Ilunga Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 @Canuck Surfer Even more information in regards to the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67307858 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 I also have challenged Israeli supporters; * To police their own abusers and racial attacks, particularly in occupied zones. * Example religious and RW extremists rampaging through Muslim E Jerusalem districts most ethnic holidays. Often supported by the IDF. * To repeal, even arrest & bankrupt those claiming land by making it impossible for Palestinians to live there. Sometimes free, sometimes pennies on the dollar. * I do support the ''concept'' of a security zone, as terrorist attacks routinely occur. * This does not mean claim and take security zones as your own. * But have border zones & inspections only because they are required. * If anything moral compass says the bar for what and how you police in these areas has to be higher. * Remove the shoot first allowance against rocks, and mob protests. * Provide inquisitions & accountability for events like youth & reporters being attacked or killed. * Be public, and transparent about accountability. Which would allow Israel to ask Palestinians to stop rock attacks, and their own violence. But as above; Israel to take steps first. In terms of the war in Gaza. * I called for an increased siege, restraint, not the all out attack on Gaza. * At least until Israel had time to allow Hamas to return hostages. * I was always against bunker busting bombs that brought apartment blocks down. * Wjich disgusted me. * Appreciated that world protests brought the temperature where Israel thought they could not do that extensively. * Attrition & death is now 1/10th aprox what it was the 1st three months of the war. * Cough, except it is starting in Lebanon. My point is if you are an Israeli supporter? Tell Bibi these things are not acceptable, I have challenged many here in this thread on this topic. Just like I challenge Palestinian supporters to come to the table with solutions; not hate of Israel. Police Hamas. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 10 minutes ago, Ilunga said: @Canuck Surfer Even more information in regards to the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67307858 19 minutes ago, Ilunga said: @Canuck Surfer More information in regards to the conflict between Israel and Hezbollah https://theconversation.com/israel-has-invaded-lebanon-six-times-in-the-past-50-years-a-timeline-of-events-240157 I'll check these out. That said; I have studied this almost non stop since the beginning of aggression. Look towards actual justice, accountability. Remember; I read for myself. Evaluate the context of both why the information is communicated & its value. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 minute ago, Canuck Surfer said: I'll check these out. That said; I have studied this almost non stop since the beginning of aggression. Look towards actual justice, accountability. Remember; I read for myself. Evaluate the context of both why the information is communicated & its value. You stated I haven't posted about Hezbollah and Hamas' attacking Isreal, I thought I would make up for lost time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: You stated I haven't posted about Hezbollah and Hamas' attacking Isreal, I thought I would make up for lost time. I remain with the same advice I have for everyone. If you are a Palestinian supporter? Ask Palestinians what they can offer for peace. Provide suggestions. Talk with them about accountability for people who (claim to) represent them. Places to go safely if they cannot do this where they are; a legitimate issue. To eliminate their illegal activities, crimes. To make their view of ''Palestine'' one that welcomes neighbours and the world, different cultures & minorities among their residents. If you are an Israeli supporter; ask for improved behaviour from Israel. See numerous posts today. Be proactive. This is different & more useful than debating whose source is more accurate regarding how many Israeli residents have been displaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 8 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: I remain with the same advice I have for everyone. If you are a Palestinian supporter? Ask Palestinians what they can offer for peace. Provide suggestions. Talk with them about accountability for people who (claim to) represent them. Places to go safely if they cannot do this where they are; a legitimate issue. To eliminate their illegal activities, crimes. To make their view of ''Palestine'' one that welcomes neighbours and the world, different cultures & minorities among their residents. If you are an Israeli supporter; ask for improved behaviour from Israel. See numerous posts today. Be proactive. This is different & more useful than debating whose source is more accurate regarding how many Israeli residents have been displaced. Again, for the umpteenth time, I am a supporter of all human beings. All 8 billion of my fellow human beings are my brothers and sisters. Again, we should all treat each other with dignity, respect and compassion. It costs nothing to be polite and respectful. You make the world a better place by simple acts of kindness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Yes, It is …. An historic opportunity. Or the threat will always be held by the regime of Iran. Get rid of the threat of Nuclear arms used by a regime. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 6 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: Well; you could? First I don't have a twitter account. I might cut and paste an occasional Twitter post from the Ukraine thread that seems to have cross value. 