Hamas attacking Israel

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

Now this makes sense. Maybe the world should support ridding GAZA of HAMAS and help the Palestinian people to do that?  

[Odd.]

5 hours ago, bolt said:

Palestine elected Hamas as their Governnent.  Who is exactly is controlling Gaza?  Firing thousands of rockets per day from apartment buildings into Israel and using human shields is brave?    

 

https://torontosun.com/news/batras-burning-questions-how-can-you-be-a-canadian-and-support-hamas

 

Anyways a question for you. How can you be a Canadian and support Hamas?  Did you support ISIS as well?

 

@Ryan Strome @Warhippy both replied before I could and pretty nailed it

 

Supporting Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. What a lazy response.

[The Lock]

5 hours ago, bolt said:

Palestine elected Hamas as their Governnent.  Who is exactly is controlling Gaza?  Firing thousands of rockets per day from apartment buildings into Israel and using human shields is brave?    

 

https://torontosun.com/news/batras-burning-questions-how-can-you-be-a-canadian-and-support-hamas

 

Anyways a question for you. How can you be a Canadian and support Hamas?  Did you support ISIS as well?

 

I have no doubt you're passionate about this whole thing. However, I want to point out that Hamas still means one thing while Palestine still means another. Palestine is still a population with people and families much like what we have here in Canada.

 

Hamas just happens to be who's in charge of them, much like how someone like Trump for example has been in charge of the US. Could you imagine saying the exact same things as you're saying about the US just because Trump was in charge? Is that fair to the population that didn't vote for Trump? The same thing can be said for Hamas and Palestine.

 

At the end of the day, this whole event is unfortunate for BOTH sides. There are people suffering on BOTH sides. There are populations dying on BOTH sides. So I implore you to consider who you're actually mad at. Are you mad at Hamas or are you mad at Palestine? There's a difference and it's much much more complicated than you're making it out to be. It's even much more complicated than I'm even making it out to be with this very post.

Edited October 14, 2023 by The Lock

[Canuck Surfer]

53 minutes ago, Provost said:

I certainly didn’t suggest that, and I haven’t seen anyone on here suggest it.

 

Almost universally, it is recognized that the 1967 borders are the framework for peace.  Not even the 1948 borders.

 

People can have absolutely valid arguments as to the level of injustice the creation of Israel in the middle of Palestine.  It was certainly unjust to the Palestinians.  It was done to balance out injustices to Jews.  That doesn’t mean it is really possible to go back and undo it… no more than reconciling with indigenous people here means packing up and going to Europe or wherever folks came from.

 

https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/

 

 

 

Sure.

 

Recommend some softening of the Nazi talk. Palestinians deserve their own space & peace. So do Jews. It will be hard while their rulers make, literally hundreds of millions of dollars in arms & other illegal trade while their people suffer. Not that my opinion matters, it would help if there was not corrupt / militant leaders. It is as big, IMO bigger than the Israeli issue. But it would help if someone, both followed the rule of law as a start. 

[moosehead]

27 minutes ago, Odd. said:

@Ryan Strome @Warhippy both replied before I could and pretty nailed it

 

Supporting Palestine does not equal supporting Hamas. What a lazy response.

 

So many Canadians are intellectually lazy/racist so automatically support Israel whose culture may be more similar to their own background. Sad.

 

It is time now to negotiate a peaceful solution to this region.  

[The Lock]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

So many Canadians are intellectually lazy/racist so automatically support Israel whose culture may be more similar to their own background. Sad.

 

It is time now to negotiate a peaceful solution to this region.  

 

Personally, I just want to see both sides get along and be able to live in harmony.

 

Unfortunately, that ain't happening anytime soon.

[moosehead]

Just now, The Lock said:

 

Personally, I just want to see both sides get along and be able to live in harmony.

 

Unfortunately, that ain't happening anytime soon.

 

We need to stay positive and hope  / demand a peaceful resolution - sooner the better.

I too just want to see peace and no more human suffering in this region. 80  years is ridiculous.  Time to fix this situation. 

[The Lock]

Just now, moosehead said:

We need to stay positive and hope  / demand a peaceful resolution - sooner the better.

I too just want to see peace and no more human suffering in this region. 80  years is ridiculous.  Time to fix this situation. 

 

Yeah, unfortunately, we have 2 different populations to convince of that very outcome and it's very clear that the governments have other things in mind.

