Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

No.

 

Is Hamas taking any accountability for peace? Who ask that their militants are released 50 to 1 in return for mostly dead bodies of civilian hostages. Even if they have survived; Many who have been raped.  Their negotiation point; return our militants & let our smuggling channels be re-opened in Rafah. They are not offering to put down their weapons, let the PA or any external help allow representation, administer aid for the people they put directly at risk to extend their extremist reach. Continue their quest.

 

Almost none at all. They who planned & are accepting the death of their people to maintain their hateful ideology. To let the world put put pressure on Israel. 

 

 

Why would we expect reasonable negotiation from a group of extreme men, happy to use women and kids as cannon fodder? 

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Do you even know what the word "Hasbara" means in Hebrew? The moment you use it in this context, you immediately put yourself into the "from the river to the sea" crowd because only them use this absolutely innocent word as something with bad connotation.

 

Yes I do know what the meaning of the word Hasbara, to explain. 

 

It is also the slang term for Isreali sponsored " trolling " disinformation on the internet.

They even have an app Act IL.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Why would we expect reasonable negotiation from a group of extreme men, happy to use women and kids as cannon fodder? 

 

Its actually worse.

 

I used the analogy why would you start a street fight with Mike Tyson. An opponent you had no hope of beating! They started a war under a delusion their quest was noble. To be clear they did not start the war for their people. It was started for their ideology. The people a tool.  

 

That all residents of the territory and faiths should sede it is their religions manifested right to control all. 

 

Here is the thing. Like Putin believing Ukrainians would welcome them? Hamas believed other Arabic peoples, militant groups, would pile in. What is the problem with that...

 

The other militant groups? Hezbollah, the Brotherhood in Egypt, Houthis. Perhaps Asaad, or resistance in Iraq. And specifically their puppet masters in Iran? Plus there are other groups out there; what is left of ISIS, Al Qaeda. Each have their own sect.  Most with the exact same goal of encompassing glory, power the Holy Land. For eternity!

 

For themselves, not Hamas.

 

Who don't even want their refugee's; who compete with their own gene pool. They are engaged so Hamas can soften up the Jews for their turn?   

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Evidence; and statements that sound like they are inside information of Bibi benefitting from it, or intending to are insane. This is the direct quote you posted. There is a clear insinuation there. Its very irresponsible. Get over being stuck on Israeli counter intelligence missions. Or whether its true! Odds are you do not know enough about what occurred & why. Everyone knows they happen. Odds are we will never know exactly what was going on. Israel made serious mistakes. Also quoting it as unbiased? Its amazing you see this as a neutral. This guy has made an entire career out of eviscerating Israeli activity.  6, 7 books? 

 

" For 14 years Netanyahu's policy was to keep Hamas in power; The pogrom of October 7 2023 helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule "

 

Let me try a similar quote which is just as factual(?);

 

'Benjamin Netanyahu personally signed off on the release from prison of Yahwa Sinwar; The pogrom of Oct 7 13 years later helps the Israeli Prime Minister preserve his own rule'.

 

 

 

 

Let me spin it an equally irresponsible, possibly just as 'true' direction' >> One widely discussed. Widely accepted.

 

"Netanyahu, driven to rage over guilt in strategic support & personally signing the release of Sinwar + 1026 other Hamas militants? Many who plotted & participated on Oct 7.  Is slowly but surely committing Genocide to remove the three headed monster he helped create!''  

 

 

 

I disagree & wish anyone & everyone would discuss solutions. NONE of these above move the conversation towards peace.  

 

So first you have accused an Isreali historian, Adam Raz, of hating Jews more than Hamas'.

Where is you evidence for this ?

The old, you critise Israel and you are an anti semite. 

 

Does Tal Schneider hate Jews for writing 

 

" For years Netanyahu propped up Hamas.

Now it's blown up in our faces " 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

 

Not only did Netanyahu benefit from a militant Hamas in regards to his aim of denying the Palestinian an independent state of their own.

He has made several statements in regards to this.

Before October 7 Netanyahu was a spent political force. 

Now the war in Gaza has helped him immensely politically.  

 

You know that many in Isreal blame Netanyahu for the October 7 attack for various reasons, not just his support for Hamas'.

 

 

You have accused me of inciting hatred.

That's a very serious, and slanderous accusation to make against someone.

 

 

I have pointed out to you what inciting hatred actually is.

You have basically agreed that the article was not even inciting hatred. 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yeah it is wielded around like an insult these days. 

