Hamas attacking Israel

[Canuck Surfer]

So as much as Iran is THE threat?

 

Israel has two main direct conflicts.  The rest are splinter groups & string pullers. Houthis, Iran, etc.. Only one is endemic to their local (not global) existence; Hamas & the Palestinian cause.  Call them the same for the moment.  It is the overwhelming conflict that needs to be resolved! As even I have asked Israel to take a more progressive approach to autonomy for Palestinians.  The second conflict is with Hezbollah, massively generalized as a militant splinter group from the PLO; initiating as Palestinians who did not settle after 1948 as refugees in West Bank or Gaza.   

 

For the record, while having alliance, they are absolutely & completely independent of each other. Unfortunately both a threat to Israel? I'll deal with Hezbollah ideas later.

 

To me, for world support and their own sense of duty to ''people'' Israel needs to solve the Palestinian problem (in Gaza & the West Bank). The first conflict. But I am to tackle this now from the Palestinian perspective.  Well, from what Palestinians need to consider from my opinion to garner independence & autonomy?

 

Spoiler

Everything has, of course an Israeli quid pro quo! 

 

* My previous posts call for Israel to be the leader offering options for autonomy if Palestinians want Hamas to withdraw & disarm. 

* Including repealing land taken from Settlers & withdrawal at a loss where not legal.  Which is more the case than not?

* Like withdrawal from Gaza in 2006

* With help, not Israel exclusively 'managing' security.

 

This of course needs the arms free agreement of Palestinians they did not get in 2006.  Hamas took their gains & immediately attacked.

 

Call it religious, call it militant direction, ultimately this in my opinion! Then be willing to look at compromise.

 

Pre-dating 1948 those leading these Palestinians called for unabated Islamic rule over the entire region. My Muslim & Islamic friends from both Canada where I am from, Australia where I live? Have all been happy to live in a multicultural world. Accept and live with other cultures & religions. Read the Quran, believe it call for peace not Jihad!

 

* Palestinians need to disavow Jihad!

* Palestinians need to embrace multiculturalism & personal rights for all.

* Call for release of hostages & for those with arms to set them down** in agreement for a ceasefire.

** This is both tactical, as Israel has a massive military advantage,  yet more importantly fundamental.

 

There are some massive items Palestinians can offer Jewish people in a multi-cultural border.

* Allow open access to the West Wall and holy sites in Judea & Samaria.

* ABSOLUTELY similar rights for Christian and all other cultures, religions in a new Palestinian constitution.

 

Israel also has to consider these options; Palestinians need to live somewhere. It is much better in peace.  

[Ilunga]

32 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

The world is disappointed in Israel. 

 

Amongst reasons; reports that Israel is intentionally attacking UN peacekeepers.  Trust me, if this was true, they would be dead! In this case, Israel asked the UN to step aside. As the UN, perhaps not harbouring, but clearly either indifferent or ignorant to the massive weapons build up. Quote / Unquote, and factually in the UN safe zone where Hezbollah breached agreements. Launched thousands of attacks.  The world has also under reported the ten thousand plus attacks, many believing it is a unilateral escalation by Israel.  

 

So?

 

With the UN safe zone 1701 agreement in place; North of Israeli border 20KM (summarized). The UN was unsuccessful managing & monitoring this agreement extensively broken by Hezbollah. Why does Israel not have the right to clear the safe zone? 

 

 

 

 

I suppose you are right, after all they actually did kill the aid workers they targeted.

They actually did kill a record amount of journalists they targeted. 

 

 

The UNIFIL staff did terrible things like supplying computers for schools.

Building soccer fields.

UNIFIL has also destroyed 51,000 mines and unexploded bombs in southern Lebanon.

A very dangerous, thankless task.

While cowards sit behind their keyboards and put shit on them.

 

Tell me, how were UNIFIL meant to work with a failed state to neutralize Hezbollah ? 

 

Who cares that Israel breaks international law, and commits war/crimes against humanity. 

After all, the rules that apply to most other countries, don't apply to them.

 

And the world isn't just disappointed in them.

They are slowly losing support.

 

We can only hope that the US, at the very least, restricts military aid.

