Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

Here we are, on our high horse, passing judgement on the others. There's nothing confusing for me, I know who I am. You are the one confused that you speak for 8.2 billion fellow human beings.

 

What I have posted are the words of Israelis /Jews roman. 

 

I never stated I speak for 8.2 billion people, I identify with them.

 

Are you delusional enough to believe you speak for all Israelis ?

 

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

So, how are Mizrahi Jews discriminated against in Israel these days? And what does any of this have to do with Hamas wanting to kill all the Jews?

 

I have now posted a couple of articles- Isreali sources - that state Mizrahi Jews still face discrimination in Israel today. 

 

You can deny it all you want but the evidence is there.  

 

This discussion is not limited to Hamas' wanting to kill Jews/Isrealis as much as you would like it to be. 

 

We, as a species continue to make the same mistakes, over and over again.

It because of people like you.

People who never admit to their mistakes.

[RomanPer]

54 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

What I have posted are the words of Israelis /Jews roman. 

 

I never stated I speak for 8.2 billion people, I identify with them.

 

Are you delusional enough to believe you speak for all Israelis ?

 

Ignore.

[RomanPer]

44 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

I have now posted a couple of articles- Isreali sources - that state Mizrahi Jews still face discrimination in Israel today. 

 

You can deny it all you want but the evidence is there.  

 

This discussion is not limited to Hamas' wanting to kill Jews/Isrealis as much as you would like it to be. 

 

We, as a species continue to make the same mistakes, over and over again.

It because of people like you.

People who never admit to their mistakes.

The topic of this thread is “Hamas attacking Israel”, not “internal relationships between people of different background in Israel”. Go ahead and start a new thread if this is that important to you. At the same time start a separate thread on the same topic in Australia and every other country in the world.

[Ilunga]

Just now, RomanPer said:

The topic of this thread is “Hamas attacking Israel”, not “internal relationships between people of different background in Israel”. Go ahead and start a new thread if this is that important to you. At the same time start a separate thread on the same topic in Australia and every other country in the world.

 

 

I thought you were " ignoring " me. 

 

I don't know if you have noticed, but Hamas' attacked Isreal nearly 11 months ago. 

For the last 10 months and three week, it has been Isreal destroying Gaza.  

 

You don't get to dictate what people discuss in this thread. 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

@Canuck Surfer 

Brought up " race " in regards to Palestinians.

Then he asked what's the difference between Hamas and Zionism.

 

I brought up demographics that result from living within the Islamic Resistance sphere. Where an ugly doctrine, you called an idea, is activated in day to day life. 

 

I do not believe you have spent much time discussing the idea of Zionism since I asked the question. To me there is room for Zionism in our world, and for good reasons. Islamic Resistance needs a major rethink before I could support it. Freedom for Palestinians I have loads of time for, people not the doctrine. Hopefully a new ideology.

 

Commentary about genetic testing of non Jews, and internal or inherent conflict between Jewish groups is swatting at flies. It is not core to the question.

[Ilunga]

55 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I brought up demographics that result from living within the Islamic Resistance sphere. Where an ugly doctrine, you called an idea, is activated in day to day life. 

 

I do not believe you have spent much time discussing the idea of Zionism since I asked the question. To me there is room for Zionism in our world, and for good reasons. Islamic Resistance needs a major rethink before I could support it. Freedom for Palestinians I have loads of time for, people not the doctrine. Hopefully a new ideology.

 

Commentary about genetic testing of non Jews, and internal or inherent conflict between Jewish groups is swatting at flies. It is not core to the question.

 

I apologized to you privately for my emotional outburst a couple of nights ago.

 

I will now do it publicly.

I apologise for getting emotional, and not being the best person I could be.

You deserve better. 

 

I have a great deal of respect for you.

I don't want to damage our friendship any further, so I will refrain from engaging in, what I believe is an important topic. 

 

How Isrealis/Jews view themselves in relation to each other, and people who are not Israeli/Jewish. 

 

For reference, it's not only Isreali/Jews I feel this way about, it's all people.

 

This thread happens to be about the people in Palestine/Israel. 

 

As I have stated before, I will be the first to criticise our - Australia's - past and present treatment of our first nations people.

The shameful offshore detention saga...etc. 

 

[D.B Cooper]

I miss the days when this thread was informative and interesting.  
It’s turned into a goof match on repeat, day after day.  
What a shame as there are important things happening in the Middle East we could be discussing.  

[Optimist Prime]

2 hours ago, D.B Cooper said:

I miss the days when this thread was informative and interesting.  
It’s turned into a goof match on repeat, day after day.  
What a shame as there are important things happening in the Middle East we could be discussing.  

