Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

So, how's things going in the west bank?

 

I was told nothing would happen there and there was no designs on anything.  Just curious...

 

Told by who.

 

These are not my own favorite tactics, but mathematically an inevitability...  

 

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

how do they get the intel on where to find people this accurately? just eyes everywhere or? 

 

 

Israel seems pretty well connected, don't they!

 

There was a 69 year old shot in his window by a sniper. Some of these are unfortunate collateral damage. More telling, an 82 year old man shot 8 times.

 

I don't believe all the dead were shot by Israel, if you catch the suggestion?  In a related suggestion; when one of the famous battles at the Al Aqsa hospital took place.  A Palestinian reporter tabled a story about a mass grave of 70 or 80.  Hands tied behind their back, tortured, shot in the head sorta stuff. Alluded of mass murder by Israel.  Problem was? They were dead well before the hospital was surrounded & attacked. The story seemed to disappear quickly.

 

Not everyone wants terrorists in the building next door, or to launch missiles from the top of their apartment.  

  

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

So, how's things going in the west bank?

 

I was told nothing would happen there and there was no designs on anything.  Just curious...

 

As Israeli tanks and troops stormed into Palestinian communities in the occupied West Bank this week — one of the largest such military operations in years — a comment by the country's foreign minister reverberated loudly across the region.

Israel should resort to the "temporary evacuation" of Palestinian residents from the West Bank, if need be, to facilitate the fight against terrorism, Israel Katz wrote on social media, as Israeli bulldozers dug up roads, destroyed buildings and left a trail of destruction behind them.

 

How are things going in the West Bank ?

 

According to the head of the Shin Bet, Ronan Bar, Jewish terrorism is going on in the West Bank.

 

 

" Shin Bet Chief to Netanyahu: Jewish terror in west bank on brink of disaster "

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-815963

 

And the IDF agrees with him.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-29/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-joins-shin-bet-warning-over-jewish-terrorism-in-west-bank/00000191-9e2f-d453-ab9f-feafbdcf0000

 

" Israeli Army Joins Shin Bet Warning Over Jewish Terrorism in The West Bank "  

 

And remember what you stated last year about what would happen in regards to land grabs in the West Bank ?

 

 

" Israel's settlers are winning unprecedented power from the war in Gaza 

 

They are gaining land - and sway over the army police and politics "

 

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/08/27/israels-settlers-are-winning-unprecedented-power-from-the-war-in-gaza 

 

 

" Driving along highway 60 which traverses the West Bank north to south, and it feels like a real estate road trip. It is festooned with signs in Hebrew offering "Two last apartments in Mitzpe Levona" and promising that "your grass can be greener" seen from a Villa in Tzofim. These are boom times for Israeli settlers who are gaining land, military influence and political power. "

 

[Optimist Prime]

So Israel shouldn't have gone in to get the Hamas operatives in Jenin? Wait for them to attack a peace festival in Muqeibila and kill 1200 first? 

I don't quite understand the issue being raised here: the authorities got wind of a terror operation and moved to thwart it before it happened...so, outrage?> I guess.?

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

 

Interpret as you will?  I would not trust this view as reported...

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

Interpret as you will?  I would not trust this view as reported...

I would believe the IDF before any Palestinian staged BS. 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I would believe the IDF before any Palestinian staged BS. 

 

To me I don't believe it is not possible to just believe the IDF, or Palestinian. Each takes what may start as truth and stretches.... it to complete a message. 

 

Blind Faith;  in the wee hours of delirium you cannot find your way home. No truth is completely safe. No matter how hard you chase it.

 

That video I posted had horrible truth's about both sides. Its why I posted it. Also why some rebel, which needs to be managed much better. Rebelling cannot be in the wrong way. I actually quite like the article posted above about an IDF concern over settler behavior. Albeit not in isolation.

