Hamas attacking Israel

[SilentSam]

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

The kid may be injured or the man lost his whole family. Let’s not assume that this video was a nefarious propaganda piece. 

 

Either way, the kid is alive, but it’s not like they have accessible and immediate medical assistance, right? 

the kid sits up, opens his eyes, and scratches his foot .

[SilentSam]

Hopefully confidence rises and more if this happens.

                   IDF  are cracking them.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

It's important this also not be represented solely as a Hezbollah - Israel conflict.  While directly so; the reality and the issues are much more complicated.

 

Israelis are not the only Hezbollah victims. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

33 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Agree and respect your post. 
 

Been following this for ‘ages’. Like many of the Members here. 
 

Elusive ‘peace’ still remains elusive when all sides continue using violence to attain peace. 
 

 

 

May I get away with a joke?  A one off grace, no punishment...

 

Followed by a serious comment...

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Sharpshooter said:

Force will be met with force. 
 

What’s the alternative then? Is the real alternatives perpetual force? 

 

They were making progress with the Saudis prior to Oct 7, so just have to hope that picks up again at some point. A non religious government in Iran would be nice too.

[SilentSam]

 

 

 

[Sharpshooter]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

the kid sits up, opens his eyes, and scratches his foot .

 

He did. No argument. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

They were making progress with the Saudis prior to Oct 7, so just have to hope that picks up again at some point. A non religious government in Iran would be nice too.

Netenyahoo thought this was a great time to bring Hezbollah into the conflict. 

[Sharpshooter]

So, once one is trying not to be genocidal, why not try to bring historical enemies into the fight? 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

I mean, I’m always one that loves a good fight but even I know that I shouldn’t bring all my enemy’s against me in one day. 

[Sharpshooter]

And, come on, you know me, I love taking on enemies. It’s what I do. 

[Sharpshooter]

Israel is just being stupid. 

[Sharpshooter]

Iron dome is great. But don’t be a stupid Drome. 

[Sharpshooter]

Hey, remember. Be cordial and respectful, please. 

[Canuck Surfer]

Again, not all Lebanese applaud Nasrallah. 

 

 

[RomanPer]

46 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Netenyahoo thought this was a great time to bring Hezbollah into the conflict. 

 

Bud, Hezbollah has been shooting rockets non-stop to the northern part of Israel since October 8 last year. Practically the entire population of Israel from the north has been evacuated. By different accounts between 80,000 to 300,000 people. When do you think enough is enough? And also where is the outcry around the world about this? Including our local posters who think Israel is the only problem in the region.

[Scottish Canuck 2.0]

6 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

It was so nice and quiet around here without your grandstanding. Please tell me again how many actual civilians were hurt in this? Not Hezbollah numbers, actual numbers. It seems like Israel can do no right in your books: bombing Gaza with advance notice - wrong, why don't you use more precise methods; using precise methods to blow off terrorist genitalia - wrong, but there's a chance of civilian sucking on that genitalia at that moment. GTFO.

Yeah, I bet it was really quiet in this echo chamber. Better to post propaganda videos all day long.

 

Bombing built up areas and saying “oh, but we told you to leave” is not safeguarding civilian life. Bombing schools and refugee camps under the pretense of Hamas being there isn’t either. Advance notice you say? How incredibly noble of them. “Move from your refugee camps in south to the north, but while you’re at it don’t go to the north either because we’re bombing that as well”.

 

Targeting military targets in a well-planned, precise strike, minimising civilian casualties, is realistic. The walkie talkie and pager incident was far from precise and a flagrant breach of international law. You choose to turn a blind eye to it because you choose to believe that the Israeli state can do wrong, and because the innocent victims caught up in it are the wrong colour and/or religion. In response to the atrocities committed by Hamas the IDF has committed many more of their own, and you openly support it.

 

Israel as a state and its supporters (I do not lump every Israeli in with that, as there are many who do not support this government or this war) have become everything they once stood against.

