Hamas attacking Israel

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Thanks for stating this.

 

If they do not trust their allies, one day their allies might do the same.

 

 

I think it's more that Israel needs it's own capacity to defend itself.

 

Canada holds a lucky perch, we don't have to build a military to defend us from multiple threats. 

 

[bishopshodan]

41 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think it's more that Israel needs it's own capacity to defend itself.

 

Canada holds a lucky perch, we don't have to build a military to defend us from multiple threats. 

 

 

OK, but  i think you should be talking to Bouds.

 

I was just happy he had the nuts to state what seems like Israels view point. Dont trust allies or a lot of the world, defend themselves , occupy whatever land they feel they need to. 

[Canuck Surfer]

4 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I still wonder if it isn't possible to have Jordan take over the west bank again, and as incentive for doing so gain Gaza as a territory thus providing them with a Mediterranean port along the lines of Kaliningrad to the Russians. Transjordan reborn? IMO the authorities of Jordan have done a good job of quelling the anti-Israeli sentiment among their Palestinian people. Might be time to give it a go in the West Bank.

 

From a Western perspective, a sideliners view certainly, this is as good an idea as I have seen proposed.

 

As you know I was in Jordan in late June.  This first snap, taken at the baptism of Jesus site on the Jordan river.  And an Israeli military site across the river, cough in West Bank. YES that river to the sea Jordan River. Take note of the Kings message; the heritage and culture of all people, which includes these religious sites, is fundamental. 

 

 

 

In this context Jordan is a great idea!  Compare that message to the role of non Islamics according to Hamas;

 

It has called on members of the other two Abrahamic faiths—Judaism and Christianity—to accept Islamic rule in the Middle East. “It is the duty of the followers of other religions to stop disputing the sovereignty of Islam in this region, because the day these followers should take over there will be nothing but carnage, displacement and terror,” by decree.

 

 

[Bob Long]

51 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

OK, but  i think you should be talking to Bouds.

 

I was just happy he had the nuts to state what seems like Israels view point. Dont trust allies or a lot of the world, defend themselves , occupy whatever land they feel they need to. 

 

I'm not sure I can blame them given their history and the number of Muslim countries that want them all dead. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Regardless I do not believe Jordan will float?

 

* Historically Transjordan was formed by Jordans King in a sweetheart deal with the British.  The Hashemite Kingdom's religion and domain actually homesteaded from the Northern parts of what became Saudi Arabia & they absorbed 70% of Palestinian populations in creating Transjordan.  Its this single stroke which historically ''stole'' the most lands from Palestinians. Hashemites are a substantial minority to Palestinian people to this day in Jordan.

* Further, it was predominantly communication of Transjordan which asked many, even most, of the displaced Muslims / Palestinians to leave their homesteads as the 'Nakba' was initiated in what became Israel.  Not the Jews.  The reason was sinister, while they made their own deal with Britain, they conspired with the various surrounding Arabic nations and armies to wipe out the Jewish settlement.  It was believed they could ask the displaced to return as soon as the Jews were taken care of. Jordan joined the Saudi's, Egypt, his brother from Iraq, Syria and others launching war against the Jews as soon as Israel was decreed by the British & UN. 

 

That is the historical flaw.   

 

To this day Jordan wants none, NONE, of any ''refugee's'' which the world still calls Palestinians who harboured independent aspirations to that of Jordan. Or Israel of course! They literally expelled any militant Palestinians, massacring 25 to 30,000 doing so in 1970. Including Arafat & his PLO. Who have now mostly become Lebanon's problem. So yes, they know how to handle militants.  

 

Jordan is quoted as recently as last month, NONE, of the refugee's. Sinwar is quoted as wanting to assassinate Jordans King and political leaders for their association in trade, normalization of relations with both the US and Israel.

 

Its not going to happen.

 

I suggestion calling it a matter of fact, that a liberal or peace intending leadership needs to surface which will do the same with Hamas as Jordan did in Black September.

[Canuck Surfer]

Lost in the rush of media over the killing of Jewish hostages yesterday?

 

3 Police were assassinated in, what was it, Hebron?  By a terrorist if you use Israeli words. Police, not the military, but the IDF was in the territory and assassinated Hamas leader Abu Shujaa.  I suppose the Palestinian view of things is they would have been defending their rights in what is, of course, the West Bank. 

