Hamas attacking Israel

[Ilunga]

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Just read backwards.

 

I suggest to people who support Israel? To act more responsibly and within the law. The expectations of the world? Also to be the leader in compromises to a solution. 

 

Just like I challenge you? I challenged your nemesis. Many times over the course of this thread.  At one point, asked if he and his family could approach their politicians. I believe on that occasion about putting pressure regarding settlements, abuse of Palestinians in security (occupied) zones. Roman was pretty gracious; paraphrasing cuz I do not remember exact wording; he could not offer a commitment? But respected my opinion & listened to it. I have asked about Ben Gvir and this ilk of opinion much earlier. His reply was most Israelis had no desire to occupy or take control of Gaza. Nor was he a fan of Netanyahu. That said, his words reflected bipartisan (my choice of word) unity in a time of war, not accepting threats, presenting strength. 

 

More specific as you are asking me; I hate Ben Gvir, Yoav Galant. I want neither opportunistic occupation as per Gvir. Nor excessively heavy handed ''defense'' as per Galant; examples being shoot first policies with rock throwing teen protestors, controversial deaths of reporters or aid workers. Even pre-war; but now including the volume of death including collateral damage in the first months of the war.  Stunts like Gvir at the Al Aqsa. Its not that I believe Jewish people should be restricted access to the West Wall; I do not. There are also agreements made a senior minister should not intentionally breach. Galant specifically, has philosophy about Zionist sovereignty that is almost as dangerous as Islamic extremist views.

 

Where I split the difference?  Believe Hamas, Hezbollah are more dangerous! They have controls which they have primarily on militancy. Generations of grooming within their society. Networks of corruption, conntrol. Teaching ideologically 'disciplined' behaviours. Which may take a generation to un-groom? Israel has a constitution that disavows those things / Hamas a charter that instills them. Israel a democracy who can vote it's bastards out.

 

Luckily (?); Israel is also wealthy and can shoot down most terrorist rockets. Its defense strength can tip the balance of casualties when no one else gives a sh!t who dies.

 

So I answered your question.  This offers segway to a next obvious topic. 

 

Why does Hamas start this war Oct 7 it has no hope of winning?

 

 

 

Should Palestinians not reject being lead directly in to death and destruction... 

 

(((   Bear in mind I advocate Israel offering them a path towards peace! That Islamic Jihad by definition has never advocated peace or coexistence!  ))))

 

What responsibility do Palestinians have for buying in to such attacks; alternately also seek peaceful coexistence? 

 

I don't have a " nemesis " brother. 

 

Why do you hate people mate ?

Hate is such a wasted emotion. 

If anything hate the injustice those people represent. 

 

It was a simple question.

You label Hamas leaders as radical militants, because both their beliefs, and how they act on them warrant that label. 

 

Well do you believe the same criteria can be applied to the religious extremists, that virtually control the Isreali government.

And remember these guys were elected in a supposed democracy.

 

 

You have to plug in your email address to read this article.

It is a long read detailing how extremist settlers not only go unpunished for their actions in the west bank, but have also taken over the Isreali government. 

 

 

" How Extremist Settlers Took Over Israel "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/magazine/israel-west-bank-settler-violence-impunity.html

 

 

And remember, the New York Times has been accused of being Pro-Israel. 

 

You bring up all these other Muslim groups in the middle east that have nothing to do with this conflict.

 

Bottom line CS, anyone who doesn't treat others with dignity, respect and compassion is not behaving in a way I would condone.

 

If you are impacting others in a negative manner, actions, words, whatever, then others have the right to step and and tell you to stop doing this.

And doing whatever it takes, within reason, staying within the bounds of decent human behaviour themselves, to stop them.

Edited October 11 by Ilunga

[Optimist Prime]

Yom Tov to all who celebrate, may you have an easy fast. 

[RomanPer]

58 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

Yom Tov to all who celebrate, may you have an easy fast. 

Thank you, brother!

[Canuck Surfer]

20 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Well do you believe the same criteria can be applied to the religious extremists, that virtually control the Isreali government.