Jordan's foreign minister had some stern words in the last 24 hours. Something like " forced displacement of the Palestinians in the west Bank is for us a war declaration" I have not heard if the crown is making him walk that back.  

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Jordan's foreign minister had some stern words in the last 24 hours. Something like " forced displacement of the Palestinians in the west Bank is for us a war declaration" I have not heard if the crown is making him walk that back.  

 

They have always had the official philosophy they wanted no one with Hamas affiliation, nor PLO beforehand, in Jordan.

 

Their last war was with the PLO not Israel?  Would they be at war with Hamas or Israel? I could not find it online.

 

They have warned Israel several times not to cause displacements; which would be a fundamental violation of their own peace treaty.  

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

Here is a story about one of the victims,  Vivian Silver, of the  October 7 attack, and her son's reaction to her murder. 

 

" Out of the ashes, the dignity and compassion of Israeli peace activists give me hope " 

 

https://thejewishindependent.com.au/out-of-the-ashes-the-dignity-and-compassion-of-israeli-peace-activists-gives-me-hope 

 

" I wondered where Yonatan Zeigen found his strength; I realised it comes from his dead mother. Vivian Silver was a Canadian - Israeli humanitarian and peace activist, who was murdered by Hamas' gunmen at her home on Be'eri Kibbutz just a few kilometres from the Israel - Gaza border, on October 7. 

 

Yonatan is a man I have never met, but he's someone I greatly admire, and I can see his mothers convictions in her son. The interviews he has given since her murder show an even tempered judgement and a depth of thought that I suspect that I would not have been able to summon, had my own mother been so cruelly taken from me. 

 

Isreal and Hamas are still engaged in their bitter war and there's little to suggest it's conclusion will finally bring peace to this blighted corner of the world. But there is hope because of people like Vivian's son Yonatan and so many others like him. 

 

There activists that believe the conflicts involving Israel and Palestine - which I have been covering for my whole life - can be resolved if people look beyond their own differences.

Yonatan says the wars and bad blood continue not because his mother's work was stupid or naive and futile, with both sides locked in a natural, never ending enmity, but because her efforts were not pushed and championed by more people across the divide. 

 

Yonatan's experience has forced me to question what my own response might have been in the same situation. Despite everything he's gone through, he argues that his mother had the right ideas, but not enough people listen. My hope for 2024 is that more people at least try to listen, and that her life and work wasn't in vain. " 

 

When there are more people like Yonatan and his friends in Isreal and the occupied territories, and others listen and act on there message, that's when their will be a chance for peace in Isreal and the occupied territories.

[Taxi]

19 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

@Canuck Surfer 

Brought up " race " in regards to Palestinians.

Then he asked what's the difference between Hamas and Zionism.

 

I posted the thoughts of some Mizrahi Jew that believe Zionism is/ has been a way for Ashkenazi Jews to persecuted them and other Ethiopian Jews. 

Their words not mine.

 

How does the experience of the Ethiopian Jews compare to first nations people in Canada ?

Well for starters first nations people in Canada where there for thousands of years before the Jews got to what is now called Israel/Palestine.

And as many note, their experience is the same in the sense that Zionism is a colonial settler movement. 

 

On top of that the Rabbinical councils want to genetically test Jews, to prove their Jewishness. 

 

 

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/26956

 

It doesn't come much more racist than this.

Imagine if it was suggested that the Canadian or Australian government genetically test Canadians or Australians ?

There would be an uproar.

 

Israel is the only place where a people of all skin are united by one skin colour under one flag ?

Maybe because it's the only country that allows one " ethnicity ", " race ", certain group of people to migrate there. 

 

Unlike here in Australia, where we have 270 ethnic groups that make up our population. 

Every race, creed and religion.

 

Was watching the first round of the finals last night.

Just like at any event, the opening ceremony is a first nations person performing a, welcome to country.

This is an acknowledgement that this country is theirs. 

 

We have evolved.

No. You're just trying to single out Israel as racist, because they haven't 100% solved all of their race issues. Newsflash. No country has.

 

Lol. Holding out Australia and their treatment of their indigenous population as something to look up to.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

16 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

Jordan's foreign minister had some stern words in the last 24 hours. Something like " forced displacement of the Palestinians in the west Bank is for us a war declaration" I have not heard if the crown is making him walk that back.  

 

Found the statement anyway. Source Palestinian Chronicles.  

 

 

‘Declaration of War’ – Jordan Warns against Displacement of Palestinians

 

Jordan announced on Thursday that any attempt to displace Palestinians to the Jordanian territories would be considered a declaration of war.

