Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 8 minutes ago, Bob Long said: It is, but who has initiated more invasions? If you count the theft of Palestinian land in the west bank and east Jerusalem, it's not even close. Israel has. Every settlement is an invasion and theft of land. Just like in Ukraine. What does both your country, and mine, state about Isreals occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem ? That it is illegal and breaches international law. Tell me Jim, why do many Isrealis themselves state that Isreals treatment of the Palestinians amounts to arpartheid ? Why would they say this if it wasn't true ? I know arpartheid when I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Just now, Ilunga said: If you count the theft of Palestinian land in the west bank and east Jerusalem, it's not even close. Israel has. Every settlement is an invasion and theft of land. Just like in Ukraine. What does both your country, and mine, state about Isreals occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem ? That it is illegal and breaches international law. Tell me Jim, why do many Isrealis themselves state that Isreals treatment of the Palestinians amounts to arpartheid ? Why would they say this if it wasn't true ? I know arpartheid when I see it. Yea I just can't get there with you. Some people want to see colonialism. Some apartied. Some genocide. It's none of those. This conflict is unique and needs less abstract comparisons. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 minute ago, Ilunga said: If you count the theft of Palestinian land in the west bank and east Jerusalem, it's not even close. Israel has. Every settlement is an invasion and theft of land. Just like in Ukraine. What does both your country, and mine, state about Isreals occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem ? That it is illegal and breaches international law. Tell me Jim, why do many Isrealis themselves state that Isreals treatment of the Palestinians amounts to arpartheid ? Why would they say this if it wasn't true ? I know arpartheid when I see it. Again. That’s your opinion. In your opinion it’s apartheid. It’s not though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Yea I just can't get there with you. Some people want to see colonialism. Some apartied. Some genocide. It's none of those. This conflict is unique and needs less abstract comparisons. Politely, please answer my question. I know your opinion. Why would Isrealis and Jews in other countries claim Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? Why would they do this if they didn't believe their was any validity to their claim ? That's leaving out human rights organisations and people from other nationalities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 12 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Politely, please answer my question. I know your opinion. Why would Isrealis and Jews in other countries claim Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? Why would they do this if they didn't believe their was any validity to their claim ? That's leaving out human rights organisations and people from other nationalities. Because people are allowed to have different opinions. People have all kinds of reasons and motivations. We've seen all three descriptions. It can't be all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 6 minutes ago, Alflives said: Again. That’s your opinion. In your opinion it’s apartheid. It’s not though. These Isrealis and Jews don't agree with you. Former head of the Mossad Tamir Pardo https://apnews.com/article/israel-apartheid-palestinians-occupation-c8137c9e7f33c2cba7b0b5ac7fa8d115 Over a thousand Israeli/Jewish scholars in both Isreal and the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/israel-palestine-apartheid-israel-scholars/ Staunch supporters of Isreal and Zionists. Four ex PM's David Ben Gurion Yitzhak Rabin Ehud Barak Ehud Olmert https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, Ilunga said: These Isrealis and Jews don't agree with you. Former head of the Mossad Tamir Pardo https://apnews.com/article/israel-apartheid-palestinians-occupation-c8137c9e7f33c2cba7b0b5ac7fa8d115 Over a thousand Israeli/Jewish scholars in both Isreal and the US. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/08/11/israel-palestine-apartheid-israel-scholars/ Staunch supporters of Isreal and Zionists. Four ex PM's David Ben Gurion Yitzhak Rabin Ehud Barak Ehud Olmert https://www.msnbc.com/opinion/saying-israel-guilty-apartheid-isn-t-antisemitic-just-ask-these-n1268785 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: I don't find anything about this never ending conflict amusing Alf. The suffering of both the Palestinians and the Isrealis cuts me to the core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 15 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Because people are allowed to have different opinions. People have all kinds of reasons and motivations. We've seen all three descriptions. It can't be all of them. My motivation is that everyone, everywhere, should have the same human rights that we enjoy in our country's. The right to raise their families in a safe environment, the right to food on the table, a good education, heath care, hope for a better future. What are your thoughts on the illegal Isreali settlements in the West