That they realise they could be considered as accessories to the war crimes the Israelis have committed, by giving them the weapons that Israel committed those war crimes with.

 

 

 

[Boudrias]

It appears that Israel has put their retaliation on Iran off until the POTUS election is done. Harris is worried about the pump price of gas prior to the vote. If Trump is elected Israel likely gets more latitude on Israeli strikes inside Iran. 

[Optimist Prime]

4 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I suppose you are right, after all they actually did kill the aid workers they targeted.

They actually did kill a record amount of journalists they targeted. 

I know you don't like to admit it, but we have all seen the proof that a UNRWA Doctor was holding one of the hostages in his house in GAZA.

Nearby was a precious member of the PRESS holding a Hostage in Gaza. 
I can put on a blue flak jacket with the letters P.R.E.S.S. too, and I can drive an ambulance for a  UN hospital. That doesn't mean I am not holding a hostage, or have filled the back of the ambulance up with rockets to deliver to a rooftop firing location. 

Israel must defend itself. To not do so would be the death of every Jewish person in Israel. 

it is terrible that innocents are caught up in it, but the blame lies squarely on Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran with help from the Houthi's. 
All of these entities must be defeated. The UN mandate in Lebanon is not to stand in the way of waring armies. Never has been. 

That they are refusing to evac from the very real warnings that the IDF has given them for me is a proof that UNIFIL has been compromised the way UNRWA is. I suspect that when all is said and done we will find that a high ranking decision maker in UNIFIL is Hezbollah sympathetic at the very least. 

Some of the recent decisions by UNIFIL commanders that put UN troops in harms way are incredibly suspect. 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 hours ago, Ilunga said:

I suppose you are right, after all they actually did kill the aid workers they targeted.

They actually did kill a record amount of journalists they targeted. 

 

 

* Palestinians need to disavow (islamic) Jihad, break from leadership such as Hamas that espouse Jihad!

* Palestinians need to embrace multiculturalism & personal rights for all.

 

Equally, Israel needs to make commitments that offer the returning of land, offering autonomy on a border committed to peace.

 

Since (before) 1948 Israel has had opposition committed to fighting, not accepting those two points.  

 

 

[Optimist Prime]

29 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

* Palestinians need to disavow (islamic) Jihad, break from leadership such as Hamas that espouse Jihad!

* Palestinians need to embrace multiculturalism & personal rights for all.

 

Equally, Israel needs to make commitments that offer the returning of land, offering autonomy on a border committed to peace.

 

Since (before) 1948 Israel has had opposition committed to fighting, not accepting those two points.  

 

 

I am uncertain that Israel needs to make commitments that offer returning of land. This is quite contentious. In every case of armed conflict across history and the globe, usually the victorious side holds land or assets from the losing side. 
In 15 of the 16 aggression circumstances involving Israel and the Palestinians, Israel did not start the war, or battle in smaller cases. The one they started was preemptive in nature and the losing coalition of muslim countries admit that if they were not hit first, they were days or hours away from a 'surprise' attack on Israel. 

We can and will argue back and forth about the chicken and the egg, however, the bottom line for me and for a lot of folks who are deciders in Israel itself is that they won the Golan from when Syria attacked them. They won the west bank from when Transjordan attacked them and they are perhaps going to say they won parts of Gaza from when Hamas attacked them. The syrian government, the Jordanian government and the government of Gaza in every case started the war Israel finished. 
I don't see any real historical or global evidence of giving land back to the aggressors after they are defeated. 

Maybe Israel will see a benefit to doing so, maybe it won't. 

What is the inevitable conclusion however of the 16 major conflicts in the region over almost 90 years is that Jihad against Israel doesn't pay. Palestinians do need to break from Jihadi groups and disavow them. TO that end, Israel really should consider being better for Palestinians than the Jihadi terror groups that currently lead their social and political ranks. Maybe that includes some land guarantees, maybe it doesn't. 

At present I see no benefit to Israel in allowing an independant and free Palestine Nation to exist. We all know that nation will be preoccupied with re-arming, and taking back more by force of arms than they would be getting in any peace deal. It would literally just set the stage for another war in 18 years time. 