And remember these guys were elected in a supposed democracy.

 

Question answered already;

 

9 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

More specific as you are asking me; I hate Ben Gvir, Yoav Galant. I want neither opportunistic occupation as per Gvir. Nor excessively heavy handed ''defense'' as per Galant; examples being shoot first policies with rock throwing teen protestors, controversial deaths of reporters or aid workers. Even pre-war; but now including the volume of death including collateral damage in the first months of the war.  Stunts like Gvir at the Al Aqsa. Its not that I believe Jewish people should be restricted access to the West Wall; I do not. There are also agreements made a senior minister should not intentionally breach. Galant specifically, has philosophy about Zionist sovereignty that is almost as dangerous as Islamic extremist views.

 

These are not the extent of radicals in the govt., or groups in Israel.  Unfortunately in the minority govt., they have the swing vote & use it extensively to sway balance  of power.  I am not attune enough how present party policy exists in Israel, for items like justice reform and platforms of peace. Reform, not as Bibi wants it suggesting the court restricts RW activities & wants more power. Like many RW govt. around the world, see Project 2025, are trying to legislate. I want the opposite.

 

Will Bibi change his own approach?  I doubt it. However Macron got slaughtered in the last election. Yet so many minority groups absolved their primary platforms, to the greater good of defeating marine Le Pen & the National Front (Rally) movement. War, with many against it, and also against RW both corruption & abuses?  My hope peace policy & new coalitions will rally against Likud.  

 

32 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

Why do you hate people mate ?

 

I don't hate; but I do evaluate. Plan!

 

I also measure, as in decide what options may work regardless of how I feel about them. Develop the best platform I can with it; not unlike politics but it's just myself.

 

Now is the right time for policy change in Israel.  They can have normalization with much of the Arab world if they can ''settle,'' honest apologies for my distinctly different meaning of this word, Palestinian issues. Or be headed in the correct direction. After 80 years, many, not Hamas or Hezbollah, are willing to work with a Jewish state.  After 80 years, the world (see people like Ilunga) want better policy from Israel regarding Palestinians. As do many Israelis.

 

Its also the right time for change for Palestinians.  Many previously bent on the removing Israel have suddenly been disposed to the horrors of war being much worse than 'occupation,' still using an intended use of the word. Many have always put up with Hamas because they had no choice, have always wanted a different way than supporting militancy. There is a movement there as well, including many that used to have jobs in Israel. Imagine if people from around the world were investing in 'Palestine,' and they could have such a job at home instead?   

 

Remember; its widely reported Hamas sprung Oct 7 to disrupt normalization.

 

Its time to start engaging those that do want peace, want a future! Not just protest, or worse, fight. Hugs and handshakes, offers to help are better than flags, and warning salvo's.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

I don't have a " nemesis " brother. 

 

Why do you hate people mate ?

Hate is such a wasted emotion. 

If anything hate the injustice those people represent. 

 

It was a simple question.

You label Hamas leaders as radical militants, because both their beliefs, and how they act on them warrant that label. 

 

Well do you believe the same criteria can be applied to the religious extremists, that virtually control the Isreali government.

And remember these guys were elected in a supposed democracy.

 

 

You have to plug in your email address to read this article.

It is a long read detailing how extremist settlers not only go unpunished for their actions in the west bank, but have also taken over the Isreali government. 

 

 

" How Extremist Settlers Took Over Israel "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/magazine/israel-west-bank-settler-violence-impunity.html

 

 

And remember, the New York Times has been accused of being Pro-Israel. 

 

You bring up all these other Muslim groups in the middle east that have nothing to do with this conflict.

 

Bottom line CS, anyone who doesn't treat others with dignity, respect and compassion is not behaving in a way I would condone.

 

If you are impacting others in a negative manner, actions, words, whatever, then others have the right to step and and tell you to stop doing this.

And doing whatever it takes, within reason, staying within the bounds of decent human behaviour themselves, to stop them.