2knd; I believe toddlers and pets are among many victims in Gaza. MANY victims. Israel is not following how I would wish this conflict to process either. 3rd, and this is important; I make a large # of posts to educate about views. Views, OFTEN not my own, which I believe are important because solutions will not occur without more views being considered. I present my own views for people to consider, usually editorials. You'll see one about twenty minutes ago. You mention the Fog of War, credible proof of an incident? And bias... Unless you were in the war room managing all the factors involved in the decision. You won't ever know with certainty. I personally believe many of the reasons the pager attack has such varied reporting? Is Israel probably spun the information based on how it was reacted to around the world. As did protest groups. I personally was very surprised it occurred. I still conclude all reporting and even opinions formed on it is biased. I do believe you may have missed the point I was attempting to convey here sir. I also think you misunderstand where the statement may be directed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said: What are your thoughts on this reporting @Warhippy Dave? This has been the 'official' policy of Hezbollah since Oct 7th. https://english.almanar.com.lb/1993180 If we are discussing pager attack credibility. I chose an article from Dec 2023 by a Lebanese TV station. It uses terms like Israel does, ''precision strikes!'' And Arabic one, attack the ''Zionists!'' Is discussing why Hezbollah is involved legitimate? How they present to their press... I have no thoughts on this sir. I am of the belief that Hezbollah, Hamas, various proxy groups in the area truly exist for only one reason and as such due to the harm they cause and collateral damage that naturally arises due to such a myopic focus are better off exterminated. Again, I do believe you completely misunderstood my comments regarding validity of proof and anecdotal statements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAHN Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 (edited) Ok, this is way off base, but, here is what my reality says............ Man, is an animal. It is of the highest intelligence. Which is why we dominate the planet. Animals, always fight for territory. They fight for the land that provides food, females, and safety (Basically wealth) Man has always fought for land. Wars have always happened. Land has always been won and lost for millennia. It has been lost recently, it has been lost hundreds, if not thousands of years ago Man is greedy, and always takes what it needs, where it can, from other men This is reality It is why I do not believe in land claims of any man Yes, you were here last, but who did you take it from? Look at Europe, where the last 2000 years is well documented, and can be proven Land and wealth has exchanged hands, over and over and over But Europe is not the only place Look no further than our own Haida and Salish people Raids, wars, have occurred over many years.... Massacres, rape, slavery, has happened in our own back yard If some one took my land, my home, yes, I would fight to keep it If I lived my life in that house, paid to buy it, then it is mine If a man came and took it, then I have to decide, my course of action Do I fight? Do I accept? Now, if a group of men, took all the house in my community and a group in my community, gathered to fight back and keep our land, then I might be all in That is my decision, and I must accept the result....... I must accept, that I might die Law, is only as good as it is written on, and can and is ignored constantly AKA....Putin's decision to ignore the agreement between Russia, USA and Ukraine As part of the deal for Ukraine to give up their nukes..... Basically, the animal decided to agree for now, and fight later Much as 2 lions, agree for the time being, that one should not fight today, because it is not big enough or both agree, because of another danger..... It is not written, just implied, by them walking away from each other Man, like the lions, is just that.....an animal No Bible, Quran, or any other text, can prove different They are stories, written from that point of view The bottom line............if you are weak, you always stand the chance of things being taken from you Civilized law, is only good until man does not want to be civilized Until man, want to act like the animal he is............. These wars, will continue until someone quits ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and there will always be collateral damage, innocent will always be caught up in the conflict I do not blame Hamas, Hezbollah, the Israeli's, Iranians, or anyone else in that conflict In the end.....they can not help themselves, it is in their nature....they are animals As we are, and as we would prove, if forced into taking arms We would do unthinkable things, to innocent people, all in the name of our cause If you do not believe me...think about our fathers and grand parents, dropping bombs, on German innocents to kill the bad men (animals) Yes war is terrible...but it is hard to stop! And people die. All the people complaining of Israel dropping bombs in Lebanon are not being honest with themselves It is all perspective! Sound familiar? Edited October 10 by JIAHN 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 Stay on topic and refrain from direct personal attacks that do nothing more than derail the thread and go back and forth. A sensitive subject and debate is fine. But if this deteriorates into ongoing insults and focusing on one another, the thread will be shut down for a breather. