1026 other Hamas militants? Many who plotted & participated on Oct 7.  Is slowly but surely committing Genocide to remove the three headed monster he helped create!''  

 

 

 

I disagree & wish anyone & everyone would discuss solutions. NONE of these above move the conversation towards peace.  

[RomanPer]

5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Evidence; and statements that sound like they are inside information of Bibi benefitting from it, or intending to are insane. This is the direct quote you posted. There is a clear insinuation there. Its very irresponsible. Get over being stuck on Israeli counter intelligence missions. Or whether its true! Odds are you do not know enough about what occurred & why. Everyone knows they happen. Odds are we will never know exactly what was going on. Israel made serious mistakes. Also quoting it as unbiased? Its amazing you see this as a neutral. This guy has made an entire career out of eviscerating Israeli activity.  6, 7 books? 

 

" For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule "

 

Let me try a similar quote which is just as factual(?);

 

'Benjamin Netanyahu personally signed off on the release from prison of Yahwa Sinwar; The pogrom of Oct 7 13 years later helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule'.

 

 

 

 

Let me spin it an equally irresponsible, possibly just as 'true' direction' >> One widely discussed. Widely accepted.

 

"Netanyahu, driven to rage over guilt in strategic support & personally signing the release of Sinwar + 1026 other Hamas militants? Many who plotted & participated on Oct 7.  Is slowly but surely committing Genocide to remove the three headed monster he helped create!''  

 

 

 

I disagree & wish anyone & everyone would discuss solutions. NONE of these above move the conversation towards peace.  

 

I keep on telling him that just because someone is Jewish or Israeli doesn't make their OPINION any more or any less valid that other in the world. We, as a nation, are just like any other nation - we have differences of OPINION, we have our own idiots too. Yet, he keeps on waving the flag "look, this is Israeli source" like it's some sort of ultimate truth.

[Bob Long]

this story really highlights what I was trying to say above. Everyone seems to have their own need to hijack this conflict and use it or an adjacent movement to make their point. It's a real shame what some folks have been doing to pride celebrations this year.

 

 

Liberal Party of Canada joins growing list backing out of Capital Pride

Some groups vow to host their own events after pro-Palestinian statement

 

 

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/liberal-party-of-canada-joins-growing-list-backing-out-of-capital-pride-1.7298547

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Do you even know what the word "Hasbara" means in Hebrew? The moment you use it in this context, you immediately put yourself into the "from the river to the sea" crowd because only them use this absolutely innocent word as something with bad connotation.

Yeah it is wielded around like an insult these days. 

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

I keep on telling him that just because someone is Jewish or Israeli doesn't make their OPINION any more or any less valid that other in the world. We, as a nation, are just like any other nation - we have differences of OPINION, we have our own idiots too. Yet, he keeps on waving the flag "look, this is Israeli source" like it's some sort of ultimate truth.

Like Bob Long's post up two from this one: There is a very small group of provocateurs working against our collective interests and they ahve a surrounding larger group of for lack of a better way to say it: useful idiots. I have seen it in the lumber disputes around a First Nations group here on Vancouver Island: the right of self determination for resources on Band land was finally allowed to be exercised by the Bands and this one decided to log a very small part of their ancestral lands to raise money to improve the lives of the impoverished people of their nation. 

A U.S. lumber billionaires son now leads a group of protestors trying everything imaginable, and in criminal ways, to stop that harvest. The provocateur has a large herd of useful idiots helping him achieve his goals of disrupting Canadian forestry. 

In the pride events cases, a very small group of provocateurs has a larger herd of useful idiots that are helping them generate headlines and hijack other things, other movements time to be heard and other rights initiatives, hitching the Hamas wagon to progressive issues in a lot of peoples minds. It is, at the end of the day simply attempts at creating a fifth column by drawing on every one of our wish to have no innocents hurt in this conflict. 

 

The same number of Ukrainian Civilians have died in the Donbass, oddly enough I don't see anyone decrying their deaths in that thread on the daily. We are largely united in the west against Putin's regime the way we should Unite against Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran. If we leave Israel to their own devices and allow Hamas and Hezbollah to kill 1200 Israeli's anytime they feel like it, eventually every person in Israel will be murdered. Hamas has to go, at the lowest possible cost to civilian lives. For MONTHS now that goal has been attended to by Israel. 35k dead in the first few months, five k dead in the following half a year.(not exact, just a qualified educated guess) Could it be better? Maybe, but likely not in any other war on earth, so why the over the top vitriol against the Israeli defense of its people and sovereignty? Agent Provocateurs and those they can get to side with them. 

 

EDIT: I should say, i am in loose agreement with the those who agree we shouldn't be stripping our old growth forests and I am in agreement that Palestinian peoples lives very much matter, and those are the loose threads that the agents against our way of democratic life and economic enemies will pull at to help unravel our fabric. This shouldn't be news to anyone, it is a tactic as old as war itself. Look at the argument that Bibi funded or aided Hamas to exist and thrive being bandied about as though that makes a 1200 person massacre okay, or somehow negates the fact Hamas are at this moment in time horrible terrorists bent on murder and the annihilation of Israel. The US funded the Taliban, does that mean the US should have allowed them to give safe harbour to people who flew airplanes into the World Trade Center? "Reagan funded the Taliban, we shouldn't hunt Bin Laden in Afghanistan". Sounds absurd.  FYI: almost a quarter million civilians have died in Afghanistan since 2001, I didn't see too much angst about that in the hunt for Bin Laden, maybe I wasn't reading these off topic forums back then on CDC, but I am glad i didn't if there were good people being used like "useful idiots" in them promoting Bin Ladens sick take on the value of lives overall. ( I use the term because it was famously uttered to describe the kind souls with ultimately good intentions being used by agent provocateurs to aid their goals, not to be insulting)

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Wouldn't you say Hamas is being held to account  ?

No.

 

Is Hamas taking any accountability for peace? Who ask that their militants are released 50 to 1 in return for mostly dead bodies of civilian hostages. Even if they have survived; Many who have been raped.  Their negotiation point; return our militants & let our smuggling channels be re-opened in Rafah. They are not offering to put down their weapons, let the PA or any external help allow representation, administer aid for the people they put directly at risk to extend their extremist reach. Continue their quest.

 

Almost none at all. They who planned & are accepting the death of their people to maintain their hateful ideology. To let the world put put pressure on Israel.