[Scottish Canuck 2.0]

4 hours ago, SilentSam said:

When you’re fighting terrorists and terrorism,  they do not abide by international law ..

    so why should the west?  Why should democracies?

 

 Fair is Fair .

Why should one not indiscriminately bomb civilians and target civilian infrastructure? Hmm.

 

The Gazan people caught up in this are not terrorists. Those killed in aid convoys or strikes on refugee camps are not terrorists. Israel has shown a complete disregard for civilian life, they’ve blanket bombed Gaza to the point at which there’s next to nothing left, they continue to oppress and seize land in the West Bank, and you think that’s OK? It’s a prime example of what you can get away with if you have the right friends and allies, and Western governments have lost all credibility in backing them and arming them.

 

I guess Russia has free rein to do whatever it wants in Ukraine too. Seeing as they’ve labelled Ukraine the terrorists. International law must not matter if it’s in Russian interests.

[Scottish Canuck 2.0]

2 hours ago, SilentSam said:

 

 

 

This is mindless propaganda and a gross simplification of Lebanon’s history and demographics.

 

The idea that Lebanon became "ruled by Islamists" is complete and utter bollocks. Lebanon is comprised of many different groups, like many other countries. Christians, Sunni Muslims, and Shia Muslims being the largest. The Druze too. Hezbollah are a Shia Islamist group, they hold significant influence, but Lebanon still has a Christian president and the Sunni population aren’t fond of Hezbollah either.

 

The idea that Lebanon was the Christian paradise beforehand is nonsense. It’s demographics and politics have been complex for a long time dating back to French colonialism and more recently the civil war.

 

Would you like to know one of the main factors that led to a higher Muslim population in Lebanon? Israel turfing out the Palestinians in 1948 and the influx of refugees that followed. But that doesn’t fit the narrative that you’re trying to spin.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, Scottish Canuck 2.0 said:

The idea that Lebanon became "ruled by Islamists" is complete and utter bollocks. Lebanon is comprised of many different groups, like many other countries. Christians, Sunni Muslims, and Shia Muslims being the largest. The Druze too. Hezbollah are a Shia Islamist group, they hold significant influence, but Lebanon still has a Christian president and the Sunni population aren’t fond of Hezbollah either.

 

Its not completely unfounded.

 

Hezbollah has an army and cache of weapons that more than rivals the Lebanon army.  So much so that Hezbollah operates outside the rule of law without repercussion from either police or the armed forces.  Tell me who investigates and holds them accountable for launching missile attacks into Israel.  More than 9000 in the last year.  More than 1000 average for each of almost every year the last twenty years? 

 

So the Lebanese political system, police and armed forces are either impotent to deal with them? Under the thumb of those with machine guns. The dominant issue, my opinion!

 

Or complicit. On the take and corrupt.

 

Google information about the Lebanese economy.  It has grown, or devolved actually, from a thriving economy in the 1970's and early 80's. To an economy & society increasingly desperate, dysfunctional. Which corresponds directly to amassing of Hezbollah influence.  Since, increasingly driven by a black market controlled economy, profited on, by militants. Not an elected, tax driven democratic system, distributing policy or reforms across its cross section of cultural groups you mention.  

[Canuck Surfer]

26 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Its not completely unfounded.

 

‘Iran’s Strategic Goal in Lebanon Has Been Achieved’   Article June 2, 2022 Amos Harel

 

Forty years after the Lebanon War, a top intelligence officer sheds light on the events and their aftermath, explaining why he believes Hezbollah now controls the state

 

Jun 2, 2022

 

Forty years ago today, on June 3, 1982, Palestinian terrorists attempted to assassinate Israel’s ambassador to Britain, Shlomo Argov. He was seriously wounded in the shooting attack. Israel retaliated, a day later, with a heavy bombardment of Palestine Liberation Organization command posts in Lebanon, though shortly after the assassination attempt it was already becoming clear that the attack had been perpetrated by a members of Abu Nidal’s organization, which opposed PLO Chairman Yasser Arafat and actually operated out of Iraq. The Israeli bombings – with volleys of Katyushas launched at the Galilee in their wake – ended 10 months of quiet on the northern border.