 

be sure though: i am not opposed to a two state solution, in a lot of ways it could be beneficial for the region and the globe, however at this point in time I believe it is further away from being a reality than it was on Oct 6th of last year. 

[Canuck Surfer]

5 hours ago, grover said:

Context to these claims

 

People, myself certainly and also your passionate views look at context differently.

 

The predecessors to Hezbollah, a PLO wing in Jordan was actively pursuing Jihad to topple the Jordanian govt.. Roughly 25,000 Palestinians were killed during Black September in the early 70's to remove them from Jordan. The displaced arriving in Lebanon avowing control for their sect now in Lebanon widely 'credited' as the catalyst that became Hezbollah; there has been on and off factional war for control of Lebanon ever since. 

 

Dave talks about rule of law; you allude to it with the death of reporters & protesters. 

 

Rafic Hariri, elected Prime Minister of Lebanon was assassinated by Hezbollah in 2005. This is not an opponent who sticks to rule based law (either). 

 

This is not just Jewish people, of course its highlighted by their conflict right now, from Israel fighting Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been one of the largest factions seizing territories & ultimately propping up dictator al Assad's regime. For context; depending who you fact check from, between 240,000 and 350,000 civilians were killed in Syrian civil war. 500,000 overall? Backed by Iran who wants regional control. Iraqi civil war, 1/2 this? Iran, their backer, themselves attacked Iraq back in 1980, death tolls 500,000 soldiers & 750,000? Allied, Hezbollah not directly involved with Houthi war but Iran certainly; Another 150,000 civilians dead, urgent famine issues impacting millions & 100,000 to 150,000 deaths by starvation. But for specific context Hezbollah burned down countless Syrian villages, men, women, old young, no different, was sided with those who flattened the Syrian city of Aleppo just as thoroughly as Gaza by Israel now, yet with a massively five fold higher attrition by death.

 

Approximately 150,000 have died in Lebanese civil war to which Hezbollah has been the most prominent combatant. That exceeds all death in Palestinian wars against Israel. For context, depending who fact checks, between 8000 & 22,000 have died in battles where Israel has been involved directly in Lebanon.

 

For context, as much as I see a villain & crime in Israel; no I do not see Israel as remotely close to the most violent or largest aggressor.  

 

War against Israel has not been the region's biggest issue.

 

Spoiler

So sides other than, as well as Israel, have to come to the table to solve problems. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

41 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

At present I see no benefit to Israel in allowing an independant and free Palestine Nation to exist

 

It would be a process, I admit?

 

I also believe, posted before, that if you look at the conflict in a five year, even twenty year lense?  Prospects for peace look worse in almost all cases. But this is an 80 year old conflict. At key points Israel can be accused of backing more than one side insurrection so legitimate Palestinian leadership never emerged. Israel has kinda liked just keeping them always weak enough to be controlled?   

 

The West Bank, over 60 years now an asset security zone?  It would be a massive political task to get their voters to give back. 

 

My position, preface if you will, is Israel has to be seen as offering peace for acceptance in world view. It might, still, take, 25 years?  But the worlds politics have changed faster in the last 5 years? Than anytime since WWII. Even in the cold war there was distinct sides. Which have not completely dissipated...

 

One hundred million plus have protested against Israel.  It does not have to be Trump, but any change in world order could easily see what Sinwar hoped for Oct 7. Putin Feb 24, 2022. That others would pile in to the war supporting the Palestinian Hamas cause. Regardless of how ugly you and I think of popular support for insurgency. In a 200 year lense, when has a country the size of Israel ever been able to maintain itself exclusively on military dominance? Skip Trump, the rise of Brix, China, possibly India are going to be considerations. If historic trends are normal the US also probably has 50 to 80 years left as the worlds dominant power?  

 

My key point is, if so much of the world see's Israel as the evil Axis? It will become vulnerable status quo. Offer an unconditional arms down surrender? Trumpet a rebuilt Germany & Japan? Make it public! Pursue normalization with more Arabic countries. The UAE, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, S,A.. Who in this world order? Still want the US as counter balance to Iran. An inclusion in world order even when oil starts becomes a non factor. Right now the US is oil sufficient, but the ME still needs the US? It may not be a two state solution in any immediate context. Frick, the actual peace keeping force would need some of those countries, the US and Palestinians to secure against a re-evolution of Hamas. Hamas is the weakest they have been in over 20 years! Palestinians should see there could be life without Hamas!  