[bolt]

8 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

So many Canadians are intellectually lazy/racist so automatically support Israel whose culture may be more similar to their own background. Sad.

 

It is time now to negotiate a peaceful solution to this region.  

So anyone who now supports Israel is a lazy racist and we can just ignore the rise of anti-semitism? Is negotiating a peaceful end with Hamas terrorists even possible?

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 14, 2023 by bolt

[moosehead]

11 minutes ago, bolt said:

So anyone who now supports Israel is a lazy racist and we can just ignore the rise of anti-semitism? Is negotiating a peaceful end with Hamas terrorists even possible?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Quite likely intellectually lazy and probably racist yes......      

It means they  support Apartheid, Ethnic cleansing , occupations, and oppression.

 

Yes , you are correct.   I believe all humans are equal. 

Edited October 14, 2023 by moosehead

[Ryan Strome]

15 minutes ago, bolt said:

So anyone who now supports Israel is a lazy racist and we can just ignore the rise of anti-semitism? Is negotiating a peaceful end with Hamas terrorists even possible?

 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely not.

6 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Quite likely intellectually lazy and probably racist yes......      

It means they  support Apartheid, Ethnic cleansing , occupations, and oppression.

 

Yes , you are correct.   I believe all humans are equal. 

I believe there is a bit too much emotion and anger while making this response. Supporting Israel doesn't mean those things. You can still support something while calling something related to it out. For example, I will always support the Canadian armed forces. However, i will call out the times or they've mistreated women or innocent people in other countries.

[bolt]

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

[moosehead]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

Absolutely not.

I believe there is a bit too much emotion and anger while making this response. Supporting Israel doesn't mean those things. You can still support something while calling something related to it out. For example, I will always support the Canadian armed forces. However, i will call out the times or they've mistreated women or innocent people in other countries.

 

I support Israel right to exist within a 2 state solution. 

 

I do not support Israel with its current oppression / occupation of palestinian land/homes. 

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

I support Israel right to exist within a 2 state solution. 

 

I do not support Israel with its current oppression / occupation of palestinian land/homes. 

That's exactly my point dude

[moosehead]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

That's exactly my point dude

 

Yes, many Israeli's just want peace and are willing to negotiate / comprise.    We just need to get moderate Israeli's working with moderate palestinians to negotiate a peaceful compromise.  Both parties will need to give and take. 

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, moosehead said:

I support Israel right to exist within a 2 state solution. 

 

I do not support Israel with its current oppression / occupation of palestinian land/homes. 

 

I implore you to scroll back to my response to bolt. I sense the same frustration but on the other side. Just replace what I said about Hamas with the current oppressive Israeli government and Palestine with the actual Israeli population that's suffering as a result. It's exactly the same thing that I can say for that side as I can Hamas and Palestine.

 

That's why this whole thing sucks.

[Warhippy]

25 minutes ago, bolt said:

So anyone who now supports Israel is a lazy racist and we can just ignore the rise of anti-semitism? Is negotiating a peaceful end with Hamas terrorists even possible?

 

 

 

 

 

That is absolutely not what that poster said.

 

This is the most absurd type of jumping to conclusions.

 

People can disagree with the way a government behaves and acts without disagreeing with the people in the nation.  You can disagree with Israeli policy and still support the people.  You can still make these comments without being or acting or ignoring the rise of anti semitism.

 

For the love of all the gods, not everyone with a differing opinion supports all the bad stuff or is an enemy

 

As for negotiating with Hamas.  how about Israel?  WHo promised numerous, like absolutely numerous times to stop encroaching and settling only to days later bulldoze and establish new settlements.  Stop pretending only one side is at fault here when both the Israeli expansionist policy and the policy of hamas to sow terror and threats are wrong and have both lied to the other side

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, moosehead said:

 

Yes, many Israeli's just want peace and are willing to negotiate / comprise.    We just need to get moderate Israeli's working with moderate palestinians to negotiate a peaceful compromise.  Both parties will need to give and take. 

And what is to be done with HAMAS? And who is responsible for doing what needs to be done? 

[Lemon Face]

44 minutes ago, bolt said:

https://www.reuters.com/world/putin-israeli-ground-operation-gaza-will-result-civilian-losses-2023-10-13/

As you can see Palestinian are not in charge of anything.