 

19 hours ago, Ilunga said:

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-29/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-joins-shin-bet-warning-over-jewish-terrorism-in-west-bank/00000191-9e2f-d453-ab9f-feafbdcf0000

 

" Israeli Army Joins Shin Bet Warning Over Jewish Terrorism in The West Bank "  

   

While I believe that Hamas's core ideology is the largest source of their own suffering? I absolutely do! The biggest cause of conflict. A belief all who hold different religion or belief should subjugate themselves to those who command Islamic Revolution.... This is not Martin Luther King asking for justice by peaceful protest. It's a corrupt founding ideal. These are killers asking for more than their own place in society. This has to change!

 

A first world nation, Israel, still needs to admit & manage its faults. The message of Dave's article in this case. Settlers / Settlements as a whole should be repealed. My message. Bringing to justice the even worse crime of Settlers running violently amok could be used as a leverage tool? Israel specifically needs to show it will imprison for life a Settler, for example, who will firebomb a Palestinian homestead. Not offer an armed guard! If Judea & Samaria are a 'security zone?'  The IDF should protect, peace abiding, Palestinians.  Palestinians, need a group who will commit to fight. But fight and police their own Abu Shujaa's not Israelis. Hamas would kill their own Martin Luther King, should he appear, as a collaborator. Regardless, the analogy is its hard to ask to ask community respect for police if George Floyds killer is not in jail! 

 

The counter argument also needs to be torn down. If Abu Shuja is going to fire bomb Israeli tourists in Jerusalem? He absolutely has done exactly stuff like that. So the mission to take him out was justified IMO. The extremists in Israel, and lets face it Israel has overwhelming military power? Use it to justify settlements. If they are going to fire bomb us, we may as well simply take over rather than simply have a security zone! Totally unacceptable.

 

Palestinians need someone to be an actual father of the brave? Make a statement, to themselves as well, 'we understand both we have done harm, perhaps have had leaders with the wrong goals!'  For practical purposes if nothing else. We don't want war! We agree to put down our arms, accept a full de-arming for peace. We do want control of West Bank & Gaza, East Jerusalem, commerce with Israel & the world; yet a home, or place to visit for a person of any religion or culture if they come in peace. 

 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

To me I don't believe it is not possible to just believe the IDF, or Palestinian. Each takes what may start as truth and stretches.... it to complete a message. 

 

Blind Faith;  in the wee hours of delirium you cannot find your way home. No truth is completely safe. No matter how hard you chase it.

 

That video I posted had horrible truth's about both sides. Its why I posted it. Also why some rebel, which needs to be managed much better. Rebelling cannot be in the wrong way. I actually quite like the article posted above about an IDF concern over settler behavior. Albeit not in isolation.

 

   

While I believe that Hamas's core ideology is the largest source of their own suffering? I absolutely do! The biggest cause of conflict. A belief all who hold different religion or belief should subjugate themselves to those who command Islamic Revolution.... This is not Martin Luther King asking for justice by peaceful protest. It's a corrupt founding ideal. These are killers asking for more than their own place in society. This has to change!

 

A first world nation, Israel, still needs to admit & manage its faults. The message of Dave's article in this case. Settlers / Settlements as a whole should be repealed. My message. Bringing to justice the even worse crime of Settlers running violently amok could be used as a leverage tool? Israel specifically needs to show it will imprison for life a Settler, for example, who will firebomb a Palestinian homestead. Not offer an armed guard! If Judea & Samaria are a 'security zone?'  The IDF should protect, peace abiding, Palestinians.  Palestinians, need a group who will commit to fight. But fight and police their own Abu Shujaa's not Israelis. Hamas would kill their own Martin Luther King, should he appear, as a collaborator. Regardless, the analogy is its hard to ask to ask community respect for police if George Floyds killer is not in jail! 