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 39 minutes ago, -dlc- said: Stay on topic and refrain from direct personal attacks that do nothing more than derail the thread and go back and forth. A sensitive subject and debate is fine. But if this deteriorates into ongoing insults and focusing on one another, the thread will be shut down for a breather. This will be considered universal amongst all posters? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-dlc- Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 3 minutes ago, Warhippy said: This will be considered universal amongst all posters? Yep 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 im calling 2 mins for diving ! he’s probably faking it to get out of the country!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 2 minutes ago, grover said: That's Biden almost getting tough with israel for their genocide in Gaza. Even their UN ambassador (the american ambassador) asked israel to play by the rules of war in Gaza. Gasp!!! How will Joe ever win re-election if he criticizes israel??? Joe isn't running. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 I used to buy fresh fruit & brownies from a guy named Zohan at Wreck Beach in the 90's? Last of the black mystic gypsies... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 3 hours ago, grover said: Hmmm, Not the worst video I've seen. I did notice that they referred to Hamas as a "Radical Militant Group", and not a terrorist organization. Maybe my view of Hamas and Hezbollah not being terrorist organizations is more common outside of the west? Israel just attacked a UN peace keeping post in Lebanon, wounding 2 soldiers. Attacking the UN peace keeping force! What cowardice! I think israel is just trying to get the UN to withdraw their forces so that israel can turn Lebanon into the heap of rubble that Gaza is. Except all the christian communities, of course. Has anyone here on CFF been a peace keeper in Lebanon back in the 80's - 90's? Would love to hear from you. My brother-in-law was in Lebanon in the 80's, and says the Canadian peace keepers were the shyte! Also, with 4 hospitals in northern Gaza forced to evacuate by the israelis, (you know, Hamas uses the hospitals as command centers, and israel will show us the proof once they are able to create it) it makes me wonder what "Never Again" really means. If it's no more genocide ever again, or a more egotistical meaning regarding "Only" the Jewish people? IMHAO the view of those people as terrorists is from the free world. It’s the part of the world controlled by crazies that sees them otherwise. So we have a free world (civilized) vs the crazies and terrorists (barbarism) Alf is thankful his spaceship crashed here and not there. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 10 Share Posted October 10 7 hours ago, JIAHN said: Ok, this is way off base, but, here is what my reality says............ Man, is an animal. It is of the highest intelligence. Which is why we dominate the planet. Animals, always fight for territory. They fight for the land that provides food, females, and safety (Basically wealth) Man has always fought for land. Wars have always happened. Land has always been won and lost for millennia. It has been lost recently, it has been lost hundreds, if not thousands of years ago Man is greedy, and always takes what it needs, where it can, from other men This is reality It is why I do not believe in land claims of any man Yes, you were here last, but who did you take it from? Look at Europe, where the last 2000 years is well documented, and can be proven Land and wealth has exchanged hands, over and over and over But Europe is not the only place Look no further than our own Haida and Salish people Raids, wars, have occurred over many years.... Massacres, rape, slavery, has happened in our own back yard If some one took my land, my home, yes, I would fight to keep it If I lived my life in that house, paid to buy it, then it is mine If a man came and took it, then I have to decide, my course of action Do I fight? Do I accept? Now, if a group of men, took all the house in my community and a group in my community, gathered to fight back and keep our land, then I might be all in That is my decision, and I must accept the result....... I must accept, that I might die Law, is only as good as it is written on, and can and is ignored constantly AKA....Putin's decision to ignore the agreement between Russia, USA and Ukraine As part of the deal for Ukraine to give up their nukes..... Basically, the animal decided to agree for now, and fight later Much as 2 lions, agree for the time being, that one should not fight today, because it is not big enough or both agree, because of another danger..... It is not written, just implied, by them walking away from each other Man, like the lions, is just that.....an animal No Bible, Quran, or any other text, can prove different They are stories, written from that point of view The bottom line............if you are weak, you always stand the chance of things being taken from you Civilized law, is only good until man does not want to be civilized Until man, want to act like the animal he is............. These wars, will continue until someone quits ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and there will always be collateral damage, innocent will always be caught up in the conflict I do not blame Hamas, Hezbollah, the Israeli's, Iranians, or anyone else in that conflict In the end.....they can not help themselves, it is in their nature....they are animals As we are, and as we would prove, if forced into taking arms We would do unthinkable things, to innocent people, all in the name of our cause If you do not believe me...think about our fathers and grand parents, dropping bombs, on German innocents to kill the bad men (animals) Yes war is terrible...but it is hard to stop! And people die. All the people complaining of Israel dropping