 

If being offered, would Sinwar agree? I don't think so. But then those idealistic students at Princeton, etc., can start weighing whether they want to support more Oct 7ths.  

[Canuck Surfer]

To me its a geo political battle!

 

Where (western economies) gaining side with much of the ME currently looks more likely than with China. Which can be used to help all their countries progress to peace, better standards of human rights, standard of living. 

 

I could not tell you what exactly the borders would look like...

[Ilunga]

5 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I know you don't like to admit it, but we have all seen the proof that a UNRWA Doctor was holding one of the hostages in his house in GAZA.

Nearby was a precious member of the PRESS holding a Hostage in Gaza. 
I can put on a blue flak jacket with the letters P.R.E.S.S. too, and I can drive an ambulance for a  UN hospital. That doesn't mean I am not holding a hostage, or have filled the back of the ambulance up with rockets to deliver to a rooftop firing location. 

Israel must defend itself. To not do so would be the death of every Jewish person in Israel. 

it is terrible that innocents are caught up in it, but the blame lies squarely on Hamas, Hezbollah and Iran with help from the Houthi's. 
All of these entities must be defeated. The UN mandate in Lebanon is not to stand in the way of waring armies. Never has been. 

That they are refusing to evac from the very real warnings that the IDF has given them for me is a proof that UNIFIL has been compromised the way UNRWA is. I suspect that when all is said and done we will find that a high ranking decision maker in UNIFIL is Hezbollah sympathetic at the very least. 

Some of the recent decisions by UNIFIL commanders that put UN troops in harms way are incredibly suspect. 

 

Haven't even commented on the doctor, so how I can you say I don't like to to admit he was holding a hostage. 

The hostage was in his house, ergo he was holding a hostage.

 

 

So Zomi Frankcom and her fellow aid workers  were holding hostages, or carrying messages ?

Do you know how ridiculous that sounds ?

Isreal targeted and murdered an Australian citizen, amongst others, including a Canadian. One that had dedicated her life to helping others.

One that had the courage to go into a war zone to help others. 

 

Why doesn't Isreal let foreign journalists into Gaza ?

Firstly so they can't report on the war crimes the IDF are committing.

And secondly,  so they can make claims like yours, that the journalists that are there are suspect.

 

Here is a great article about Israeli press censorship.

 

https://theconversation.com/how-israel-continues-to-censor-journalists-covering-the-war-in-gaza-228241

 

The only democracy in the middle east.... right ?

 

Hamas', Hezbollah and the Houthis didn't target and murder aid workers and Journalists, Isreal did. 

That's what History will record. 

 

You have stated you support a world based rules order.

Under those rules armed forces don't kill journalists and aid workers. 

 

So you believe that nations have the right to bully the UN into doing what they want them to ?

Or does this just apply to Israel ?

Like so many of the double standards in this thread. 

 

And seriously, the death of every person in Isreal.

We both know that the US will never let that happen. 

There is an infinitely greater chance that there will be the death of every Palestinian in Gaza in the current situation. 

 

As I have stated, Isreal is slowly losing support across.

It's good to see there are people in the Canadian government, the government that you work for, that have a conscience, and have condemned Isreals attacks on the UN peacekeepers, and infrastructure in Gaza, today.

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/americas/canada-condemns-israeli-attacks-gaza-infrastructure-un-peacekeepers-2024-10-16/

 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

 

* Palestinians need to disavow (islamic) Jihad, break from leadership such as Hamas that espouse Jihad!

* Palestinians need to embrace multiculturalism & personal rights for all.

 

Equally, Israel needs to make commitments that offer the returning of land, offering autonomy on a border committed to peace.

 

Since (before) 1948 Israel has had opposition committed to fighting, not accepting those two points.  

 

 

 

I agree with all those things.

 

What do they have to do with the post of mine you have quoted ?

 

[Canuck Surfer]

6 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

I agree with all those things.

 

What do they have to do with the post of mine you have quoted ?

 

 

At some point, this conflict does have 80 years of history?

