Boudrias Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Wow; so brave by residents of Gaza... How sincere was this demonstration? Is it another staged event to facilitate a political objective? Until ordinary Palestinians pick up weapons and start shooting Hamas there will be no clear indication that their support has ended. Bottom line was that the masses lined the streets in Gaza when Israelis were brought there on 10/07. They cheered and participated in even more murders of Israeli captives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Just wanted to bring this in here to not derail the US thread @bishopshodan Can you clarify what this meant? "I've read enough of the Hamas thread, I know your opinions. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Who is leading protests in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 4 hours ago, Bob Long said: Just wanted to bring this in here to not derail the US thread @bishopshodan Can you clarify what this meant? "I've read enough of the Hamas thread, I know your opinions. " Just that i could have somewhat predicted your responses to my post. Didn't mean it to sound dismissive, just that the way you viewed the topic was exactly how I thought you would. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 8 hours ago, Boudrias said: How sincere was this demonstration? Is it another staged event to facilitate a political objective? Until ordinary Palestinians pick up weapons and start shooting Hamas there will be no clear indication that their support has ended. Bottom line was that the masses lined the streets in Gaza when Israelis were brought there on 10/07. They cheered and participated in even more murders of Israeli captives. Hard to tell. The narrator's voice is middle African, I think Kenyan? I picked this source only because it sounded not an obvious one for either spectrum; say CNN or Al Jazeera? * I would feel safe in assuming almost as many Gazans would be frustrated with Hamas as Israel by now. * Both because they are no longer in obvious control of streets enforcing absolute loyalty. * As people seeing the cause is not protecting or considering them. * Some probably see that they are being abused? Desperation also has to be setting in. People would want help & a solution regardless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 hours ago, Ilunga said: Hamas' leadership doesn't want a peace deal it now seems, they won't make the requisite concessions. Look, the odds of a peace deal went seriously down when Haniyeh was taken out. * Not that he was the ''moderate'' portrayed by some. * He absolutely did not stand for peace. * Did however possess tactical and strategic thinking. * I believe he would have backtracked understanding ''this'' was not a moment Hamas could win. * So would have negotiated towards something where they, and Palestinians, could at least survive. * Sinwar is no holds barred 'in what he wants,' it does not matter how many die, Gazans are martyred!' To my knowledge Hamas has never budged from its formal position of utter & complete control. Qatar and Egypt seek something for the people, are less attached to Hamas or PA. Hamas formed and forged power by intentionally derailing peace back before and after Oslo. You will recall a debate we had that Palestinians had offered peace. I argued both that the PLO was not trustworthy. More importantly; they had no mandate. That only input on that deal Hamas put forward; they would kill anyone involved. The timing is unique compared to 30 and 50 years ago. Egypt was an adversary, not even Jordan on normalized terms with their King on a string for concessions from England and the US. SA remains out of the closet as to who they really are; but as long as they make money no longer care if Israel exists. Peace has a higher chance of success without the region all being at Israel's throat. At the moment there are not ideal regimes here in the nations mentioned, but relatively stable at least. Probably won't be full chances of peace until stable govt is also in Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, plusother oppressed peoples like the Kurds have a home. Revolution remains in mid or long range views in Iran, Northern & Eastern Africa; within earshot in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon & of course Yemen & Sudan are actually on fire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 hours ago, bishopshodan said: Just that i could have somewhat predicted your responses to my post. Didn't mean it to sound dismissive, just that the way you viewed the topic was exactly how I thought you would. well, I guess if nothing else I'm predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 11 hours ago, Ilunga said: Frankly after last night's exchange, I am upset. It's one thing to disagree, to accuse someone you know reasonably well of inciting hatred....when you know that's not the sort of person they are.... I fully believe your outlook is peace first, second & third. Just that your sense of timing and message might need some tweaking. Well, a lot... Maybe you just don't believe you understand that your approach to communicating issues draws out anger? We had a similar discussion