bombs in Lebanon are not being honest with themselves It is all perspective! Sound familiar? All this is true however after WW2, we, the supposedly civilised nations introduced a rules based world order. A set of rules for both war and humanitarian standards. The stronger nations would stand up for the weaker. As I have stated before the guy who was the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg war trials, Ben Ferenc, was instrumental in setting up the ICC, the International Criminal Court. It is at this court we should be able to hold people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity to account. These " rules " seem to be applied selectively. It is conflicts like this in Gaza that are eroding nations in the Global South and Africa, respect for our supposed rules based world order. Or their respect that we apply these rules to everyone without fear or favour. Our, the West's, credibility is being questioned, and rightfully so. And as this Time article points out, it's not just the global south and Africa. European nations are concerned as well. https://time.com/6330746/global-south-ukraine-israel-gaza/ Comparing the bombing of Germany to what is happening in Lebanon is not an apt analogy. You are talking about the most evil regime this world has ever seen. Even then, as I have pointed out Arthur " bomber " Harris's tactic of bombing Germany cities was controversial, many of his fellow allied leaders disagreed with the tactic. Bottom line brother, it's not acceptable to kill women and children in any circumstances. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 CBN News = Israeli source Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JIAHN Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 54 minutes ago, Ilunga said: All this is true however after WW2, we, the supposedly civilised nations introduced a rules based world order. A set of rules for both war and humanitarian standards. The stronger nations would stand up for the weaker. As I have stated before the guy who was the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg war trials, Ben Ferenc, was instrumental in setting up the ICC, the International Criminal Court. It is at this court we should be able to hold people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity to account. These " rules " seem to be applied selectively. It is conflicts like this in Gaza that are eroding nations in the Global South and Africa, respect for our supposed rules based world order. Or their respect that we apply these rules to everyone without fear or favour. Our, the West's, credibility is being questioned, and rightfully so. And as this Time article points out, it's not just the global south and Africa. European nations are concerned as well. https://time.com/6330746/global-south-ukraine-israel-gaza/ Comparing the bombing of Germany to what is happening in Lebanon is not an apt analogy. You are talking about the most evil regime this world has ever seen. Even then, as I have pointed out Arthur " bomber " Harris's tactic of bombing Germany cities was controversial, many of his fellow allied leaders disagreed with the tactic. Bottom line brother, it's not acceptable to kill women and children in any circumstances. @Ilunga Ahhh, Man, I wish you were right...... But these agreements are worth less than the paper they are written on. It is not that I disagree with you and in a perfect world, where everyone respects their fellow man, that would be great, but it is not perfect, and man is not either You are a decent, kind man, and in your hour of desperation, I could not trust you to abide by your own code. I understand you may think so, but "IF" pushed far enough, you may change direction And you are one of the solid ones.....now imagine people of less integrity.....people that may never been given proper direction You may indeed be that one in a million....but most people have a breaking point Where they will pull the trigger to protect their own....... I love you man, but I think you are naive on this..... Never mind what was agreed to 75 years ago.......people can not remember past yesterday 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 (edited) 31 minutes ago, JIAHN said: @Ilunga Ahhh, Man, I wish you were right...... But these agreements are worth less than the paper they are written on. It is not that I disagree with you and in a perfect world, where everyone respects their fellow man, that would be great, but it is not perfect, and man is not either You are a decent, kind man, and in your hour of desperation, I could not trust you to abide by your own code. I understand you may think so, but "IF" pushed far enough, you may change direction And you are one of the solid ones.....now imagine people of less integrity.....people that may never been given proper direction You may indeed be that one in a million....but most people have a breaking point Where they will pull the trigger to protect their own....... I love you man, but I think you are naive on this..... Never mind what was agreed to 75 years ago.......people can not remember past yesterday I am unclear on what the Wests responsibility is in modern Africa to end conflicts there. Where are the blue helmets? Edited October 11 by Bob Long 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 54 minutes ago, Ilunga said: As I have stated before the guy who was the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg war trials, Ben Ferenc, was instrumental in setting up the ICC, the International Criminal Court. It is at this court we should be able to hold people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity to account. These " rules " seem to be applied selectively. An agreed problem; institutions like the ICC and more broadly the UN do not have enforcement power. Do