 

Do you have any doubt that if Israel put it's weapons down today, that hamas, Hezbollah or some other arm of Iran would come in and murder people at will?

 

If the answer is no, I don't see the value in getting into the weeds on who is more or less religious, etc.

 

 

[Ilunga]

24 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Question answered already;

 

 

These are not the extent of radicals in the govt., or groups in Israel.  Unfortunately in the minority govt., they have the swing vote & use it extensively to sway balance  of power.  I am not attune enough how present party policy exists in Israel, for items like justice reform and platforms of peace. Reform, not as Bibi wants it suggesting the court restricts RW activities & wants more power. Like many RW govt. around the world, see Project 2025, are trying to legislate. I want the opposite.

 

Will Bibi change his own approach?  I doubt it. However Macron got slaughtered in the last election. Yet so many minority groups absolved their primary platforms, to the greater good of defeating marine Le Pen & the National Front (Rally) movement. War, with many against it, and also against RW both corruption & abuses?  My hope peace policy & new coalitions will rally against Likud.  

 

 

I don't hate; but I do evaluate. Plan!

 

I also measure, as in decide what options may work regardless of how I feel about them. Develop the best platform I can with it; not unlike politics but it's just myself.

 

Now is the right time for policy change in Israel.  They can have normalization with much of the Arab world if they can ''settle,'' honest apologies for my distinctly different meaning of this word, Palestinian issues. Or be headed in the correct direction. After 80 years, many, not Hamas or Hezbollah, are willing to work with a Jewish state.  After 80 years, the world (see people like Ilunga) want better policy from Israel regarding Palestinians. As do many Israelis.

 

Its also the right time for change for Palestinians.  Many previously bent on the removing Israel have suddenly been disposed to the horrors of war being much worse than 'occupation,' still using an intended use of the word. Many have always put up with Hamas because they had no choice, have always wanted a different way than supporting militancy. There is a movement there as well, including many that used to have jobs in Israel. Imagine if people from around the world were investing in 'Palestine,' and they could have such a job at home instead?   

 

Remember; its widely reported Hamas sprung Oct 7 to disrupt normalization.

 

Its time to start engaging those that do want peace, want a future! Not just protest, or worse, fight. Hugs and handshakes, offers to help are better than flags, and warning salvo's.

 

Maybe if Israel didn't back Hamas when they formed, instead they helped the Palestinians, built schools, made sure the curriculum didn't preach hate.

Showed compassion to the Palestinian people instead of trying to play off Hamas against the PLO  in order to prevent the formation of a Palestinian.

Maybe then, we wouldn't be where we are now. 

Maybe Hamas wouldn't have been able to build their support. 

 

You use extreme words like my nemesis.

Was it, sworn enemy in relation to the Bin Salman's ?

Hate Smotrich and Ben Gvir. 

 

I hate and despise the injustice these people not only represent, but cause. 

Not the people themselves. 

 

Engage those who want peace ?

 

Who promotes people like people who espouse peace, work towards peace, in this thread ?

I do brother.

By posting articles and videos about Palestinians who work together to help each, befriend each other, and work for peace.

 

I have been labelled as a pacifist amongst other things for doing this.

The irony. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, Ilunga said:

 

I don't have a " nemesis " brother. 

 

Why do you hate people mate ?

Hate is such a wasted emotion. 

If anything hate the injustice those people represent. 

 

It was a simple question.

You label Hamas leaders as radical militants, because both their beliefs, and how they act on them warrant that label. 

 

Well do you believe the same criteria can be applied to the religious extremists, that virtually control the Isreali government.

And remember these guys were elected in a supposed democracy.

 

 

You have to plug in your email address to read this article.

It is a long read detailing how extremist settlers not only go unpunished for their actions in the west bank, but have also taken over the Isreali government. 

 

 

" How Extremist Settlers Took Over Israel "

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/16/magazine/israel-west-bank-settler-violence-impunity.html

 

 

And remember, the New York Times has been accused of being Pro-Israel. 

 

You bring up all these other Muslim groups in the middle east that have nothing to do with this conflict.