 

The interesting part is the shooter of these three police was one of President Abbas's presidential guards. The opposition leader for Palestinians against Hamas, his personal bodyguard! The PA is, of course, the agency, a now long offshoot of the PLO, currently handpicked to take over West Bank & Gaza until elections can be arranged; in the event of a (permanent) ceasefire. A move being pressed by Jordan, the Saudi's, UN, US, while Israel under Bibi spuriously not taking a position.

 

PS its already Sept 2 here...

 

  

[Ilunga]

12 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Bad analogy.  I alluded to MLK in a diff context just 6 or 10 hours ago.  

 

1) MLK was not a militant who demanded in 196? that all white people leave America. 

2) Nor was he shooting rockets from suburbs of Atlanta, arming descendents of sharecroppers in Mississippi.  

 

Oppressed, yes, but in many contexts Hamas / PLO own doing. In 1948, 2006, after 1967 partition plans were offered.  More generous than Settler abused versions currently I admit. Which were rejected & wars / militant resistance movements launched to take all territories occupied by Israel. An excuse used by Israel to suppress and steal more territory which I call on Israel to secede. BTW they have left both Gaza & Sinai after occupying. 

 

Anyone who believes Israel will leave full stop, perhaps go back to Auschwitz after being attacked Oct 7, Hamas's current position?  Are shortsighted.

 

Come back with a partition plan. Cut the bullshit!

 

And like the fucking Nazi's, expect to be disarmed. Not for ideological reasons. Because you (Hamas) are fighting a losing military battle. Make decisions on behalf of your people. People who call for smuggling routes for weapons to be re-opened as a condition of peace? A condition ''quoted'' by Hamas, not necessarily Hippy or yourself. Are not asking for peace. People asking Israel to back off unilaterally while this is a demand?  Even if they think they are asking for peace, mean well, are not actually doing so.

 

Naive, asking for the cycle to kill 1/2 million more people. 

 

 

Come back with a partition plan. 

 

Disarm.

 

Give back hostages.

 

When has any oppressor voluntarily stopped oppressing others ? 

 

Never. 

 

It has been when the oppressed, often with help from the international community have forced the oppressor to stop oppressing them.  

 

I believe my " pacifistic " non violent ideals are well documented.

 

 

As for a plan, watch the final minutes of that Jon Stewart video.

 

While he was, to a certain extent making his idea humourous, his METO, the Middle Eastern Treaty Organisation idea sounds like a great solution to me. 

 

He actually states a lot of things in that video that are both true, and humourous in a dark way. 

 

As he states, bomb Hamas' ?

How can you bomb an idea out of existence ?

How many bombs does that take ? 

Aren't you only making more Hamasass ?

Or is the plural Hami ? 

 

Seriously, military and intelligence experts have stated the same thing. 

 

Israel is losing this war on several fronts.

They are losing international support bit by bit. 

 

According to some sources Isreals economy is in trouble.

Their credit rating has been downgraded for the first time in the nations history. 

Tourists are refusing to visit Isreal, for various reasons, mostly their safety. 

 

There are no winners in war.

Only survivors.

And lots of victims.

[bishopshodan]

Israelis protest and workers' strike is planned after 6 more hostages die in Gaza

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/01/g-s1-20521/protests-and-strike-are-planned-in-israel-after-hostage-deaths

JERUSALEM — Grieving and angry Israelis surged into the streets Sunday night after six more hostages were found dead in Gaza, chanting "Now! Now!" as they demanded that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reach a cease-fire with Hamas to bring the remaining captives home.

Israel's largest trade union, the Histadrut, also pressured the government by calling a general strike for Monday — the first since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack that started the war. The strike aims to shut down or disrupt major sectors of the economy, including banking, health care and the country's main airport.

 

 

[Chicken.]

11 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Israelis protest and workers' strike is planned after 6 more hostages die in Gaza

https://www.npr.org/2024/09/01/g-s1-20521/protests-and-strike-are-planned-in-israel-after-hostage-deaths

JERUSALEM — Grieving and angry Israelis surged into the streets Sunday night after six more hostages were found dead in Gaza, chanting "Now! Now!" as they demanded that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu reach a cease-fire with Hamas to bring the remaining captives home.

