Hamas attacking Israel

[DeNiro]

48 minutes ago, SilentSam said:

They keep having meetings and get hit ..

 

      I wouldn’t be surprised.

 

 

 

 

Round and round it goes.

 

This has been happening since the Cold War. 
 

First it was the US supplying the Taliban to fight Russia. Then it was Russia supplying the Taliban to fight the US.
 

Al Qaeda? Hezzbolah? Houthis? 

 

The only winners are the arms dealers.

[Olli Juolevi]

38 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

AI can do a lot more than we even realize.

 

You think the AI the public is playing around with is as advanced as it gets?
 

I’m sure governments and military are light years ahead of us.

 

 

 

That specific death is being reported by multiple news outlets. I lean towards it being real. 

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, Olli Juolevi said:

That specific death is being reported by multiple news outlets. I lean towards it being real. 

Never said the death wasn’t real.

[Olli Juolevi]

Just now, DeNiro said:

Never said the death wasn’t real.

Alright, what proof do you have that the video is fake? 

[DeNiro]

18 minutes ago, Olli Juolevi said:

Alright, what proof do you have that the video is fake? 

My eyesight? 

 

Sorry but videos aren’t real until proven fake, it’s the other way around. 

 

We live in such a gullible world now it’s actually kinda scary.

[Olli Juolevi]

18 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

My eyesight? 

 

Sorry but videos aren’t real until proven fake, it’s the other way around. 

 

We live in such a gullible world now it’s actually kinda scary.

Well you're the only person I've seen claiming it's fake so I would say it's on you to provide evidence of that claim. "My eyes" isn't sufficient.

 

My eyes see different than yours. 

[DeNiro]

24 minutes ago, Olli Juolevi said:

Well you're the only person I've seen claiming it's fake so I would say it's on you to provide evidence of that claim. "My eyes" isn't sufficient.

 

My eyes see different than yours. 

How about you provide verified reports on the video instead? That’s how proper journalism works. I don’t have to explain how there’s thousands of fake videos on the internet do I?

 

The evidence is physics. Objects going that fast and on a trajectory don't just fall straight down to the ground. Bodies that are hit by objects that are going that fast and are that heavy don’t just bounce away like a video game. 

 

People are going to be easier to fool than I realized it seems.

[grover]

6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I imagine you have all the best of intentions?  Welcome to CDC Forums!

 

Your not the only one disappointed in support. 

 

To me its odd that terrorists, my choice of words with apologies, have more support from the West than amongst other Arabic & Muslim people...

 

If you are not a terrorist supporter, how do you separate Hamas or Hezbollah from Palestinians in your thinking? 

 

 

Thx for the welcome Canuck Surfer

 

Just to clarify your "separate Hamas or Hezbollah from Palestinians" statement. Are you advocating the israeli right to kill children, label every Palestinian as a potential terrorists (and treating them as such), and using Palestinians as human shields to perpetrate a genocide? I don't completely understand your background for this question?

 

As for me supporting terrorists, when less than 1/3 of the worlds countries declare Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorists, it certainly grants me cause to question the labeling of these groups as terrorists. But when you research the (mostly western) claims of terrorism, it's hard not to see israel as a terrorist state.

 

But by all means, label me a supporter of terrorism, as I have alot of sympathy for the Palestinians and their cause. I won't deny that. But if you could answer this. Do you think that Oct. 7 would have happened if israel had honoured its commitments to the Oslo Accords of '93, with the two state solution? Hopefully this question tips you off on where I lean; which is just to stop all the killing and violence, and to deescalate the conflict in West Asia.

 

[Olli Juolevi]

 

 

19 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

How about you provide verified reports on the video instead? That’s how proper journalism works. I don’t have to explain how there’s thousands of fake videos on the internet do I?

 

The evidence is physics. Objects going that fast and on a trajectory don't just fall straight down to the ground. Bodies that are hit by objects that are going that fast and are that heavy don’t just bounce away like a video game. 