about corruption in Ukraine. After back to back administrations had been actively working on these issues. Which did start with members seated beside criminals in their midst. We started posting headlines about progress on corruption. You countered immediately that it was virtually the worst place on the planet. As if there was no hope? There is nothing wrong in campaigning for political change, trying to build those in Israel who might have a more moderate view. Would not tolerate current abuses. At a moment Netanyahu is at least offering a ceasefire; you post he built and benefits from Oct 7th & ergo buildup of Hamas. Its absolutely damaging in that moment. Its worth mentioning, post Oct 7th Israel's opposition stood in full solidarity with the govt.. Agreed on putting Israeli security before politics at that moment. Timing is everything. A fascinating trip? Would be to visit Israel next election. Stand in Tel Aviv, have on boardies & an Aussie shirt with a sign; ''The world wants a safe home for Palestinians and Israeli's!'' ''Vote for Peace!'' Spoiler I absolutely believe you would be welcomed! ^^ It would have more influence than a sign burning Netanyahu's intention. Although many ''riled'' up Israeli's would join you. It depends if you want revolution or influencing minds as your methodology. * Most would accept debate regarding Bibi's integrity, and many would both argue and stand beside you. * But that is a different moment. I am not sure you would be safe doing so by the West Wall in Jerusalem? I also believe you would be either arrested, or moved on in various neighboring nations. Westerners are welcomed in far more countries with diverse backgrounds than believed. In Egypt I met with Aussies just back from Syria, which technically required border approval; but they just crossed by slipping fifty bucks. Felt safe, and partied. Others from Bahrain, Afghanistan, Somalia & Kuwait. I spoke in cafe's with people who hated Israel; but accepted I hated Hamas even for Palestinian people. I had those discussions at resorts in SA & the Dead Sea, it was actually less accepted here than in the streets. I did have it everywhere I went; I travel to field people's views. As long as I listened there was acceptance! Not sure I could wave a sign? Many of the issues are bigger than us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 19 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: I fully believe your outlook is peace first, second & third. Just that your sense of timing and message might need some tweaking. Well, a lot... Maybe you just don't believe you understand that your approach to communicating issues draws out anger? We had a similar discussion about corruption in Ukraine. After back to back administrations had been actively working on these issues. Which did start with members seated beside criminals in their midst. We started posting headlines about progress on corruption. You countered immediately that it was virtually the worst place on the planet. As if there was no hope? There is nothing wrong in campaigning for political change, trying to build those in Israel who might have a more moderate view. Would not tolerate current abuses. At a moment Netanyahu is at least offering a ceasefire; you post he built and benefits from Oct 7th & ergo buildup of Hamas. Its absolutely damaging in that moment. Its worth mentioning, post Oct 7th Israel's opposition stood in full solidarity with the govt.. Agreed on putting Israeli security before politics at that moment. Timing is everything. A fascinating trip? Would be to visit Israel next election. Stand in Tel Aviv, have on boardies & an Aussie shirt with a sign; ''The world wants a safe home for Palestinians and Israeli's!'' ''Vote for Peace!'' Reveal hidden contents I absolutely believe you would be welcomed! ^^ It would have more influence than a sign burning Netanyahu's intention. Although many ''riled'' up Israeli's would join you. It depends if you want revolution or influencing minds as your methodology. * Most would accept debate regarding Bibi's integrity, and many would both argue and stand beside you. * But that is a different moment. I am not sure you would be safe doing so by the West Wall in Jerusalem? I also believe you would be either arrested, or moved on in various neighboring nations. Westerners are welcomed in far more countries with diverse backgrounds than believed. In Egypt I met with Aussies just back from Syria, which technically required border approval; but they just crossed by slipping fifty bucks. Felt safe, and partied. Others from Bahrain, Afghanistan, Somalia & Kuwait. I spoke in cafe's with people who hated Israel; but accepted I hated Hamas even for Palestinian people. I had those discussions at resorts in SA & the Dead Sea, it was actually less accepted here than in the streets. I did have it everywhere I went; I travel to field people's views. As long as I listened there was acceptance! Not sure I could wave a sign? Many of the issues are bigger than us. This is my reply to both your posts. There is no " worst place " on earth as you put it. As I keep on stating the majority of people wherever they happen to live just want a safe environment to live/ raise their kids, food on the table, access to education and healthcare. The most fundamental of human rights. The things we are very lucky to have here in Australia. In saying that, the original inhabitants of this country, the people whose culture is the oldest continuous culture on this planet, do not have the same access to these things as Australians who have come to this country in the last few hundred years. There is injustice in every society on this planet. I believe that you, like everyone including myself has biases, and you interpret my/ peoples posts/words the way you want to, not always the way they are meant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bishopshodan Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 45 minutes ago, Bob Long said: well, I guess if nothing else I'm predictable. Not with everything, You are a fantastic contributor and someone I look forward to chatting with....however, if the NDP gets brought up, I can predict the flavour of those opinions too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Warning; Israeli sourced report. I suspect it has some facts in it though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 10 hours ago, Boudrias said: How sincere was this demonstration? Is it another staged event to facilitate a political objective? Until ordinary Palestinians pick up weapons and start shooting Hamas there will be no clear indication that their support has ended. Bottom line was that the masses lined the streets in Gaza when Israelis were brought there on 10/07. They cheered and participated in even more murders of Israeli captives. And where are Palestinians in Gaza meant to get these guns from ? As I have already posted, the residents in Gaza have one of the lowest rates of gun ownership in the world. Part of this is because of Isreals blockade of the Gaza strip. Nearly all of the guns in Gaza are owned/controlled by Hamas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: Not with everything, You are a fantastic contributor and someone I look forward to chatting with....however, if the NDP gets brought up, I can predict the flavour of those opinions too Guilty. Fwiw, I hate seeing what is happening to women and kids in Gaza, I just think maybe we differ a bit on how to handle it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Who is leading protests in the US? I can tell you who resigned due to their handling of the student protests at the Columbia University, Minouche Shafik https://www.reuters.com/world/us/columbia-university-president-quits-months-after-handling-gaza-war-protests-2024-08-15/ And then there was what happened with Jason Gillham, the pianist whose performance was cancelled by the MSO for comments he made about the record amount of journalists that have been killed in Gaza since this war began. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-08-17/musicians-vote-no-condience-mso-gillham/104237004 The MSO has since apologised for doing this because musicians voiced their displeasure about what had happened. I was listening to a discussion with him, and other artists on late night live two days ago. About the long history of artist/student protest in regards to many issues. I remember reading Russ Rankins, lead the singer of Good Riddance, thoughts on how so many young people start of idealistic, then as they get older, have a family, mortgage are burdened by the everyday events of life, their ideals are " beaten " out of them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Soon to be President Harris said that perfectly tonight. Swoon. I am with HER. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 6 hours ago, Optimist Prime said: Soon to be President Harris said that perfectly tonight. Swoon. I am with HER. Myself as well! (its the full speach) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Tone deaf... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 7 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Myself as well! (its the full speach) The Relevant bit on Israel/Hamas begins at 33 minutes and sums up around 36:15, so it will only take you 3 minutes to hear her take on Israel/Gaza and some global bits about tyranny at the end too. She could not have echoed my position any better if I wrote this for her. (I did not, but whoever did earned their paycheck) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 1month old New Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 23 Share Posted August 23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 24 Share Posted August 24 I went snorkeling & diving in the Red Sea just last month. Beautiful! I did not see any commercial boat traffic going past. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimist Prime Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 this is kind of cool, can't verify its voracity but its seems on point, the textiles of the middle east are things of legend, and I have some examples I brought home to prove it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted August 25 Share Posted August 25 Pre-emptive strike by Israel in advance of 200 plus Hezbollah missiles today. Which were launched? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.