Israel's largest trade union, the Histadrut, also pressured the government by calling a general strike for Monday — the first since the Oct. 7 Hamas attack that started the war. The strike aims to shut down or disrupt major sectors of the economy, including banking, health care and the country's main airport.

 

 

How many more hostages are left, lots I guess?

Seems from what I read that Hamas isnt interested in any sort of reasonable ceasefire? 
Tragic situations all around

[bishopshodan]

Just now, Chicken. said:

How many more hostages are left, lots I guess?

Seems from what I read that Hamas isnt interested in any sort of reasonable ceasefire? 
Tragic situations all around

 

I dont know.

Some dude on tv said Hamas claims to have accepted a 'US backed' ceasefire a bit ago. But I really dont know enough about it and if it was reasonable, whatever that looks like. 

 

I posted as I'm curious what the labour strike will be like, If it will be widely supported. 

[Yoshiyoshi]

21 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I dont know.

Some dude on tv said Hamas claims to have accepted a 'US backed' ceasefire a bit ago. But I really dont know enough about it and if it was reasonable, whatever that looks like. 

 

I posted as I'm curious what the labour strike will be like, If it will be widely supported. 

They did, then they didnt.

[Chicken.]

19 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

I dont know.

Some dude on tv said Hamas claims to have accepted a 'US backed' ceasefire a bit ago. But I really dont know enough about it and if it was reasonable, whatever that looks like. 

 

I posted as I'm curious what the labour strike will be like, If it will be widely supported. 

Seems interesting to me that worker unions could/would go on strike for more of a foreign policy issue and not for better wages/conditions etc. you’d think it would be pretty supported if they were to take that step

 

[Ilunga]

6 minutes ago, Chicken. said:

Seems interesting to me that worker unions could/would go on strike for more of a foreign policy issue and not for better wages/conditions etc. you’d think it would be pretty supported if they were to take that step

 

 

Their issues aren't work conditions.

 

What they want, is what the families of the hostages want, a ceasefire deal that will enable the return of the hostages.

 

It is obvious to anyone who has been following this particular phase of the conflict, that the leaders of Hamas' aren't willing to make the necessary concessions.

And Netanyahu and the decisions makers on the right aren't prepared to make the necessary concessions. 

 

The IDF want a ceasefire.

 

" NYT: Israeli Army Leaders Want Ceasefire in Gaza, Even With Hamas in Power.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-02/ty-article/nyt-reports-that-israeli-army-brass-want-cease-fire-in-gaza-even-with-hamas-intact/00000190-7390-d0bf-a9fd-77fa3a0a0000

 

" According to the New York Times, IDF officials are pushing for an end to the war in Gaza, believing it is the only chance to get the hostages back and descolate with Hezbollah. Netanyahu pushed back saying,  he didn't know who those sources were, ' but this will not happen' 

 

Biden stated what we all know.

Netanyahu doesn't want this war to end.

It is what's keeping him in power. 

 

" Biden, Every reason to think Netanyahu wants this war with Hamas' to go on "

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/04/biden-netanyahu-hamas-war-00161414

 

" Their is "every reason" for people in Israel to conclude their Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is prolonging the war to stay in power President Joe Biden said in a Time interview "

[Canuck Surfer]

10 hours ago, Ilunga said:

When has any oppressor voluntarily stopped oppressing others ? 

 

Never. 

 

It has been when the oppressed, often with help from the international community have forced the oppressor to stop oppressing them.  

 

Japan and Germany were both forced to disarm after starting, and losing WWII.  For periods exceeding 50 years. Thats when.

 

Oppression, as you are referring primarily, but not limited to Jewish Settlers & Settlements expanding their territory?  Has validity but is a one sided view.  Israel was founded by charter of the UN. There is a legal right for them to have a nation.  Their security zone in the West Bank is criticized. But Hamas and their allies in Lebanon have launched some 24,000 missiles in to Israel, pre Oct 7 since 2006. Those are acts of war which is why the security zones exist.  