 

 

 

 

[Scottish Canuck 2.0]

48 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Its not completely unfounded.

 

Hezbollah has an army and cache of weapons that more than rivals the Lebanon army.  So much so that Hezbollah operates outside the rule of law without repercussion from either police or the armed forces.  Tell me who investigates and holds them accountable for launching missile attacks into Israel.  More than 9000 in the last year.  More than 1000 average for each of almost every year the last twenty years? 

 

So the Lebanese political system, police and armed forces are either impotent to deal with them? Under the thumb of those with machine guns. The dominant issue, my opinion!

 

Or complicit. On the take and corrupt.

 

Google information about the Lebanese economy.  It has grown, or devolved actually, from a thriving economy in the 1970's and early 80's. To an economy & society increasingly desperate, dysfunctional. Which corresponds directly to amassing of Hezbollah influence.  Since, increasingly driven by a black market controlled economy, profited on, by militants. Not an elected, tax driven democratic system, distributing policy or reforms across its cross section of cultural groups you mention.  

You’re putting words in my mouth and building a strawman. I never said Hezbollah wasn’t a problem. I simply said that it’s a massive oversimplification to say that Islamists “rule Lebanon”, and other groups still hold power, including Christians and Sunnis. The video posted is propaganda.

Saying the Lebanese government is either “impotent” or “complicit” - again, oversimplified. It’s not black and white. There are plenty of factions in the Lebanese government that oppose Hezbollah. And just because they can't directly confront Hezbollah militarily doesn’t mean the entire system is corrupt or useless.

 

You’re also implying I said Hezbollah wasn’t involved or responsible fore any conflicts, which I never did. I made no reference to the country being a tax-driven democratic utopia either.

 

To say that Muslims are the only reason for Lebanon’s economic collapse is wrong too. You’re missing a crap-ton of factors: corruption, foreign debt, the banking collapse, recovery from a civil war. 
 

Almost everything in both your post and the video quoted is a twisted, deliberate oversimplification.

[Canuck Surfer]

10 minutes ago, Scottish Canuck 2.0 said:

You’re putting words in my mouth and building a strawman. I never said Hezbollah wasn’t a problem. I simply said that it’s a massive oversimplification

 

Look; that twitter post you responded to was most definitely propaganda. 

 

Christians are the largest group in Lebanon amongst citizens.  My memory just over 1/3rd the population of Lebanon.  Split in 3rds with Sunni & Shia Muslims. A percentage of minorities. The constitution is built around equal (ish) power for these three groups.  There is a large population of non citizens; many the quote / unquote long standing Palestinian 'refugee's' of the Nakba if you follow a certain line of teaching. A healthy combination of those same 'Nakba' refugees were actually forcefully relocated refugee's of Jordan. Who slaughtered and expelled Palestinians associated with Arafat early in the 1970's where they had power aspirations; Google Black September. Have been in Lebanon as a growing group for 50 years. As refugees without rights to vote, even own property (officially). Who arrived in Lebanon shortly after & are widely attributed by Arabic & Western sources as the key source of populates to Hezbollah.

 

That constitution has been obliterated by the growing power of Hezbollah. Hezbollah original growth coincided with the 1979 (? 1978) rise of Khomeini & deposing of the Shah of Iran.  Iran then immediately started funding Hezbollah and other groups as an effort.  By 1983 they had backed a war in Lebanon, looking for power. Destroyed a US embassy. Kidnapped a British Ambassador.  Kidnapped a Lebanon head of the CIA parachuted in to restore a CIA faction completely wiped out by just mentioned embassy bombing.  Kidnapped said CIA head, then tortured him. Sent video of him being tortured back to the CIA to say two things; dont fuck with us & give us what we want. Google Bill Buckley. Before murdering him. These same Hezbollah operatives tortured and kill the kids of Lebanese politicians, if not the politicians themselves. Like the PLO in the early 1970's, went on a kidnapping and murder rampage in the 1980's to extort power.