 

The counter argument also needs to be torn down. If Abu Shuja is going to fire bomb Israeli tourists in Jerusalem? He absolutely has done exactly stuff like that. So the mission to take him out was justified IMO. The extremists in Israel, and lets face it Israel has overwhelming military power? Use it to justify settlements. If they are going to fire bomb us, we may as well simply take over rather than simply have a security zone! Totally unacceptable.

 

Palestinians need someone to be an actual father of the brave? Make a statement, to themselves as well, 'we understand both we have done harm, perhaps have had leaders with the wrong goals!'  For practical purposes if nothing else. We don't want war! We agree to put down our arms, accept a full de-arming for peace. We do want control of West Bank & Gaza, East Jerusalem, commerce with Israel & the world; yet a home, or place to visit for a person of any religion or culture if they come in peace. 

 

 

Did you read what Ronan Bar, the current head of Israel's security service, Shin Bet stated in that article ?

 

" He wrote that letter out of deep concern as a Jew, as an Isreali, and a security official. " 

 

" According to Bar this process is harming the fabric of Isreali society domestically and endangering support for the Jewish state globally, even among its allies. " 

 

He is stating the obvious. 

 

We all condemn Hamas', and rightly so, for acts of terror, and using Palestinians as human shields. 

Yet when the Isrealis do the same things, the silence is deafening from those in this thread that only support Israel.  

 

 

 

 

SBS are having a true story collection playing ATM on the world movie channel- 32.

If you can access SBS on demand, check out the movie,

The Survivor.

It is about Harry Haft, an Auschwitz survivor. 

 

This is not an easy movie to watch, however I highly recommend it.

[Warhippy]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:46 PM, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Told by who.

 

Go ahead scroll back and see where I was lambasted for saying this would happen.  It's coupled alongside a bunch of accusations of anti semitism.

 

I'll say again, the entire time this "event" has been occurring, settlers have been still violently stealing land and frcibly evicting people in the west bank.  That at some point the viable land in the west bank would be a target because "reasons of security" or some such nonsense and look.  It's happening.

 

But when myself and a few others who are no longer on this forum; mostly due to this and one other thread mentioned it.  We were called anti semitic and worse and told we were fear mongering or worse.

 

So, now it is evidently happening.  

 

So, how are things going in the west bank mate?  Heard nothing would be happening there but 

[Warhippy]

On 8/30/2024 at 4:56 PM, Ilunga said:

 

How are things going in the West Bank ?

 

According to the head of the Shin Bet, Ronan Bar, Jewish terrorism is going on in the West Bank.

 

 

" Shin Bet Chief to Netanyahu: Jewish terror in west bank on brink of disaster "

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-815963

 

And the IDF agrees with him.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-29/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-joins-shin-bet-warning-over-jewish-terrorism-in-west-bank/00000191-9e2f-d453-ab9f-feafbdcf0000

 

" Israeli Army Joins Shin Bet Warning Over Jewish Terrorism in The West Bank "  

 

And remember what you stated last year about what would happen in regards to land grabs in the West Bank ?

 

 

" Israel's settlers are winning unprecedented power from the war in Gaza 

 

They are gaining land - and sway over the army police and politics "

 

https://www.economist.com/middle-east-and-africa/2024/08/27/israels-settlers-are-winning-unprecedented-power-from-the-war-in-gaza 

 

 

" Driving along highway 60 which traverses the West Bank north to south, and it feels like a real estate road trip. It is festooned with signs in Hebrew offering "Two last apartments in Mitzpe Levona" and promising that "your grass can be greener" seen from a Villa in Tzofim. These are boom times for Israeli settlers who are gaining land, military influence and political power. "

 

Nah mate, just have to read the room.

 

it was just a "special military operation" and all of the settlements that are ongoing and the forcible removal of people is just part of the "special military operation" so it's all good.  More settlements ongoing.  More forcible evictions for "security"

 

All good.  Nothing to see here.

 

 

Edited September 1 by Warhippy

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

Did you read what Ronan Bar, the current head of Israel's security service, Shin Bet stated in that article ?