 

Further, Hamas who is badly losing a war it started, is not wanting to stop at having West Bank, East Jerusalem & Gaza 'returned.' They also want Tel Aviv, West Jerusalem, the North Coast. Nor are they laying down their weapons to have Israel stop. They are actually insisting their weapons and people smuggling routines be restored. To provide the means for the next Oct 7. Which they have vowed to also execute. You can argue political pressure means Israel is losing. There is precious little incentive to stop military activities.   

 

Just the hostages, but relenting is virtually guaranteeing more hostages will suffer. Israel unilaterally gave up their security zone and settlement activities in Gaza in 2006. Look what this got them? They relented to pressure and gave up militants jailed in Israel for terrorist activity in 2011. Also a current demand of Hamas. One of the released militants was Sinwar who planned Oct 7, took these hostages. Catch 22. 

 

Imagine if Germany was not required to disarm. Their remaining leaders were left in power; with autonomy to re-arm themselves. 

 

Idealistic peer pressure did not stop Nazi's. Peer pressure is not stopping Putin in Ukraine, RSF/SAF in Sudan, did not stop Pol Pot in Cambodia. Is not stopping Hamas, nor Hezbollah. Did not stop Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Idi Amin, Mugabe, Abi Abdullah Saleh, Gadhafi, Pinochet, etc., etc., and on & on. 

 

Disarm, come up with a partition plan.

 

Get behind that if you hope to help!

[bishopshodan]

Some reports are that the protests are massive and there's some clashes with police.

 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-hostages-war-hamas-gaza-09-02-24-intl-hnk/index.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-hamas-hostages-cease-fire-middle-east/?id=113316733

 

 

[SilentSam]

13 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Their issues aren't work conditions.

 

What they want, is what the families of the hostages want, a ceasefire deal that will enable the return of the hostages.

 

It is obvious to anyone who has been following this particular phase of the conflict, that the leaders of Hamas' aren't willing to make the necessary concessions.

And Netanyahu and the decisions makers on the right aren't prepared to make the necessary concessions. 

 

The IDF want a ceasefire.

 

" NYT: Israeli Army Leaders Want Ceasefire in Gaza, Even With Hamas in Power.

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-07-02/ty-article/nyt-reports-that-israeli-army-brass-want-cease-fire-in-gaza-even-with-hamas-intact/00000190-7390-d0bf-a9fd-77fa3a0a0000

 

" According to the New York Times, IDF officials are pushing for an end to the war in Gaza, believing it is the only chance to get the hostages back and descolate with Hezbollah. Netanyahu pushed back saying,  he didn't know who those sources were, ' but this will not happen' 

 

Biden stated what we all know.

Netanyahu doesn't want this war to end.

It is what's keeping him in power. 

 

" Biden, Every reason to think Netanyahu wants this war with Hamas' to go on "

 

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/06/04/biden-netanyahu-hamas-war-00161414

 

" Their is "every reason" for people in Israel to conclude their Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is prolonging the war to stay in power President Joe Biden said in a Time interview "

There is an opinion gaining traction that comes within 2 weeks of an apparent conversation between Netanyahu and Trump ..

   just throwing this out there,.  
 

 But I wouldn’t doubt the 2 men,

both try desperately to hold power,

could make themselves stronger by aligning.

          If the shoe fits…

 

And if it’s true ,.  Trump and Netanyahu should hang.

           I am not against Israel in there fight against Hamas ..

    

 

    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited September 2 by SilentSam

[Canuck Surfer]

Here is that guard of Abbas, who shot three policeman, being tracked down and killed in Hebron. 

 

In front of a crowd of dozens, if not a hundred Palestinians.  Some who chant Allahu Akbar, 'God is Greater' and film on their phones as this takes place. 

 

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

Some reports are that the protests are massive and there's some clashes with police.

 

https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/israel-hostages-war-hamas-gaza-09-02-24-intl-hnk/index.html

https://abcnews.go.com/International/live-updates/israel-hamas-hostages-cease-fire-middle-east/?id=113316733

 

 

 

People are getting tired of Bibi. 

[Canuck Surfer]

14 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

" Biden, Every reason to think Netanyahu wants this war with Hamas' to go on "

 

This is correct, Bibi is as narcissistic as Trump. You are & were also correct about political pressure. Not only from Biden, but from Israelis. 1,000,000 marching and a nation wide strike? People, many, do want a ceasefire & the war to end.  