 

Bottom line CS, anyone who doesn't treat others with dignity, respect and compassion is not behaving in a way I would condone.

 

If you are impacting others in a negative manner, actions, words, whatever, then others have the right to step and and tell you to stop doing this.

And doing whatever it takes, within reason, staying within the bounds of decent human behaviour themselves, to stop them.

You know who hates people, especially us? The crazies including Hamas and Hesbola and the whack jobs controlling Iran and other countries. These people want us all dead. They are the ones who hate. They are a cancer that must be cut out from the human race. 
 

[Ilunga]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Do you have any doubt that if Israel put it's weapons down today, that hamas, Hezbollah or some other arm of Iran would come in and murder people at will?

 

If the answer is no, I don't see the value in getting into the weeds on who is more or less religious, etc.

 

 

 

I have no doubt Hamas' would. 

Not sure about Hezbollah or Iran.

With retaliation from the US a certainty, I am not sure what Iran would do.

Reasonably certain if the Iranians wiped Isreal off the map, the US would do the same to Iran.

The Iranians know this as well. 

 

I thought you were anti religious full stop.

Me, I believe in seperation of church and state.

I also believe that people have the right to believe whatever they want, so long as those beliefs don't cause them to shit on others.

 

This is my religious weekend.

It Bathurst weekend !

Back in the day, the cars that won on Sunday, you could go and buy on Monday.

In 1972, the fastest four door car in the world, the Falcon phase 3 GTHO, cost a bit over $5k with a QC motor.

One sold for just over a million in 2021.

The last one went for the " bargain " price of $362,000.

 

A phase 4, of which only 4 race cars were built, they canned the production run of 300 because politicians kicked up about cars that could pull 160MPH were killing people, went for close to $2 million.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-falcon-gtho-phase-iv-sets-new-price-record-for-an-australian-made-road-car/

 

I had an XY Falcon GT which I built up to HO spec, the HO stands for Handling Options.

Stiffer Suspension, tweaks to the Cleveland 351, 15 inch Daytona wheels which gave you a better range of tyres.

The rarest, and hardest part to acquire now, is the original rev limiter.

Most people took them off and threw them away. 

 

I curse myself for selling it when I became a ski-bum.

 

Anyway, happy Bathurst, and may your motor always rev hard.

[Ilunga]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

You know who hates people, especially us? The crazies including Hamas and Hesbola and the whack jobs controlling Iran and other countries. These people want us all dead. They are the ones who hate. They are a cancer that must be cut out from the human race. 
 

 

Then you be like them Alf, and hate them right back.

Because they have a special hate for you, according to you.

 

Me, I gave up on hate decades ago.

Hate hurts the person who feels that emotion.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Then you be like them Alf, and hate them right back.

Because they have a special hate for you, according to you.

 

Me, I gave up on hate decades ago.

Hate hurts the person who feels that emotion.

It’s not hate. It’s good sense. When there’s an enemy whose only goal is to kill us (it’s in their doctrine) then it’s impossible to reason with them. The only answer is to wipe them out. It’s what must be done. 

[Ilunga]

10 hours ago, Boudrias said:

War limits humanity. Suggesting the bombing of Dresden and using the nukes on Japan as war crimes is a luxary that those facing the death of their people has no basis in reality. What is the limit of innocence in war? The bombing campaign in Europe in WW2 was a calculated effort to destroy the German capability to produce weapons. Civilian populations suffered but they were part of that war effort. Hitler was working on a nuke. What if? Before the nukes were used on Japan the Americans had lived thru Saipan, Guam, Iwo Jima and Okinawa. 10's of thousands dead and wounded. Landing on Japan had 100's of thousands at risk. I don't hold the Americans at fault for using that weapon. 