35 minutes ago, Alflives said:

And what is to be done with HAMAS? And who is responsible for doing what needs to be done? 

Let West Bank deal With Hammas

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, bolt said:

So anyone who now supports Israel is a lazy racist and we can just ignore the rise of anti-semitism? Is negotiating a peaceful end with Hamas terrorists even possible?

 

 

 

 

 

You never negotiate with terrorists. Hamas must be destroyed. Until that happens there will never be a peace deal. 

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

We need to stay positive and hope  / demand a peaceful resolution - sooner the better.

I too just want to see peace and no more human suffering in this region. 80  years is ridiculous.  Time to fix this situation. 

How do you propose a peace deal can be made after 75 years when a terrorist organization is in charge of one side?

Edited October 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Warhippy]

21 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

You never negotiate with terrorists. Hamas must be destroyed. Until that happens there will never be a peace deal. 

How do you propose a peace deal can be made after 75 years when a terrorist organization is in charge of one side?

How do you propose a peace deal can be made after 75 years when the organization in power of the area continues to bulldoze homes to move in their own people, and annex land after having already successfully cut off the other side from access to water electricity or free travel?

 

The pendulum swings both ways and neither one of these parties is innocent 

Edited October 14, 2023 by Warhippy

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

3 hours ago, Darius said:

Your posts are always well thought out and interesting because they dont look at the issue in isolation - the whole region has a complicated history that needs to be considered.

 

Since you bring up the Kurds -Id be interested in hearing your opinion on the the Kurds.  A stateless people that have been massacred, displaced, and treated horribly by the countries that have taken control of their lands.  

 

There are many similarities between the Kurds and the Palestinians imho - there are differences of course.  The primary difference imho is the Palestinians are being used in a geopolitical tug of war to keep the region destabilized.  The state sponsors of the extremists/Hamas want to manipulate the stability in the region so it is in their interest to keep the Palestinians in a perpetual state of conflict.  Afterall, what was Hamas' (and their sponsors) motivation in what they did and how did it serve their populace?  Surely they knew the Israelis would follow with their decades long precedent and  respond with overwhelming force and this would only perpetuate the issue. This does not (obviously) absolve Israel's role in the matter - nor its sponsors who push for hegemony in the region.  So while Turkey and other Islamic nations call out the Israelis some of them have a significant Kurdish population that they have treated - and continue to treat-horribly.  I am trying to wrap my head around this.

 

 

I posted earlier in the thread a few lines from an anti - racist song by a band called TISM from the 90's

 

" The Irish hate the Irish, and it's Arab versus Jew 

Your'e cactus if you Kudish, and by Christ I'm sick of you "

 

This reflects the persecution the Kurds have suffered from Iran, Iraq, Turkey.

Incidents such as the Halabja massacre in 1988.

 

The west/ America has betrayed so many times 

 

https://theintercept.com/2019/10/07/kurds-syria-turkey-trump-betrayal/

 

The hypocrisy of human beings shouldn't surprise someone with the knowledge/ insight you have shown in this thread.

 

[Junkyard Dog]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

How do you propose a peace deal can be made after 75 years when the organization in power of the area continues to bulldoze homes to move in their own people, and annex land after having already successfully cut off the other side from access to water electricity or free travel?

 

The pendulum swings both ways and neither one of these parties is innocent 

 

Hamas' attack definitely nullified any chance of peace between not just Palestine/Israel but Israel and other ME factions which may have been their aim. Saudi and Israel were close to a deal of normalization which is sure but dead. 

 

Israel is now united in hate and are gonna be seeing red. Reservists who previously were acting in protest, skipping training sessions, now coming back in droves. Israelis who were once sympathetic towards Palestine now no longer. Bloody vengeance is now on all of their minds. What they do now may top what has come before. It could in turn could unite other ME factions against them in hate and war if a worst case scenario occurs. 

[Calamity K]

1 hour ago, moosehead said:

 

Quite likely intellectually lazy and probably racist yes......      

It means they  support Apartheid, Ethnic cleansing , occupations, and oppression.

 

Yes , you are correct.   I believe all humans are equal. 

So true. Righteous professors and deep thinkers must always differ from the lazy commoner. Quite fascinating how that works. But then again, there's no point in being a professor or deep thinker if you agree with them, right? So lucky to have a wealth of these aristocrats.