 

It would seem pretty likely, at this moment anyway, the democratic process which is in place in Israel; probably will remove Netanyahu its next election. Just possibly not while he has the right wing coalition minority keeping him in power until then. But his tyranny will end. Or maybe it was guilt? He capitulated and personally signed the release order of 1000+ militants, including Sinwar in 2011.  To release a single hostage of Hamas, Jewish soldier Gilad Shalit.  TBH, I dont believe its guilt, he capitulated then because of pressure. That ''Catch 22!'' Would have vowed to punish Hamas. Or steal land for Settlers coalescing the extremist coalition that props him in to power.

 

Regardless Oct 7 gave him his opportunity.

 

The catch now, just as in 2011; Sinwar is if anything even more brutal. His guards slaughtered the 6 hostages as they were retreating. So they would not be rescued. Slaughtered! Yahya will take more hostages if left in power.  Will re build tunnels as Israel re builds Gaza. Will launch more missiles from more rooftops.

 

Bibi has to go, but so does Yahya Sinwar. Why is there no pressure to exile or remove him?

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[RU SERIOUS]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

People are getting tired of Bibi. 

People are getting tired of Iran!

[Alflives]

3 hours ago, RU SERIOUS said:

People are getting tired of Iran!

I remember this from the 80’s. 

40 some years later and we still can’t get along. 

[Ilunga]

11 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Japan and Germany were both forced to disarm after starting, and losing WWII.  For periods exceeding 50 years. Thats when.

 

Oppression, as you are referring primarily, but not limited to Jewish Settlers & Settlements expanding their territory?  Has validity but is a one sided view.  Israel was founded by charter of the UN. There is a legal right for them to have a nation.  Their security zone in the West Bank is criticized. But Hamas and their allies in Lebanon have launched some 24,000 missiles in to Israel, pre Oct 7 since 2006. Those are acts of war which is why the security zones exist.  

 

Further, Hamas who is badly losing a war it started, is not wanting to stop at having West Bank, East Jerusalem & Gaza 'returned.' They also want Tel Aviv, West Jerusalem, the North Coast. Nor are they laying down their weapons to have Israel stop. They are actually insisting their weapons and people smuggling routines be restored. To provide the means for the next Oct 7. Which they have vowed to also execute. You can argue political pressure means Israel is losing. There is precious little incentive to stop military activities.   

 

Just the hostages, but relenting is virtually guaranteeing more hostages will suffer. Israel unilaterally gave up their security zone and settlement activities in Gaza in 2006. Look what this got them? They relented to pressure and gave up militants jailed in Israel for terrorist activity in 2011. Also a current demand of Hamas. One of the released militants was Sinwar who planned Oct 7, took these hostages. Catch 22. 

 

Imagine if Germany was not required to disarm. Their remaining leaders were left in power; with autonomy to re-arm themselves. 

 

Idealistic peer pressure did not stop Nazi's. Peer pressure is not stopping Putin in Ukraine, RSF/SAF in Sudan, did not stop Pol Pot in Cambodia. Is not stopping Hamas, nor Hezbollah. Did not stop Al Qaeda, the Taliban, Idi Amin, Mugabe, Abi Abdullah Saleh, Gadhafi, Pinochet, etc., etc., and on & on. 

 

Disarm, come up with a partition plan.

 

Get behind that if you hope to help!

 

Are you serious ?

 

That's when ?

Japan and Germany VOLUNTARILY gave up persecuting people ?

It took five years of war to force Germany to surrender. 

And the only time atomic weapons have been used, to force Japan to surrender. 

 

WW2 was the most costly war in human history and you are claiming that Germany and Japan voluntarily gave up persecuting people ?  

 

I am the only person in this thread advocating for what you call a " one sided view ".

We have all agreed that Israel has the right to exist.

That the Isreali people have the right to live in a safe environment. 

Nobody else in here is advocating the same thing for the  Palestinians. 

 

Once again, everybody condemns Hamas', and rightly so for their acts of terror, using Palestinians as human shields.