Bank ? What are your thoughts on Jewish terrorism, to use the head of Shin Bets words, in the West Bank ? What are your thoughts on the IDF using Palestinians as Human shields ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Bill nails it . It’s about how we got to this point and how it continues. Some , never had a country to begin with. and a gift of land was allowed to be turned into a hornets nest for terrorizing by those it was gifted to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentSam Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RU SERIOUS Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 (edited) 29 minutes ago, SilentSam said: Religions don't do those things to people - CULTS do. Treating women like slaves and property is barbaric and from the 6th century & NOT in sync with "Normal people" and their values living in the western civilized world. There is no room for discussion on this issue! They should be ashamed! Enough said! Edited October 13 by RU SERIOUS typo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: Bill nails it . It’s about how we got to this point and how it continues. Some , never had a country to begin with. and a gift of land was allowed to be turned into a hornets nest for terrorizing by those it was gifted to. So, you state that some, I guess you are the talking about the Isreali/Jews never had a country to begin with ? Then you state that Bill Nails it. Bill actually states the Israeli/Jews have had a presence in Isreal/Palestine for thousands of years. So which is it ? They have never had a country ? Or they have been there for thousands of years ? Ever heard of a historical artifact called the Merneptah Stone ? This artifact offers earliest historical evidence of a people called Isreal. Have you ever heard of the Lehi, the Irgun and The Stern Gang ? These are Jewish terror groups that operated in Palestine/Isreal in the 1930's and 1940's. They not only terrorized the Arabs who live in Palestine, they also terrorised the Jewish population. Here is a copy of a Letter that Einstein and group of Prominent Jews wrote for the New York Times in 1948 https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/from-the-archives-fascism-and-terrorism-in-israel-einstein-and-others/ " During the last years of the sporadic anti British violence the IZL and Stern groups inaugurated a reign of terror in the Palestine Jewish community. Teachers were beaten up for speaking against them. Adults were shot for not letting their children join them. By gangster methods, beatings, window smashings and widespread robberies the terrorists intimidated the population and exacted a heavy tribute. " They terrorised their own people. You note how Einstein and his peers label them as Fascists ? Einstein would know right ? He lived in Germany and watched the rise of the Nazi party. You do know that leaders of these terror groups went on to become Prime Ministers of Isreal. Menachem Begin Yitzhak Shamir So tell me Sam, who started using terror attacks as a means to form their state in Palestine ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 hour ago, SilentSam said: shelo asani isha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 14 hours ago, Bob Long said: Just don't. You are 100% attempting to make Hamas and Hezbollah seem like normal groups. You aren't fooling anyone. As said earlier, when Hamas and Hezbollah are destroyed and Iran capped, the ME will have a chance to rebuild in a peaceful way. The UN can reform without being infiltrated by terrorists and actually start working for a peaceful solution. The thumb sucking countries, like Canada, who have supported the terrorists can actually put money into the ME that will improve lives. There is no equivalancy no matter how the pro Palestinian PR campaign tries to create one. Sharia law is medival. Most Arabs live in totalitarian countries ruled by religious nuts. In Canada we have a federal government that has spent the last year ignoring the plight of Jewish Canadians who are threatened and even attacked by pro Palestinian hoodlums. Last night a Jewish school for young children was shot up. This is happening in Canada. The same government that declared the Emergency Act to shut down a protest caravan to Ottawa sits idle as physical threats to Jews in Canada are normalized. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 27 minutes ago, Boudrias said: As said earlier, when Hamas and Hezbollah are destroyed and Iran capped, the ME will have a chance to rebuild in a peaceful way. The UN can reform without being infiltrated by terrorists and actually start working for a peaceful solution. The thumb sucking countries, like Canada, who have supported the terrorists can actually put money into the ME that will improve lives. There is no equivalancy no matter how the pro Palestinian PR campaign tries to create one. Sharia law is medival. Most Arabs live in totalitarian countries ruled by religious nuts. not sure thats a fair characterization. Canada has supported a 2 state solution for a long time. I do agree that there's too much tolerance on the left for what are clearly terrorist organizations. I do agree on the UN needing some major reforms. 