 

Crafting a idea that Israel is the aggressor in the ME is a stretch. Israel does not have the luxury of deciding who is for or against them. The vast majority of Arabs living on their borders are against the existance of Israel. Their neighbors are mostly ruled by despots who cloak their depravity with hatred and envy of Israel. Israel is an existential threat to their power and even existance. It is not Israel's responsibility to sort through this mess and make things right. Israel does not have the luxury to turn the other cheek. They turn the other cheek and October 7th would be repeated across all of Israel. How is Israel to have any faith in what their so called allies would do to defend them if they did turn the other cheek. None! In Canada's case we saw what would happen at the Court House in Vancouver. Canada turned the other cheek and was laughed at around the world.  

 

By today's international law, and any moral standard full stop, the firebombing of Dresden was a war crime. 

 

There were very few strategic targets.

The war was nearly over, a few months later the war was ended.

One of the most beautiful cities in Europe was destroyed.

It was pure revenge for the fire bombing of Coventry. 

Most of the victims, who were killed, burned alive.

They were women, children and the elderly. 

 

 

https://www.britannica.com/event/bombing-of-Dresden

 

 

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

I have no doubt Hamas' would. 

Not sure about Hezbollah or Iran.

With retaliation from the US a certainty, I am not sure what Iran would do.

Reasonably certain if the Iranians wiped Isreal off the map, the US would do the same to Iran.

The Iranians know this as well. 

 

I thought you were anti religious full stop.

Me, I believe in seperation of church and state.

I also believe that people have the right to believe whatever they want, so long as those beliefs don't cause them to shit on others.

 

This is my religious weekend.

It Bathurst weekend !

Back in the day, the cars that won on Sunday, you could go and buy on Monday.

In 1972, the fastest four door car in the world, the Falcon phase 3 GTHO, cost a bit over $5k with a QC motor.

One sold for just over a million in 2021.

The last one went for the " bargain " price of $362,000.

 

A phase 4, of which only 4 race cars were built, they canned the production run of 300 because politicians kicked up about cars that could pull 160MPH were killing people, went for close to $2 million.

 

https://www.drive.com.au/news/ford-falcon-gtho-phase-iv-sets-new-price-record-for-an-australian-made-road-car/

 

I had an XY Falcon GT which I built up to HO spec, the HO stands for Handling Options.

Stiffer Suspension, tweaks to the Cleveland 351, 15 inch Daytona wheels which gave you a better range of tyres.

The rarest, and hardest part to acquire now, is the original rev limiter.

Most people took them off and threw them away. 

 

I curse myself for selling it when I became a ski-bum.

 

Anyway, happy Bathurst, and may your motor always rev hard.

 

I am anti organized religion, except maybe Shinto.

 

I just think it's quite clear Israel, regardless of current leadership, faces grave (literally) threats. 

 

I don't see them anything like the religious nutbars trying to wipe them out.

 

[Ilunga]

13 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s not hate. It’s good sense. When there’s an enemy whose only goal is to kill us (it’s in their doctrine) then it’s impossible to reason with them. The only answer is to wipe them out. It’s what must be done. 

 

That post espoused hate Alf.

 

They especially hate " us " Alf ?

 

Who is " us " ? 

 

As for wanting to kill us, who has, for the last hundred years, gone to the middle east, used and abused, illegally invaded and exploited the countries there for their oil Alf ?

 

We, the " west " has.

 

Who instigated a coup to overthrow the democratically secular goverment of the Iran Alf ?

The US and the British.

 

Who helped train, and work with,  the Brutal Savak, the secret police that terrorised the Iranian people Alf ?

The Mossad and the CIA. 

 

Want me to continue with how we have historically fucked with the country's in the middle east ?

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

That post espoused hate Alf.

 

They especially hate " us " Alf ?

 

Who is " us " ? 

 

As for wanting to kill us, who has, for the last hundred years, gone to the middle east, used and abused, illegally invaded and exploited the countries there for their oil Alf ?

 

We, the " west " has.

 

Who instigated a coup to overthrow the democratically secular goverment of the Iran Alf ?

The US and the British.

 

Who helped train, and work with,  the Brutal Savak, the secret police that terrorised the Iranian people Alf ?

The Mossad and the CIA. 

 

Want me to continue with how we have historically fucked with the country's in the middle east ?