 

People are going to be easier to fool than I realized it seems.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/02/cctv-shows-palestinian-man-killed-by-iran-rocket-shrapnel/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-overnight-deaths-school-1.7339849

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-man-killed-by-shrapnel-from-iranian-missile-near-jericho/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cctv-shows-sole-victim-iran-164253316.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAACrWlmvKoc1F4SpO5jUjAWqV2KsFIjlVqo5C5baOPp2FNWxyRa0SO1IYchL2HkQ-O4XL7R4C5hGLYLZvmLpEX9Zpjm7AkhHAZrfAml81PCD1bKLHvkSHIo0wii1Xp4P9ziRr7MQotSjUYouLoPs_X_3WcKNcwHT-D-HB10IcDF6

 

What trajectory do you think it was travelling on? As I mentioned in another comment, this was not a rocket itself. It was a part of that rocket that is shed once the fuel has been spent, so it stands to reason that it would fall in a relatively straight downward trajectory. 

 

 “A Palestinian worker in Jericho was killed when pieces of a rocket fell from the sky and hit him,” Hussein Hamayel, the governor of Jericho, said late on Tuesday night.

 

You're the only person I've seen suggest that the video is fake. Thus, the onus is on you to provide evidence for your claims. I explained to you why what you saw in the video made perfect sense. It's okay to be uninformed, but don't be willfully ignorant.

Edited Thursday at 06:23 PM by Olli Juolevi

[SilentSam]

Israel chopping off more fingers to Iran .

 

 

 

[Alflives]

24 minutes ago, Olli Juolevi said:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/02/cctv-shows-palestinian-man-killed-by-iran-rocket-shrapnel/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-overnight-deaths-school-1.7339849

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-man-killed-by-shrapnel-from-iranian-missile-near-jericho/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cctv-shows-sole-victim-iran-164253316.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAACrWlmvKoc1F4SpO5jUjAWqV2KsFIjlVqo5C5baOPp2FNWxyRa0SO1IYchL2HkQ-O4XL7R4C5hGLYLZvmLpEX9Zpjm7AkhHAZrfAml81PCD1bKLHvkSHIo0wii1Xp4P9ziRr7MQotSjUYouLoPs_X_3WcKNcwHT-D-HB10IcDF6

 

What trajectory do you think it was travelling on? As I mentioned in another comment, this was not a rocket itself. It was a part of that rocket that is shed once the fuel has been spent, so it stands to reason that it would fall in a relatively straight downward trajectory. 

 

 “A Palestinian worker in Jericho was killed when pieces of a rocket fell from the sky and hit him,” Hussein Hamayel, the governor of Jericho, said late on Tuesday night.

 

You're the only person I've seen suggest that the video is fake. Thus, the onus is on you to provide evidence for your claims. I explained to you why what you saw in the video made perfect sense. It's okay to be uninformed, but don't be willfully ignorant.

@DeNiro makes a very good point about the corpse bouncing away after being squashed. When a big is stepping it doesn’t fly out from underfoot. 
Yes, some poor sod was the bug to a falling rocket. But maybe the video is an AI representation of what happened?

Edited Thursday at 06:45 PM by Alflives

[DeNiro]

34 minutes ago, Olli Juolevi said:

 

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/10/02/cctv-shows-palestinian-man-killed-by-iran-rocket-shrapnel/

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-overnight-deaths-school-1.7339849

https://www.timesofisrael.com/palestinian-man-killed-by-shrapnel-from-iranian-missile-near-jericho/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/cctv-shows-sole-victim-iran-164253316.html?guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNhLw&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAACrWlmvKoc1F4SpO5jUjAWqV2KsFIjlVqo5C5baOPp2FNWxyRa0SO1IYchL2HkQ-O4XL7R4C5hGLYLZvmLpEX9Zpjm7AkhHAZrfAml81PCD1bKLHvkSHIo0wii1Xp4P9ziRr7MQotSjUYouLoPs_X_3WcKNcwHT-D-HB10IcDF6

 

What trajectory do you think it was travelling on? As I mentioned in another comment, this was not a rocket itself. It was a part of that rocket that is shed once the fuel has been spent, so it stands to reason that it would fall in a relatively straight downward trajectory. 