 

" He wrote that letter out of deep concern as a Jew, as an Isreali, and a security official. " 

 

" According to Bar this process is harming the fabric of Isreali society domestically and endangering support for the Jewish state globally, even among its allies. " 

 

He is stating the obvious. 

 

We all condemn Hamas', and rightly so, for acts of terror, and using Palestinians as human shields. 

Yet when the Isrealis do the same things, the silence is deafening from those in this thread that only support Israel.  

 

 

 

 

SBS are having a true story collection playing ATM on the world movie channel- 32.

If you can access SBS on demand, check out the movie,

The Survivor.

It is about Harry Haft, an Auschwitz survivor. 

 

This is not an easy movie to watch, however I highly recommend it.

Paywall & or account setup required.  Suggest cut and paste articles to be viewed in a spoiler, with a visible headline.

 

There are plenty of Jewish people not happy with Settlers. Also plenty around the world. Them having that opinion, of which I share a major proportion of the same concern, won't resolve the issues that Palestinians bring to the table. 

 

Even though they are 'physically' losing a war. Their leadership, for 50 years PLO & 30 Hamas, clings to asking Israel to leave. Not Gaza. Israel.  Citing world pressure, on humanitarian grounds to stop attacking or have ceasefire now. In Arabic, Muslim circles on religious or cultural bonding by association to leave full stop. Hamas came in to this war, happy to Martyr 100,000 Gazans. 200,000 victims?  300,000 victims...  Israel wears the publicity battle broadside. 

 

The real issue, the more restrictive Israel has gotten? The more actual Palestinians believe they should battle as well. 20 years ago, when people went back & forth, had better paying jobs in Israel? Jewish customers in their Bethlehem or Han Yunis shop? Less were as militant about the suffering.  Israel needs to stop its Settler abuse.  Which has pushed more to extremes.  The thing is?

 

Arafat in the early days, Sinwar now had & have no interest in Israel leaving Gaza or even the West Bank.  Even all of Jerusalem.

[Ilunga]

 

 

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

27 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

Paywall & or account setup required.  Suggest cut and paste articles to be viewed in a spoiler, with a visible headline.

 

There are plenty of Jewish people not happy with Settlers. Also plenty around the world. Them having that opinion, of which I share a major proportion of the same concern, won't resolve the issues that Palestinians bring to the table. 

 

Even though they are 'physically' losing a war. Their leadership, for 50 years PLO & 30 Hamas, clings to asking Israel to leave. Not Gaza. Israel.  Citing world pressure, on humanitarian grounds to stop attacking or have ceasefire now. In Arabic, Muslim circles on religious or cultural bonding by association to leave full stop. Hamas came in to this war, happy to Martyr 100,000 Gazans. 200,000 victims?  300,000 victims...  Israel wears the publicity battle broadside. 

 

The real issue, the more restrictive Israel has gotten? The more actual Palestinians believe they should battle as well. 20 years ago, when people went back & forth, had better paying jobs in Israel? Jewish customers in their Bethlehem or Han Yunis shop? Less were as militant about the suffering.  Israel needs to stop its Settler abuse.  Which has pushed more to extremes.  The thing is?

 

Arafat in the early days, Sinwar now had & have no interest in Israel leaving Gaza or even the West Bank.  Even all of Jerusalem.

 

Brother you know I can't do that shit on my phone, that's why I post so much info. 

 

The Jerusalem post comes up in my google feed, no pay wall for me, and I have not subscribed. 

 

From that article 

 

https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-815963

 

 

 

" Next he said it was inadequate to call the current Jewish violence " nationalistic crimes " but that it must be called Jewish terror, especially because the goal is to enforce broad oppression over another minority group, and the attackers are not a minority taking small shots at the majority. "

 

This is the current serving head of Israel's security service stating what is obvious to us all. 

 

Add those comments of his I have already posted, about how he feels about this as a Jew, an Israeli and a security official.