Those people do “hate” us. They do want us all dead. We don’t need to hate them to know they are evil and must be eliminated. Alf doesn’t hate cancer. But he definitely wants it cut out and eliminated. That’s common sense. 

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I am anti organized religion, except maybe Shinto.

 

I just think it's quite clear Israel, regardless of current leadership, faces grave (literally) threats. 

 

I don't see them anything like the religious nutbars trying to wipe them out.

 

 

How do you feel about this guy and his 

" Gog and Magog war "

https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-820759

 

How do you feel about a religious council that wants to genetically test its population, so it's fits it's definition of what constitutes a member of said population ? 

 

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/26956

 

Me, I believe this is about as racist as it's gets.

Can you imagine if some group in Canada advocated genetically testing the population to identify " Canadians " ? 

 

I know that if that happened here in Aus, people would be up in arms.

 

How do you feel about a country where everyone except for the people who study religion have to serve some time in the army ?

Those religious dudes are given a free pass.   

There is no true seperation of church and state in Isreal. 

 

What cracks me up, is that the people who are so virulently anti religious in the God thread, seem to leave those beliefs behind in this thread.

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

How do you feel about this guy and his 

" Gog and Magog war "

https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-820759

 

How do you feel about a religious council that wants to genetically test its population, so it's fits it's definition of what constitutes a member of said population ? 

 

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/26956

 

Me, I believe this is about as racist as it's gets.

Can you imagine if some group in Canada advocated genetically testing the population to identify " Canadians " ? 

 

I know that if that happened here in Aus, people would be up in arms.

 

How do you feel about a country where everyone except for the people who study religion have to serve some time in the army ?

Those religious dudes are given a free pass.   

There is no true seperation of church and state in Isreal. 

 

What cracks me up, is that the people who are so virulently anti religious in the God thread, seem to leave those beliefs behind in this thread.

 

Don’t people in Sweden need to serve? IMHAO every person in Canada should have to serve too. 

[Bob Long]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

How do you feel about this guy and his 

" Gog and Magog war "

https://www.jpost.com/omg/article-820759

 

How do you feel about a religious council that wants to genetically test its population, so it's fits it's definition of what constitutes a member of said population ? 

 

https://en.idi.org.il/articles/26956

 

Me, I believe this is about as racist as it's gets.

Can you imagine if some group in Canada advocated genetically testing the population to identify " Canadians " ? 

 

I know that if that happened here in Aus, people would be up in arms.

 

How do you feel about a country where everyone except for the people who study religion have to serve some time in the army ?

Those religious dudes are given a free pass.   

There is no true seperation of church and state in Isreal. 

 

What cracks me up, is that the people who are so virulently anti religious in the God thread, seem to leave those beliefs behind in this thread.

 

 

Israel is a democracy, they can remove people like this.

 

Can't remove a cleric. At least not without a pager.

 

There's no hope for women eg to have equal rights in Iran, unless the god boys are removed by force. Israel just needs an election.

 

[Alflives]

34 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

By today's international law, and any moral standard full stop, the firebombing of Dresden was a war crime. 

 

There were very few strategic targets.

The war was nearly over, a few months later the war was ended.

One of the most beautiful cities in Europe was destroyed.

It was pure revenge for the fire bombing of Coventry. 

Most of the victims, who were killed, burned alive.

They were women, children and the elderly. 

 

 

https://www.britannica.com/event/bombing-of-Dresden

 

 

It’s war. It’s not a sport or a game. 

[Ilunga]

12 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Those people do “hate” us. They do want us all dead. We don’t need to hate them to know they are evil and must be eliminated. Alf doesn’t hate cancer. But he definitely wants it cut out and eliminated. That’s common sense. 

 

 

I would be more worried about right wing terrorism if I was you Alf. 

In North America and Europe this is the greatest threat when I last checked.

[Ilunga]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It’s war. It’s not a sport or a game. 

 

So you are cool with  incinerating tens of thousands of women, children and the elderly ?

Destroying a historical, beautiful city ?

All for no significant military gain. 