 

Those are the things things have to be discussed. I am not a fan of theory that law will stop Israel from what it is doing. Law has not stopped Islamic Jihad either; whom I believe are more egregious. Perhaps you disagree, many do. Has not stopped either party. 

Spoiler

In spoiler just not to take up space as its requoting myself;

 

 

 

[Ilunga]

Just now, Canuck Surfer said:

 

At some point, this conflict does have 80 years of history?

 

Those are the things things have to be discussed. I am not a fan of theory that law will stop Israel from what it is doing. Law has not stopped Islamic Jihad either; whom I believe are more egregious. Perhaps you disagree, many do. Has not stopped either party. 

  Hide contents

In spoiler just not to take up space as its requoting myself;

 

 

 

 

Don't know how many the times I have to say this, I am against all violence.

Be it Palestinian violence, Isreali violence, Australian violence. 

 

It is acts of violence that fuel this never ending conflict. 

 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

I am uncertain that Israel needs to make commitments that offer returning of land. This is quite contentious. In every case of armed conflict across history and the globe, usually the victorious side holds land or assets from the losing side. 
In 15 of the 16 aggression circumstances involving Israel and the Palestinians, Israel did not start the war, or battle in smaller cases. The one they started was preemptive in nature and the losing coalition of muslim countries admit that if they were not hit first, they were days or hours away from a 'surprise' attack on Israel. 

We can and will argue back and forth about the chicken and the egg, however, the bottom line for me and for a lot of folks who are deciders in Israel itself is that they won the Golan from when Syria attacked them. They won the west bank from when Transjordan attacked them and they are perhaps going to say they won parts of Gaza from when Hamas attacked them. The syrian government, the Jordanian government and the government of Gaza in every case started the war Israel finished. 
I don't see any real historical or global evidence of giving land back to the aggressors after they are defeated. 

Maybe Israel will see a benefit to doing so, maybe it won't. 

What is the inevitable conclusion however of the 16 major conflicts in the region over almost 90 years is that Jihad against Israel doesn't pay. Palestinians do need to break from Jihadi groups and disavow them. TO that end, Israel really should consider being better for Palestinians than the Jihadi terror groups that currently lead their social and political ranks. Maybe that includes some land guarantees, maybe it doesn't. 

At present I see no benefit to Israel in allowing an independant and free Palestine Nation to exist. We all know that nation will be preoccupied with re-arming, and taking back more by force of arms than they would be getting in any peace deal. It would literally just set the stage for another war in 18 years time. 

 

be sure though: i am not opposed to a two state solution, in a lot of ways it could be beneficial for the region and the globe, however at this point in time I believe it is further away from being a reality than it was on Oct 6th of last year. 

 

The rest of the world, including your government is very certain.

Israels occupation of the West Bank is illegal under international law.

The rules based world order you say you support. 

[Ilunga]

4 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

People, myself certainly and also your passionate views look at context differently.

 

The predecessors to Hezbollah, a PLO wing in Jordan was actively pursuing Jihad to topple the Jordanian govt.. Roughly 25,000 Palestinians were killed during Black September in the early 70's to remove them from Jordan. The displaced arriving in Lebanon avowing control for their sect now in Lebanon widely 'credited' as the catalyst that became Hezbollah; there has been on and off factional war for control of Lebanon ever since. 

 

Dave talks about rule of law; you allude to it with the death of reporters & protesters. 

 

Rafic Hariri, elected Prime Minister of Lebanon was assassinated by Hezbollah in 2005. This is not an opponent who sticks to rule based law (either). 

 

This is not just Jewish people, of course its highlighted by their conflict right now, from Israel fighting Hezbollah. Hezbollah has been one of the largest factions seizing territories & ultimately propping up dictator al Assad's regime. For context; depending who you fact check from, between 240,000 and 350,000 civilians were killed in Syrian civil war. 500,000 overall? Backed by Iran who wants regional control. Iraqi civil war, 1/2 this? Iran, their backer, themselves attacked Iraq back in 1980, death tolls 500,000 soldiers & 750,000? Allied, Hezbollah not directly involved with Houthi war but Iran certainly; Another 150,000 civilians dead, urgent famine issues impacting millions & 100,000 to 150,000 deaths by starvation. But for specific context Hezbollah burned down countless Syrian villages, men, women, old young, no different, was sided with those who flattened the Syrian city of Aleppo just as thoroughly as Gaza by Israel now, yet with a massively five fold higher attrition by death.