And how this pertains to Isreals society and support for Israel internationally.

 

I have posted information from Isreali sources, that Isreal is using Palestinians as human shields in Gaza.

 

That they are committing acts of terror in the West Bank.

 

And the silence is deafening.

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, Warhippy said:

So, how are things going in the west bank mate?  Heard nothing would be happening there but 

 

This outlook is naive.

 

A serious element of truth. Israel has its huge warts. They should, will a different (political) question, stop their settlement program. Regardless? Won't resolve anything. So naive.

 

The losers of this war, that they started; should not be dictating terms.  Its not how peace, has ever (?), been accomplished.

Edited September 1 by Canuck Surfer

[Ilunga]

19 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This outlook is naive.

 

A serious element of truth. Israel has its huge warts. They should, will a different (political) question, stop their settlement program. Regardless? Won't resolve anything. So naive.

 

The losers of this war, that they started; should not be dictating terms.  Its not how peace, has ever (?), been accomplished.

 

" We know from painful experience that freedom is never given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed " 

 

Martin Luther King 

[Canuck Surfer]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

" We know from painful experience that freedom is never given by the oppressor, it is demanded by the oppressed " 

 

Martin Luther King 

 

Bad analogy.  I alluded to MLK in a diff context just 6 or 10 hours ago.  

 

1) MLK was not a militant who demanded in 196? that all white people leave America. 

2) Nor was he shooting rockets from suburbs of Atlanta, arming descendents of sharecroppers in Mississippi.  

 

Oppressed, yes, but in many contexts Hamas / PLO own doing. In 1948, 2006, after 1967 partition plans were offered.  More generous than Settler abused versions currently I admit. Which were rejected & wars / militant resistance movements launched to take all territories occupied by Israel. An excuse used by Israel to suppress and steal more territory which I call on Israel to secede. BTW they have left both Gaza & Sinai after occupying. 

 

Anyone who believes Israel will leave full stop, perhaps go back to Auschwitz after being attacked Oct 7, Hamas's current position?  Are shortsighted.

 

Come back with a partition plan. Cut the bullshit!

 

And like the fucking Nazi's, expect to be disarmed. Not for ideological reasons. Because you (Hamas) are fighting a losing military battle. Make decisions on behalf of your people. People who call for smuggling routes for weapons to be re-opened as a condition of peace? A condition ''quoted'' by Hamas, not necessarily Hippy or yourself. Are not asking for peace. People asking Israel to back off unilaterally while this is a demand?  Even if they think they are asking for peace, mean well, are not actually doing so.

 

Naive, asking for the cycle to kill 1/2 million more people. 

 

 

Come back with a partition plan. 

 

Disarm.

 

Give back hostages.

[Canuck Surfer]

The next hostage rescue attempt goes wrong.  

 

 

[Boudrias]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This outlook is naive.

 

A serious element of truth. Israel has its huge warts. They should, will a different (political) question, stop their settlement program. Regardless? Won't resolve anything. So naive.

 

The losers of this war, that they started; should not be dictating terms.  Its not how peace, has ever (?), been accomplished.

Anyone who thinks Israel would be shown any mercy if they extended a peace without absolute security are naive or encouraging conditions for future destruction. Israel has no luxury for trust. Purely from a military perspective the West Bank is a threat. Settlements have a religious perspective but also a military one. 
 

The world has pumped money to Palestinians for many years. What have they done with it? The criminals who mask their activities in politics abuse their own people in undemocratic terrorism. Sunni Arabs have supported this activity for decades. They have used the Palestinian people for their own political purposes. 
 

The world, through the UN has largely done the same. Money has flowed in and UN relief groups have been infiltrated by terrorists and those agencies used against Israel. At the end of the day Israel cannot trust the rest of the world to defend them,  not even their so called allies. Israel knows they have to be able to stand alone. If that means they have to occupy Gaza and the West Bank then so be it. 