 

 “A Palestinian worker in Jericho was killed when pieces of a rocket fell from the sky and hit him,” Hussein Hamayel, the governor of Jericho, said late on Tuesday night.

 

You're the only person I've seen suggest that the video is fake. Thus, the onus is on you to provide evidence for your claims. I explained to you why what you saw in the video made perfect sense. It's okay to be uninformed, but don't be willfully ignorant.

None of those verify the authenticity of the video though…

 

They simply say that the video is circulating online…I never said he wasn’t killed.

 

At this point it’s still just an unverified video circulating. So no the onus isn’t on me. You’ve said nothing that explains why the rocket fell like that or the body bounced to the side.

 

Anyways those who wanna be convinced will be, no point arguing. We’re definitely heading into scary times though.

 

 

[SilentSam]

 

 

[StrayDog]

1 hour ago, grover said:

Thx for the welcome Canuck Surfer

 

Just to clarify your "separate Hamas or Hezbollah from Palestinians" statement. Are you advocating the israeli right to kill children, label every Palestinian as a potential terrorists (and treating them as such), and using Palestinians as human shields to perpetrate a genocide? I don't completely understand your background for this question?

 

As for me supporting terrorists, when less than 1/3 of the worlds countries declare Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorists, it certainly grants me cause to question the labeling of these groups as terrorists. But when you research the (mostly western) claims of terrorism, it's hard not to see israel as a terrorist state.

 

But by all means, label me a supporter of terrorism, as I have alot of sympathy for the Palestinians and their cause. I won't deny that. But if you could answer this. Do you think that Oct. 7 would have happened if israel had honoured its commitments to the Oslo Accords of '93, with the two state solution? Hopefully this question tips you off on where I lean; which is just to stop all the killing and violence, and to deescalate the conflict in West Asia.

 

A moment, please. Are you saying that Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations? 

And, if you could, capitalize Israel. I note you did so for Palestine, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It makes it seem you think Israel is lesser....

[Gator]

[Boudrias]

1 hour ago, SilentSam said:

Israel chopping off more fingers to Iran .

 

 

 

WTI is up $3.83 per barrel right now. Israel must have greater objectives than what we have seen as yet. IMHO they will hit targets inside Tehran at some point. Israel knows the end will only come when there is a regime change in Iran. 

[grover]

12 minutes ago, StrayDog said:

A moment, please. Are you saying that Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations? 

And, if you could, capitalize Israel. I note you did so for Palestine, Hamas, and Hezbollah. It makes it seem you think Israel is lesser....

Officially, Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations, as the UNSC (yes, I'm aware that the UN is dysfunctional as a governing body) has not passed a resolution declaring them as such. Also there are only about 60 of a total of 195 nations that have denounced Hamas and Hezbollah. That not even half of the worlds nations identify Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations makes me adopt the democratic viewpoint that they are not.

 

But most western nations say Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, so I understand those that agree with them...

[Canuck Surfer]

1 hour ago, grover said:

israel had honoured its commitments to the Oslo Accords of '93, with the two state solution

 

Both sides broke the accord. Its also widely believed Oct 7 occurred to disrupt normalization with Saudi Arabia and other nations with Israel.

 

My observation was Hamas had already formed and was conducting civil war, I'll call it turf war, with the PLO/PA. They also performed a series of bus bombings and other attacks in Israel to deliberately disrupt Oslo. Such as lobbing missiles in to civilian areas, taking hostages. As Hamas were fully against peace with Israel whom they believe did not have a right to be in Israel at all.  Peace is hard when you are in a militant battle for power over your own streets. The PA, not an elected group either, did not have a mandate, nor civil control to offer peace. 

 

The extremists in Israel?  Used enforcing civil control to create security zone. Which might have been fair enough if they used the security zones just to combat terror, not create settlements.  The dispute has blame on both sides. Plenty.