 

Like many Governments, Isreal uses the internet as weapon.

 

https://www.amazon.com/review/ROCGLPRB3HUG

 

" Hasbara tactics 

By controlling information, one can control people and social networks. Hasbara volunteers help police social networks for Israel. The big media are dealt with through BICOM and AIPAC, while the social media is policed unofficially by the hasbara troll brigade. Priority is to stop influencers compromised by anti Israel sentiment. "

 

 

" Hasbara trolls are genuinely quite polite at first. They pop up when somebody is critical of Israel and it's policies. They target, write, educate and insult. "

 

Sound familiar ?

 

Now I don't have a problem with people defending Israel as long as they are truthful, and challenge the information, with credible sources.

 

When they start bullshitting and attack ones character, that's when I start to have a problem.

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

No.

 

Is Hamas taking any accountability for peace? Who ask that their militants are released 50 to 1 in return for mostly dead bodies of civilian hostages. Even if they have survived; Many who have been raped.  Their negotiation point; return our militants & let our smuggling channels be re-opened in Rafah. They are not offering to put down their weapons, let the PA or any external help allow representation, administer aid for the people they put directly at risk to extend their extremist reach. Continue their quest.

 

Almost none at all. They who planned & are accepting the death of their people to maintain their hateful ideology. To let the world put put pressure on Israel. 

 

 

Isreal has claimed to have killed 14,000  Hamas fighters.

 

This article also gives a rundown on the leaders of Hamas who have been killed.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1wex26nl61o

 

I call this Hamas being held accountable for their actions both, before, on, and after October 7. 

 

Not fully accountable, Israel is still in the process thereof. 

 

But they are still being held accountable. 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21 by Ilunga

[Canuck Surfer]

13 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

So first you have accused an Isreali historian, Adam Raz, of hating Jews more than Hamas'.

Where is you evidence for this ?

The old, you critise Israel and you are an anti semite. 

 

Does Tal Schneider hate Jews for writing 

 

" For years Netanyahu propped up Hamas.

Now it's blown up in our faces " 

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/

 

 

Not only did Netanyahu benefit from a militant Hamas in regards to his aim of denying the Palestinian an independent state of their own.

He has made several statements in regards to this.

Before October 7 Netanyahu was a spent political force. 

Now the war in Gaza has helped him immensely politically.  

 

You know that many in Isreal blame Netanyahu for the October 7 attack for various reasons, not just his support for Hamas'.

 

 

You have accused me of inciting hatred.

That's a very serious, and slanderous accusation to make against someone.

 

 

I have pointed out to you what inciting hatred actually is.

You have basically agreed that the article was not even inciting hatred. 

 

 

 

 

No, the article remains inflammatory. Highly so. So is throwing around Hasbara comments. I am hoping, believing you are posting it just blind to its bias, damage? A comment Bibi benefits because of Oct 7 is a bad way to communicate your message. I am trying to draw to your attention to it.  

 

Sure some / many Israeli's are pissed off at Netanyahu. History tells he made many mistakes.  Netanyahu believes he has to provide security for Israel. He was a soldier. His means of doing so. If you are engaging a 1980's lens, distrusting the PLO? A 90's / 2000 lens sowing chaos so no party gets too strong in Gaza?  Absolutely you are correct, contributed massively to the problem. I do suggest Netanyahu believes he has to be in power to solve the problem; his means extinguishing any militant threat.

 

Tell Israeli's to campaign for a home for Palestinians. Not mock who is to blame for Oct 7. It may take years?  Campaign that someone with a peace agenda win an election.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Isreal has claimed to have killed 14,000  Hamas fighters.

 

This article also gives a rundown on the leaders of Hamas who have been killed.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c1wex26nl61o

 

I call this Hamas being held accountable for their actions both, before, on, and after October 7. 

 

Not fully accountable, Israel is still in the process thereof. 

 

But they are still being held accountable. 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah; so you agree with Bibi?  

[Canuck Surfer]

Question withdrawn; I know you do not!

[Ilunga]

1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

No, the article remains inflammatory. Highly so. So is throwing around Hasbara comments. I am hoping, believing you are posting it just blind to its bias, damage? A comment Bibi benefits because of Oct 7 is a bad way to communicate your message. I am trying to draw to your attention to it.  