 

This illustrates you aren't much better that the " crazies " you talk about.

 

Edited October 12 by Ilunga

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

 

I would be more worried about right wing terrorism if I was you Alf. 

In North America and Europe this is the greatest threat when I last checked.

The crazies here don’t want to kill us all. That’s a huge difference. The crazies, who hide behind Islam, in the ME want us dead. It’s their doctrine.

Do the Crazies here believe in 12 virgins in heaven (as a martyr) for killing some of us? 
IMHAO you’re creating a false equivalence. These a very bad people over there who must be eliminated. They are a cancer that must be cut out. Then rebuilding for and re-educating the good people will make a better world for us all. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

So you are cool with  incinerating tens of thousands of women, children and the elderly ?

Destroying a historical, beautiful city ?

All for no significant military gain. 

 

This illustrates you aren't much better that the " crazies " you talk about.

 

Why is that even important to this discussion? It’s a rhetorical question that has no value. 
It’s war. It’s our way of peace and freedom vs the crazies. Alf is on the side of peace and freedom. 

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Israel is a democracy, they can remove people like this.

 

Can't remove a cleric. At least not without a pager.

 

There's no hope for women eg to have equal rights in Iran, unless the god boys are removed by force. Israel just needs an election.

 

 

A failing democracy. 

One that is held to ransom by religious elements.

I posted a New York Times article, long read how Isreali sources stated, the extremist settlers (religious elements) have taken over the government.

 

People within the country, people who think like you Jim, secular Israelis, are stating that Isreal is turning into a religious theocracy. 

 

" Netanyahu's government takes a turn toward theocracy " 

" The Isreali prime ministers new coalition includes members who would enforce religious prohibitions over democratic liberties "

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/netanyahus-government-takes-a-turn-toward-theocracy

 

And you can't remove a cleric in Israel either Jim.

They have considerable power and influence with the Israeli community.

 

 

I am in total agreement with you about the mullahs.

I hope, first for the Iranians peoples sake, then the middle east, that they are removed from the equation as quickly as possible. 

 

The world will be a better place without them.

I would prefer they were shamed and locked up for life.

But whatever it takes.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Ilunga said:

 

A failing democracy. 

One that is held to ransom by religious elements.

I posted a New York Times article, long read how Isreali sources stated, the extremist settlers (religious elements) have taken over the government.

 

People within the country, people who think like you Jim, secular Israelis, are stating that Isreal is turning into a religious theocracy. 

 

" Netanyahu's government takes a turn toward theocracy " 

" The Isreali prime ministers new coalition includes members who would enforce religious prohibitions over democratic liberties "

 

https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/netanyahus-government-takes-a-turn-toward-theocracy

 

And you can't remove a cleric in Israel either Jim.

They have considerable power and influence with the Israeli community.

 

 

I am in total agreement with you about the mullahs.

I hope, first for the Iranians peoples sake, then the middle east, that they are removed from the equation as quickly as possible. 

 

The world will be a better place without them.

I would prefer they were shamed and locked up for life.

But whatever it takes.

And the people of Israel, being a democracy (like the free world) can elect a different government. The good people in the countries controlled by the crazy religious whackos can’t do that. Big difference, no? 

[Ilunga]

19 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The crazies here don’t want to kill us all. That’s a huge difference. The crazies, who hide behind Islam, in the ME want us dead. It’s their doctrine.

Do the Crazies here believe in 12 virgins in heaven (as a martyr) for killing some of us? 
IMHAO you’re creating a false equivalence. These a very bad people over there who must be eliminated. They are a cancer that must be cut out. Then rebuilding for and re-educating the good people will make a better world for us all. 

 

Like I said Alf, the fact of the matter is the greatest threat to your safety in North America, and Europe for that matter, is from right wing terrorists. 

That is a fact.

 

 

I was reading an article that MI6, I think, they stated that they had foiled a lot of plots that were funded by Iran to kill, mostly Iranian activists in Britain.

They were hiring(British)criminal elements to do their dirty work. 

 

You can sleep safe in your bed Alf.