 

Approximately 150,000 have died in Lebanese civil war to which Hezbollah has been the most prominent combatant. That exceeds all death in Palestinian wars against Israel. For context, depending who fact checks, between 8000 & 22,000 have died in battles where Israel has been involved directly in Lebanon.

 

For context, as much as I see a villain & crime in Israel; no I do not see Israel as remotely close to the most violent or largest aggressor.  

 

War against Israel has not been the region's biggest issue.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

So sides other than, as well as Israel, have to come to the table to solve problems. 

 

 

This posts reeks of whataboutism. 

What about Assad, what about Syria.

What about Iran.

 

You bet I talk about the rule of law, it should be applied to everyone, equally.

The crimes of Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria or others, don't justify the crimes committed by Israel.

Anyone who commits war crimes/crimes against humanity should be condemned. 

And they should held accountable for their actions.

 

How many times does it have to be said, Hamas and Hezbollah are the bad guys.

They do bad shit.

Not only do people in this thread call them out, they justify war crimes committed by Isreal, the supposed good guys, attributing Hamas' and Hezbollah for Isreals war crimes. 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

10 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

This posts reeks of whataboutism.

 

I look at as realism versus idealism. Idealism ie as in everyone obey the law. War by default is breaking the law in one way or another.

 

Countries with no grip over their militants, or ruled by militants sometimes led by corrupt billionaires are killing way more people than Israel. Way more. In my opinion are the single biggest root factor to conflict with Israel. Example; If they contribute to 350,000 civilian deaths in Syria? 

 

Why should Hezbollah be trusted with the rule of law in Southern Lebanon. Where they ignore UN resolutions and democratic process as a whole for Lebanon.

 

The alternative is to sit and wait for all those illegal positions in the UN safe zone to NOT attack Israel? So Israel can conform to law...

 

Check your definition of whataboutism.

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

There is normalization on the table for Israel.  I recommend they take it, navigate the war and negotiations more carefully offering alternatives for Palestinians. 

 

I don't recommend Israel let Hezbollah shoot at them.

 

[Canuck Surfer]

So Hezbollah currently want, quote / unquote, a ceasefire. 

 

What are they willing to put up as compromise so Israel has reason to take them up on it?

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I look at as realism versus idealism. Idealism ie as in everyone obey the law. War by default is breaking the law in one way or another.

 

Countries with no grip over their militants, or ruled by militants sometimes led by corrupt billionaires are killing way more people than Israel. Way more. In my opinion are the single biggest root factor to conflict with Israel. Example; If they contribute to 350,000 civilian deaths in Syria? 

 

Why should Hezbollah be trusted with the rule of law in Southern Lebanon. Where they ignore UN resolutions and democratic process as a whole for Lebanon.

 

The alternative is to sit and wait for all those illegal positions in the UN safe zone to NOT attack Israel? So Israel can conform to law...

 

Check your definition of whataboutism.

 

 

 

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

 

There is normalization on the table for Israel.  I recommend they take it, navigate the war and negotiations more carefully offering alternatives for Palestinians. 

 

I don't recommend Israel let Hezbollah shoot at them.

 

 

Whataboutism

 

" The act or practice of responding to an accusation of a wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse "

 

This is the exactly what you have done, and are doing in the post above.  

 

Again, what has any of the above have to do with the war crimes that Isreal has committed in Gaza ? 

These are the war crimes I have been talking about. 

As far as I, and the rest of the world know currently, apart from attacking UNIFIL forces, which nearly every nation has condemned, Israel has not committed war crimes in southern Lebanon. 

 

And no, not all forms of war are breaking the laws of war. 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

10 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Whataboutism

 

" The act or practice of responding to an accusation of a wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse "

 

This is the exactly what you have done, and are doing in the post above.  

 

Again, what has any of the above have to do with the war crimes that Isreal has committed in Gaza ? 

These are the war crimes I have been talking about. 