 

Sure some / many Israeli's are pissed off at Netanyahu. History tells he made many mistakes.  Netanyahu believes he has to provide security for Israel. He was a soldier. His means of doing so. If you are engaging a 1980's lens, distrusting the PLO? A 90's / 2000 lens sowing chaos so no party gets too strong in Gaza?  Absolutely you are correct, contributed massively to the problem. I do suggest Netanyahu believes he has to be in power to solve the problem; his means extinguishing any militant threat.

 

Tell Israeli's to campaign for a home for Palestinians. Not mock who is to blame for Oct 7. It may take years?  Campaign that someone with a peace agenda win an election.

 

 

 

CS, everyone knows Netanyahu is a despot to use another posters words.

He is a wannabe dictator, who was prepared to dismantle Israel's highest court. 

He will/would do anything to hold onto power. 

 

You tell me a word I can use for people who are part of an organised campaign to spread disinformation. 

 

taxi fits that profile to a tee. 

He doesn't engage on this forum in any other form, except for this thread.

And even here he basically only engaged with me.  

 

I don't think you realise how hurtful your inciting hatred comment was. 

 

You have admitted it wasn't inciting hatred and yet you cannot express a bit of remorse for accusing me of doing such a repugnant thing ?

[Ilunga]

7 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Ah; so you agree with Bibi?  

 

I stated that Israel claims that they have killed 14,000 Hamas fighters.

I am reasonably certain it is not Netanyahu who is determining those figures, and they cannot be verified.

 

Israel has certainly killed a lot of Hamas fighters.

[Canuck Surfer]

9 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

You tell me a word I can use for people who are part of an organised campaign to spread disinformation. 

 

OCD?

 

Spoiler

I have this problem, BTW, or I would not be arguing with you...

 

[Optimist Prime]

Bibi will be dead soon enough of old age, and very few people on earth will shed a tear. If he magically did not exist Hamas would have murdered 1200 on Oct 7th and the Israeli Defense Force would still need to be in Gaza extinguishing Hamas. The side argument about Bibi seems to me to be absolutely besides the point.

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Optimist Prime said:

Bibi will be dead soon enough of old age, and very few people on earth will shed a tear. If he magically did not exist Hamas would have murdered 1200 on Oct 7th and the Israeli Defense Force would still need to be in Gaza extinguishing Hamas. The side argument about Bibi seems to me to be absolutely besides the point.

 

What do you call a person that supports someone/thing/organisation as a means to their own end ?

 

I have posted information from half a dozen Isreali , western, credible sources that state the Netanyahu, and other segments of the Isreali leadership/security establishment supported Hamas' when it suited their own ends. 

 

When Hamas' have committed these crimes against humanity/attrocities, the subject of who supported them is very relevant. 

 

 

[RomanPer]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yes I do know what the meaning of the word Hasbara, to explain. 

 

It is also the slang term for Isreali sponsored " trolling " disinformation on the internet.

They even have an app Act IL.

 

 

So, what is wrong with trying to explain Israeli position to the world? Is this only a prerogative of Hamas? Again, using that word the way you did puts your fair and square in a position of entirely anti-Israel. While you are trying very hard to tell us that you are in the middle, blah, blah, blah, using this word clearly shows everyone where your real priorities lie. Keep on trying to convince me otherwise, but you slipped. I saw through yours bs months ago, you just proved what I already knew to everyone else around here. My hasbara histayma, habibi.

Edited August 22 by RomanPer

[Ilunga]

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

So, what is wrong with trying to explain Israeli position to the world? Is this only a prerogative of Hamas? Again, using that word the way you did puts your fair and square in a position of entirely anti-Israel. While you are trying very hard to tell us that you are in the middle, blah, blah, blah, using this word clearly shows everyone where your real priorities lie. Keep on trying to convince me otherwise, but you slipped. I saw through yours bs months ago, you just proved what I already knew to everyone else around here. My hasbara histayma, habibi.

 

There is nothing wrong with trying to explain Israel's position to the world. 

 

So long as you stick to the truth.

 

Long before you showed up on the board, I promoted the same ideals, that humans should live in peace and harmony.

That we should all treat each other with respect and dignity. 

 

When I did have a " sig " back in the old days, it was final stanza of a Robert Burns poem.

 

For a' that, and a' that 

It's coming yet for a' that 

That man to man the world ov'er 

Shall brothers be for a' that 

 

Thanks for the Habibi comment.

 

I love you to roman, in a totally we are all in this together way.