When I present evidence, from Isreali sources, that Isreal is doing the same thing, not one single person, including yourself has acknowledged this, let alone condemned them for it. 

 

So what you are saying, idealistic peer pressure did not stop the Nazis, then following your logic, the Palestinians in the West Bank should violently oppose the Jewish settlers who are terrorising them, and stealing their land and homes. 

And while the Gaza, before October 7, wasn't occupied, it was blockaded, they were suffering a form of persecution.

Many international organisations, Isreali organisations and Isrealis themselves stated that Israel was/is practising arpartheid upon the Palestinian people.

So again, according to your logic, the Nazis didn't give into idealistic peer pressure, so the Gazans should violently oppose their oppressors.

 

I have already come forward with a plan. 

 

An independent treaty organisation to monitor both sides. 

It would be for the best if it was a mix of regional countries, with a few international/European Countries as well. 

 

But first and foremost, as the families of the hostages, the Isreali population want, a ceasefire deal to return the hostages. 

 

[Ilunga]

46 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I remember this from the 80’s. 

40 some years later and we still can’t get along. 

 

I still play this.

The Raven, the album this song is off is a classic.

 

 

 

Did you hear about the man

Used to live out in Iran

He was luxury's greatest fan 

People ate out of his hand

People ate of his hand 

 

Shah Shah a go go

 

Sold the English all their oil 

Made the people work the soil 

Thought his kind had got it made 

But his kind had to pay to fade 

But his kind just had to fade 

 

Shah Shah a go go 

 

Then a priest in Paris France 

Made the people get up and da da dance 

Set he'd set the people free

We shall see we shall see 

 

Shah Shah a go go 

Edited September 3 by Ilunga

[Ilunga]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

This is correct, Bibi is as narcissistic as Trump. You are & were also correct about political pressure. Not only from Biden, but from Israelis. 1,000,000 marching and a nation wide strike? People, many, do want a ceasefire & the war to end.  

 

It would seem pretty likely, at this moment anyway, the democratic process which is in place in Israel; probably will remove Netanyahu its next election. Just possibly not while he has the right wing coalition minority keeping him in power until then. But his tyranny will end. Or maybe it was guilt? He capitulated and personally signed the release order of 1000+ militants, including Sinwar in 2011.  To release a single hostage of Hamas, Jewish soldier Gilad Shalit.  TBH, I dont believe its guilt, he capitulated then because of pressure. That ''Catch 22!'' Would have vowed to punish Hamas. Or steal land for Settlers coalescing the extremist coalition that props him in to power.

 

Regardless Oct 7 gave him his opportunity.

 

The catch now, just as in 2011; Sinwar is if anything even more brutal. His guards slaughtered the 6 hostages as they were retreating. So they would not be rescued. Slaughtered! Yahya will take more hostages if left in power.  Will re build tunnels as Israel re builds Gaza. Will launch more missiles from more rooftops.

 

Bibi has to go, but so does Yahya Sinwar. Why is there no pressure to exile or remove him?

 

 

 

 

 

There is shitloads of pressure of pressure to remove a Sinwar.

 

He is the leader of a terror organisation. 

He should be either caught and brought to trial, or killed if he can't be caught. 

 

Despite all the evidence you seem to believe that some form of Palestinian resistance to the Isrealis will be crushed. 

As so many have noted, you can't kill/destroy and idea. 

You have to come up with a better idea.

How many Palestinians have been " radicalised " by Isreali actions in Gaza ?

As I have stated many times, kill one civilian, " create " 10 terrorists.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/12/05/middleeast/israel-hamas-military-civilian-ratio-killed-intl-hnk/index.html

 

" Citing a study commissioned by ret. Army Gen. Stanley McChrystal which said for every civilian killed about 10 terrorists are recruited Moulton said. By that number Isreal has so far killed about 5,000 Hamas' terrorists but in the process they've recruited about 100,00 new adherents and this is bad news for Israel. "

 

Now this was back in December, going with the 2-1 ration of terrorists killed to civilians. 

 

Let's face the truth, the Isrealis are using this war to terrorise Palestinians and steal more land from them in the West Bank. 

They have virtually destroyed Gaza. 

Hamas is far from being a spent force. 

 

Again what is needed is a better idea for the Palestinian people than Hamas'.