As far as I, and the rest of the world know currently, apart from attacking UNIFIL forces, which nearly every nation has condemned, Israel has not committed war crimes in southern Lebanon. 

 

And no, not all forms of war are breaking the laws of war. 

 

 

As I said; your are absolutely entitled to your own interpretations of bias! Including of mine.  

 

At least you did not have to quote that stupid fact checker.  I looked into it by the way?  Its run, BTW, by a private Evangelical University in the US. Run and moderated, the site & university, by a former Dean of Law PHD from Northwestern University. Credentials ok?  His claim to fame is book studies for his thesis on cults. I am surprised (sarcasm) there is no comparison to cults editorialized about Hamas? They claim neutrality by ''not monitoring adverts to support the site, any are allowed to advertise ensure no bias!'' Yet the work is predominantly done by students and profs at the Uni.   

 

Not that you bestow all the attributes asked of Evangelicals?  (I'm kidding!) I find it completely unsurprising they view facts, as seen by University campuses in the US who protest against Israel, in much the same vein as yourself. 

[Canuck Surfer]

24 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

" The act or practice of responding to an accusation of a wrongdoing by claiming that an offense committed by another is similar or worse "

 

Again, what you call whataboutism; I call realism.  Hezbollah is absolutely a 50, really 80 year, contributor to this conflict. 10,000 missiles cannot be wrong!

 

Calling for Israel to be reigned to legal standards has merit only in parallel with those for Hezbollah.  

 

As there is no faculty for holding either accountable? Hence we are at war.

 

Solutions are to call for concessions by both sides. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[Ilunga]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

As I said; your are absolutely entitled to your own interpretations of bias! Including of mine.  

 

At least you did not have to quote that stupid fact checker.  I looked into it by the way?  Its run, BTW, by a private Evangelical University in the US. Run and moderated, the site & university, by a former Dean of Law PHD from Northwestern University. Credentials ok?  His claim to fame is book studies for his thesis on cults. I am surprised (sarcasm) there is no comparison to cults editorialized about Hamas? They claim neutrality by ''not monitoring adverts to support the site, any are allowed to advertise ensure no bias!'' Yet the work is predominantly done by students and profs at the Uni.   

 

Not that you bestow all the attributes asked of Evangelicals?  (I'm kidding!) I find it completely unsurprising they view facts, as seen by University campuses in the US who protest against Israel, in much the same vein as yourself. 

 

Where did I state you are biased ?

I have actually stated you are one of the more unbiased posters in this thread. 

 

Whataboutism isn't being biased, its the description I gave. 

And you do this a lot.

Bringing up the actions of others in the middle east up when I state that Israel has committed war crimes.

 

 

A sign of the times, people not liking fact checkers on the internet. 

 

I know that exactly who FOUNDED media bias.

Trying to disparage/discredit a persons business due to their beliefs ?

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_E._Van_Zandt

 

And what's this BS about cults ?

Books about 

Selected works 

The Breadth of Life in the Law 

 

An Alternative Theory in the practical reason in judicial decisions.

 

Common reasoning, social change and the law 

 

Neutralising the regulatory burden.

The use of equity securities by foreign corporate acquirers 

 

These aren't books about cults, these are books about law and business.

Which is what he is considered an expert in, the law and business.

 

 

The work is carried out students and profs at the Uni ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Bias/Fact_Check

 

Do you note that the actual fact checking is carried out by by independent reviewers, with the International Fact Checking Network.

 

Do you also note that scientific studies using its ratings note that ratings from Media Bias fact show with an independent fact checking data set from 2017, with Newsguard and BuzzFeed journalists.

It then goes on to detail more of their credibility as a fact checking organisation. 

 

Here is just one article, Penn state, stating media bias is a non partisan organisation.

They also recommend using them, or a tool like them to check the credibility of the source you get your information from.

 

https://newsliteracy.psu.edu/news/mediabiasfactcheck-com-as-a-tool-for-lateral-reading

 

 

Please don't associate me with the student protesters.

While I respect the right of anyone to peacefully protest, be it for the Palestinians or the Israeli, I have not and will not participate in those protests. 

 

And if you really know how the evangelicals in America feel about Isreal, you would know that we share nothing in common.

They are in full support of Isreal.