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

So, what is wrong with trying to explain Israeli position to the world? Is this only a prerogative of Hamas? Again, using that word the way you did puts your fair and square in a position of entirely anti-Israel. While you are trying very hard to tell us that you are in the middle, blah, blah, blah, using this word clearly shows everyone where your real priorities lie. Keep on trying to convince me otherwise, but you slipped. I saw through yours bs months ago, you just proved what I already knew to everyone else around here. My hasbara histayma, habibi.

 

Actually the pressure is too much 

 

You have seen through me roman, here is footage of me, after I transmogrified, joining a terror group in the middle east

 

 

 

 

As you can see I went to great lengths, I even learnt Farsi, 

 

Derka Derka Derka Derka 

Mohammad Jihad !

[SilentSam]

Just came across this footage .. 21 minitues of 0ct 7 th.  Unfiltered/ Graphic 

 

 

Warning Graphic :

 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

9 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You have admitted it wasn't inciting hatred and yet you cannot express a bit of remorse for accusing me of doing such a repugnant thing ?

 

I backtracked from incitement. At least on your part. Take that as an apology.  It remains IMO incredibly naive to post that quote; a deliberate attempt to paint Netanyahu as trying to intentionally use Oct 7 for personal power gain. Then post how its a neutral quote.  Its unfortunate you see it as neutral because its far from it. Or that this was a time to paint that picture is all I can add. 

 

A time when Bibi just agreed to a proposed version of a cessation of fire deal. Lets paint that he was at fault for Oct 7 in the first place? Get everyone riled up with hate & blame. You should never have posted that statement is my opinion.  Its counter productive to any peace process. 

[Canuck Surfer]

All 6 were alive when taken hostage. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Back in Chicago; Bring them home!

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Wow; so brave by residents of Gaza...

 

 

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I backtracked from incitement. At least on your part. Take that as an apology.  It remains IMO incredibly naive to post that quote; a deliberate attempt to paint Netanyahu as trying to intentionally use Oct 7 for personal power gain. Then post how its a neutral quote.  Its unfortunate you see it as neutral because its far from it. Or that this was a time to paint that picture is all I can add. 

 

A time when Bibi just agreed to a proposed version of a cessation of fire deal. Lets paint that he was at fault for Oct 7 in the first place? Get everyone riled up with hate & blame. You should never have posted that statement is my opinion.  Its counter productive to any peace process. 

 

I wanted to provide Isreali sources in regards to Israel/Netanyahu supporting Hamas'.

Not just western sources, and certainly not any from the middle east. 

 

Why do so many Isreali and western sources report that Netanyahu and other members of the Isreali leadership/security establishment have bolstered Hamas, when it suited their own ends ?

 

Get everyone riled up with hate ?

As much as I have my disagreements with Roman and taxi, I certainly don't believe they, or anyone else on this forum, for that matter, are hateful people. 

 

Again if one credible source tells you something, you go maybe, but when a lot of credible sources tell you the same thing ? 

 

Do you seriously believe there will be a peace deal ?

Hamas' leadership doesn't want a peace deal it now seems, they won't make the requisite concessions. 

 

The Isrealis won't make real concessions. 

And even if there is a ceasefire, do you believe that this will be an end to this never ending conflict ? 

The amount of hatred and anger the Isrealis feel in relation to the attrocities committed during the October attack.

The amount of anger  the Palestinians feel for what has happened to them for the last 10 and half months. 

The attacks on Palestinians in the west bank and more settlements being approved. 

Hamas has not only caused untold harm to Palestinians in Gaza, but allowed the Isreali religious extremists a free hand in the West Bank. 

 

No, there will be no peace for the Palestinians for the foreseeable future. 

And Hezbollah will probably keep trying to inflict pain on the Isrealis.

 

 

Frankly after last night's exchange, I am upset.

It's one thing to disagree, to accuse someone you know reasonably well of inciting hatred....when you know that's not the sort of person they are.... 

 

Anyway I certainly don't hold any sort of anger or negative feelings, I just feel sad.

 

 

[Boudrias]

5 hours ago, SilentSam said:

Just came across this footage .. 21 minitues of 0ct 7 th.  Unfiltered/ Graphic 

 

 

Warning Graphic :

 

 

 

 

After watching that I am amazed that the IDF has shown any mercy in Gaza. Hamas are worse than animals. Supporters in North America should be rounded up and shipped to Gaza, the West Bank or Lebanon. I don't care if they are citizens or not. I don't care if they are Arab or not.