 

Jordan’s Foreign Minister Ayman Safadi stated his country’s position on the topic in a joint press conference with his German counterpart Annalena Baerbock in Amman, the Anadolu news agency reported.

 

Safadi quoted Jordan’s King Abdullah, who has repeatedly said that this issue is considered a “red line”, and thus any attempt to displace Palestinians from the occupied West Bank towards Jordan will be viewed as a declaration of war and will be dealt with accordingly.

 

The minister questioned his German counterpart on when her country would impose sanctions on Israel, which “clearly violates international law and international humanitarian law”.

 

“How could anybody not endorse imposing sanctions on radical extremists like Ben-Gvir and Smotrich and others?”, he questioned.

 

 

Safadi also wondered whether the world “would allow one man’s dark ideology and political ambitions to doom the whole region to war and conflict,” pointing out that Israel has “defied even its friends”.

 

“The US, Germany and others have been pushing for ceasefire talks, Netanyahu aborted those talks,” Safadi said.

Jordan’s top diplomat accused Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of aborting the ceasefire deal saying that the man “changed his positions and withdrew from his commitments.”

 

He further rejected Israel’s presence near the Philadelphi Corridor and called for a full withdrawal from the besieged Gaza Strip.

 

“We have stated that we will not accept any approach that treats Gaza as a separate entity from the West Bank,” Safadi added.

 

The Foreign Minister brushed any Jordanian role in “the day after” the genocide ends in the Gaza Strip revealing that all the plans on the table are “purely security-related” and “have no chance of success.”

 

He stressed that his country does not want to sacrifice its soldiers by sending them “to become targets in an unresolved conflict.”

 

Safadi denied what he labeled as “Israeli fabrications” in reference to Israel accusing Jordan of arms smuggling from Jordan to the West Bank as a pretext for its attacks on Gaza and the West Bank.

 

He also said that Israel is launching another war in the West Bank and that the international community should immediately put an end to this before a regional escalation takes place.

 

 “Israel is waging another war, Netanyahu and his government are pushing towards an explosion of the situation in the entire region,” he said.

 

Safadi revealed that his country is in the process of preparing a legal file on Israel’s ongoing incursions into Palestinian holy sites in occupied Jerusalem with no mention of how this file would be used. 

 

Ongoing Genocide

 

Flouting a UN Security Council resolution demanding an immediate ceasefire, Israel has faced international condemnation amid its continued brutal offensive on Gaza.

Currently on trial before the International Court of Justice for genocide against Palestinians, Israel has been waging a devastating war on Gaza since October 7.

 

According to Gaza’s Ministry of Health, 40,878 Palestinians have been killed, and 94,454 wounded in Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza starting on October 7.

Moreover, at least 11,000 people are unaccounted for, presumed dead under the rubble of their homes throughout the Strip.

 

Palestinian and international organizations say that the majority of those killed and wounded are women and children.

 

Israel says that 1,200 soldiers and civilians were killed during the Al-Aqsa Flood Operation on October 7. Israeli media published reports suggesting that many Israelis were killed on that day by ‘friendly fire’.

 

The Israeli war has resulted in an acute famine, mostly in northern Gaza, resulting in the death of many Palestinians, mostly children.

 

The Israeli aggression has also resulted in the forceful displacement of nearly two million people from all over the Gaza Strip, with the vast majority of the displaced forced into the densely crowded southern city of Rafah near the border with Egypt – in what has become Palestine’s largest mass exodus since the 1948 Nakba.

 

Later in the war, hundreds of thousands of Palestinians began moving from the south to central Gaza in a constant search for safety. 

 

 

[Ilunga]

 

 

 

6 hours ago, Taxi said:

No. You're just trying to single out Israel as racist, because they haven't 100% solved all of their race issues. Newsflash. No country has.

 

Lol. Holding out Australia and their treatment of their indigenous population as something to look up to.

 

 

 

We, Australia, don't claim to be the most moral country in the world 

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/israel-is-most-moral-country-in-the-world-un-ambassador-claims_uk_66bca939e4b03da4fc019266

 

We, Australia, don't use our first nations people as human shields in war 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-13/ty-article-magazine/.premium/idf-uses-gazan-civilians-as-human-shields-to-inspect-potentially-booby-trapped-tunnels/00000191-4c84-d7fd-a7f5-7db6b99e0000

 

We, Australia, don't have terrorists who terrorise our first nations people 

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-22/ty-article/.premium/shin-bet-chief-warns-pm-and-ministers-jewish-terror-is-jeopardizing-israels-existence/00000191-7b9a-de04-af9b-7b9b38070000