 

This long standing tactic Sinwar is using with current hostages in Gaza?  Was taught to him, practiced by early Hamas 2knd in command Mohammad Deif, killed last month in Gaza & Hezbollah senior leader Imad Mughniyeh assassinated in 2008. Both heavily involved in Lebanese war in 2006. Said to have sent video's of himself torturing Buckley to the US. He was leader senior to Nasrallah. All young operatives involved & personally grabbing kidnap victims & wringing their necks with their own hands in 1983 in Lebanon under direction from Iran.

 

These are not strawman points, nor is using your quote to address real issues personal. 

 

Hezbollah, like Hamas is here to militantly grab power for themselves.

 

Not seek nor protect Palestinian & Lebanese sovereignty.  

[Boudrias]

57 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Look; that twitter post you responded to was most definitely propaganda. 

 

Christians are the largest group in Lebanon amongst citizens.  My memory just over 1/3rd the population of Lebanon.  Split in 3rds with Sunni & Shia Muslims. A percentage of minorities. The constitution is built around equal (ish) power for these three groups.  There is a large population of non citizens; many the quote / unquote long standing Palestinian 'refugee's' of the Nakba if you follow a certain line of teaching. A healthy combination of those same 'Nakba' refugees were actually forcefully relocated refugee's of Jordan. Who slaughtered and expelled Palestinians associated with Arafat early in the 1970's where they had power aspirations; Google Black September. Have been in Lebanon as a growing group for 50 years. As refugees without rights to vote, even own property (officially). Who arrived in Lebanon shortly after & are widely attributed by Arabic & Western sources as the key source of populates to Hezbollah.

 

That constitution has been obliterated by the growing power of Hezbollah. Hezbollah original growth coincided with the 1979 (? 1978) rise of Khomeini & deposing of the Shah of Iran.  Iran then immediately started funding Hezbollah and other groups as an effort.  By 1983 they had backed a war in Lebanon, looking for power. Destroyed a US embassy. Kidnapped a British Ambassador.  Kidnapped a Lebanon head of the CIA parachuted in to restore a CIA faction completely wiped out by just mentioned embassy bombing.  Kidnapped said CIA head, then tortured him. Sent video of him being tortured back to the CIA to say two things; dont fuck with us & give us what we want. Google Bill Buckley. Before murdering him. These same Hezbollah operatives tortured and kill the kids of Lebanese politicians, if not the politicians themselves. Like the PLO in the early 1970's, went on a kidnapping and murder rampage in the 1980's to extort power.

 

This long standing tactic Sinwar is using with current hostages in Gaza?  Was taught to him, practiced by early Hamas 2knd in command Mohammad Deif, killed last month in Gaza & Hezbollah senior leader Imad Mughniyeh assassinated in 2008. Both heavily involved in Lebanese war in 2006. Said to have sent video's of himself torturing Buckley to the US. He was leader senior to Nasrallah. All young operatives involved & personally grabbing kidnap victims & wringing their necks with their own hands in 1983 in Lebanon under direction from Iran.

 

These are not strawman points, nor is using your quote to address real issues personal. 

 

Hezbollah, like Hamas is here to militantly grab power for themselves.

 

Not seek nor protect Palestinian & Lebanese sovereignty.  

Israel does what it has to survive. Apologists for the massive failure of surrounding countries that directly or indirectly support Hamas and Hezbollah talk about Israeli attrocities. When people in Lebonon, Syria, Jordan, Eqypt and Gaza start shooting these terrorists then maybe I will sympathize a little more. Iran is the brains behind what remains of the terrorist orgs shooting rockets. At some point there will be a showdown with them as well. Much of what we hear from the press and the UN is BS.  

[Bob Long]

7 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

Netenyahoo thought this was a great time to bring Hezbollah into the conflict. 

 

Switch Canada for Israel, Russia for Lebanon in this story, what would you do.

 

https://thehill.com/policy/defense/4893654-hezbollah-has-fired-more-than-8000-rockets-toward-israel-since-october-7-ambassador/