[Warhippy]

3 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This outlook is naive.

 

A serious element of truth. Israel has its huge warts. They should, will a different (political) question, stop their settlement program. Regardless? Won't resolve anything. So naive.

 

The losers of this war, that they started; should not be dictating terms.  Its not how peace, has ever (?), been accomplished.

It's naive.

 

But, you're ignoring that it's happening.

 

That's fine.  It's just an ongoing wart that has recently started expanding greatly.  It's only starting to occupy the space if the losers and they don't get a say because they lost.

 

No worries, naive to think otherwise 

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, Boudrias said:

At the end of the day Israel cannot trust the rest of the world to defend them,  not even their so called allies. Israel knows they have to be able to stand alone. If that means they have to occupy Gaza and the West Bank then so be it. 

 

Thanks for stating this.

 

If they do not trust their allies, one day their allies might do the same.

 

[Optimist Prime]

I still wonder if it isn't possible to have Jordan take over the west bank again, and as incentive for doing so gain Gaza as a territory thus providing them with a Mediterranean port along the lines of Kaliningrad to the Russians. Transjordan reborn? IMO the authorities of Jordan have done a good job of quelling the anti-Israeli sentiment among their Palestinian people. Might be time to give it a go in the West Bank.

[Boudrias]

39 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I still wonder if it isn't possible to have Jordan take over the west bank again, and as incentive for doing so gain Gaza as a territory thus providing them with a Mediterranean port along the lines of Kaliningrad to the Russians. Transjordan reborn? IMO the authorities of Jordan have done a good job of quelling the anti-Israeli sentiment among their Palestinian people. Might be time to give it a go in the West Bank.

Look what happened last time. Nearly caused a civil war in Jordan. With the change in attitude by the Sunni countries towards Israel maybe it could work. Economic prosperity in the ME would improve a lot of attitudes. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

 

But, you're ignoring that it's happening.

 

I am not ignoring anything.  Judging each crime, each obstacle to the peace process. 

 

23 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I believe that Hamas's core ideology is the largest source of their own suffering? I absolutely do! The biggest cause of conflict. A belief all who hold different religion or belief should subjugate themselves to those who command Islamic Revolution.... This is not Martin Luther King asking for justice by peaceful protest. It's a corrupt founding ideal. These are killers asking for more than their own place in society. This has to change!

 

A first world nation, Israel, needs to admit & manage its faults. The message of Dave's article in this case. Settlers / Settlements as a whole should be repealed. My message. Bringing to justice the even worse crime of Settlers running violently amok could be used as a leverage tool? Israel specifically needs to show it will imprison for life a Settler, for example, who will firebomb a Palestinian homestead. Not offer an armed guard! If Judea & Samaria are a 'security zone?'  The IDF should protect, peace abiding, Palestinians.  Palestinians, need a group who will commit to fight. But fight and police their own Abu Shujaa's not Israelis. Hamas would kill their own Martin Luther King, should he appear, as a collaborator. Regardless, the analogy is its hard to ask to ask community respect for police if George Floyds killer is not in jail! 

 

The counter argument also needs to be torn down. If Abu Shuja is going to fire bomb Israeli tourists in Jerusalem? He absolutely has done exactly stuff like that. So the mission to take him out was justified IMO. The extremists in Israel, and lets face it Israel has overwhelming military power? Use it to justify settlements. If they are going to fire bomb us, we may as well simply take over rather than simply have a security zone! Totally unacceptable.

 

Palestinians need someone to be an actual father of the brave? Make a statement, to themselves as well, 'we understand both we have done harm, perhaps have had leaders with the wrong goals!'  For practical purposes if nothing else. We don't want war! We agree to put down our arms, accept a full de-arming for peace. We do want control of West Bank & Gaza, East Jerusalem, commerce with Israel & the world; yet a home, or place to visit for a person of any religion or culture if they come in peace. 

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]