 

There have been times of effort at peace?  Not by Hamas that I am aware of? In 2006 Israel fully withdrew from Gaza voluntarily. Even forced its own civilians out using the IDF. A two state discussion was also floated. Thoroughly rejected by Hamas, who launched a war against Israel instead as soon as they left.  

 

 

 

 

  

[Canuck Surfer]

11 minutes ago, grover said:

Officially, Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations

 

LOL; those 9000 odd missiles launched from Southern Lebanon were not launched by the Lebanese army.

 

Hezbollah is independent and has its own military.  Call them whatever you want. 

[StrayDog]

20 minutes ago, grover said:

Officially, Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations, as the UNSC (yes, I'm aware that the UN is dysfunctional as a governing body) has not passed a resolution declaring them as such. Also there are only about 60 of a total of 195 nations that have denounced Hamas and Hezbollah. That not even half of the worlds nations identify Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations makes me adopt the democratic viewpoint that they are not.

 

But most western nations say Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, so I understand those that agree with them...

Ok. They are not terrorist organizations. What are they, then?

[grover]

29 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

LOL; those 9000 odd missiles launched from Southern Lebanon were not launched by the Lebanese army.

 

Hezbollah is independent and has its own military.  Call them whatever you want. 

So is israel a terrorist nation, since they use human shields, indiscriminately bomb and attack civilian shelters they themselves told the Palestinians to migrate to? For attacking hospitals, turning off all water, electricity and gas in Gaza? Chasing people from their homes, and then destroying them? For copying the US detention practices at al graib (spelling)? If israel isn't a terrorist state, then by definition, Hamas isn't.

 

Hezbollah is a widely recognized political party in Lebanon. And yes, they have their own militia.

[grover]

52 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Both sides broke the accord. Its also widely believed Oct 7 occurred to disrupt normalization with Saudi Arabia and other nations with Israel.

 

My observation was Hamas had already formed and was conducting civil war, I'll call it turf war, with the PLO/PA. They also performed a series of bus bombings and other attacks in Israel to deliberately disrupt Oslo. Such as lobbing missiles in to civilian areas, taking hostages. As Hamas were fully against peace with Israel whom they believe did not have a right to be in Israel at all.  Peace is hard when you are in a militant battle for power over your own streets. The PA, not an elected group either, did not have a mandate, nor civil control to offer peace. 

 

The extremists in Israel?  Used enforcing civil control to create security zone. Which might have been fair enough if they used the security zones just to combat terror, not create settlements.  The dispute has blame on both sides. Plenty.

 

There have been times of effort at peace?  Not by Hamas that I am aware of? In 2006 Israel fully withdrew from Gaza voluntarily. Even forced its own civilians out using the IDF. A two state discussion was also floated. Thoroughly rejected by Hamas, who launched a war against Israel instead as soon as they left.  

 

 

 

 

  

I'm pretty sure the bus bombings and other attacks in israel had little to do with the Oslo Accords. See "Cave of the patriarchs massacre" and "Yahya Ayyash". All though I agree Hamas rejected the idea of a 2 state solution, as did every the israeli far right. So yeah, the israeli far right and Hamas also helped bring down the Oslo Accords, but I think the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, and israels continuation of creating new settlements in the West Bank were the main issues. I also think the jewish far right knew exactly where to throw the flaming match

 

I have no issues with israels right to defend itself, every country should have that right. But its the methods they use. And the dehumanization of the Palestine people. No people should be dehumanized, as in my mind, dehumanization creates resentment and does nothing to build a lasting peace... And isn't that what everyone really wants, peace?

[SilentSam]

5 hours ago, DeNiro said:

My eyesight? 

 

Sorry but videos aren’t real until proven fake, it’s the other way around. 

 

We live in such a gullible world now it’s actually kinda scary.

seeing Porsche’s again D?

 

 

 

 

[Alflives]

@grover 

[SilentSam]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

You know what, I'll take a suspension. Fuck you!

with you,

     one for the team Roman ! 
 

I don’t know where these whiffle ball snipers come from,.  But they don’t last long .