get caught up in politics of sides, but that is not the main point of this suggestion I am making. The ICC has warrants for people on both sides of this conflict & Vladimir Putin. Its not had much impact. Nor do they have means to mitigate how an opposing side of the conflict can legally attack the other. As you say, 'both' sides are using human shields? There is also no way to hide the issue that this conflict is in a very small, intensely dense level of habitation that has to be navigated to get to the opposing party. It is literally impossible to have this conflict without crimes being committed. So ultimately there will have to be a level of blame dropped? A level of compromise added. Or status quo will continue as the ability to completely eliminate the enemy is fundamentally not available. I hypothesized Israel does this every 12 to twenty years? To reduce military build up by militant groups. Which is be definition, still premeditated, a crime? Whenever a Hamas or Hezbollah, in the past the PLO or surrounding nations, gave them an excuse. Yet Hamas etc. also premeditated in their attacks, is a provision of excuse for Israel... Isn't it also a reality that if you stop one side from breaking the law, but not the other? While it has seriously diminished the UN's capacity in smaller conflicts like these. Veto power at the security council level has IMO contributed to nuclear war being avoided. The side harnessed will probably or probably have been destroyed! We can talk about who is breaking the law more? Is to blame... The ''truth'' in your words. Or decide to discuss what compromise is possible, required? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 11 minutes ago, JIAHN said: @Ilunga Ahhh, Man, I wish you were right...... But these agreements are worth less than the paper they are written on. It is not that I disagree with you and in a perfect world, where everyone respects their fellow man, that would be great, but it is not perfect, and man is not either You are a decent, kind man, and in your hour of desperation, I could not trust you to abide by your own code. I understand you may think so, but "IF" pushed far enough, you may change direction And you are one of the solid ones.....now imagine people of less integrity.....people that may never been given proper direction You may indeed be that one in a million....but most people have a breaking point Where they will pull the trigger to protect their own....... I love you man, but I think you are naive on this..... Never mind what was agreed to 75 years ago.......people can not remember past yesterday All I can relate is my past history. I stood up to a friend who was hitting his girlfriend. I was told to mind my business and copped a few punches to the head. I am in my darkest hour and yet I hold no malice in my heart towards the person, my ex, who has caused me so much pain. Pain you would not believe. I would never hurt a woman or a child under any circumstances. If I was forced to physically intervene to restrain a woman or child from severely hurting or killing another person, including someone I love, I have the knowledge and skills to do this in a way that will inflict minimal harm on the person. Admittedly this would be harder to do on a younger adult that is currently training and fighting like my avatar, however I have been in life and death situations both in street fights and sport. Experience counts. Anyway I hope my beliefs are never tested, in another words I hope anyone I love isn't threatened to the point that I am faced with the choice of actually having to kill anyone, man, woman or child. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: Comparing the bombing of Germany to what is happening in Lebanon is not an apt analogy. I disagree with this. Like Nagasaki & Hiroshima, a million plus dead when you add Dresden etc.. Were clearly war crimes, and examples of punishing civilians to get to ''the bad guys?'' A point you have made relative to Israel killing civilians in Gaza. While in principle, I agree with quoting Nuremberg lawyers assessment of current conflicts. As you have also done. 100% agree in principle! 1 hour ago, Ilunga said: As I have stated before the guy who was the chief prosecutor at the Nuremberg war trials, Ben Ferenc, was instrumental in setting up the ICC, the International Criminal Court. It is at this court we should be able to hold people who commit war crimes and crimes against humanity to account. In practice, Nuremberg almost exclusively punished those on the losing outcome of the war. As above, in practice the ICC is pretty toothless. Except when a special ops crew can nab an African strongman in exile, or a war was decided in the former Yugoslavia. Those accountabilities, in fact, were established after the fact. Has not stopped these same conflicts from recurring, or threatening to, with new personalities. There have not been a great # of conflicts resolved by establishing the ICC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 11 Share Posted October 11 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I am unclear on what the Wests responsibility is in modern Africa to end conflicts there. Where are the blue helmets? If the west has a responsibility to support the Ukrainians against russian aggression, don't we have just as an important responsibility to support the the Sudanese people who are facing one of the world's biggest Humanitarian crisise ? https://www.rescue.org/article/crisis-sudan-what-happening-and-how-help Or do we limit our " aid ", help, to military conflicts. We can build guns, bombs, tanks, shells etc. Why can't we provide humanitarian aid to those who so desperately need it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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