 

 

 

https://thejewishindependent.com.au/jewish-terror-is-endangering-israel-security-chief

 

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-08-29/ty-article/.premium/israeli-army-joins-shin-bet-warning-over-jewish-terrorism-in-west-bank/00000191-9e2f-d453-ab9f-feafbdcf0000

 

 

" We don't torture and sexually abuse our first nations people in Jail "

 

https://www.haaretz.com/opinion/2024-09-03/ty-article-opinion/.premium/both-enemy-and-friend-we-must-not-let-october-7-render-medical-ethics-obsolete-in-israel/00000191-b952-de3d-abb7-ff7be7500000

 

" The most moral country in the world " ?

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

Paralympic athlete stripped of gold medal for displaying banned flag

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 9/7/2024 at 8:28 AM, Canuck Surfer said:

Jordan announced on Thursday that any attempt to displace Palestinians to the Jordanian territories would be considered a declaration of war.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

Courtesy @SilentSam

[Canuck Surfer]

Even if you are an Israeli supporter; this view is both optimistic & a poor choice of a word IMO? 

 

This analyst considers the remaining hostages Hamas's last remaining substantial asset. Some say you cannot kill an idea? Others you can hostages...

 

  

[Canuck Surfer]

My observation is the hostages, and the hope this cascades in to a regional war is what Hamas is banking on.

 

Which is why their fallback position is to NOT release hostages unless Israel withdraws & they get their Philadelphi corridor back. Fallback position to survive & re-arm.

 

My other thought? This is why activity ramped up in West Bank again.  To instigate more aggressive action by the IDF. That suddenly started being filmed on camera's and cascaded around the world on social media. This was instigated by Hamas, not Israel! Of course is why a militant driving from the Jordanian side killed three border guards. Which is why Abbas's bodyguard killed 3 policemen. Subsequently you see this new increase and outrage & condemnation from Jordan? In theory on standard relations with Israel & the US.  Hamas was not able, as it hoped, to draw either Hezbollah, although they are launching missiles nor Iran or anyone else to full blown regional war. This is why Hamas is suddenly trying to add a new theatre! The only way a Hamas side could ever hope for a military victory.

 

If I were Israel / Bibi; I would not reward Hamas for killing 6 hostages by giving in to their demands.  

 

I also would follow they advice I suggested Oct 9? Restraint not aggression is what is called for at this moment!

 

This was a moment where political opinion could have been turned. Where Hamas slaughtering helpless civilians was the pin prick on world opinion. The last thing I would be doing is bulldozing a few homes in the West Bank, regardless of a terrorist causing an incident. RESTRAINT!

 

It is a moment to say, should have said to the world & notably ask for a bigger concession;

 

'Palestine has an opportunity to make a statement,' is what Bibi should announce. 'Israel is willing to listen to Palestinian hopes to move past this conflict.' ''We call on HAMAS to condemn actions like a terrorist shooting border guards.'' ''Condemn shooting of police!'' Use that, not Gaza as a focal point.  ''We are willing to consider ways to ease restrictions in West Bank!'' I always called for rubber bullets at protests, not live rounds, dating to well before Oct 7. But instead of restraint; Israel shot that American / Turkish protester in the head. MFW was that ever stupid! Even if she was an operative, which is very possible, horribly stupid. Like 15 year old kids over the past 20 years throwing rocks. At a moment when the world was again in shock for Hamas actions? Restraint could have put all the pressure on Hamas!

 

''We will consider objective talks towards not just freedoms, peace & independence for Palestinians?''  

 

''We ask the world to stand behind us when we also ask for the return of our hostages!'' ''We ask for the world to consider whether we have a right not to suffer suicide bombings, missiles launched in to our civilian area's, attacks on our people. Our right to live!''

[Canuck Surfer]

Call on Hamas to condemn actions like shooting border guards, hostages, and police! Separate Palestinians from Hamas in all media & communications. 

 

We will give Palestinians...

 

We call on Hamas to return hostages...

 

 

By all means defend all current positions, including Phildelphi. But don't get drawn in to being the aggressor for the moment. Especially the West Bank. Don't hope you can rescue every hostage because you rescued three a month ago, 1 two weeks ago. Yet lost 6 last week. Let the world see Hamas killing people. Call on them to lay down their activities!

[Canuck Surfer]

Al Jazeera report. Its oddly not that Judgemental regarding Israel. No condemnation! Even discloses the rationale, and why this target & these targets historically in Syria. 

 

Both reporters interviewed were Lebanese.  It was almost a veiled storyline suggesting Israel is afraid of Hezbollah.