27 minutes ago, Boudrias said: In Canada we have a federal government that has spent the last year ignoring the plight of Jewish Canadians who are threatened and even attacked by pro Palestinian hoodlums. Last night a Jewish school for young children was shot up. This is happening in Canada. The same government that declared the Emergency Act to shut down a protest caravan to Ottawa sits idle as physical threats to Jews in Canada are normalized. I'm not sure how conflating the response to the convoy weirdo's with Hamas is reasonable or helpful. This is what Trudeau actually says about this: https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2024/10/07/statement-prime-minister-mark-one-year-hamas-terrorist-attacks-against Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 13 hours ago, Ilunga said: My motivation is that everyone, everywhere, should have the same human rights that we enjoy in our country's. The right to raise their families in a safe environment, the right to food on the table, a good education, heath care, hope for a better future. What are your thoughts on the illegal Isreali settlements in the West Bank ? What are your thoughts on Jewish terrorism, to use the head of Shin Bets words, in the West Bank ? What are your thoughts on the IDF using Palestinians as Human shields ? my thoughts are those things are bad, but don't justify the attempt by Sinwar, Hezbollah or Iran to destabilize Israel and ultimately destroy it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 5 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said: The reporter talks about Hesbola guys fighting back. I wonder how many of those Hesbola guys fight back while hiding behind women, children, or the old? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 this is interesting: Approximately 100 US troops are deploying to Israel to operate the THAAD battery, according to a US defense official. It is rare for US troops to deploy inside Israel, but this is a typical number of troops to operate the anti-missile defense system. https://www.cnn.com/2024/10/13/politics/israel-iran-antimissile-system-us-troops/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 1 hour ago, Alflives said: The reporter talks about Hesbola guys fighting back. I wonder how many of those Hesbola guys fight back while hiding behind women, children, or the old? How many Palestinians fight inside Hamas and Hezbollah because they have no other way to feed themselves ot their families? Creating an economy in the ME that actually supports people will stabilize the region. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 UN forces should have been out of Lebanon a month ago. The IDF have given plenty of warning. I suspect that the UN and their contractors have Hezbollah agents working for them. As discovered in Gaza infiltrating aid groups is standard operating procedure for Hama ans Hezbollah. These two terrorist orgs have no problem using their own people as shields. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ilunga Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 7 hours ago, Boudrias said: As said earlier, when Hamas and Hezbollah are destroyed and Iran capped, the ME will have a chance to rebuild in a peaceful way. The UN can reform without being infiltrated by terrorists and actually start working for a peaceful solution. The thumb sucking countries, like Canada, who have supported the terrorists can actually put money into the ME that will improve lives. There is no equivalancy no matter how the pro Palestinian PR campaign tries to create one. Sharia law is medival. Most Arabs live in totalitarian countries ruled by religious nuts. In Canada we have a federal government that has spent the last year ignoring the plight of Jewish Canadians who are threatened and even attacked by pro Palestinian hoodlums. Last night a Jewish school for young children was shot up. This is happening in Canada. The same government that declared the Emergency Act to shut down a protest caravan to Ottawa sits idle as physical threats to Jews in Canada are normalized. Your federal authorities certainly certainly don't ignore Muslims in Canada. They spend your money " manufacturing " Islamic terrorists. https://theconversation.com/canadian-law-enforcement-agencies-continue-to-target-muslims-208444 " Project Souvenir " the RCMP's " terror organisation " Seriously this is some messed up shit. As for hate crimes https://theconversation.com/csis-targeting-of-canadian-muslims-reveals-the-importance-of-addressing-institutional-islamophobia-199559 . " In recent years, Canada has witnessed the highest number of Muslims killed in hate motivated attacks out of all the G7 countries " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted October 13 Share Posted October 13 2 minutes ago, Ilunga said: Your federal authorities certainly certainly don't ignore Muslims in Canada. They spend your money " manufacturing " Islamic terrorists. https://theconversation.com/canadian-law-enforcement-agencies-continue-to-target-muslims-208444 " Project Souvenir " the RCMP's " terror organisation " Seriously this is some messed up shit. As for hate crimes https://theconversation.com/csis-targeting-of-canadian-muslims-reveals-the-importance-of-addressing-institutional-islamophobia-199559 . " In recent years, Canada has witnessed the highest number of Muslims killed in hate motivated attacks out of all the G7 countries " Muslims murdering other Muslims. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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